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Post by lucyg on Jun 7, 2019 3:22:12 GMT
I have the same conundrum when it comes to states rights & home rule. I have always been in favor of ‘home rule’ per se because the citizens of that area know how they want to govern themselves. For example stricter emissions laws in California, I firmly believe California has every right to have strict emissions laws, I was there in the 80’s I know what they are battling against. The EPA has no business telling Ca they have to loosen their emissions laws. My DD brought up slavery & I’m like of course not that’s against overall human decency, you can’t have slavery. Then she brought up abortion laws currently in state legislatures around the country, should they be allowed to decide how they want to govern themselves? & I’m like hmmm good point. I don’t know where I stand on anything anymore I guess Mentally ill people do not always have the capacity to make a choice. BUT where is that line. I don’t know I just don’t know. It’s GOT to be more than one relative getting someone sent away to a mental institution though. That’s too risky. I can imagine my Ex having me committed would have been cheaper than divorce. Definitely a fine line to walk. Although I think terrorizing strangers at the grocery store wether or not they have the opportunity to cause harm should be something that should be addressed So it isn't exactly the same thing, but in MN you used to be able to be committed if you are a danger to yourself or others. The process started with a 72 hour hold (involuntary, usually), often initiated by family members. There were court hearings and expert witnesses. Once the hold was up, then there would be additional hearings to commit the patient for up to 6 months. I suspect the California version will do something similar. There will be hearings, which will take time, and the issue of where to hold/house people. MN used to have multiple state hospital facilities. I don't think they are used anymore, but I don't know for sure. It shouldn't be a case of an angry ex being able to haul someone to court and have them involuntarily treated or held. The process should protect the patient while balancing the danger - like the scary person who chased inkedup to her car and threw the water bottle. We do have a 5150 law here in California. People can be committed against their will for 72 hours. They must be talking about something more extensive in SF. Or maybe they’re just talking about making more use of the 5150 law? I haven’t read the story yet.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 7, 2019 4:01:39 GMT
A senior State Department official left the Trump administration after helping develop a plan that steered billions of dollars to the defense firm he once lobbied for, according to The Wall Street Journal. Charles Faulkner, a former lobbyist for Raytheon Co., was part of a move by the Trump administration to bypass congressional review and fast-track $8 billion in arms sales to the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, according to the WSJ, citing current and former U.S. officials. Faulkner left his post as deputy assistant secretary at the State Department after playing a role in efforts leading to the emergency declaration, according to the newspaper. The declaration led to concerns in Congress about whether Faulkner had violated ethics rules by contributing to the declaration, which allowed Raytheon to sell $2 billion of precision-guided missiles to the UAE and Saudi Arabia, according to the WSJ. The House Foreign Affairs Committee plans to hold a hearing next Wednesday regarding the emergency declaration, with Faulkner’s part in it expected to come up in the questioning. ** thehill.com/policy/international/middle-east-north-africa/447208-state-dept-official-ousted-after-assisting-armsdt has his people embedded in the whole government. Some of them may be there forever.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 5:08:41 GMT
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Post by pierkiss on Jun 7, 2019 11:12:00 GMT
pierkiss, I do get where you are coming from and I’m having a lot of the same kind of thoughts about slippery slopes and who makes the determination as to who can’t make their own decisions because they are temporarily basically mentally incompetent and how to avoid people taking advantage of that for nefarious reasons. But I think we need to remember many of these people aren’t in their right minds. And I’m not even saying “crazy.” There have absolutely been times when I wasn’t really cognizant of my situation, how bad things were, the true reality of how bad things were. And I didn’t/couldn’t realize that until I was medicated. I have bipolar disorder, and mine isn’t even that severe. I don’t suffer from delusions and I have only had one mental break. From what I understand a large portion of the homeless with mental disorders are pretty severe. These aren’t people with occasional bouts of anxiety or “just” narcissists. So an all out lock everyone up treatment plan isn’t the way to go, but I can see the benefit of people being treated and helped to recover to the point of taking back their lives. I think the conversion therapy argument is a false equivalence. Well, maybe not with this administration, but I don’t think we can base much on that. They have shown holes in our system of checks and balances that MUST be changed for much of our government to work. But in general, one is the treatment of a mental illness/disease, and would involve people professionals making health decisions for someone who is not mentally capable of doing so at the time. The other is trying to change an immutable characteristic of someone else because it doesn’t fit your religious views. I get what you are saying. I just don’t think I can get on board with this being ok. I would rather make treatment an option that is free/affordable to them if they want it. Not everyone who is homeless wants to be “cured”. And even if they do this, I am seriously concerned about their quality of life once they get out. Because they then be responsible for themselves again. They will need to find away to afford those meds that they are now on (assuming that they choose to continue them, which I think is doubtful). Is this treatment also going to come with life skills lessons? A home off the streets to live in after treatment? Job skills training? A job to sustain their new way of life? Are all of these things going to be given for free to the people who are selected for treatment? If so, there are issues with that as well. While my gay conversion therapy example is an exaggerated example, for sure. But I used it to illustrate a point. If this goes forward, this will be the path that we head down. Wherethe government can decide that you need treatment of some kind, and make it so. Without consent or choice on behalf of the people. A more realistic example using medicine and diseases-Christian scientists and their refusal to treat various ailments. With this passing, politicians could mandate that they must use medicine to treat their children with cancer. Having that choice is no longer an option for them. While it’s not a decision I would make, it is a personal decision that one should be able to make for themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 13:53:00 GMT
trump...
”John Solomon: Factual errors and major omissions in the Mueller Report show that it is totally biased against Trump.”
“Mueller’s report was pure, political garbage!” @seanhannity”
So this is the tactic trump is going to take. I guess he finally zeroed in on what the report actually said about obstruction.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jun 7, 2019 14:28:22 GMT
I get what you are saying. I just don’t think I can get on board with this being ok. I would rather make treatment an option that is free/affordable to them if they want it. Not everyone who is homeless wants to be “cured”. And even if they do this, I am seriously concerned about their quality of life once they get out. Because they then be responsible for themselves again. They will need to find away to afford those meds that they are now on (assuming that they choose to continue them, which I think is doubtful). Is this treatment also going to come with life skills lessons? A home off the streets to live in after treatment? Job skills training? A job to sustain their new way of life? Are all of these things going to be given for free to the people who are selected for treatment? If so, there are issues with that as well. While my gay conversion therapy example is an exaggerated example, for sure. But I used it to illustrate a point. If this goes forward, this will be the path that we head down. Wherethe government can decide that you need treatment of some kind, and make it so. Without consent or choice on behalf of the people. A more realistic example using medicine and diseases-Christian scientists and their refusal to treat various ailments. With this passing, politicians could mandate that they must use medicine to treat their children with cancer. Having that choice is no longer an option for them. While it’s not a decision I would make, it is a personal decision that one should be able to make for themselves. But the thing is, homelessness is such a multifaceted issue and only “curing” one aspect of it really won’t work. We need to look at the underlying reasons why someone might choose that lifestyle over something safer and more humane. One reason why some homeless people don’t voluntarily get help is because they know that by doing so they are going to completely lose their whole community of friends who still live on the streets. Say one person goes and gets some treatment and help somehow and is set up in a transitional apartment, etc. But that place also comes with a bunch of strict rules such as the new resident has to stay on their prescribed meds, go to therapy, stay off illegal drugs and alcohol, etc. Everything goes great for a while, the person gets somewhat cleaned up and is working the program but they are LONELY. Longtime drug use or mental illness has burned their family bridges long ago and the trust is gone that the person will stay cleaned up. They have been completely extracted from their former homeless community on the street, and at some point they might think it would be fun to have some of their old friends come check out their great new place. Except the old friends still use, the old friends might have untreated mental illness or PTSD and they freak out or get violent, etc. Next thing you know, new resident is back out on the street for breaking the rules in their new place and finds themself falling right back into all those same old familiar people, routines and patterns that got them in trouble in the first place. I think any help needs to be more global in scope. Whether we like it or not, these folks form their own communities and extracting them individually just leaves people feeling alone and isolated. So they would rather be homeless but not alone than living in a secure place and lonely. It sets people up to fail.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 17:40:26 GMT
The world according to trump this morning.
“China is subsidizing its product in order that it can continue to be sold in the USA. Many firms are leaving China for other countries, including the United States, in order to avoid paying the Tariffs. No visible increase in costs or inflation, but U.S. is taking in Billions!”
“Nervous Nancy Pelosi is a disgrace to herself and her family for having made such a disgusting statement, especially since I was with foreign leaders overseas. There is no evidence for such a thing to have been said. Nervous Nancy & Dems are getting Zero work done in Congress....”
”and have no intention of doing anything other than going on a fishing expedition to see if they can find anything on me - both illegal & unprecedented in U.S. history. There was no Collusion - Investigate the Investigators! Go to work on Drug Price Reductions & Infrastructure!”
“If we are able to make the deal with Mexico, & there is a good chance that we will, they will begin purchasing Farm & Agricultural products at very high levels, starting immediately. If we are unable to make the deal, Mexico will begin paying Tariffs at the 5% level on Monday!”
“Democrats are incapable of doing a good and solid Immigration Bill!”
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Post by gardengoddess on Jun 7, 2019 18:24:35 GMT
Has this thread addressed what Trump said about Nancy yesterday on foreign soil? It slays me when I see Trump Davidians on social media whining about name calling when the very person they support does it on a regular basis. I don't get it. I figure it's fair play since they love it from him and I refuse to be held to a higher standard than the POTUS.
I also seem to remember the conservative losing their shit about The Dixie Chicks a decade ago for this:
"Just so you know, we're on the good side with y'all. We do not want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas."
And their defense against attacking Natalie Maines and her family is that she said it on foreign soil
Seems rather tame compared to what and who Trump attacks on a regular basis. It has GOT to suck trying to defend your vote and this guy.
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Post by hop2 on Jun 7, 2019 18:30:18 GMT
Has this thread addressed what Trump said about Nancy yesterday on foreign soil? It slays me when I see Trump Davidians on social media whining about name calling when the very person they support does it on a regular basis. I don't get it. I figure it's fair play since they love it from him and I refuse to be held to a higher standard than the POTUS. I also seem to remember the conservative losing their shit about The Dixie Chicks a decade ago for this: "Just so you know, we're on the good side with y'all. We do not want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas." And their defense against attacking Natalie Maines and her family is that she said it on foreign soil Seems rather tame compared to what and who Trump attacks on a regular basis. It has GOT to suck trying to defend your vote and this guy. Nope It doesn’t seem to suck at all, they either prefer this for real and are happy with it OR are delusional enough to believe Trump when he says he did not say/do whatever is at issue.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 18:34:09 GMT
When it comes to trump supporters I believe a lot practice “deliberate ignorance”.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 19:57:17 GMT
CNBC...
”Nonfarm payrolls for May increased up by just 75,000, the Labor Department says.
Economists surveyed by Dow Jones expected a gain of 180,000.
March’s job count was revised lower from 189,000 to 153,000 and the April number was lowered to 224,000 from 263,000, for a total reduction of 75,000.
The unemployment rate remained at a 50-year low of 3.6%.
Average hourly earnings year over year in May were up 3.1%, one-tenth of a point lower than expectations.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 22:32:05 GMT
Matthew Miller...,
“So this week Trump continued his feud with a dead man, picked a new one with Bette Midler, attacked a royal family member, said Ireland should build a wall on its border with N. Ireland, that he didn't serve in Vietnam b/c it was far away, & the moon was part of Mars. Cool cool.”.
That sounds about right.
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Post by lucyg on Jun 7, 2019 23:51:45 GMT
Matthew Miller..., “So this week Trump continued his feud with a dead man, picked a new one with Bette Midler, attacked a royal family member, said Ireland should build a wall on its border with N. Ireland, that he didn't serve in Vietnam b/c it was far away, & the moon was part of Mars. Cool cool.”. That sounds about right. But no. WE are the crazy ones here. There’s absolutely no reason to think he’s unfit for office.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2019 0:34:28 GMT
Matthew Miller..., “So this week Trump continued his feud with a dead man, picked a new one with Bette Midler, attacked a royal family member, said Ireland should build a wall on its border with N. Ireland, that he didn't serve in Vietnam b/c it was far away, & the moon was part of Mars. Cool cool.”. That sounds about right. and his supporters are using this photo on twitter to show Trumps support in the UK when in fact it's a photo of the victory parade held in Liverpool to welcome Liverpool soccer club home after winning the champions league cup. LINK
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Post by Merge on Jun 8, 2019 0:46:25 GMT
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 8, 2019 1:07:01 GMT
Oh joy, what's this?!?!?!
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Post by dewryce on Jun 8, 2019 1:10:28 GMT
I am all for finding ways to stem the tide of illegal immigration. But with Mexico talking about stopping people at their southern border my initial reaction is...we are just stopping those who need asylum from seeking it.
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Post by Merge on Jun 8, 2019 1:15:44 GMT
I am all for finding ways to stem the tide of illegal immigration. But with Mexico talking about stopping people at their southern border my initial reaction is...we are just stopping those who need asylum from seeking it. I am skeptical at best that Mexico can or even intends to do anything. I think the "agreement" is just a way for Trump to concede, without losing face, that tariffs that are unpopular even with his own party were a non-starter to begin with.
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Post by dewryce on Jun 8, 2019 1:17:49 GMT
I am all for finding ways to stem the tide of illegal immigration. But with Mexico talking about stopping people at their southern border my initial reaction is...we are just stopping those who need asylum from seeking it. I am skeptical at best that Mexico can or even intends to do anything. I think the "agreement" is just a way for Trump to concede, without losing face, that tariffs that are unpopular even with his own party were a non-starter to begin with. I know you’re right about Trump saving face, I hope you’re right about Mexico.
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Post by dewryce on Jun 8, 2019 1:21:13 GMT
Matthew Miller..., “So this week Trump continued his feud with a dead man, picked a new one with Bette Midler, attacked a royal family member, said Ireland should build a wall on its border with N. Ireland, that he didn't serve in Vietnam b/c it was far away, & the moon was part of Mars. Cool cool.”. That sounds about right. and his supporters are using this photo on twitter to show Trumps support in the UK when in fact it's a photo of the victory parade held in Liverpool to welcome Liverpool soccer club home after winning the champions league cup. LINKWho in their right minds think Trump would draw that big a crowd in London?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2019 2:00:58 GMT
and his supporters are using this photo on twitter to show Trumps support in the UK when in fact it's a photo of the victory parade held in Liverpool to welcome Liverpool soccer club home after winning the champions league cup. LINKWho in their right minds think Trump would draw that big a crowd in London? trump.
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Post by Merge on Jun 8, 2019 3:12:20 GMT
And here it is, the amazingly vague, one-page "deal" that is going to solve illegal immigration and stem the tide of asylum seekers! 🙄
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Post by dewryce on Jun 8, 2019 3:28:22 GMT
Very vague with no measurable intermediate goals.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2019 4:55:11 GMT
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wellway
Prolific Pea
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Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Jun 8, 2019 6:34:30 GMT
Matthew Miller..., “So this week Trump continued his feud with a dead man, picked a new one with Bette Midler, attacked a royal family member, said Ireland should build a wall on its border with N. Ireland, that he didn't serve in Vietnam b/c it was far away, & the moon was part of Mars. Cool cool.”. That sounds about right. and his supporters are using this photo on twitter to show Trumps support in the UK when in fact it's a photo of the victory parade held in Liverpool to welcome Liverpool soccer club home after winning the champions league cup. LINKThanks for posting this, my friend had mentioned it but a cursory search had not led me to it. Peas, if you have relatives believing that these are Trump supporters please ask them to Google The Liver Building, it's in Liverpool, the crowd is dressed in red, Liverpool FC 's colour. They had just won the Champions League Final the day before in Madrid. The parade was held on Sunday the 2nd of June before Trump was even in the country. More photos and video including one of the waterfront when the parade arrived there www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-48472068
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2019 9:03:08 GMT
Very vague with no measurable intermediate goals. There's a video in this BBC report that shows what Mexico is already doing before this " agreement" was signed. They seem to be actively doing as much as they can already and have been for some time. Extra National Guards posted at their borders isn't much of an advancement except in Trumps mind.
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Post by Merge on Jun 8, 2019 12:42:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2019 13:17:27 GMT
link
If trump wants money for the damn wall then he can start by cutting out this crap. What trump is doing is using tax payer dollars to make “commercials” advertising his businesses. So by advertising his foreign businesses, how does that help the little guy in the mid west? Or how does any of this #MAGA?From Huffington Post.. “Trump’s $3.6 Million Ireland Detour Brings Taxpayer-Funded Golf Tab To $105.8 million” “President Donald Trump wrapped up a visit to his Ireland golf resort Friday, in the process adding at least another $3.6 million to a taxpayer-funded golf tab that totals nearly $106 million in just 2 1/2 years. Trump played golf Friday morning and possibly also played Wednesday and Thursday evenings. The White House press corps was not allowed on the property and was instead kept at a hotel in Limerick, more than an hour away from Trump’s resort in Doonbeg. Trump also discussed his resort with Ireland’s minister for trade, employment and business upon his arrival at Shannon Airport, where he met Ireland’s prime minister. That 65-minute meeting was conducted at an airport lounge near the food court and the duty-free shopping because Trump did not want to travel to the nation’s capital, Dublin. It was the entirety of Trump’s official business in Ireland. That meeting, in fact, was added well after the White House began planning for the visit to Doonbeg. The White House and the Irish prime minister’s office announced the meeting on May 21, but a team of White House, Secret Service and State Department officials visited Shannon and Doonbeg in late April. The State Department began signing contracts for the trip on May 22. Among them: $1,023,940 to rent cars and limos; $10,866 to install temporary phone lines and $16,325 to rent golf carts for the Secret Service agents protecting Trump on the golf course. In all, the department gave out $1.5 million in contracts for the Ireland detour, which was melded into Trump’s state visit to England and the ceremony in Normandy to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the Allied invasion of occupied France in World War II. Trump claimed as he left the White House on Sunday: “Well, we’re going to be staying at Doonbeg, in Ireland because it’s convenient and it’s a great place. But it’s convenient.”
In fact, though, Trump was much closer to Paris and Normandy when he was staying in London for the first two nights of his trip. Staying in Doonbeg Wednesday night required a flight from England about 370 miles west to the Atlantic coast of Ireland. The Normandy visit on Thursday meant retracing most of those miles, flying 440 miles east, and then another 440 miles west to return to Ireland that afternoon.
With the additional travel costs of flying the planes that were used as Air Force One; the need to transport U.S. Marine Corps helicopters and presidential limousines to Ireland in addition to England and France; and the State Department expenses, the Ireland excursion cost taxpayers at least $3.6 million more than if Trump had stayed in London on Wednesday night and returned to Washington from France on Thursday, according to a HuffPost analysis.That would bring the total for Trump’s golf vacations during his 2 1/2 years in office to $105.8 million. Within minutes of Trump’s departure from the resort, meanwhile, Trump International Golf Links, Doonbeg, began posting video of his arrival aboard Marine One and of him teeing off the first green in its promotional material ― but then removed them after HuffPost began making inquiries. Both were posted to YouTube, however, by the Democratic-aligned opposition research group American Bridge.
In one video showing the Atlantic Ocean in the background, Trump can be seen hitting a drive and is heard shouting, as his partners compliment him: “No mulligans! No mulligans.”The White House declined to comment for this story. The group that has been suing Trump for accepting payments from foreign governments ― a violation of the Constitution’s “emoluments clause” ― said Trump’s behavior in Ireland in not surprising. “At this point, it appears that Donald Trump views his presidency as just another way to support his business,” said Jordan Libowitz of the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. “On an international trip at taxpayer expense, he stopped by to film a commercial for his Irish golf course, which is advertising the stop explicitly as one by the president of the United States. His own lawyers, in their ‘Conflict of Interest’ white paper, said this would not happen. But at this point, it’s clear all that matters to President Trump is what makes him money.” Trump has now spent 181 days of his first 2 1/2 years in office on a golf course, all but two of which have been on his own properties. (He has played twice in Japan at the invitation of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.) Trump has been at his Florida courses near his Palm Beach resort, Mar-a-Lago, on 61 days; at his Bedminster, New Jersey, resort 58 days; his course in Los Angeles one day; and on his course in Turnberry, Scotland, for two days last summer. That count is more than twice the number of days former President Barack Obama had golfed at the same point in his presidency. And because Trump insists on playing on courses he owns, his dollar total is more than three times the $30 million Obama had spent by this point. Each trip to Mar-a-Lago costs taxpayers $3.4 million and each Bedminster trip at least $1.2 million. Obama, except for two vacations per year, played almost all of his golf at military bases within a short drive of the White House. Those trips, like Trump’s to his course in Northern Virginia, cost taxpayers very little beyond gas for the motorcade vehicles and some overtime expenses. Trump’s golfing trips outside the United States cost taxpayers a great deal more than his domestic golf vacations because of the enormous footprint generated by presidential foreign travel, with more agencies becoming involved. Dozens of White House staff members may travel with Trump during a weekend to Mar-a-Lago or Bedminster, but that number swells to several hundred on an overseas trip. The White House avoids lengthy motorcades on foreign soil, so Marine helicopters and V-22 tilt-rotor aircraft must be prepositioned using C-17 transports that cost $200,000 an hour to fly, according to a recent Government Accountability Office report. A backup Air Force One is sent along as the support plane.
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Post by hop2 on Jun 8, 2019 13:20:24 GMT
I know this is ‘stupid’ to say but... He looks like a mass murderer. He looks mean, angry but detached.
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Post by hop2 on Jun 8, 2019 13:21:06 GMT
Very vague with no measurable intermediate goals. It’s re-election Fodder to say ‘look what I did’
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