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Post by Merge on Jun 12, 2019 0:35:42 GMT
An Atlantic article worth reading. We have an income inequality problem that affects ALL of us, not necessarily an education problem. Teachers in low-income schools have been saying this for years: children experiencing poverty do not come to school equipped to learn at the same rate as their middle-class peers because their basic subsistence needs are not being met. Hopefully other education philanthropists like the Gates Foundation - one of the architects of the catastrophic test-and-punish model - will get on board as well. Think you don't need to be worried about this because your kids are out of school, or are in good public schools, or in private school? Think again. We all suffer when we have a large student population with not enough of their basic subsistence needs met to learn what they need to learn to be successful members of the working class. And there's no way to ignore how institutional racism and union-busting red states have contributed to this problem. Better Public Schools Won't Fix America
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jun 12, 2019 1:08:39 GMT
The article makes a good point.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 12, 2019 1:11:40 GMT
True enough, but skills are learned in vocational schools, trade schools, apprenticeships ... They need to be valued by all of us. Ask your local plumber or electrician what s/he makes, big bucks! Or the welder? Auto Mechanic? Chefs and the list goes on.
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janeliz
Drama Llama
I'm the Wiz and nobody beats me.
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Post by janeliz on Jun 12, 2019 1:22:50 GMT
Thank you for sharing.
This excerpt had me nodding:
As Lawrence Mishel, an economist at the liberal-leaning Economic Policy Institute, notes, poverty creates obstacles that would trip up even the most naturally gifted student. He points to the plight of “children who frequently change schools due to poor housing; have little help with homework; have few role models of success; have more exposure to lead and asbestos; have untreated vision, ear, dental, or other health problems; … and live in a chaotic and frequently unsafe environment.”
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scrappinwithoutpeas
Pearl Clutcher
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Location: Northern Virginia
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Post by scrappinwithoutpeas on Jun 12, 2019 1:26:59 GMT
I read the article and I wish I could like your comments regarding it multiple times! It's so true. Good article and great follow-up comments! TFS!
My mom was an elementary educator (first a teacher, then an administrator) all of her working life. I remember countless stories she shared over the years of kids who came to school unprepared to even be in a learning environment - they were hungry (and sometimes didn't get free lunch because of the stigma or lack of family support), sometimes cold (no warm clothing/shoes), maybe dealing with untreated illness, with no family support for doing homework (or someone to help with homework), sometimes lacking stability in their home environment (facing abuse/drugs/homelessness, etc.), sometimes dealing with apathetic parents who didn't value education, no role models, the list could go on...all attributable to being in a low income household. (Not saying that low-income kids are the ONLY ones who face these issues, just that any or all of these things can be faced by a low-income kid.) Children have a VERY hard time learning if their basic needs are not met first, and punishing the schools/teachers for poor test scores without addressing basic needs so kids are on equal footing in their learning environment makes no sense. I'm a firm supporter of strong public schools, and ALL kids need to be provided with the opportunity to learn, regardless of means...fixing the income inequalities would go a long way towards that goal, IMO.
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Post by Merge on Jun 12, 2019 1:57:59 GMT
True enough, but skills are learned in vocational schools, trade schools, apprenticeships ... They need to be valued by all of us. Ask your local plumber or electrician what s/he makes, big bucks! Or the welder? Auto Mechanic? Chefs and the list goes on. How many vocational schools take kids who can't graduate from high school because they don't have a safe place to sleep, much less do their homework? |
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jun 12, 2019 2:40:02 GMT
True enough, but skills are learned in vocational schools, trade schools, apprenticeships ... They need to be valued by all of us. Ask your local plumber or electrician what s/he makes, big bucks! Or the welder? Auto Mechanic? Chefs and the list goes on. This is true, but you still have to have a solid basic education (especially math) to continue on to get the education to do these jobs well, and that’s hard to obtain when you’re a little kid coming to school possibly cold, hungry, sick or ill prepared every single day. And the reason why kids come to school that way (if they are making it to school regularly at all) is because their families are struggling. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 12, 2019 3:58:47 GMT
True enough, but skills are learned in vocational schools, trade schools, apprenticeships ... They need to be valued by all of us. Ask your local plumber or electrician what s/he makes, big bucks! Or the welder? Auto Mechanic? Chefs and the list goes on. How many vocational schools take kids who can't graduate from high school because they don't have a safe place to sleep, much less do their homework? Our County has 4, maybe 5, vocational high schools. I think most here know I have advocated for better affordable housing, SNAP benefits as well as medical care/health coverage, eye glasses and dental care, quality schools from preschool up, breakfast and lunch... take home foods etc.......... I know what it is like to not have enough food to eat. I remember nights we had cheese and crackers for dinner, thanks to the 5# block of surplus cheese we got, peanut butter that had to be mixed, powdered milk and butter.... |
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luckyjune
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by luckyjune on Jun 12, 2019 4:20:08 GMT
I read this article yesterday and agree with the author (who is from around these parts, I believe). However, I will admit that when I finished reading, I felt bitter. Teachers have been saying these things forever! So why do these ideas gain traction when some rich man brings them up? Teachers are on the front lines day in, day out. This isn't the only topic whereby our knowledge has been ignored. Hacks me off to no end.
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Post by gar on Jun 12, 2019 8:03:48 GMT
This excerpt had me nodding: As Lawrence Mishel, an economist at the liberal-leaning Economic Policy Institute, notes, poverty creates obstacles that would trip up even the most naturally gifted student. He points to the plight of “children who frequently change schools due to poor housing; have little help with homework; have few role models of success; have more exposure to lead and asbestos; have untreated vision, ear, dental, or other health problems; … and live in a chaotic and frequently unsafe environment.”More counter to the argument that simply pulling yourself up by your bootstraps/just try harder is the answer.. |
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jun 12, 2019 9:14:36 GMT
How many vocational schools take kids who can't graduate from high school because they don't have a safe place to sleep, much less do their homework? Our County has 4, maybe 5, vocational high schools. I think most here know I have advocated for better affordable housing, SNAP benefits as well as medical care/health coverage, eye glasses and dental care, quality schools from preschool up, breakfast and lunch... take home foods etc.......... I know what it is like to not have enough food to eat. I remember nights we had cheese and crackers for dinner, thanks to the 5# block of surplus cheese we got, peanut butter that had to be mixed, powdered milk and butter.... Honest question: Are those high schools open to everyone, regardless of grades and attendence? My city has a few vocational high schools as well, but you have to apply in eighth grade the same way you do for a performing arts school. It's quite a process, and highly competitive. A child who has not maintained good grades, and has numerous absences, most likely will not be admitted to one of those schools. And that's if they have a parent at home to help navigate the application process, and support them through it in eighth grade. |
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Post by hop2 on Jun 12, 2019 11:44:20 GMT
I read this article yesterday and agree with the author (who is from around these parts, I believe). However, I will admit that when I finished reading, I felt bitter. Teachers have been saying these things forever! So why do these ideas gain traction when some rich man brings them up? Teachers are on the front lines day in, day out. This isn't the only topic whereby our knowledge has been ignored. Hacks me off to no end. That’s why Secondly, not everyone in your profession is honest with themselves and just expect kids to ‘try harder’ or ‘figure it out’ they take points away for not being prepared. And that’s here in NJ where much of what materials you need are provided. There are NO textbook fees, lab fees, Art class fees, even woodshop has a work around. So many other states there are fees just to get textbooks. And as much as I dislike the friggin PARCC test because it was a true money grab by parsons, it held a light on the issue of school inequality. Nothing brought to light the inequality like ‘rich’ districts getting every child 6-12 a chrome book & ‘poor’ districts taking so much time to administer the PARCC tests due to lack of equipment & lack of adequate internet access as the test is internet based. Even ‘rich’ districts had trouble with providing adequate internet access for that many users simultaneously the first 2 years. Well guess what, some rich dude convinced the asshats in Trenton that if you can’t pass this elusive test that you might not even have access to you can not have a highschool diploma. You can barely work at McDonald’s without a HS diploma much less an apprenticeship or vocational school. Talk about cutting kids down before they have a chance, nothing did that more than the fucking PARCC tests. |
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Post by Merge on Jun 12, 2019 12:02:04 GMT
I read this article yesterday and agree with the author (who is from around these parts, I believe). However, I will admit that when I finished reading, I felt bitter. Teachers have been saying these things forever! So why do these ideas gain traction when some rich man brings them up? Teachers are on the front lines day in, day out. This isn't the only topic whereby our knowledge has been ignored. Hacks me off to no end. That’s why Secondly, not everyone in your profession is honest with themselves and just expect kids to ‘try harder’ or ‘figure it out’ they take points away for not being prepared. And that’s here in NJ where much of what materials you need are provided. There are NO textbook fees, lab fees, Art class fees, even woodshop has a work around. So many other states there are fees just to get textbooks. And as much as I dislike the friggin PARCC test because it was a true money grab by parsons, it held a light on the issue of school inequality. Nothing brought to light the inequality like ‘rich’ districts getting every child 6-12 a chrome book & ‘poor’ districts taking so much time to administer the PARCC tests due to lack of equipment & lack of adequate internet access as the test is internet based. Even ‘rich’ districts had trouble with providing adequate internet access for that many users simultaneously the first 2 years. Well guess what, some rich dude convinced the asshats in Trenton that if you can’t pass this elusive test that you might not even have access to you can not have a highschool diploma. You can barely work at McDonald’s without a HS diploma much less an apprenticeship or vocational school. Talk about cutting kids down before they have a chance, nothing did that more than the fucking PARCC tests. Teachers are often stuck between a rock and a hard place in telling students to "try harder" or whatever. If your evaluation, and in some cases your pay, is tied to your ability to make kids pass the test, but you know (a) that you've been fighting an uphill battle all year against poverty and (b) that you do not have the resources you need, pretty much all you have left is to teach your ass off and hound your students. Totally agree that testing sheds a light on inequality of resources between schools, but of course the ed reformers don't see it that way. As far as they're concerned, the problem is with bad teachers. And then of course there are the test-factory charter schools that produce "results" by teaching an extremely narrow curriculum geared toward passing the test, and who exclude any child who can't meet their stringent behavior expectations - but they're held up as an example of "innovation." |
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Post by sabrinae on Jun 12, 2019 14:29:32 GMT
True enough, but skills are learned in vocational schools, trade schools, apprenticeships ... They need to be valued by all of us. Ask your local plumber or electrician what s/he makes, big bucks! Or the welder? Auto Mechanic? Chefs and the list goes on. Many kids who would be a good fit for those schools never make it to the schools because their basic needs aren’t met. By the time the are old enough for the vocational schools they aren’t eligible because they don’t have the prerequisite classes or they have already dropped out |
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Post by Peace Sign on Jun 12, 2019 14:33:57 GMT
This excerpt had me nodding: As Lawrence Mishel, an economist at the liberal-leaning Economic Policy Institute, notes, poverty creates obstacles that would trip up even the most naturally gifted student. He points to the plight of “children who frequently change schools due to poor housing; have little help with homework; have few role models of success; have more exposure to lead and asbestos; have untreated vision, ear, dental, or other health problems; … and live in a chaotic and frequently unsafe environment.”More counter to the argument that simply pulling yourself up by your bootstraps/just try harder is the answer.. the bootstraps argument literally makes my blood boil. |
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Post by hop2 on Jun 12, 2019 15:21:14 GMT
More counter to the argument that simply pulling yourself up by your bootstraps/just try harder is the answer.. the bootstraps argument literally makes my blood boil. Problem is every rich white dude has a relative who came here with $2 and ‘pulled themselves up by the bootstraps with hard work’ And yes, I have ancestors who came here with no money and worked very hard to get where they wanted to go. My generation is the first generation in our family to go to college. And yes, my ancestors sometimes had it rough they dealt with ‘insert ethnicity’ need not apply stories. BUT That issue usually only lasts a generation? Maybe. If that. But ‘working hard’ and ‘pulling yourself up’ only work in some places/locations & only for some people, certain people. Too many people are so quick to determine that they are ‘lazy’ or don’t want to work because my ancestor blah blah blah.... without finding the real reason. And then on top of the generational poverty thing, the food desert thing, the English as a second language thing, add in institutional Racism and the deck is stacked against them. Don’t get me started on available nutrition that’s a soap box I could go on about for hours. I look forward to a better world for the future because so so many stereo types are just not a thing for my children’s generation. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 12, 2019 15:26:02 GMT
Honest question: Are those high schools open to everyone, regardless of grades and attendence? It has been a long time (1970s), but my DS, who many of you knew, went to Vo-Tech because his 8th grade math teacher said he should never take math again because he couldn't do it! (NO teacher should ever say that to or think that of a student) My DS took electronics, graduated with honors on time! While still attending Vo-Tech he took pre-requesite(sp) prerequisite math at the Community College, passed that too! I do know that kids trying to go to the bio-med/science HS do have to apply, no sure about any of the others....... |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 12, 2019 15:33:19 GMT
An Atlantic article worth reading. We have an income inequality problem that affects ALL of us, not necessarily an education problem. Teachers in low-income schools have been saying this for years: children experiencing poverty do not come to school equipped to learn at the same rate as their middle-class peers because their basic subsistence needs are not being met. Hopefully other education philanthropists like the Gates Foundation - one of the architects of the catastrophic test-and-punish model - will get on board as well. Think you don't need to be worried about this because your kids are out of school, or are in good public schools, or in private school? Think again. We all suffer when we have a large student population with not enough of their basic subsistence needs met to learn what they need to learn to be successful members of the working class. And there's no way to ignore how institutional racism and union-busting red states have contributed to this problem. Better Public Schools Won't Fix America
Everyone expects schools to solve the problem, but schools are steeped in the systems that are the problem. White supremacy and institutional racism. Greed and power hoarding. We need to work on ALL the system so that our schools CAN function the way that we want them to (NOTE: NOT the way they were designed because they were definitely NOT designed for all people). I am heartened to read the responses on here of the folks who get this. Gather our people! |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 12, 2019 15:42:19 GMT
True enough, but skills are learned in vocational schools, trade schools, apprenticeships ... They need to be valued by all of us. Ask your local plumber or electrician what s/he makes, big bucks! Or the welder? Auto Mechanic? Chefs and the list goes on. Many kids who would be a good fit for those schools never make it to the schools because their basic needs aren’t met. By the time the are old enough for the vocational schools they aren’t eligible because they don’t have the prerequisite classes or they have already dropped out Our County has 4, maybe 5, vocational high schools. I think most here know I have advocated for better affordable housing, SNAP benefits as well as medical care/health coverage, eye glasses and dental care, quality schools from preschool up, breakfast and lunch... take home foods etc.......... I know what it is like to not have enough food to eat. I remember nights we had cheese and crackers for dinner, thanks to the 5# block of surplus cheese we got, peanut butter that had to be mixed, powdered milk and butter.... |
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Post by chaosisapony on Jun 12, 2019 16:15:24 GMT
True enough, but skills are learned in vocational schools, trade schools, apprenticeships ... They need to be valued by all of us. Ask your local plumber or electrician what s/he makes, big bucks! Or the welder? Auto Mechanic? Chefs and the list goes on. True! People can make such a good living in the trades. It's hard work sure, but a very valid career choice. An old classmate of mine was struggling through school as a single mom of three on public assistance. Finally changed course and became a welder. Within a year she'd bought her own home, bought a reliable vehicle and has given her kids a great life in a nicer town with better schools and more stability. |
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Post by ntsf on Jun 12, 2019 16:24:37 GMT
my son has been on a waiting list for the electrician's union for a year.. he got a high score on the test, a high interview score.. but it is highly competitive, and he can only apply every two years to the union.
he has about 2-3 yrs of college.including calculus.
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snugglebutter
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by snugglebutter on Jun 12, 2019 17:33:34 GMT
The county I grew up in had one vo-tech high school and almost zero public transportation. Getting a student to and from that school every day would be a huge burden on many families in the outlying towns.
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Post by busy on Jun 12, 2019 17:39:31 GMT
Problem is every rich white dude has a relative who came here with $2 and ‘pulled themselves up by the bootstraps with hard work’ Worse, way too many of them are oblivious to their own personal and generational privileges and believe they succeeded solely through their own hard work. Women and people of color, generally speaking, are more likely to recognize that their good fortune is due to a confluence of factors and their own hard work is but one of them. |
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Post by lucyg on Jun 12, 2019 17:55:21 GMT
the bootstraps argument literally makes my blood boil. Problem is every rich white dude has a relative who came here with $2 and ‘pulled themselves up by the bootstraps with hard work’ And yes, I have ancestors who came here with no money and worked very hard to get where they wanted to go. My generation is the first generation in our family to go to college. And yes, my ancestors sometimes had it rough they dealt with ‘insert ethnicity’ need not apply stories. BUT That issue usually only lasts a generation? Maybe. If that. But ‘working hard’ and ‘pulling yourself up’ only work in some places/locations & only for some people, certain people. Too many people are so quick to determine that they are ‘lazy’ or don’t want to work because my ancestor blah blah blah.... without finding the real reason. And then on top of the generational poverty thing, the food desert thing, the English as a second language thing, add in institutional Racism and the deck is stacked against them. Don’t get me started on available nutrition that’s a soap box I could go on about for hours. I look forward to a better world for the future because so so many stereo types are just not a thing for my children’s generation. Don’t even get me started on the huge number of peas who left home or were kicked out at 16, got an apartment, supported themselves, went to college, and graduated with no debt. Or the ones whose immigrant grandparents learned English right away, because only bad immigrants speak the old country tongue. Or the ones who think a rational way to raise money for summer school is to hold a GoFundMe. Bootstraps!! |
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luckyexwife
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by luckyexwife on Jun 12, 2019 18:03:00 GMT
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Post by lucyg on Jun 12, 2019 18:15:12 GMT
Click on thumbnail to view full-size image. |
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lbrock44
Junior Member
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Post by lbrock44 on Jun 13, 2019 8:40:11 GMT
More counter to the argument that simply pulling yourself up by your bootstraps/just try harder is the answer.. the bootstraps argument literally makes my blood boil. Agreed. I mean, teaching in a district where many kids don't even HAVE bootstraps (shoes), people just don't understand how much many of my students have to overcome just to live. I refused to put pressure on my students to do well on a damn test; and they usually scored a bit better than the ones who had teachers put a lot of stress on them to pass. We have totally lost sight of why we have a public education system in the first place. Instead, it has become all about numbers, data, and, inevitably, making money. I retired last week after 36 years. I just cannot stand to see what my beloved profession has become, and the stress became unbearable. I could rant for pages, but suffice it to say that our system is completely fucked up. |
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pridemom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,843
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Post by pridemom on Jun 13, 2019 11:04:35 GMT
If your parents are drug addicted, have not instilled a good work ethic, have not given you love and encouragement, don’t care to attend your school activities, etc., school is not going to be an important part of your life. If you’re hungry, your home is abusive, your school is falling down, and your needs are not met, you are not going to learn as well as kids who are fed, have parents who love them, attend a good school, and have their needs met. It doesn’t matter much if all the teachers and administrators are encouraging you, when you have the opposite at home. Yes, some kids are intrinsically motivated and will succeed, but not many.
I am the only one in my birth family who did something productive with their life. My mom was 3 times divorced, had severe health issues and stopped working at 31, had a personality disorder, and was a less than stellar parent. We suffered physical, emotional and sexual abuse in our home. One of my siblings on my mom’s side went to prison and the other has a severe mental health disease. When you get multiple generations in these situations, life skills are not taught. Only the driven break the cycle. I don’t know how I got the drive to leave it, but I knew by 12 it was wrong and worked to make my life different. Figure out that puzzle and you can change the path of struggling students.
Teachers, don’t give up, though. These students need you so much in their lives. You are the examples of that other world they so need to see!
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jun 13, 2019 13:07:33 GMT
the bootstraps argument literally makes my blood boil. Agreed. I mean, teaching in a district where many kids don't even HAVE bootstraps (shoes), people just don't understand how much many of my students have to overcome just to live. I refused to put pressure on my students to do well on a damn test; and they usually scored a bit better than the ones who had teachers put a lot of stress on them to pass. We have totally lost sight of why we have a public education system in the first place. Instead, it has become all about numbers, data, and, inevitably, making money. I retired last week after 36 years. I just cannot stand to see what my beloved profession has become, and the stress became unbearable. I could rant for pages, but suffice it to say that our system is completely fucked up. This is the exact situation that a SPED elementary teacher friend of mine deals with every day with her students. Something like 90% of the kids in her school are free or reduced lunch. The come to school in the winter without hats, mittens, boots or winter jackets. Some come to school without socks or even underwear. One 6th grade girl didn’t have a decent winter coat and it was freaking cold that year. My friend went out and bought her a brand new coat that she wore to school for about three days. By the end of the week, the girl was back to wearing a hooded sweatshirt and my friend asked her where her new warm jacket was. She answered that her mom told her she needed it more and took it.  That’s the kind of “parenting” that some of these kids are growing up under. |
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Post by busy on Jun 13, 2019 13:15:51 GMT
That’s the kind of “parenting” that some of these kids are growing up under. Crappy, selfish, abusive parenting knows no socio-economic bounds. We too often cast poor parents as bad parents, and that's just not fair or accurate. There are wonderful parents and awful parents (and everything in between) at all income levels. |
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That’s the kind of “parenting” that some of these kids are growing up under.