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Post by papersilly on Jul 25, 2019 6:16:28 GMT
Yes but only if they have enough votes in the Senate. Otherwise he will come off as a victim that may garner sympathy votes in 2020. If they try to impeach him and can't, his base may also come out in droves to keep him in office to avoid his indictment if he's not in office.
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cycworker
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Post by cycworker on Jul 25, 2019 6:29:53 GMT
I just listened to Pelosi and she repeated what she said before: She’s looking at strengthening their hand and they’re still fighting in the courts for the information they need. She did say it won’t be endless, but when they have what they need, they’ll move forward (I presume she means impeachment). Then it’s up to the Republicans in the Senate to do their duty or not. This is what confuses me: won't they have an easier time getting the court to give them what they need if they begin the impeachment inquiry process? It will be much easier to get the unredacted Mueller report & evidence, plus force McGahn and others to testify, if it's part of an impeachment inquiry. |
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cycworker
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Post by cycworker on Jul 25, 2019 6:31:21 GMT
Yes, they should start the inquiry process.
Frankly, trump is crazy and they should invoke the 25th amendment. He was off the rails today at that press conference.
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Post by dewryce on Jul 25, 2019 7:11:08 GMT
Yes but only if they have enough votes in the Senate. Otherwise he will come off as a victim that may garner sympathy votes in 2020. If they try to impeach him and can't, his base may also come out in droves to keep him in office to avoid his indictment if he's not in office. Am I misunderstanding something? People keep saying they won’t be able to impeach him because of the Senate. They are not part of the impeachment process are they? The House impeaches, the Senate removes? I think he would be impeached, but that’s “just” a public censure, right? Nothing really changes unless, as mentioned above, it affects our ability to gain access to certain documents. They just don’t want to right now, among other reasons, because there is no way they will get the needed votes in the Senate to have him removed from office. I mean, only 4 of the cowards would even admit that his comments were racist and unacceptable. Am am I understanding that correctly or do I need to go back to civics class? I accept that is entirely possible. |
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katybee
Drama Llama
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Post by katybee on Jul 25, 2019 7:59:32 GMT
RE:Pence..... I agree, although I do not think (who knows what I think) he is an all out criminal. However there is another wrinkle to this mess... There has been a lot of talk about dt dumping Pence and bringing on Nikki Haley... My mammaw is concerned that pence is the antichrist getting ready to come into power I agree with your mammaw. |
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Post by elaine on Jul 25, 2019 11:13:11 GMT
I just listened to Pelosi and she repeated what she said before: She’s looking at strengthening their hand and they’re still fighting in the courts for the information they need. She did say it won’t be endless, but when they have what they need, they’ll move forward (I presume she means impeachment). Then it’s up to the Republicans in the Senate to do their duty or not. This is what confuses me: won't they have an easier time getting the court to give them what they need if they begin the impeachment inquiry process? It will be much easier to get the unredacted Mueller report & evidence, plus force McGahn and others to testify, if it's part of an impeachment inquiry. They aren’t fighting the courts to get documents, they are fighting the Administration IN the courts to force them to turn over the documents that Congress have been asking for. The White House has been continuously ignoring valid requests for documents and access to witnesses and has not turned them over to Congress. There is no reason to believe that Trump’s White House would be any more forthcoming with formal Impeachment proceedings. Unfortunately, being forced to take things through the courts slows things down, so it will not be a quick process in the courts whether there are Impeachment proceedings going on or not. However, it is one more layer of undeniable criminal activity (more support for Impeachment) if Congress obtains formal court orders that the Administration turn over documents and they refuse to comply with those court orders. |
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Post by peasapie on Jul 25, 2019 11:41:59 GMT
What will it do? He’s a creep and a crook but impeaching him won’t get him out of office.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jul 25, 2019 12:03:49 GMT
Am I misunderstanding something? People keep saying they won’t be able to impeach him because of the Senate. They are not part of the impeachment process are they? The House impeaches, the Senate removes? I think he would be impeached, but that’s “just” a public censure, right? Nothing really changes unless, as mentioned above, it affects our ability to gain access to certain documents. They just don’t want to right now, among other reasons, because there is no way they will get the needed votes in the Senate to have him removed from office. I mean, only 4 of the cowards would even admit that his comments were racist and unacceptable. The House draws up the articles of impeachment (the charges). The 'trial' is in the Senate where the House prosecutes, the Senate is the 'jury', the judge is the Chief Justice of the SCOTUS! The GOP has the majority in the Senate unlikely to find him guilty! |
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schizo319
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Post by schizo319 on Jul 25, 2019 12:08:32 GMT
I'm in the camp that says he DESERVES to be impeached, but at this point it's a waste of time/resources. If Trump isn’t impeached, I don’t think we’ll see impeachment happen again, at least not in my lifetime. If ever there was a valid case, we have it here. You might be right, unless of course a Democrat gets a blowjob in the oval and then lies about it...  My mammaw is concerned that pence is the antichrist getting ready to come into power I love your mammaw! (and the fact that you call her mammaw - that's what my Ohio grandma was called too) |
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lizacreates
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Post by lizacreates on Jul 25, 2019 13:22:08 GMT
I can't get over the fact a whole country is being subjected to this because of two memos. Not even laws, but two lousy memos. I know of no other developed country that would allow this level of absurdity.
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purplebee
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Post by purplebee on Jul 25, 2019 13:50:13 GMT
Yes but only if they have enough votes in the Senate. Otherwise he will come off as a victim that may garner sympathy votes in 2020. If they try to impeach him and can't, his base may also come out in droves to keep him in office to avoid his indictment if he's not in office. This. IMHO, an attempt at impeachment, as much as he deserves it, would fail to pass and would only fan the hysteria of the deplorables and help to win a second (shudder) term. |
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Post by librarylady on Jul 25, 2019 14:02:46 GMT
Impeachment is the process by which a legislative body levels charges against a government official. It does not mean removal from office; it is only a statement of charges, akin to an indictment in criminal law. Once an individual is impeached, he or she must then face the possibility of conviction by a legislative vote, which judgment entails removal from office. Because impeachment and conviction of officials involve an overturning of the normal constitutional procedures by which individuals achieve high office (election, ratification, or appointment) and because it generally requires a supermajority, they are usually reserved for those deemed to have committed serious abuses of their office. In the United States, for example, impeachment at the federal level is limited to those who may have committed "Treason, Bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors[1]".[2] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment |
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Post by withapea on Jul 25, 2019 14:07:56 GMT
I'm in the impeachment inquiry camp. For me, this is a country over party issue and it sets an extremely dangerous precedence to let this go on without consequence. Trump's message is that he's not being impeached because he's not guilty of any wrongdoing. You don't let an unfit, corrupt person go unchecked because the politics are hard. An inquiry would give the means to get the information and get it out to the public. The GOP are complicit, that doesn't mean the Dems should be as well, and we need to better control the narrative. I'm pretty tired of both parties trying to appease Trump's base. We won congressional seats in the mid-terms in part as a call to have checks on this administration, doing nothing is not the way to earn votes or battle apathy in 2020. This administration is normalizing unethical and criminal behavior and it is a real danger to our country, not only now, but for what it means for the future
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sassyangel
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Post by sassyangel on Jul 25, 2019 15:35:51 GMT
What will it do? He’s a creep and a crook but impeaching him won’t get him out of office. And even if it did, he’s sociopathic enough to refuse to go. 😏🥺 |
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Post by Prenticekid on Jul 25, 2019 15:42:15 GMT
I look at impeachment, in this case, as a general purpose spanking. It sends the message that we will not put up with these actions and conduct. If we don't stand up to it, it will keep happening. Not just with Trump, or the GOP, but with anybody who seeks to flaut our government, laws or even just common decency.
And, the whole "get on with the running of our country" thing is just sad and utterly disingenuous. Our country is not being run, it is being subverted.
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ddly
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Post by ddly on Jul 25, 2019 15:43:42 GMT
He DESERVES to be impeached. However, I vote "not" because of the process and time involved. By the time it could all be done, he is out of office. Also, the Senate will never vote for it, so it is a huge waste of time/energy. Get on with running our nation, please. Sometimes, it is best to move forward and "let it go" for the impeachment process. Much the same way prosecutors do not bring a case to trial when the DA knows he/she won't get a conviction. Time to be pragmatic...... I’m in this camp. He deserves to be impeached, but because the Senate will *never* vote for it - even if Trump were to shoot an innocent young child who was on a tour of the White House - it would be a monumental waste of time/energy/money and Trump and the GOP would campaign on the persecution of the GOP by those despicable America-hating Democrats. I agree with both of these. Yes, he should be, but we'll never get it done. We need to unite and vote him out of the White House. I think that is the most practical move at this point. I also fear Pence as president. He's a religious fanatic who is really serious about banning everything from abortion to Howard Zin books. |
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Post by papersilly on Jul 25, 2019 16:40:02 GMT
Yes but only if they have enough votes in the Senate. Otherwise he will come off as a victim that may garner sympathy votes in 2020. If they try to impeach him and can't, his base may also come out in droves to keep him in office to avoid his indictment if he's not in office. Am I misunderstanding something? People keep saying they won’t be able to impeach him because of the Senate. They are not part of the impeachment process are they? The House impeaches, the Senate removes? I think he would be impeached, but that’s “just” a public censure, right? Nothing really changes unless, as mentioned above, it affects our ability to gain access to certain documents. They just don’t want to right now, among other reasons, because there is no way they will get the needed votes in the Senate to have him removed from office. I mean, only 4 of the cowards would even admit that his comments were racist and unacceptable. Am am I understanding that correctly or do I need to go back to civics class? I accept that is entirely possible. to me, there is no point to impeachment if it doesn't result in removal from office. if the senate won't do that, what would be the point of a public censure? do you think he cares about a censure? he's a liar and cheater. that would just be water off a duck. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jul 25, 2019 17:33:35 GMT
And, the whole "get on with the running of our country" thing is just sad and utterly disingenuous. Our country is not being run, it is being subverted. The House has been passing bills. McConnell refuses to bring them up in the Senate for any kind of vote! Add to the House, win the Senate.... Get rid of McConnell and take control of the legislature! |
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Post by hop2 on Jul 25, 2019 17:57:48 GMT
He DESERVES to be impeached. However, I vote "not" because of the process and time involved. By the time it could all be done, he is out of office. Also, the Senate will never vote for it, so it is a huge waste of time/energy. Get on with running our nation, please. Sometimes, it is best to move forward and "let it go" for the impeachment process. Much the same way prosecutors do not bring a case to trial when the DA knows he/she won't get a conviction. Time to be pragmatic...... I’m in this camp. He deserves to be impeached, but because the Senate will *never* vote for it - even if Trump were to shoot an innocent young child who was on a tour of the White House - it would be a monumental waste of time/energy/money and Trump and the GOP would campaign on the persecution of the GOP by those despicable America-hating Democrats. Start the process now, and if it takes too long, which it will, drop it if he isn’t re-elected. But if the process isn’t started now he’ll have nearly an entire 2nd term while they prepare to impeach him then.. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 25, 2019 17:59:32 GMT
1) an official impeachment INQUIRY will allow them to more easily get information they haven't been able to thus far.
2) it's the House's Constitutional DUTY; it [should have] has nothing to do with politics / re-elections. If DT has done things that rise to the level of impeachment (and in my opinion he has, starting day 1 of his Presidency), it NEEDS to be done to show that Congress understands its responsibility.
3) if the House impeaches but the Senate does NOT, that will show the Senate is totally underneath DT's thumb.
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scrapngranny
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Post by scrapngranny on Jul 25, 2019 18:03:15 GMT
I know Nancy is supposed to be a great political strategist, but I don’t agree with her on this one. Hopefully I’m wrong and she’s got this.
In my head I keep saying if impeachment was designed with the likes of Trump in mind, who could be worse?
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moodyblue
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Post by moodyblue on Jul 25, 2019 18:19:37 GMT
He SHOULD be impeached; he DESERVES to be impeached. And it's the House's responsibility to act in the interests of the country and upholding the Constitution.
BUT, I understand the political reality and we all know the current Senate will not convict. That could just result in a rallying cry for Trump's base who will turn out in droves and likely get him re-elected. Plus, there is real risk for him to do something drastic like get us into a war.
I do think, maybe, an impeachment inquiry is the way to go. Get the information needed. BUT, the House also needs to engage in other business, as they have been, AND make sure the public knows what else they are doing.
Reality is, we need to vote Trump out AND keep the House and get control of the Senate. Voting out McConnell is important. Otherwise it is going to be nearly impossible to start correcting some of the damage Trump and his people have done to our country.
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Post by hopemax on Jul 25, 2019 19:03:33 GMT
I'm in the impeachment inquiry camp. For me, this is a country over party issue and it sets an extremely dangerous precedence to let this go on without consequence. Trump's message is that he's not being impeached because he's not guilty of any wrongdoing. You don't let an unfit, corrupt person go unchecked because the politics are hard. An inquiry would give the means to get the information and get it out to the public. The GOP are complicit, that doesn't mean the Dems should be as well, and we need to better control the narrative. I'm pretty tired of both parties trying to appease Trump's base. We won congressional seats in the mid-terms in part as a call to have checks on this administration, doing nothing is not the way to earn votes or battle apathy in 2020. This administration is normalizing unethical and criminal behavior and it is a real danger to our country, not only now, but for what it means for the future This is where I'm at. This is becoming less and less about Trump, personally, and more about who we are as a country. What we do or don't do now, sets the table for the next 100 years. We saw what the GOP is willing to impeach over, and now we are supposed to say that someone incompetent AND has questionable ties with a foreign government is okay to let slide because the next election is only a few years away? The next time, and next person, WILL be even worse, and you can always guarantee there will be a next time. We either follow our laws or what is the point of having them? The GOP, and Senate's unwillingness to fulfill their Constitutional responsibilities is not justification for the Democrats to ignore theirs as well. As the saying goes, "Two wrongs don't make a right." The way the Democrats are going, I don't think anyone cares the principles of this country. Impeachment is now also about getting everyone on record, including the Senate, for history. This is a "big history" moment, and history will record the inaction of all parties. We talk about what lead to all the various wars and big power shifting moments. This is ours. They will talk about the end of this post-WWII era of relative peace, and the return of nationalism, right-wing politics and there will be paragraphs about how the United States of America elected an incompetent, unqualified reality television star as President, and in light of his incompetence and unwillingness of the other two branches of government to rectify the situation, left the rest of the World unprepared, and therefore frozen, creating power vacuum. Allowing the rise of other nationalistic regimes, having a devastating effect when combined with the resource wars that are sure to return with the growing effects of climate change. Human history is bloody and territorial. We will be back there in a blink of an eye, if this kind of behavior is normalized and tolerated by the so-called "leader of the free world." |
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tracylynn
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Post by tracylynn on Jul 25, 2019 20:44:45 GMT
Ugh. I can't frickin' decide. My heart says yes and my head says no. Word. I want him gone. Yesterday, a month ago, a year ago, in 2016. I didn't want him to win the first time, I don't want him to win again. But without McConnell on board this is just a waste of time and money. And he's too afraid of losing his seat to go against Trump now. I think the Dems need to move on. Like someone up thread said, work on getting out the vote. Spend time in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, where we lost in 2016. Knock on doors. Talk, talk and more talk! Let Nancy push through bills that make sense, let Mitch continue to refuse votes. Show people that the GOP are the obstructionists, not the Dems. |
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Post by christine58 on Jul 25, 2019 20:57:26 GMT
I voted no...I want him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law when he is out of office.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 25, 2019 21:19:27 GMT
I voted no...I want him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law when he is out of office.  Don't we need both? If he wins a second term, wouldn't the statute of limitations preclude charging him? www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/25/mueller-just-showed-why-impeachment-proceedings-should-begin-soon/?utm_term=.27a9a3a2a2e3"Mueller’s answer needs to be front and center as Congress decides its next move. If the president is reelected and serves his full term, the five-year statute of limitations on obstruction of justice will run out before he leaves office. Thus, reelection would almost guarantee that Trump will never stand trial for his crimes. The only way Congress can ensure Trump is ever held accountable is to begin impeachment proceedings." |
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Post by christine58 on Jul 25, 2019 21:28:13 GMT
I voted no...I want him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law when he is out of office. Don't we need both? If he wins a second term, wouldn't the statute of limitations preclude charging him? www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/25/mueller-just-showed-why-impeachment-proceedings-should-begin-soon/?utm_term=.27a9a3a2a2e3"Mueller’s answer needs to be front and center as Congress decides its next move. If the president is reelected and serves his full term, the five-year statute of limitations on obstruction of justice will run out before he leaves office. Thus, reelection would almost guarantee that Trump will never stand trial for his crimes. The only way Congress can ensure Trump is ever held accountable is to begin impeachment proceedings."DAMN |
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Post by papersilly on Jul 25, 2019 21:41:19 GMT
I voted no...I want him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law when he is out of office. sadly, i don't think that will happen. if he is voted out in 2020, people will be so happy about it that they will not want to spend another second dealing with him. now, if they vote him in for another four years and people have to deal with his shit for another four, then i think people are more likely to bring charges just to feel like they enacted something against him. |
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Post by twinks on Jul 25, 2019 21:48:12 GMT
I want Trump, Pence and McConnell gone - that is my bottom line. I think that impeachment isn't the way to go. We need to get it together and get the best candidate that can win in 2020. We need to take over the Senate.
I am in great fear what will happen between November 2020 and January 2021 when Trump doesn't win. I am afraid of not only what Trump will do, but, his base. I am afraid we are headed for civil war.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 25, 2019 21:59:47 GMT
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