johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,684
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Jul 28, 2019 16:12:22 GMT
I have no reason to suspect my kid of drug use, he's actually dropped friends he's had for years because of their drug use. He's pretty honest with us. So, no I haven't had a need to drug test him but I would if I felt the need and I support random drug testing in school (for those in extracurriculars, education itself is a right) and as far as I'm concerned they can start with my kid. If it came up positive then I'd rather know now and get him help before he's out from under my roof and/or it becomes a bigger problem. He is also in support of random drug screening, knowing his team might lose some key players (on the flip side, those that follow the rules might not be as good but they would see more court time). Thank you for responding. What I find interesting about your response is that you begin from a place of lack of cause, so have not tested your child. You use the word "need." In the case of random testing, there is no "need" established, no cause. I'm totally not in support of kids using drugs, let me be clear. But I worry about policies that don't address the actual problem of drug use. True, but I'm also a present parent (I see and judge my kid far more closely than someone in the school). I could tell if his eyes were blood shot, if he was coming home at 2am, if he smelled off, if he was hanging out with questionable friends, etc. All things that I would use to judge if a drug test were appropriate; the school wouldn't see/know those things. I also CARE if my kid did drugs, if there was an issue I would want to know and would seek appropriate treatment. I know one kid who's mom is actually a teacher in the high school, her kid is (supposedly, I've not actually seen it with my own eyes) is a big time pot head/drinker (I don't mean an occasional party). This kid could have a very bright future; he's very athletic, he'll likely be either valedictorian or salutatorian. Mom either has big time blinders on or she doesn't care; I can't figure out which but I really think that kid will crash and burn in college. Since it appears that mom isn't helping him on her own maybe a positive drug test would force her hand (or it would get brushed under the rug since mom's a teacher, a real possibility ). I worry about his future.
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Post by busy on Jul 28, 2019 16:37:27 GMT
Then think ............. "but she wanted it!" Is that an acceptable experiment? That's not comparable in any way IMO. Choosing to try drugs only affects you and is a pretty common part of youthful experimentation. If you do something dangerous that harms others while on drugs, that's illegal and should be. But to compare simply trying drugs with sexual assault is ridiculous.
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Post by busy on Jul 28, 2019 16:41:17 GMT
Thank you for responding. What I find interesting about your response is that you begin from a place of lack of cause, so have not tested your child. You use the word "need." In the case of random testing, there is no "need" established, no cause. I'm totally not in support of kids using drugs, let me be clear. But I worry about policies that don't address the actual problem of drug use. True, but I'm also a present parent (I see and judge my kid far more closely than someone in the school). I could tell if his eyes were blood shot, if he was coming home at 2am, if he smelled off, if he was hanging out with questionable friends, etc. All things that I would use to judge if a drug test were appropriate; the school wouldn't see/know those things. I also CARE if my kid did drugs, if there was an issue I would want to know and would seek appropriate treatment. I know one kid who's mom is actually a teacher in the high school, her kid is (supposedly, I've not actually seen it with my own eyes) is a big time pot head/drinker (I don't mean an occasional party). This kid could have a very bright future; he's very athletic, he'll likely be either valedictorian or salutatorian. Mom either has big time blinders on or she doesn't care; I can't figure out which but I really think that kid will crash and burn in college. Since it appears that mom isn't helping him on her own maybe a positive drug test would force her hand (or it would get brushed under the rug since mom's a teacher, a real possibility ). I worry about his future. Oh, I see. Kids who use drugs have bad parents so the schools needs to step in. Interesting.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 28, 2019 16:43:58 GMT
I guess I wonder how many parents of teens on here who support random drug testing did or will in the near future take their own children for random testing. If not, why not? I still don't know where I land on this, but no I have not taken my kids. A)I don't really suspect them B) if they are doing drugs, they are still functioning pretty well, so... C) I smoked pot and drank and did acid a couple times in high school. I turned out okay. I am all over with this topic. One minute I'm supportive, then next I'm against it. Random-truly random with transparency about how picked seems most fair. But since you want to protect the privacy of the student, it would be hard to prove randomness All participants tested with random dates during season seems better for fairness, but would be expensive. Maybe add it to the fees at the beginning. Like I said up thread, I would have abstained from smoking pot or cigarettes during soccer season in order to play. Others night just quit the team or not go out doe the activity if it meant they had to quit something. I know the kids ds played with. Quite a few of our star basketball players would have tested positive for pot. A couple football players were benched for 2 games for drinking at a party at homecoming...but not all the players that were at the party were benched. I know that the one who went to the hospital with alcohol poisoning was definitely benched. Which leads to the issue that some of the kids didn't want to call for an ambulance because they didn't want to get busted too. I kept my grades up during soccer season to play. I know quite a few students at my school who work their butt off to stay eligible and then when the season is done they drop their effort immediately Like I said, I see a bunch of sides to this issue.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jul 28, 2019 16:46:32 GMT
I have no problem with drug testing of any kind. I’ve got nothing to hide, and it might save a life.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jul 28, 2019 16:47:11 GMT
I don't like this idea...period. It seems to me that this is a violation of bodily autonomy and parental rights. And I say this as a parent, who has tested, for just cause. I do have children who have experienced with alcohol and marijuana. IMO, it is not the schools business as long as my kids are showing up, not being disruptive, and learning that is where their rights end.
Fact, I am also opposed to drug testing in the workplace unless you have a job that endangers others and are not showing up to work high or drunk. I feel like what I do on Saturday night is no one's business. I choose to work in a place with an entry drug test and the knowledge that I could be tested at any time. I don't think it is right, but it is my choice to work there.
And I am also of the opinion that alcohol and marijuana differ from harder drugs and can be used responsibly.
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Post by busy on Jul 28, 2019 16:49:27 GMT
Like I said up thread, I would have abstained from smoking pot or cigarettes during soccer season in order to play. You say that now, as an adult with the benefit of hindsight, but are you really sure? We didn't do any drug testing at my school, but I knew kids who were tested for one thing or another and most of them knew ways to beat the test (generally a friend's clean urine, but I know people did other things too). Looking back, I can't say for sure if I would have abstained if my school tested or I would have borrowed someone's pee ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Either way, the best case scenario would have been abstaining during the sport/activity season, which is not the same as not using drugs at all. If the goal is to reduce drug use overall, this doesn't seem like the way to do it.
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,684
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Jul 28, 2019 16:49:30 GMT
True, but I'm also a present parent (I see and judge my kid far more closely than someone in the school). I could tell if his eyes were blood shot, if he was coming home at 2am, if he smelled off, if he was hanging out with questionable friends, etc. All things that I would use to judge if a drug test were appropriate; the school wouldn't see/know those things. I also CARE if my kid did drugs, if there was an issue I would want to know and would seek appropriate treatment. I know one kid who's mom is actually a teacher in the high school, her kid is (supposedly, I've not actually seen it with my own eyes) is a big time pot head/drinker (I don't mean an occasional party). This kid could have a very bright future; he's very athletic, he'll likely be either valedictorian or salutatorian. Mom either has big time blinders on or she doesn't care; I can't figure out which but I really think that kid will crash and burn in college. Since it appears that mom isn't helping him on her own maybe a positive drug test would force her hand (or it would get brushed under the rug since mom's a teacher, a real possibility ). I worry about his future. Oh, I see. Kids who use drugs have bad parents so the schools needs to step in. Interesting. Of course not, but sometimes schools pick up where parents leave off (regardless of why). Bottom line is that athletes are held to a code of conduct (at least around here) which includes not using drugs, they sign agreeing to that; why not expect them to uphold their end of the deal?
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 28, 2019 16:53:33 GMT
Like I said up thread, I would have abstained from smoking pot or cigarettes during soccer season in order to play. You say that now, as an adult with the benefit of hindsight, but are you really sure? We didn't do any drug testing at my school, but I knew kids who were tested for one thing or another and most of them knew ways to beat the test (generally a friend's clean urine, but I know people did other things too). Looking back, I can't say for sure if I would have abstained if my school tested or I would have borrowed someone's pee ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Either way, the best case scenario would have been abstaining during the sport/activity season, which is not the same as not using drugs at all. If the goal is to reduce drug use overall, this doesn't seem like the way to do it. yes I am sure. Soccer was important to me. I also "knew" how to beat the test, but if they had said, "you will be tested sometime during the season" I would have made sure that during the season I would pop clean. As someone who drank most weekends with friends, I'd they had tested for alcohol, I wouldn't have drank during the season either. Now, if it was a one and done deal and I'd already been tested, I probably would have gone back to the study after being clean.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,969
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Jul 28, 2019 16:54:22 GMT
Thank you for answering. May I ask if it was random or if you had cause to suspect use? How did your child(ren) react? I have never known anyone who had their kids randomly tested. Only for suspected use, so I’m curious. Well, I’m a high school teacher so I always suspect kids are going to make bad choices here and there. But beyond that, no particular suspicion. It came up in conversation, much like here on this board, and I chose to follow through with my own kid. She didn’t care. She later said it was no different than when I would randomly call to check where she was or talk to parents before she spent the weekend with a friend.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 16, 2024 10:24:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 17:12:40 GMT
Perhaps we should random drug test the School Board too.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jul 28, 2019 17:18:22 GMT
Perhaps we should random drug test the School Board too. Hahaha...I agree.
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,684
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Jul 28, 2019 17:20:47 GMT
Perhaps we should random drug test the School Board too. Some, if not all, of our school members are subject to random testing at their day jobs.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 28, 2019 17:26:02 GMT
True, but I'm also a present parent (I see and judge my kid far more closely than someone in the school). I could tell if his eyes were blood shot, if he was coming home at 2am, if he smelled off, if he was hanging out with questionable friends, etc. All things that I would use to judge if a drug test were appropriate; the school wouldn't see/know those things. I also CARE if my kid did drugs, if there was an issue I would want to know and would seek appropriate treatment. I know one kid who's mom is actually a teacher in the high school, her kid is (supposedly, I've not actually seen it with my own eyes) is a big time pot head/drinker (I don't mean an occasional party). This kid could have a very bright future; he's very athletic, he'll likely be either valedictorian or salutatorian. Mom either has big time blinders on or she doesn't care; I can't figure out which but I really think that kid will crash and burn in college. Since it appears that mom isn't helping him on her own maybe a positive drug test would force her hand (or it would get brushed under the rug since mom's a teacher, a real possibility ). I worry about his future. Oh, I see. Kids who use drugs have bad parents so the schools needs to step in. Interesting. I think this is kind of the attitude I see often when it comes to issues like this. I'm not saying this is you, @johnnysmom, but often there is a "my kid wouldn't" but a willingness to police the bodies of other kids. I think it's up to parents to do that, and not for some parents to decide how other parents should handle their children. (My exception to this would be the decision to vaccinate, because that directly impacts the health of everyone in the school.) But random drug testing? I'm just not sure I've seen enough evidence that it's an actual deterrent or that it impacts the overall health of the student body in a positive way. I would rather any money and energy be spent toward mental health and counseling staff.
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sweetpeasmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,640
Jun 27, 2014 14:04:01 GMT
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Post by sweetpeasmom on Jul 28, 2019 17:35:05 GMT
As the mom of 2 high school athletes, I think it should be done. Vaping is a HUGE issue. I’m almost positive some of them are vaping ones with THC in them. Have you taken your children for drug testing? With one I have done an at home test before. I had my concerns and I went and bought one. They passed it. However, when they peed in the cup, there wasn’t enough. It was dumped out, they rinsed it and waited to pee again. So I have part of me that wonders if it was compromised. I could be totally off.
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Post by mags243 on Jul 28, 2019 17:46:16 GMT
I have two high school students-one is an athlete and one is a musician. To participate in extracurriculars they have to sign a code of conduct and can be tested any time. We have to sign off on it as well. I have zero issues with it.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 28, 2019 17:49:07 GMT
Oh, I see. Kids who use drugs have bad parents so the schools needs to step in. Interesting. I think this is kind of the attitude I see often when it comes to issues like this. I'm not saying this is you, @johnnysmom, but often there is a "my kid wouldn't" but a willingness to police the bodies of other kids. I think it's up to parents to do that, and not for some parents to decide how other parents should handle their children. (My exception to this would be the decision to vaccinate, because that directly impacts the health of everyone in the school.) But random drug testing? I'm just not sure I've seen enough evidence that it's an actual deterrent or that it impacts the overall health of the student body in a positive way. I would rather any money and energy be spent toward mental health and counseling staff. first, I 100% agree with your last sentence. But I disagree that drug use doesn't directly impact other students. -students could be driving while drunk or high -have a bad reaction to the drug and cause the school to go into a hold while the student receives medical attention with all learning stopped (has happened multiple times at my school) -uses resources such as a principal or VP to deal with them, in school suspension monitors, SRO hours -drug dealers in school -violence in school due to drugs or dealing Ftr, I don't think random drug testing is probably going to stop the above completely, just that student drug use can affect others
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 28, 2019 17:54:54 GMT
I think this is kind of the attitude I see often when it comes to issues like this. I'm not saying this is you, @johnnysmom, but often there is a "my kid wouldn't" but a willingness to police the bodies of other kids. I think it's up to parents to do that, and not for some parents to decide how other parents should handle their children. (My exception to this would be the decision to vaccinate, because that directly impacts the health of everyone in the school.) But random drug testing? I'm just not sure I've seen enough evidence that it's an actual deterrent or that it impacts the overall health of the student body in a positive way. I would rather any money and energy be spent toward mental health and counseling staff. first, I 100% agree with your last sentence. But I disagree that drug use doesn't directly impact other students. -students could be driving while drunk or high -have a bad reaction to the drug and cause the school to go into a hold while the student receives medical attention with all learning stopped (has happened multiple times at my school) -uses resources such as a principal or VP to deal with them, in school suspension monitors, SRO hours -drug dealers in school -violence in school due to drugs or dealing Ftr, I don't think random drug testing is probably going to stop the above completely, just that student drug use can affect others I agree about those impacts, but I don't know that random drug testing in extracurriculars will a) deter or b) solve any of that. www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/drug-testing/faq-drug-testing-in-schoolsI feel like it's a mostly ineffective, mostly meaningless intervention that can give a false sense of security and in some ways is a way for schools to say they're doing prevention while really doing not much.
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Post by ajsweetpea on Jul 28, 2019 17:59:21 GMT
I really don't love this idea and wouldn't be happy if my child had to do this to participate in extracurricular activities. Also, there's always a way to get around these tests. My husband has a cousin who was heavily into pot back in the day and was constantly stoned. He had to take a drug test for a job and hid someone else's urine in a plastic container in his underwear for the test. He did not get caught and got the job. So really, sometimes I think drug tests just test your creativity!
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,684
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Jul 28, 2019 19:01:21 GMT
I think this is kind of the attitude I see often when it comes to issues like this. I'm not saying this is you, @johnnysmom, but often there is a "my kid wouldn't" but a willingness to police the bodies of other kids. I think it's up to parents to do that, and not for some parents to decide how other parents should handle their children. (My exception to this would be the decision to vaccinate, because that directly impacts the health of everyone in the school.) But random drug testing? I'm just not sure I've seen enough evidence that it's an actual deterrent or that it impacts the overall health of the student body in a positive way. I would rather any money and energy be spent toward mental health and counseling staff. first, I 100% agree with your last sentence. But I disagree that drug use doesn't directly impact other students. -students could be driving while drunk or high -have a bad reaction to the drug and cause the school to go into a hold while the student receives medical attention with all learning stopped (has happened multiple times at my school) -uses resources such as a principal or VP to deal with them, in school suspension monitors, SRO hours -drug dealers in school -violence in school due to drugs or dealing Ftr, I don't think random drug testing is probably going to stop the above completely, just that student drug use can affect others I agree with all of this. Also, use of drugs can result in lower test scores thereby resulting in decreased funding/teacher salaries/teacher retention which impacts all students. Again, I don't know if administering random drug tests actually decreases drug usage but if it makes even a small impact it's worth looking into IMO.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 28, 2019 19:14:37 GMT
first, I 100% agree with your last sentence. But I disagree that drug use doesn't directly impact other students. -students could be driving while drunk or high -have a bad reaction to the drug and cause the school to go into a hold while the student receives medical attention with all learning stopped (has happened multiple times at my school) -uses resources such as a principal or VP to deal with them, in school suspension monitors, SRO hours -drug dealers in school -violence in school due to drugs or dealing Ftr, I don't think random drug testing is probably going to stop the above completely, just that student drug use can affect others I agree with all of this. Also, use of drugs can result in lower test scores thereby resulting in decreased funding/teacher salaries/teacher retention which impacts all students. Again, I don't know if administering random drug tests actually decreases drug usage but if it makes even a small impact it's worth looking into IMO. I'd like to push back on your comment about drug use and lower test scores. While I can certainly make assumptions that it would be true that students on drugs would have lower test scores, do you have actual studies to back up your claim? Lower test scores are a concern, but ascribing their cause to student drug use overlooks the huge systemic issues that are more likely causes of lower scores (including poverty, systemic racism, inequitable school funding). Examining causes for student drug use would be more important to me than random tests. From the link I posted above (last updated in 2017): What has research determined about the utility of random drug tests in schools?
Study findings in this area show mixed results, but researchers generally agree that student drug testing should not be a stand-alone strategy for reducing substance use in students and that school climate (the quality and character of school life) is an important factor for achieving success in drug prevention programs. Because there is not a clear benefit to drug testing in schools, the American Academy of Pediatrics "opposes widespread implementation of drug testing as a means of achieving substance abuse intervention.3
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,684
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Jul 28, 2019 19:20:02 GMT
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 28, 2019 19:20:45 GMT
<<< used drugs, but always scored in the top 99% on standardized tests.
My GPA was lower than it should have been, but that was due to ditching and not doing my homework. I passed most of my tests and never failed, although I am pretty sure I should have failed a couple, but i passed so I was eligible
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 28, 2019 19:25:13 GMT
Habitual users concern me, too. However, there is little evidence that random drug testing will deter habitual users.
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Peal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,524
Jun 25, 2014 22:45:40 GMT
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Post by Peal on Jul 28, 2019 20:21:33 GMT
I asked my DH what he thought because he has extensive experience with Drug Testing at the lab level.
His first question was who is going to pay for this? Then he wanted to know how they were testing? Then he wanted to know if they were just screening? Lots of false positives. Or also doing confirmations? Then he asked who would be paying for all of that. Because just screening is going to create chaos. And confirmations is expensive. Then I mentioned they would be testing for alcohol (I saw mentioned up thread, correct me if I'm wrong) And he laughed. Unless they are doing breathalyzers, you can not get metabolites of alcohol from urine or saliva for testing. So that's not going to happen.
He is not a fan.
I have not random drug tested my kids and I would not do so without cause. We have discussions about the dangers of drug use, which drugs are more dangerous/potentially fatal, what the consequences, legal and health and otherwise, of drug use are, and what our family expectations of illegal activity are.
If the school had a random drug test requirement for participating in school activities we would agree to it because those are the rules to play. But we would take our concerns to the school board and expect to see some significant justification for tax dollars being spent in this way to include peer reviewed studies that show it works as a deterrent.
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Post by Merge on Jul 28, 2019 20:27:55 GMT
The best predictor of high test scores is high family income.
(These are also the kids who can afford more drugs.)
I’ll be honest: marijuana and alcohol use are rampant at my kids’ high school, as at many schools. It continues to be ranked nationally in the top .01% of high schools in the country. So I call BS on the idea that drug testing would somehow raise test scores.
I do think this has a lot more to do with policing other people’s kids, a misguided continuation of the disastrous “war on drugs,” and probably an element of profit for someone where testing is widespread.
I’m glad our district doesn’t waste its money on this kind of thing. Let’s look at programs that actually help kids and increase their performance.
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Post by busy on Jul 28, 2019 20:46:19 GMT
The best predictor of high test scores is high family income. (These are also the kids who can afford more drugs.) I’ll be honest: marijuana and alcohol use are rampant at my kids’ high school, as at many schools. It continues to be ranked nationally in the top .01% of high schools in the country. So I call BS on the idea that drug testing would somehow raise test scores. I do think this has a lot more to do with policing other people’s kids, a misguided continuation of the disastrous “war on drugs,” and probably an element of profit for someone where testing is widespread. I’m glad our district doesn’t waste its money on this kind of thing. Let’s look at programs that actually help kids and increase their performance. Yup. I know exactly who these policies would have hurt the most, and it wasn’t me - the top student taking every AP class, great test scores and grades and never in trouble for anything and an outstanding leadership and extracurricular records, from a privileged family, and did some kind of drugs or got drunk pretty much every weekend of my senior year. I have zero doubt that had we screened and I failed, it would have been covered up because it would have been embarrassing to the school. The less privileged kid who was a marginal performer in school? They’d get crucified.
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Post by mikklynn on Jul 28, 2019 20:48:31 GMT
Oh hell no. School district doesn’t get to decide my kid’s future (college admissions or scholarships, for example) randomly, without cause, for something that happened outside of school time. We’d be getting lawyers involved. Expensive ones. It would be Merge ISD when we were done with them. I’d strongly suggest that any school district that doesn’t want to also deal with parents suing them stops wasting money trying to catch kids for stuff they do off campus and outside of school time. The “don’t like it don’t play” argument holds no water with me. It’s a public school. My tax dollars pay for it. And no way in hell are they going to reduce my kid’s chances at scholarship because she got sat out of the orchestra for testing positive for pot, nicotine or anything else. As long as she’s not using or high at school, it’s not their fucking business. ETA: and what really sucks about a policy like this is that it’s not my kid who is going to suffer. In this hypothetical situation, if I have my lawyer friend call them up, that’s probably going to be the end of it and my kid will be fine. It’s the kid with less affluent and connected parents, the kid whose parents don’t feel safe enough to make waves - often, the kid whose skin is not white - who is going to suffer. And that’s not OK with me, either. Let’s let the parents parent their kids and let the schools worry about what they actually do in school. Everyone will be better off. (I’m also not a fan of no pass/no play rules in K-12 education. If you’ve got a kid who struggles academically but excels at football or trumpet or art, what are we doing when we take away the thing that gives him a reason to go to school every day? Not doing him any favors, that’s for sure.) I agree with everything you said.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 16, 2024 10:24:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 21:00:51 GMT
Perhaps we should random drug test the School Board too. Some, if not all, of our school members are subject to random testing at their day jobs. I'm not talking about "school members", I'm talking about the School Board. And all of them. Not at their day job. As members of the board.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 16, 2024 10:24:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 21:02:27 GMT
Habitual users concern me, too. However, there is little evidence that random drug testing will deter habitual users. If it's "habitual users", then presumably, there would be cause. Vs. the random testing just because.
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