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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 28, 2019 1:20:24 GMT
White evangelicals love Trump and aren't confused about why. No one should be.Focusing on the disconnect between Trump's actions and the moral aspects of evangelicals' faith misses the issue that keeps their support firm. Sept. 27, 2019, 12:17 PM EDT By Anthea Butler (opinion) Liberals have a tendency to wring their hands at the strong support President Donald Trump — he of the three wives and multiple affairs, and a tendency to engage in exceedingly un-Christian-like behavior at the slightest provocation — continues to receive from the white evangelical community. White evangelical support for Donald Trump is still at 73 percent, and more than 80 percent of white evangelicals voted for him in 2016. But focusing on the disconnect between Trump's personal actions and the moral aspects of their faith misses the issue that keeps their support firm: racism. Modern evangelicals' support for this president cannot be separated from the history of evangelicals' participation in and support for racist structures in America. Evangelicals, in religious terminology, believe that Jesus Christ is the savior of humanity. They have a long history in America, and include a number of different groups, including Baptists, Pentecostals, Methodists and nondenominational churches. After the schism among the Baptists, Methodists and Presbyterians in the 1850s over slavery, conservative denominations like the Southern Baptists — who defended slavery through their readings of scripture — came into being. And because the primary schisms between northern and southern denominations was over the issues of slavery, in the pre- and post-Civil War years, African American Protestants formed their own denominations. Evangelical denominations formed from these splits in the South were usually comprised of people who had made money from slavery or supported it. After the Civil War many were more likely to have supported the Ku Klux Klan and approved of (or participated in) lynching. The burning cross of the KKK, for instance, was a symbol of white Christian supremacy, designed both to put fear into the hearts of African Americans and to highlight the supposed Christian righteousness of the terrorist act. ** So it's not surprising that white evangelicals supported the Muslim ban, are the least likely to accept refugees into the country (according to the Pew Foundation) and, though a slim majority oppose it, are the denomination most likely to support Trump's child separation policy. White evangelicals certainly are not concerned with white supremacy, because they are often white supremacists. And Trump appeals to these evangelicals because of his focus on declension, decline and destruction, which fits into evangelical beliefs about the end times. When Trump used the term “American carnage” in his inaugural address, evangelicals listened; they too, believed America is in decline. Their imagined powerlessness, and the need for a strong authoritarian leader to protect them, is at the root of their racial and social animus. Their persecution complex is a heady mix of their fear of “socialists,” Muslims, independent women, LGBT people and immigration. Their feelings of fragility, despite positions of power, make them vote for people like Donald Trump — and morally suspect candidates like Roy Moore. Rhetoric, not morality, drives their voting habits. All of this has made a mockery of white evangelical protestations about morality and the family. Moral issues once drove white evangelical votes but, first when Obama was elected and then when the Supreme Court struck down the federal ban on same sex marriage in June of 2015, what remained was their fear. Trump promised justices and a return to a time when they felt less fear, and he delivered, at least on the former. White evangelical fealty to him is firm. Evangelicals in America are not simply a religious group; they are a political group inexorably linked to the Republican Party. Trump delivered evangelicals from the shame of losing, and they will back him again in 2020 to avoid losing again. So perhaps we should take evangelicals at their word that they will support Trump come hell or high water, rather than twisting ourselves into knots trying to figure out why. ** Anthea Butler is an associate professor of Religious Studies and Africana Studies at the University of Pennsylvania. She is the author of "Women in the Church of God in Christ: Making A Sanctified World" (The University of North Carolina Press) and her forthcoming book is tentatively titled “From Palin to Trump: Evangelicals, Race, and Nationalism” (The New Press).** more at link: www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/white-evangelicals-love-trump-aren-t-confused-about-why-no-ncna1046826Interesting.........
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Post by cindyupnorth on Sept 28, 2019 1:30:34 GMT
I disagree. I think it’s based on the pro life- anti abortion beliefs. Not racism
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Post by quinlove on Sept 28, 2019 1:35:05 GMT
Oh this makes me sick to my stomach. So much is wrong here. This is not my definition of Christ Like...
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Post by dewryce on Sept 28, 2019 1:36:44 GMT
I disagree. I think it’s based on the pro life- anti abortion beliefs. Not racism I think it’s both. There is a reason white supremacy is on the rise, and hate acts are on the rise. eta: Even if it was only the one issue, how does a true Christian separate their support of restrictive abortion laws from the obvious racism of his administration? From the hell and inhumane treatment people he is creating at the border? How do they, in their minds and hearts, justify this because of his anti-abortion agenda? How do they determine which life is more important? |
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Mystie
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Post by Mystie on Sept 28, 2019 1:41:17 GMT
I disagree. I think it’s based on the pro life- anti abortion beliefs. Not racism I agree. There are plenty of racist evangelicals, and that can't be discounted, but I think abortion (and the false narrative + propaganda the evangelical community has constructed around it) is the main issue that has so many Christians supporting him. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 28, 2019 1:49:20 GMT
Abortion is mentioned in the article as are, LGBTQ, KKK, anti-Muslim and other things too. I didn't post the whole article..
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Post by stampinchick on Sept 28, 2019 2:00:31 GMT
I disagree. I think it’s based on the pro life- anti abortion beliefs. Not racism This. While there certainly are some that are racist, everything I hear is about pro-life things he has pushed for and religious freedom things that the media doesn't bother to cover because it doesn't fit their narrative. I know people that are strong Trump supporters regardless of what he does or says and I just don't get it. I can't vote for a guy who acts the way he does and says the things he says, but I know people that are willing to overlook those things because they see positive things that he is getting done. I know of a lot of "evangelicals" that think Trump is terrible but the media pushes the idea that all support him. This writer lost credibility for me when she wrote "Evangelicals, in religious terminology, believe that Jesus Christ is the savior of humanity." She doesn't understand what evangelicals are or what they believe. And honestly, there are a lot of churches that fall under what has been considered to be evangelical that are trying to distance themselves from the term because the "evangelicals" have strayed so far away from a solid Biblical foundation. There is a HUGE difference between all the churches that traditionally have been considered "evangelical" and the gap is getting wider. A Pentecostal church is vastly different and has very little in common as far as beliefs with a Reformed Baptist church even though traditionally both would be considered evangelical. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 28, 2019 3:27:45 GMT
Ok, here's another article which agrees with abortion is #1 for some. Evangelist scalds fellow pastors for abandoning their ‘moral core’ to support Trump and the GOP in brutal op-edElizabeth Preza, AlterNet ELIZABETH PREZA, ALTERNET 21 OCT 2018 AT 14:23 ET Pastor Doug Pagitt, the executive director of Vote Common Good, on Sunday published an op-ed in USA Today encouraging fellow an evangelical Christians to rethink their support of Trump, warning they “are trading their moral core for anti-abortion gains.” “Religious leaders have given up moral ground at every renewed show of support for this administration and Congress,” Pagitt warned calling their support of policies like family separation or the appointment of Justice Brett Kavanaugh “antithetical to what Jesus preached.”
Pagitt explained that many evangelicals have fallen in line for one reason and one reason only: abortion.“The Republican Party has used the issue of abortion as a tool to manipulate religious leaders across the country,” Pagitt wrote. “These leaders’ highest concern is self-preservation. They fear God’s wrath and want impunity. But in their fear, they have become blinded and desensitized to all other injustices and inhumanities: children separated from parents, refugees refused safety, women denigrated and abused, and health care denied to the vulnerable.”“These conservative leaders are willing, at all costs, to make a moral trade — anti-abortion laws and court decisions in exchange for basic human dignity,” Pagitt explained, noting leaders like Franklin Graham turned “a blind eye to women who raised accusations against Kavanaugh.” “Many of us are shocked by Republicans’ unwillingness to challenge this bullying administration,” Pagitt wrote. “We are shocked to find ourselves aligned with a party that supports abusers. Some of us have voted Republican most of our lives and find ourselves unable to continue.”
Pagitt, who noted that oftentimes evangelism relates to Republicanism, warned his fellow Christians against blindly supporting the GOP.“With the midterms just a couple of weeks away, we face a critical juncture in our country: restore some power to those who would govern with compassion, or continue ceding moral ground for the sake of abortion,” Pagitt wondered. www.rawstory.com/2018/10/evangelist-scalds-fellow-pastors-abandoning-moral-core-support-trump-gop-brutal-op-ed/ |
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Post by cade387 on Sept 28, 2019 10:34:54 GMT
I disagree. I think it’s based on the pro life- anti abortion beliefs. Not racism I don’t know if I completely agree with the article above but I also don’t agree with this. Trump is not pro-life nor is he anti-abortion. He is willing to go along with things to feed his narcissistic personality though and that is what makes me convinced that the religious folks who go along with him holding their noses are really just selling their souls to the devil. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 28, 2019 11:51:12 GMT
I disagree. I think it’s based on the pro life- anti abortion beliefs. Not racism This. While there certainly are some that are racist, everything I hear is about pro-life things he has pushed for and religious freedom things that the media doesn't bother to cover because it doesn't fit their narrative. I know people that are strong Trump supporters regardless of what he does or says and I just don't get it. I can't vote for a guy who acts the way he does and says the things he says, but I know people that are willing to overlook those things because they see positive things that he is getting done. I know of a lot of "evangelicals" that think Trump is terrible but the media pushes the idea that all support him. This writer lost credibility for me when she wrote "Evangelicals, in religious terminology, believe that Jesus Christ is the savior of humanity." She doesn't understand what evangelicals are or what they believe. And honestly, there are a lot of churches that fall under what has been considered to be evangelical that are trying to distance themselves from the term because the "evangelicals" have strayed so far away from a solid Biblical foundation. There is a HUGE difference between all the churches that traditionally have been considered "evangelical" and the gap is getting wider. A Pentecostal church is vastly different and has very little in common as far as beliefs with a Reformed Baptist church even though traditionally both would be considered evangelical. Which "religious freedom things" are you/the people you know referring to? |
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Post by roberta on Sept 28, 2019 12:28:44 GMT
The pro-trumpers that I know well are conservative Republicans that are adamantly “pro-life”. They are Catholic not evangelicals. They basically voted one issue. His political support for anti-abortion issues has given them a reason to delude themselves that he is “pro-life”. They have bought into all the conservative lies and believe the conservative press and no so called liberal press regardless of how absurd the lies are. It breaks my heart.
I do know evangelicals and I agree that most of them are racist.
What was said in the article about the racist history of the movement makes sense to me. I strongly agree that they are fearful of losing power and no longer being in the majority. Fear does crazy things to the brain. The higher functions of rational and logical reasoning go out the window. Only those who are self-aware and working hard to be open can overcome that fear.
I’m interested to read more about this. OP - thank you for the article.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 28, 2019 14:42:59 GMT
This writer lost credibility for me when she wrote "Evangelicals, in religious terminology, believe that Jesus Christ is the savior of humanity." She doesn't understand what evangelicals are or what they believe. It is an opinion piece and I posted that at the top, I also included the author's info that was provided with it. Some Evangelicals are claiming that trump was sent by God. They are pro-birth, certainly NOT pro-life. |
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Post by alsomsknit on Sept 29, 2019 13:10:30 GMT
The author is correct. Trump is a racist asshole. He spewed racist rhetoric through his campaign, continuing through his presidency.
Mexicans are rapists. The Muslim ban. Caging human being as if they are animals. They aren’t given the necessities because they aren’t human in his racist eyes.
Someone posted a piece on FB about why they vote, support, feel Trump is doing a great job, and will vote for him in 2020. The example used was their house being infested with raccoons they couldn’t get rid of. Could using raccoons be any more racist?
Hitler had people convinced the Jews were vermin. Since Trump is a fan, it is easy to say he is using Hitler’s play book. This is how millions of people, Jews and others, were rounded up and murdered in Nazi Germany and the people let it happen.
So, it is no big deal that this administration is caging people and not caring for them. They aren’t even human in their eyes. Therefore, it isn’t immoral to their belief system.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Sept 29, 2019 15:33:43 GMT
Virtually all of the people I know who blindly and vocally support Trump are racist. With some it’s pretty blatant and for others it simmers just under the surface but it’s still there.  ETA: They are *all* Catholics, BTW. |
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scrappinmama
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Post by scrappinmama on Sept 29, 2019 15:40:51 GMT
I disagree. I think it’s based on the pro life- anti abortion beliefs. Not racism I think it’s both. There is a reason white supremacy is on the rise, and hate acts are on the rise. eta: Even if it was only the one issue, how does a true Christian separate their support of restrictive abortion laws from the obvious racism of his administration? From the hell and inhumane treatment people he is creating at the border? How do they, in their minds and hearts, justify this because of his anti-abortion agenda? How do they determine which life is more important? I agree. While their anti-abortion stance may have swayed them to vote for Trump, their continued support says that they are ok with his racist agenda. If they stand by and support, the message is clear. They are just fine with it. Everything that Trump does stands in complete opposition of the teachings of Jesus Christ. |
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Post by quinlove on Sept 29, 2019 16:10:31 GMT
I disagree. I think it’s based on the pro life- anti abortion beliefs. Not racism I don’t know if I completely agree with the article above but I also don’t agree with this. Trump is not pro-life nor is he anti-abortion. He is willing to go along with things to feed his narcissistic personality though and that is what makes me convinced that the religious folks who go along with him holding their noses are really just selling their souls to the devil. They’re not selling their souls, they are actually *giving* money to the devil. What they get in return is The Win. Which, of course, is hollow. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 5:26:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 5:27:36 GMT
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TheOtherMeg
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Apr 17, 2020 6:30:12 GMT
I think they use abortion as the "acceptable" reason to be for the Trump/Republican/Evangelical agenda, and they are *perfectly* happy with the racism that gets "accidentally" mixed in by the (no-so) fringe.
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Post by Merge on Apr 17, 2020 9:23:34 GMT
Virtually all of the people I know who blindly and vocally support Trump are racist. With some it’s pretty blatant and for others it simmers just under the surface but it’s still there. ETA: They are *all* Catholics, BTW. You must know my extended family! 😉 |
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Dallie
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Post by Dallie on Apr 17, 2020 10:39:00 GMT
The people I know who espouse Christianity and Trump do so because of racism, particularly against non-white immigrants. It is fascinating how deep the hatred of Mexicans is here when there are almost no Mexicans.
It is worth noting that when anti abortion laws were first passed in the late nineteenth century it was because of fears of "race suicide". the perception was that non-white immigrants (Italians, Asians) were immigrating in such numbers that white native born Americans were going to be in the minority. Roe v. Wade overturned those very laws.
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 17, 2020 11:03:13 GMT
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psiluvu
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Post by psiluvu on Apr 17, 2020 12:44:58 GMT
Virtually all of the people I know who blindly and vocally support Trump are racist. With some it’s pretty blatant and for others it simmers just under the surface but it’s still there. ETA: They are *all* Catholics, BTW. You must know my extended family! 😉 And mine. I recently had to advise one of my ultra catholic cousins on facebook that "you know you can't actually vote for him, you are Canadian" |
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Post by coaliesquirrel on Apr 17, 2020 13:05:01 GMT
It's interesting to me that so many are saying the pro-Trump people they know are Catholic. Our primary social circle is almost entirely Irish/Irish-American Catholic, and of that group, there's literally only one single person out of a hundred or more that is a Trump supporter. And yes, I'm pretty sure there aren't lots more quiet ones, because the rest post anti-Trump stuff on their FB frequently.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 13:08:38 GMT
"Politics is a transactional game, and presidents don’t need to be moral to be effective. While much has been made of the hypocrisy of Trump’s Christian supporters, these “values voters” who’d once gone apoplectic over Bill Clinton’s indiscretions and now capitulated to the most immoral president in living memory, the meeting at Trump Tower shows the logical framing of the argument that would lead a certain type of Christian to vote for Trump. “I don’t think Trump changed after that meeting,” Jeffress tells Rolling Stone. “But I know some of those in the room did. Never, never have evangelicals had the access to the president that they have under President Trump.”... The fervent embrace of Trump seemed not just expedient, but something more insidious. If Donald Trump was to be its standard-bearer, was something in American Christianity profoundly broken? The answer to that question mattered profoundly to me.... What constituted that decline, in Falwell’s mind, was the 1971 case Green v. Connally, which had determined that “racially discriminatory private schools are not entitled to the federal tax exemption.” Falwell had founded just such an institution, Lynchburg Christian School, and believing in his God-given American right to exclude African Americans...Weyrich’s genius lay in recognizing that he was unlikely to organize a mass movement around the defense of racial segregation,” argues Randall Balmer, an Episcopal priest and historian of American religion at Dartmouth College. “That would be a tough sell. With a sleight of hand, he recast the issue as a defense of religious liberty.”...
What convinced Christians of that most compellingly, folding evangelicals into Weyrich’s voting bloc once and for all, was a 1979 movie series called Whatever Happened to the Human Race? Made by pastor Frances Schaeffer and future Surgeon General C. Everett Koop, the films (and accompanying book) argued that abortion was infanticide. “The films changed everything,” says Thornbury. “They made people think that the government was coming after them. They began to see the political left as being the church of secular humanism. So, ‘If we’re going to protect our Christian heritage in America, then we’re going to have to play ball with the Republicans.’ ...
But I know that at some point our lessons about God’s love became peppered with the idea that we were engaged in spiritual warfare, inhabiting a world where dark forces were constantly attempting to sever us from the will of God. The devil was real, and he was at work through “gay” Teletubbies ”
Racism, anti-abortion, gays. The holy trifecta of hate in America. Cuz their favorite bronze-age stories tell them so. |
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Post by Really Red on Apr 17, 2020 13:52:36 GMT
I disagree. I think it’s based on the pro life- anti abortion beliefs. Not racism I think it’s both. There is a reason white supremacy is on the rise, and hate acts are on the rise. eta: Even if it was only the one issue, how does a true Christian separate their support of restrictive abortion laws from the obvious racism of his administration? From the hell and inhumane treatment people he is creating at the border? How do they, in their minds and hearts, justify this because of his anti-abortion agenda? How do they determine which life is more important? I agree. I think it is ostensibly the abortion, but it is followed by the "keep America for the whites" beliefs that we see/hear over and over again from Trump's mouth and is now becoming more and more out in the open from evangelicals. |
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Post by Merge on Apr 17, 2020 14:58:31 GMT
It's interesting to me that so many are saying the pro-Trump people they know are Catholic. Our primary social circle is almost entirely Irish/Irish-American Catholic, and of that group, there's literally only one single person out of a hundred or more that is a Trump supporter. And yes, I'm pretty sure there aren't lots more quiet ones, because the rest post anti-Trump stuff on their FB frequently. IME the Boston and Chicago Irish Catholic communities, often Jesuit-educated, are pretty liberal. My mom had no good opinion of the Jesuits or liberal Catholics growing up. Loosey goosey "cafeteria Catholics" she called them. There's a whole other side of the church that includes ultra-conservative folks who adhere strictly to the church's guidelines on things like birth control and consider missing mass a mortal sin. They send their high school kids in buses to the March for Life, but oppose social safety nets and want to send immigrants back where they came from, and still give the side eye to those "womens libbers" who work outside the home except in cases of dire necessity. That's the side of the church I was raised in. (Is anyone watching Mrs. America on F/X or Hulu? I just started it and my reaction to the things Phyllis Schlafly says is almost PTSD like. My mom and her sisters were big Schlafly fans.) |
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Post by coaliesquirrel on Apr 17, 2020 15:07:28 GMT
It's interesting to me that so many are saying the pro-Trump people they know are Catholic. Our primary social circle is almost entirely Irish/Irish-American Catholic, and of that group, there's literally only one single person out of a hundred or more that is a Trump supporter. And yes, I'm pretty sure there aren't lots more quiet ones, because the rest post anti-Trump stuff on their FB frequently. IME the Boston and Chicago Irish Catholic communities, often Jesuit-educated, are pretty liberal. My mom had no good opinion of the Jesuits or liberal Catholics growing up. Loosey goosey "cafeteria Catholics" she called them. There's a whole other side of the church that includes ultra-conservative folks who adhere strictly to the church's guidelines on things like birth control and consider missing mass a mortal sin. They send their high school kids in buses to the March for Life, but oppose social safety nets and want to send immigrants back where they came from, and still give the side eye to those "womens libbers" who work outside the home except in cases of dire necessity. That's the side of the church I was raised in. (Is anyone watching Mrs. America on F/X or Hulu? I just started it and my reaction to the things Phyllis Schlafly says is almost PTSD like. My mom and her sisters were big Schlafly fans.) Ah. That's not where I am, but that makes sense. As we're not/never have been Catholic, we're not well-versed on all the inner workings & politics of the church. We just know what we've absorbed from being around them.  |
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AmeliaBloomer
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Apr 17, 2020 15:13:30 GMT
I disagree. I think it’s based on the pro life- anti abortion beliefs. Not racism I agree that it’s outwardly based on anti-abortion (and anti same-sex marriage), but plenty of us, regardless of ideology, use some issues as “cover,” either consciously or unconsciously. You’ll never convince me that a good portion of the people who tied themselves in knots justifying their opposition of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama really - down deep - just couldn’t countenance a woman or a black man as president. |
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Post by Tamhugh on Apr 17, 2020 15:25:40 GMT
Most of my Catholic friends despise Trump, but the small handful who don't are absolute single issue voters on abortion.
On the other hand, Evangelical churches are very big in my area. They love him. He has brought Jesus back to the White House after Obama threw him out, etc, etc. One of my co-workers posted a picture on FB of Trump holding hands with Jesus. One of her Evangelical friends replied that it was the most offensive thing she had ever seen as a Christian woman and that gave me the tiniest sliver of hope.
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