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Post by librarylady on Nov 15, 2019 16:25:46 GMT
Our church recently hired an interim minister. He will serve the congregation while the committee continues to search for the permanent minister. The interim is a professional interim (rather like a person who is a permanent substitute teacher--does not want a permanent position).
He has been with us 1 month now.
Tuesday night he attended a committee meeting (this committee meets once per month).
Wednesday morning he cancelled the Bible Study group (meets every Wednesday from 10:30 until noon) because, "I attended the meeting last night and didn't have time to prepare for Bible Study."
My response: WHAT? WHAT??
#1. How hard is it to prepare the Bible study? I would think a minister has basic knowledge and he has known for a week that Bible study would come again on Wednesday AM.
2. If he gets a call on Saturday evening and has to meet a member about a personal event, does he plan to cancel his Sunday sermon? 3. Who cancels a business event/meeting because he/she was out until 9:30 the night before?
4. Perhaps we have now learned why he is only doing the temporary assignments.
Am I out of line with my thinking?
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Post by mrssmith on Nov 15, 2019 16:29:01 GMT
I would have the same questions. Even if he hadn't had time to prepare for Bible study, certainly he is familiar with the Bible and could participate in a discussion about what the group had read. Also - the Bible study starts at 10:30 am. Not exactly first thing in the morning.
What are the expectations set for him? Are the duties outlined somewhere (contract, etc)?
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Post by librarylady on Nov 15, 2019 16:32:17 GMT
I would have the same questions. Even if he hadn't had time to prepare for Bible study, certainly he is familiar with the Bible and could participate in a discussion about what the group had read. Also - the Bible study starts at 10:30 am. Not exactly first thing in the morning. What are the expectations set for him? Are the duties outlined somewhere (contract, etc)? I am going to ask our "head of personnel" those questions. |
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Post by ntsf on Nov 15, 2019 16:51:56 GMT
I think it is a bit mysterious but interim ministers.. esp if they are part time, need to be careful about their hours. people often have full time expectations and it can't be done on a part time job basis. this is something for personnel to deal with. is it a one time thing? or a pattern. going to a study without preparation is not good.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 13:22:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 19:08:42 GMT
Our church recently hired an interim minister. He will serve the congregation while the committee continues to search for the permanent minister. The interim is a professional interim (rather like a person who is a permanent substitute teacher--does not want a permanent position). He has been with us 1 month now. Tuesday night he attended a committee meeting (this committee meets once per month). Wednesday morning he cancelled the Bible Study group (meets every Wednesday from 10:30 until noon) because, "I attended the meeting last night and didn't have time to prepare for Bible Study." My response: WHAT? WHAT?? #1. How hard is it to prepare the Bible study? I would think a minister has basic knowledge and he has known for a week that Bible study would come again on Wednesday AM. 2. If he gets a call on Saturday evening and has to meet a member about a personal event, does he plan to cancel his Sunday sermon? 3. Who cancels a business event/meeting because he/she was out until 9:30 the night before? 4. Perhaps we have now learned why he is only doing the temporary assignments. Am I out of line with my thinking? I don't think you are out of line. I assume, even though he is interim it is a full time paid position. Bible study/lesson prep should be happening well before the night before. |
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Post by rockymtnpea on Nov 15, 2019 20:23:52 GMT
What expectations were laid out for him when he was hired? Seems a bit lame and one would think that he has some prepared lesson plans in the event his normal planning sessions are disrupted.
This post did make me chuckle as he if worked at my place of employment he would maybe lasted a day before he thought he was being overworked. We work a typical day (8-5 pm on a Tuesday or whatever) if it is your week on call and you get called out say at 10:30 pm that same day, you go back into work and work until whatever it is has come to a logical conclusion. This could mean you work through the night and into your shift the next day and then you keep on working. If you are lucky you may get to go home for a couple hours or you just lay your head down at work for a quick nap. And if you get a call out later in the week (not uncommon)you turn around and do it again.(or ask one of your colleagues to help) If you mentioned you worked until 9:30 pm and couldn't possibly make it to a mid morning meeting the next day you would be laughed out of the room. Oh and at my level I do it for free...no overtime for me. (line level however does get time and half compensation)
Perspective.
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Post by ntsf on Nov 15, 2019 20:41:57 GMT
there is a continuing problem with pastors's time not being respected.. often people expect them to be on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week.. and this is not healthy for anyone. pastors have to put boundaries in.. as it is too easy to abuse their time.. so not knowing what it is in the contract, hard to know what is best.
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Mary Kay Lady
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Post by Mary Kay Lady on Nov 15, 2019 20:51:34 GMT
I'm assuming that he was to lead/facilitate the Bible study? I understand that there is some preparation that goes into doing so, but I think it's reasonable to do that preparation ahead of time.
It's not reasonable to disappoint a number of other people (those who participate in the Bible study) just because you cannot or will not prepare in advance for an even that is regularly scheduled.
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Post by nlwilkins on Nov 15, 2019 21:09:40 GMT
So what did he do on Tuesday during the day? He was "off" during the daytime was he not? The Bible study could have been prepared at that time or perhaps on Monday. Perhaps the committee needs to look at his schedule and find out just how he is managing his time and what he is being called upon to do. Add up the hours he is expected to be places and decide if perhaps an assistant pastor is needed.
There are a lot of things involved in being the pastor of a church and a lot of prep time needed for those times. Bible study to be meaningful needs at least a couple of hours prep. Sometimes a pastor is called out unexpectedly, like for a death or a family in crisis.
But no, I don't think you are out of line in your thinking. The only thing that would make me think differently is if he was hired on a part time basis and is holding down another job to help ends meet.
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Post by disneypal on Nov 15, 2019 21:13:36 GMT
It sounds like he was aware of the Bible study (I assume it meets weekly) so he had time to prepare for it. He could have prepared for it before the committee meeting, so to me, the meeting had nothing to do with not being able to prepare for the Bible study - he had a full week from the previous week's study to prepare the lesson.
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smcast
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Post by smcast on Nov 15, 2019 22:05:00 GMT
Why couldn't he prepare Wednesday, before bible study?
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QueenoftheSloths
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Post by QueenoftheSloths on Nov 15, 2019 22:31:50 GMT
Maybe he used the excuse of the meeting rather than saying something like "I didn't have time to prepare for Bible study because the Jones family funeral preparations took more time than I anticipated because they all fought so much"
I'm not a member of a church, but I guess I would see if this was a one time problem or an onging issue. And after all, he is just a temp, and a new one at that. He is still getting used to all of your ways and expectations too.
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Nov 15, 2019 23:42:36 GMT
I agree with ntsf that they should not be expected to work around the clock, and that they do need to have boundaries. But this comes across as poor planning and leaving people dropped somewhat last minute is almost never OK. While he's getting used to the responsibilities with your congregation, I understand he may not be perfect. One time is unfortunate but not a huge deal - however, if this type of thing is a trend for him, that's a problem. |
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Post by annie on Nov 16, 2019 17:43:44 GMT
I assume he's being paid part time money for part time hours.
Does he have a regular job as well?
It's odd. He should have been able to wake up early to prepare for the class. UNLESS he has other employment.
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Post by librarylady on Nov 16, 2019 18:55:08 GMT
The person with the answers was not available this AM when I called her.
Her DH did tell me that minister is full time (as I thought). I'm going to do some more seeking on the answers, but will try to
pose all questions to the head of personnel, and not start some drama in the congregation.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 16, 2019 19:26:30 GMT
If he knows that every Wednesday is bible study, it would concern me that he’s waiting until Tuesday evening to prepare.
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Post by annabella on Nov 16, 2019 21:22:25 GMT
I would politely tell him that the Wednesday bible study is a weekly standing meeting that has never been canceled. And that you hope he will be able to continue to fill the known obligations he has on his calendar.
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Post by 50offscrapper on Nov 17, 2019 7:36:33 GMT
I am not a minister but I can put together a Bible study in a couple of hours.
Are they paying him as a part time person?
And no you don’t get cancel Bible study. Heck, he should have a notebook full of studies if he has been doing this for a while.
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 17, 2019 8:02:08 GMT
I'd assume an interim minister is a temporary full time position, not part time.
I don't think you are out of line in your expectations.
I'm a little stunned that he would cancel a weekly bible study because he attended a monthly committee meeting the night before. Both events would have been on his calendar?!
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peaname
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Post by peaname on Nov 17, 2019 10:54:34 GMT
All you can do is let the higher ups know what happened. Maybe there’s more to the story that he’s not sharing like a chronic illness. We should not have higher expectations of clergy members but we often do. It’s still a job and they regularly do things we don’t see or tally.
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Post by annie on Nov 17, 2019 16:24:27 GMT
I'd assume an interim minister is a temporary full time position, not part time. In the church body I used to be a part of, all interim ministers were part-time. Usually they were guys who had a church of their own, and then they'd take on the church w/o a pastor as a side gig. So I guess it depends on the church body. |
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Post by auntkelly on Nov 17, 2019 17:04:18 GMT
I am not a minister but I can put together a Bible study in a couple of hours. Are they paying him as a part time person? And no you don’t get cancel Bible study. Heck, he should have a notebook full of studies if he has been doing this for a while. I would have also expected a minister to be able to pull off a Bible Study w/out too much preparation. It seems like he could have also asked someone who attends the Bible study regularly to fill in for him. There might be a reasonable explanation as to why the interim pastor cancelled Bible Study. Hopefully, the Head of Personnel will be able to explain. |
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Post by jemali on Nov 17, 2019 19:40:18 GMT
I understand that being a minister is not a Mon-Fri 8-5 job. Does he have a scheduled day off to make up for evening and Sunday hours? A day where there is not a Bible study taking place? I’m surprised he didn’t have a study he had done previously that he could done. Since he is an interim pastor and hasn’t been there long nobody would have known.
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Post by librarylady on Nov 17, 2019 19:46:35 GMT
I asked head of personnel this morning. She said he was full time, but for me to "cool it" as he is new. I think my questions are valid, but I shall sit back and be cool.  Like almost everyone here said, there are so many responses as to why the Bible study should not have been cancelled. |
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Post by mustlovecats on Nov 17, 2019 20:17:30 GMT
I don’t expect a pastor to do bible study prep on his own time. His off day should be his OFF day.
I suppose it could be that he’s lazy and doesn’t really give a crap, has bad time management, etc.
Or it could be that he’s expected to bill part time hours or was overscheduled.
Someone from the Bible study could have offered to step up and host a fellowship hour and a “chat about Jesus” time.
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Post by librarylady on Nov 17, 2019 21:36:08 GMT
Over the years, most of the ministers we have had did not have office hours on Friday and Saturday was considered a day off.
At one time we had a man who selected Saturday and Monday as his days off.
I view it as I did when I was teaching--prep time is done...your choice when that happens.
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Post by annie on Nov 17, 2019 22:24:29 GMT
I asked head of personnel this morning. She said he was full time, but for me to "cool it" as he is new. I think my questions are valid, but I shall sit back and be cool. Like almost everyone here said, there are so many responses as to why the Bible study should not have been cancelled. I suspect....he's lazy. I've known a lot of ministers in my day (was very involved in former church body, clergy relatives, etc...) and there is definitely a faction of pastors who really do not have a lot of drive. I wonder if he's one of those. No reason for that class to be canceled! Your questions are for sure valid. |
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Post by stampinbetsy on Nov 17, 2019 22:55:15 GMT
Over the years, most of the ministers we have had did not have office hours on Friday and Saturday was considered a day off. At one time we had a man who selected Saturday and Monday as his days off. I view it as I did when I was teaching--prep time is done...your choice when that happens. I have worked for a church for the last 23 years. We have had 3 interims that I can recall in that time, and all of them were considered full-time. None of them ever cancelled anything based on whatever they had done the day before. Our ministers have typically taken Friday out of the office, but I'm sure have been called on their days out of the office for whatever emergencies might pop up. Being an interim minister is a hard thing - you are trying to keep the congregation going while a new minister is called. We have actually hired our last 2 interim ministers as the permanent pastor (the first one retired a couple of years ago, took some time off, was called as an interim for another congregation, and has now been hired for that congregation). |
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