muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
Jul 30, 2017 3:38:57 GMT
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Post by muggins on Dec 9, 2019 13:14:03 GMT
I was chatting to my unmarried 46 year old sister recently. She feels that in formal settings being referred to as ‘Miss’ Lastname is sexist, outdated, and uncomfortable. She said her marital status is no ones business and shouldn’t be used when addressing women in general. After all, a man’s marital status isn’t revealed when using Mr, so why should women have this information available to everyone? Particularly as a mature woman she feels she is open to judgement (and occasionally pity and/or enquiries) by others. She will often use Ms. in written communication, but feels awkward correcting people in person once they’ve referred to her as Miss.
I agree with her. I think it’s time we stopped addressing women in a way that reveals their relationship to a man.
Having said that I was in a gift shop yesterday and I saw tons of ‘bride to be’ items with ‘Miss to Mrs’ type phrases on them, so clearly some women see the change of address as something positive.
What say the peas? Should a woman’s relationship to a man (or not) be used to address her?
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QueenoftheSloths
Drama Llama
Member Since January 2004, 2,698 forum posts PeaNut Number: 122614 PeaBoard Title: StuckOnPeas
Posts: 5,955
Jun 26, 2014 0:29:24 GMT
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Post by QueenoftheSloths on Dec 9, 2019 13:25:49 GMT
People should introduce themselves with the title they want people to use. Miss, Mrs, Ms, Doctor, Queen etc. I can't remember the last time I was addressed that way though. It seems like people generally just use first names.
I take it back, I do remember the last time I was given a title. I sent the Queen a Christmas card last year, and I just signed it first name last name. The response was addressed to Miss first name last name. I'm actually a Mrs, but I didn't mind because it was a response from the Queen!
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schizo319
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,030
Jun 28, 2014 0:26:58 GMT
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Post by schizo319 on Dec 9, 2019 13:28:05 GMT
It might just be me (or maybe where I live), but I can't really tell the difference between Miss and Ms when it's spoken aloud. "Mrs." feels a little antiquated to me, but it doesn't bother me if someone uses it to refer to me. It does grate a little that somehow our marital status needs announcing, but ultimately, it's not on the short list of sexist BS that I worry about.
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compeateropeator
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,002
Member is Online
Jun 26, 2014 23:10:56 GMT
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Post by compeateropeator on Dec 9, 2019 13:44:32 GMT
Well I am an old “Miss” and my preference would be to not have it used. But truthfully it really doesn’t matter and it would never offend me.
I use (and prefer) a persons first name and last name only. I am sure that is annoying or offensive to some also. I don’t think you can please everyone. If I personally know that someone prefers one way over the other I will try to accommodate that.
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kelly8875
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,391
Location: Lost in my supplies...
Oct 26, 2014 17:02:56 GMT
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Post by kelly8875 on Dec 9, 2019 13:48:18 GMT
I don’t hear the difference verbally much between Ms and Miss. I consider myself Ms, but don’t consider it my marital status if someone uses it.
If I’m in a restaurant and need to get the attention of our waitress I will say “excuse me Miss” if her back is turned. And if it’s a waiter, I say “excuse me Sir”. Neither of those are referencing their marital status, just a polite greeting. Sometimes we just need a way to greet people...
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:48:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 13:52:23 GMT
I hate Miss and Mrs. If someone uses either (which is rare these days), I correct it to 'Ms.'
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Post by Crack-a-lackin on Dec 9, 2019 13:58:20 GMT
I fully agree with your sister. Fortunately I almost never need to introduce or address anyone so formally and just use first and last name.
For those who don’t hear a difference, are you pronouncing it Miss and Mizz?
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Post by Susie_Homemaker on Dec 9, 2019 13:59:22 GMT
I hate Miss and Mrs. If someone uses either (which is rare these days), I correct it to 'Ms.' If it's spoken how do you know the difference?
I think of Miss as a little girl and Ms. can be married or unmarried.
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Post by mom on Dec 9, 2019 14:01:05 GMT
I don’t hear the difference verbally much between Ms and Miss. I consider myself Ms, but don’t consider it my marital status if someone uses it.
If I’m in a restaurant and need to get the attention of our waitress I will say “excuse me Miss” if her back is turned. And if it’s a waiter, I say “excuse me Sir”. Neither of those are referencing their marital status, just a polite greeting. Sometimes we just need a way to greet people... I agree. I don't really care what they use to address me as I don't associate it with my martial status. I don't wear my wedding rings most of the time, so some wont even realize I am married unless they actually know me. I am also fine if they use my first name. Short of being called an ugly name, it wouldn't even register on my radar.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:48:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 14:02:34 GMT
To me Miss and Ms tend to sound the same. I go with the assumption they said Ms. I hear ma'am a lot which I don't mind. It is polite, formal and doesn't indicate a presumed marital status or age.
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Post by ScrapbookMyLife on Dec 9, 2019 14:05:21 GMT
I am in my mid 50's.
I don't mind being called Miss or Ma'am.
I don't like being called sweetie, honey, dearie, sweetheart, princess, young lady, etc... by a complete strangers (food server, receptionist, cashier, bank teller, random people whose path I cross, etc...).
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Post by coaliesquirrel on Dec 9, 2019 14:11:35 GMT
I agree that marital status is irrelevant, so I'd much rather Ms. for all females above 18 or so. However, what REALLY chaps my hide is the outdated form Mrs. Husbandfirst Husbandsecond (e.g. Mrs. Bob Smith). I have my own name, thank you very much, and my existance isn't tied up in my spouse. The university I (and NOT DH) attended does this in its fundraising mailings, and it ticks me off so much I don't donate when I otherwise would.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:48:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 14:21:36 GMT
I hate Miss and Mrs. If someone uses either (which is rare these days), I correct it to 'Ms.' If it's spoken how do you know the difference?
I think of Miss as a little girl and Ms. can be married or unmarried.
One sounds like and 's' and one sounds like a 'z'.
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rickmer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,123
Jul 1, 2014 20:20:18 GMT
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Post by rickmer on Dec 9, 2019 14:32:56 GMT
i agree with your sister.
i *hate* being called mrs (getting divorced so i guess that will likely dry up for the most part).
But i find it super-annoying when filling out something online, i have to select how i was to be addressed and the only options are: -Mr -Mrs -Miss -Dr
And you have to enter something in there/can't skip past it.
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Post by gryroagain on Dec 9, 2019 14:50:49 GMT
I’ve been correcting people to Ms since I got married at 25, Mrs Gryroagain is my mom as I kept my name, I’m Ms Gryroagain. I am not Mrs HLastname, that’s his mom.
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Post by LisaDV on Dec 9, 2019 15:10:43 GMT
When I was young I think I got a lot of miss but now only older people use miss on me. I always used Ms. when needed to check a box on a form if available. I will get a miss if it's like kelly8875 was using, as a form of getting ones attention while out. I prefer you just use my name, but don't get offended by other forms of address. It's not my personal hill, but I could see it being frustrating for someone and annoying to always correct, but I do think she should correct people to use the Ms.
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Post by myshelly on Dec 9, 2019 15:25:06 GMT
When someone refers to her verbally, how is there a difference between Ms. and Miss? There’s no difference to me.
I don’t believe in Mrs. and will not stand for anyone to refer to me that way or refer to anyone else that way.
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Post by Linda on Dec 9, 2019 15:25:21 GMT
I think many people don't make much of a verbal distinction between Ms and Miss so perhaps it would help to assume people are saying Ms (even if perhaps they're not). I don't see anything wrong with her correcting people - it's not any different, imo, than correcting a mistaken name.
I generally assume Ms. for those women whose preference I don't know and who are roughly college-age to retirement age-ish. Younger, I feel Miss is most appropriate and those I know in their 70s and 80s who have never married, use Miss not Ms (and are sometimes quite blunt about it). If someone has made their preference known, then I use whatever title they prefer (be it Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, Mx, Dr, Professor etc...)
In reality - I've found that titles tend to be used in writing more often than in speech - around here everyone is Mr. Firstname or Mrs/Miss/Ms (and it all SOUNDS the same and closest to how I would say Miss) firstname except for teachers (who are both called Mr/Miss/Mrs surname and use that also with parents), doctors (who go by Dr surname but often use firstnames) and priests/ministers (who are Father Firstname or Rev Firstname or Rev Lastname)
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Post by busy on Dec 9, 2019 15:28:08 GMT
Ms. sounds like Miz, not Miss.
Either way, I think we should standardize on Ms. for all women and have thought so for decades. There is no reason our marital status needs to be disclosed in our name. Ridiculous.
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Post by underwatermama on Dec 9, 2019 15:34:54 GMT
I work in a school office. I address all the female teachers as Ms. I don't have the time or interest in learning all of their marital statuses or preferences.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Dec 9, 2019 16:17:11 GMT
I’m married and have the same last name as DH. I prefer Ms. over Mrs. but I don’t get all bent over it. About the only people who call me Mrs. are DD’s friends. I don’t wear my wedding rings anymore because they don’t fit. I would rather be mistaken as a Miss than a Ma’am, but I’ve reached the age where I’m pretty sure that ship has sailed, LOL.
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Post by scrapmaven on Dec 9, 2019 16:38:27 GMT
I'm married and like being Mrs. Though, I normally ask people to call me by my first name. If I were single I would use Ms. Miss seems very young to me.
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Post by Susie_Homemaker on Dec 9, 2019 16:43:54 GMT
I would rather be mistaken as a Miss than a Ma’am, but I’ve reached the age where I’m pretty sure that ship has sailed, LOL. In the south we call everyone ma'am. Even kids- as in "no ma'am you may not do that!" said to a small child. It's not exclusively an age thing here.
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Post by pjaye on Dec 9, 2019 17:01:30 GMT
I find that Ma'am gets used quite a lot now. I didn't used to like it as I thought it sounded strange, but I've got used to it and don't mind it any more. Plus it makes no inference about your relationships or your age...although it isn't gender neutral.
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Post by miominmio on Dec 9, 2019 17:07:28 GMT
Cultural differences are fascinating. The Norwegian equivialents went out of use in the fifties.
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Post by bc2ca on Dec 9, 2019 17:29:28 GMT
I've used Ms my whole adult life (since the late 70s), whether married or single. The majority of professional women I've worked with use Ms if a title/prefix is required.
I didn't start using DH's last name until after we'd been married a few years. My marital status and/or lastname had no impact on my title/prefix.
I've only seen Miss used by friends who don't like their kids using a female adult's first name, so their kids will call me "Miss bc2ca". Miss used this way is definitely not indicating my marital status.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:48:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 17:36:47 GMT
If it's spoken how do you know the difference?
I think of Miss as a little girl and Ms. can be married or unmarried.
One sounds like and 's' and one sounds like a 'z'. Around here there isn't a sound differentiation. The sound is more half way between s and z. Not as soft has s but not as hard as z.
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Post by Crack-a-lackin on Dec 9, 2019 17:44:37 GMT
Cultural differences are fascinating. The Norwegian equivialents went out of use in the fifties. When you fill out a form do you have boxes to check for Mr, Mrs, Ms, Miss? I am hoping this goes away soon because it is completely unnecessary. I’m sure it will be replaced with your pronoun choice, but that doesn’t bother me because they’re attempting to be inclusive.
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Post by miominmio on Dec 9, 2019 17:47:14 GMT
Cultural differences are fascinating. The Norwegian equivialents went out of use in the fifties. When you fill out a form do you have boxes to check for Mr, Mrs, Ms, Miss? I am hoping this goes away soon because it is completely unnecessary. I’m sure it will be replaced with your pronoun choice, but that doesn’t bother me because they’re attempting to be inclusive. No👍🏻
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,664
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on Dec 9, 2019 18:47:37 GMT
I don't like being called sweetie, honey, dearie, sweetheart, princess, young lady, etc... by a complete strangers (food server, receptionist, cashier, bank teller, random people whose path I cross, etc...). There's a young lady, probably in her early 20s, who works in a local coffee shop and she calls everyone beautiful, lovely, love, etc. I hate it! Please just call me ma'am.
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