|
Post by claudia123 on Dec 29, 2020 15:20:18 GMT
Then isnt the example in the op discrimination as they weren't able to be offered a reasonable accommodation and were instead asked to leave? No. The OCR and the courts have repeatedly said that being allowed to enter a business maskless is NOT a reasonable accommodation and businesses are therefore not required to do it. Fair enough, that's not the case in the UK which is why I'm finding it difficult to wrap my head around i guess. Though masks are in theory compulsory, but people with certain conditions are exempt from wearing them and therefore businesses cant stop people without masks from entering. Mask compliance is fairly high here in my experience and I'm more comfortable with exemptions for disabilities as i feel the harms of further isolation of already vunerable people out way the benifits of a small increase in mask compliance. I get why others feel differently, I'm just suprised this is legal.
|
|
muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
Jul 30, 2017 3:38:57 GMT
|
Post by muggins on Dec 29, 2020 15:33:33 GMT
No. The OCR and the courts have repeatedly said that being allowed to enter a business maskless is NOT a reasonable accommodation and businesses are therefore not required to do it. Fair enough, that's not the case in the UK which is why I'm finding it difficult to wrap my head around i guess. Though masks are in theory compulsory, but people with certain conditions are exempt from wearing them and therefore businesses cant stop people without masks from entering. Mask compliance is fairly high here in my experience and I'm more comfortable with exemptions for disabilities as i feel the harms of further isolation of already vunerable people out way the benifits of a small increase in mask compliance. I get why others feel differently, I'm just suprised this is legal. My daughter lives in the U.K. and works in a small shop. She said people are taking the piss by pretending to be medically exempt from wearing a mask simply because they don’t want to wear one. Employees are not allowed to question them or refuse to serve them. One woman said she was exempt because she was pregnant!! She sees a lot of elderly people without masks, and most people wear them under their nose. She’s constantly wiping down the plexiglass barrier as so many people cough on it. My point is, if people are allowed to get away with not complying, they will. And everyone continues to suffer because of it.
|
|
|
Post by claudia123 on Dec 29, 2020 15:44:48 GMT
Fair enough, that's not the case in the UK which is why I'm finding it difficult to wrap my head around i guess. Though masks are in theory compulsory, but people with certain conditions are exempt from wearing them and therefore businesses cant stop people without masks from entering. Mask compliance is fairly high here in my experience and I'm more comfortable with exemptions for disabilities as i feel the harms of further isolation of already vunerable people out way the benifits of a small increase in mask compliance. I get why others feel differently, I'm just suprised this is legal. My daughter lives in the U.K. and works in a small shop. She said people are taking the piss by pretending to be medically exempt from wearing a mask simply because they don’t want to wear one. Employees are not allowed to question them or refuse to serve them. One woman said she was exempt because she was pregnant!! She sees a lot of elderly people without masks, and most people wear them under their nose. She’s constantly wiping down the plexiglass barrier as so many people cough on it. My point is, if people are allowed to get away with not complying, they will. And everyone continues to suffer because of it. I get your point, and as i travel on the bus for work i do see people not wearing masks that probably aren't exempt which is annoying. However i work with adults with learning disabilities who live independently, but need support and many of them cant wear a mask for a variety of reasons. Overall I'm glad they are at least still able to go to the supermarket or buy a lottery ticket etc, even though they cant wear a mask. I just dont think the data on mask usage shows enough of a benefit for masks in places like supermarkets to justify the prevention of access to diabled people. Just because some people will take the piss doesnt mean people who are genuinely unable to wear masks should be kept at home when others are allowed out imo.
|
|
|
Post by phoenixcov on Dec 29, 2020 16:07:05 GMT
I could go out without a mask but there is no way that I will do. The rules are there for a reason and I will not be a Karen about it to get my own way. I totally disagree with people in charge of the health of disabled people deciding to risk the health of them and others. Do you want to wait until more data comes in telling us that wearing masks helps? It will be to late to do so then wan`t it?
|
|
|
Post by claudia123 on Dec 29, 2020 16:25:00 GMT
I could go out without a mask but there is no way that I will do. The rules are there for a reason and I will not be a Karen about it to get my own way. I totally disagree with people in charge of the health of disabled people deciding to risk the health of them and others. Go you want to wait until more data comes in telling us that wearing masks helps? It will be to late to do so then wan`t it? I'm not "in charge" of the health of the people i support, we enable them to make their own decisions where possible, they aren't children. We've had 6 months of mandatory masks in the UK and i feel there is sufficient data now to see that while masks can be of benifit if used correctly, they are not so effective as to justify blanket bans on people who can't wear them.
|
|
|
Post by tracyarts on Dec 29, 2020 16:33:07 GMT
Where I live, the law states that disabled persons may not be accommodated if the only reasonable accommodation available endangers other people.
Businesses do not have to grant access to anyone who is not properly wearing a mask. Period. There is no guarantee of access to a private business under disability rights guidelines. The only thing disabled people are entitled to is to ask for a reasonable accommodation. In some situations this is simply not possible to grant.
There are no possible reasonable accommodations in this situation. The disabled person is not entitled to expose theater employees to infection risk during a pandemic. The theater owners are not obligated to consent to an exposure event on their property.
It's unfortunate that we cannot always have what we would wish to have. But disability does not override that fact of life.
|
|
|
Post by epeanymous on Dec 29, 2020 16:35:29 GMT
Legit cannot imagine deciding that the hill I wanted to die on was risking the health of my disabled child to see a movie in a theater.
I don’t think this is discrimination.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 20:07:43 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2020 16:45:58 GMT
My daughter lives in the U.K. and works in a small shop. She said people are taking the piss by pretending to be medically exempt from wearing a mask simply because they don’t want to wear one. Employees are not allowed to question them or refuse to serve them. One woman said she was exempt because she was pregnant!! She sees a lot of elderly people without masks, and most people wear them under their nose. She’s constantly wiping down the plexiglass barrier as so many people cough on it. My point is, if people are allowed to get away with not complying, they will. And everyone continues to suffer because of it. I get your point, and as i travel on the bus for work i do see people not wearing masks that probably aren't exempt which is annoying. However i work with adults with learning disabilities who live independently, but need support and many of them cant wear a mask for a variety of reasons. Overall I'm glad they are at least still able to go to the supermarket or buy a lottery ticket etc, even though they cant wear a mask. I just dont think the data on mask usage shows enough of a benefit for masks in places like supermarkets to justify the prevention of access to diabled people. Just because some people will take the piss doesnt mean people who are genuinely unable to wear masks should be kept at home when others are allowed out imo. The the transport operator/driver is at fault for letting them on. It quite clearly says on the Gov website The police can take measures if members of the public do not comply with this law without a valid exemption and transport operators can deny access to their public transport services if a passenger is not wearing a face covering, or direct them to wear one or leave a service.
If necessary the police and Transport for London (TfL) officers have enforcement powers, I'm really surprised that you take them to the supermarkets knowing that they are medically unable to wear a mask. Yet, you take the risk with their health by exposing them in a supermarket. Unfortunately the people that are medically vulnerable do have their lives curtailed by this virus, for their own good and not for anyone else's. And yes, masks do lower the risk that they are exposed to. Not on their own but added to the other precautions one should take. With that in mind I think it's irresponsible not to wear one unless it truly is a problem for someone and not just a choice.
|
|
|
Post by claudia123 on Dec 29, 2020 16:46:53 GMT
Legit cannot imagine deciding that the hill I wanted to die on was risking the health of my disabled child to see a movie in a theater. I don’t think this is discrimination. Its not just about children, some intellectually disabled adults have the capacity to decide they want to see a movie (which is fair enough if cinemas are open, they aren't here) but may have complex needs meaning they cant wear a mask. I do think their access to the same places as non disabled is a hill worth dying on tbh, as i feel like many disabled people are becoming totally isolated and have no independence left. If they cant go to a store for example, they dont get to chose what they eat in the same way they normally would, especially if their disabiloty makes online shopping impossible. Similarly they cant chose a new outfit, or even pick up their own prescriptions. I just dont feel that can be justified, it seem like the rights of diabled people only matter when ilits convient/easy.
|
|
|
Post by claudia123 on Dec 29, 2020 16:49:07 GMT
I get your point, and as i travel on the bus for work i do see people not wearing masks that probably aren't exempt which is annoying. However i work with adults with learning disabilities who live independently, but need support and many of them cant wear a mask for a variety of reasons. Overall I'm glad they are at least still able to go to the supermarket or buy a lottery ticket etc, even though they cant wear a mask. I just dont think the data on mask usage shows enough of a benefit for masks in places like supermarkets to justify the prevention of access to diabled people. Just because some people will take the piss doesnt mean people who are genuinely unable to wear masks should be kept at home when others are allowed out imo. The the transport operator/driver is at fault for letting them on. It quite clearly says on the Gov website The police can take measures if members of the public do not comply with this law without a valid exemption and transport operators can deny access to their public transport services if a passenger is not wearing a face covering, or direct them to wear one or leave a service.
If necessary the police and Transport for London (TfL) officers have enforcement powers, I'm really surprised that you take them to the supermarkets knowing that they are medically unable to wear a mask. Yet, you take the risk with their health by exposing them in a supermarket. Unfortunately the people that are medically vulnerable do have their lives curtailed by this virus, for their own good and not for anyone else's. And yes, masks do lower the risk that they are exposed to. Not on their own but added to the other precautions one should take. With that in mind I think it's irresponsible not to wear one unless it truly is a problem for someone and not just a choice. They often aren't medically vunerable, intellectual disability doesnt always make someone vunerable to covid. And again with "for their own good", these people aren't children they are adults and are able to make their own desicions with support and if they want to risk going to the supermarket, as adults they have the right to make that choice.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Dec 29, 2020 16:59:04 GMT
The the transport operator/driver is at fault for letting them on. It quite clearly says on the Gov website The police can take measures if members of the public do not comply with this law without a valid exemption and transport operators can deny access to their public transport services if a passenger is not wearing a face covering, or direct them to wear one or leave a service.
If necessary the police and Transport for London (TfL) officers have enforcement powers, I'm really surprised that you take them to the supermarkets knowing that they are medically unable to wear a mask. Yet, you take the risk with their health by exposing them in a supermarket. Unfortunately the people that are medically vulnerable do have their lives curtailed by this virus, for their own good and not for anyone else's. And yes, masks do lower the risk that they are exposed to. Not on their own but added to the other precautions one should take. With that in mind I think it's irresponsible not to wear one unless it truly is a problem for someone and not just a choice. They often aren't medically vunerable, intellectual disability doesnt always make someone vunerable to covid. And again with "for their own good", these people aren't children they are adults and are able to make their own desicions with support and if they want to risk going to the supermarket, as adults they have the right to make that choice. But the risk isn’t to the non-mask wearer, the risk is to everyone else who is forced to be around the person not wearing a mask. The non-mask wearer doesn’t get to simply choose to expose the rest of the world to their potentially contaminated droplets because they don’t want to wear a mask. If the risk was to the non-mask wearer, your arguments might make some sense, although as the mother of 2 young adults with autism, one who is severe and intellectually disabled, I disagree with some of your statements about what they are capable and incapable of. But, and this is the main point, the person NOT WEARING A MASK puts EVERYONE they come in contact with, at risk for COVID. Businesses should not be forced to put the health of their compliant customers at risk. There is a heartbreaking story here of a 25 yo young adult with autism who was functional enough to work at a deli. He *always* wore his mask at work. He asked continually why customers at the deli weren’t wearing masks. He died of COVID this week. Here is coverage in one of your newspapers: metro.co.uk/2020/12/28/autistic-deli-worker-25-frightened-by-maskless-customers-dies-covid-13816251/
|
|
|
Post by claudia123 on Dec 29, 2020 17:04:02 GMT
They often aren't medically vunerable, intellectual disability doesnt always make someone vunerable to covid. And again with "for their own good", these people aren't children they are adults and are able to make their own desicions with support and if they want to risk going to the supermarket, as adults they have the right to make that choice. But the risk isn’t to the non-mask wearer, the risk is to everyone else who is forced to be around the person not wearing a mask. The non-mask wearer doesn’t get to simply choose to expose the rest of the world to their potentially contaminated droplets because they don’t want to wear a mask. If the risk was to the non-mask wearer, your arguments might make some sense, although as the mother of 2 young adults with autism, one who is severe and intellectually disabled, I disagree with some of your statements about what they are capable and incapable of. But, and this is the main point, the person NOT WEARING A MASK puts EVERYONE they come in contact with, at risk for COVID. Businesses should not be forced to put the health of their compliant customers at risk. There is a heartbreaking story here of a 25 yo young adult with autism who was functional enough to work at a deli. He *always* wore his mask at work. He asked continually why customers at the deli weren’t wearing masks. He died of COVID this week. Here is coverage in one of your newspapers: metro.co.uk/2020/12/28/autistic-deli-worker-25-frightened-by-maskless-customers-dies-covid-13816251/Im not saying every person with a learning disability haas capacity, just that most of the people i support (who live independently) do have that ability. I think its a cultural difference, the laws in the UK support my view point, the ones in America yours. And i do understand the risks, i just think we have to be very careful about how much we take away from disabldd peope because they may pose a risk to others, otherwise disabled people will become even more shunned and segregated than they already are, in order to keep others safe.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Dec 29, 2020 18:06:52 GMT
But the risk isn’t to the non-mask wearer, the risk is to everyone else who is forced to be around the person not wearing a mask. The non-mask wearer doesn’t get to simply choose to expose the rest of the world to their potentially contaminated droplets because they don’t want to wear a mask. If the risk was to the non-mask wearer, your arguments might make some sense, although as the mother of 2 young adults with autism, one who is severe and intellectually disabled, I disagree with some of your statements about what they are capable and incapable of. But, and this is the main point, the person NOT WEARING A MASK puts EVERYONE they come in contact with, at risk for COVID. Businesses should not be forced to put the health of their compliant customers at risk. There is a heartbreaking story here of a 25 yo young adult with autism who was functional enough to work at a deli. He *always* wore his mask at work. He asked continually why customers at the deli weren’t wearing masks. He died of COVID this week. Here is coverage in one of your newspapers: metro.co.uk/2020/12/28/autistic-deli-worker-25-frightened-by-maskless-customers-dies-covid-13816251/Im not saying every person with a learning disability haas capacity, just that most of the people i support (who live independently) do have that ability. I think its a cultural difference, the laws in the UK support my view point, the ones in America yours. And i do understand the risks, i just think we have to be very careful about how much we take away from disabldd peope because they may pose a risk to others, otherwise disabled people will become even more shunned and segregated than they already are, in order to keep others safe. We will have to agree to disagree then: People with disabilities don’t have the right to kill innocent people through potentially exposing them to COVID, in my opinion. Potentially killing scores of people is very different than isolating people with disabilities because they make people psychologically uncomfortable or inconvenienced. I am happy that laws in the USA support this view. People with disabilities can wear masks. And, if for some reason they can’t, there are a myriad of ways for them to have social interactions in safe ways during this pandemic. I know. This is my life 24/7. You can have social interactions online - severely disabled non-verbal young adults are able to manage online schooling. There are outdoor events. There is FaceTime on iPads. No, the interactions aren’t the same, but choosing to not wear a mask doesn’t mean that you can’t have safe interactions. And, you know what, social interactions aren’t the same for ANYONE during this pandemic. It sucks. But just because it sucks doesn’t mean someone - with or without disabilities - has the right to be exempt from standing laws and potentially kill people through the spread of COVID.
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Dec 29, 2020 18:17:57 GMT
I’m honestly shocked that anyone is visiting movie theaters right now. That’s one of the last places I’d go at this time. They’re pretty gross even when there’s not a pandemic.
|
|
|
Post by claudia123 on Dec 29, 2020 18:21:26 GMT
Im not saying every person with a learning disability haas capacity, just that most of the people i support (who live independently) do have that ability. I think its a cultural difference, the laws in the UK support my view point, the ones in America yours. And i do understand the risks, i just think we have to be very careful about how much we take away from disabldd peope because they may pose a risk to others, otherwise disabled people will become even more shunned and segregated than they already are, in order to keep others safe. We will have to agree to disagree then: People with disabilities don’t have the right to kill innocent people through potentially exposing them to COVID, in my opinion. Potentially killing scores of people is very different than isolating people with disabilities because they make people psychologically uncomfortable or inconvenienced. I am happy that laws in the USA support this view. People with disabilities can wear masks. And, if for some reason they can’t, there are a myriad of ways for them to have social interactions in safe ways during this pandemic. I know. This is my life 24/7. You can have social interactions online - severely disabled non-verbal young adults are able to manage online schooling. There are outdoor events. There is FaceTime on iPads. No, the interactions aren’t the same, but choosing to not wear a mask doesn’t mean that you can’t have safe interactions. And, you know what, social interactions aren’t the same for ANYONE during this pandemic. It sucks. But just because it sucks doesn’t mean someone - with or without disabilities - has the right to be exempt from standing laws and potentially kill people through the spread of COVID. Yes definitely agree to disagree. I think the way we've started telling people they are killing others if they pass on a virus is ridiculous, it is not a malicious act, it has been happening since the beginning of time. Like i said im not anti mask and always wear one when required but not all people can socialise online. The people i support are not of school age and have had their day centres closed, none that I can think of even have a computer or a phone.
|
|
|
Post by revirdsuba99 on Dec 29, 2020 18:22:44 GMT
I came to say that this young lady has STYLE!! She makes me smile!!
|
|
|
Post by claudia123 on Dec 29, 2020 18:24:25 GMT
I’m honestly shocked that anyone is visiting movie theaters right now. That’s one of the last places I’d go at this time. They’re pretty gross even when there’s not a pandemic. Yeah i don't disagree with this! Cimemas are closed in the UK which i think is sensible, and probably of greater benefit than preventing people unable to wear masks access to the same services as non disabled people.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 20:07:43 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2020 18:24:32 GMT
The the transport operator/driver is at fault for letting them on. It quite clearly says on the Gov website The police can take measures if members of the public do not comply with this law without a valid exemption and transport operators can deny access to their public transport services if a passenger is not wearing a face covering, or direct them to wear one or leave a service.
If necessary the police and Transport for London (TfL) officers have enforcement powers, I'm really surprised that you take them to the supermarkets knowing that they are medically unable to wear a mask. Yet, you take the risk with their health by exposing them in a supermarket. Unfortunately the people that are medically vulnerable do have their lives curtailed by this virus, for their own good and not for anyone else's. And yes, masks do lower the risk that they are exposed to. Not on their own but added to the other precautions one should take. With that in mind I think it's irresponsible not to wear one unless it truly is a problem for someone and not just a choice. They often aren't medically vunerable, intellectual disability doesnt always make someone vunerable to covid. And again with "for their own good", these people aren't children they are adults and are able to make their own desicions with support and if they want to risk going to the supermarket, as adults they have the right to make that choice. But surely the support you are giving them should include advice on making decisions about more complex situations. If they are adults that are intellectually disabled but still need support to lead a semi independent life then the support should include good advice about rules, regulations and safety, to enable them to achieve more independence lives within the community they live in.
|
|
katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
|
Post by katybee on Dec 29, 2020 18:25:58 GMT
I came to say that this young lady has STYLE!! She makes me smile!! Right? A lot of people commented the same to her mother in that thread.
|
|
|
Post by revirdsuba99 on Dec 29, 2020 18:30:42 GMT
I could go out without a mask but there is no way that I will do. The rules are there for a reason and I will not be a Karen about it to get my own way. I totally disagree with people in charge of the health of disabled people deciding to risk the health of them and others. Do you want to wait until more data comes in telling us that wearing masks helps? It will be to late to do so then wan`t it? I have difficulty breathing all the time, but wear a mask when going out. Not that I go out all the time, I do not go out. I wore a mask during out patient PT, going on the bus to PT, going to the doctor and CT scans. It is hard, I can barely wait to get out to take it off, but I wear one for me and for you, the general you, because it is the right thing to do.
|
|
|
Post by claudia123 on Dec 29, 2020 18:32:17 GMT
They often aren't medically vunerable, intellectual disability doesnt always make someone vunerable to covid. And again with "for their own good", these people aren't children they are adults and are able to make their own desicions with support and if they want to risk going to the supermarket, as adults they have the right to make that choice. But surely the support you are giving them should include advice on making decisions about more complex situations. If they are adults that are intellectually disabled but still need support to lead a semi independent life then the support should include good advice about rules, regulations and safety, to enable them to achieve more independence lives within the community they live in. Of course, and many of the service users have indeed chosen to stay at home as much as possible after having the risks explained to them. However, some still decide they want to go put as much as is allowed within the law and although we do everying we can to minimise risks in the UK they are entitled to make that decision for themselves, even if they are mask exempt.
|
|
ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
|
Post by ashley on Dec 29, 2020 18:36:04 GMT
Here it would be considered discrimination. Mask wearing at all indoor places is required but there are exemptions for medical reasons and the exempt person does not need to provide any proof. I don’t think I agree with that rule, but that’s how it has been handled here.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 20:07:43 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2020 18:59:43 GMT
But the risk isn’t to the non-mask wearer, the risk is to everyone else who is forced to be around the person not wearing a mask. The non-mask wearer doesn’t get to simply choose to expose the rest of the world to their potentially contaminated droplets because they don’t want to wear a mask. If the risk was to the non-mask wearer, your arguments might make some sense, although as the mother of 2 young adults with autism, one who is severe and intellectually disabled, I disagree with some of your statements about what they are capable and incapable of. But, and this is the main point, the person NOT WEARING A MASK puts EVERYONE they come in contact with, at risk for COVID. Businesses should not be forced to put the health of their compliant customers at risk. There is a heartbreaking story here of a 25 yo young adult with autism who was functional enough to work at a deli. He *always* wore his mask at work. He asked continually why customers at the deli weren’t wearing masks. He died of COVID this week. Here is coverage in one of your newspapers: metro.co.uk/2020/12/28/autistic-deli-worker-25-frightened-by-maskless-customers-dies-covid-13816251/Im not saying every person with a learning disability haas capacity, just that most of the people i support (who live independently) do have that ability. I think its a cultural difference, the laws in the UK support my view point, the ones in America yours. And i do understand the risks, i just think we have to be very careful about how much we take away from disabldd peope because they may pose a risk to others, otherwise disabled people will become even more shunned and segregated than they already are, in order to keep others safe. I think you're reading far too much into this. No one is taking the "rights" of disabled people away from them by advising them to wear a mask no more that they are taking the " rights" of anyone else away from them by asking them to do the same during a pandemic. No one is stopping a disabled person from going into the store, shop for clothes or anything else they might want to do. What they are expected to do is to consider the risks to themselves and for everyone around them if they choose not to wear one. Do you let the people you support cross the road without looking out for traffic or do you teach them how to do so, safely? If they do not have a legitimate medical reason for not wearing one, then they should comply with the rules, that is in no way taking their disabled right away.
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Dec 29, 2020 19:11:14 GMT
I also wanted to throw into this conversation - many teachers, like me, are required to be in close proximity to students who cannot or will not wear masks. They cannot be required to attend school online and so teachers are endangered. The problem we have is the line between cannot and will not. In some cases we have students whose parents have simply not bothered to try to get them used to wearing a mask, and because of FAPE laws, there’s nothing we can do about it.
Back to private property like a movie theater - I suspect if we didn’t have so many people who resist mask requirements and make up fake medical conditions to justify not wearing one, this would be a non-issue. The rare case of a person with a disability in a situation like this could be allowed. But we can’t do that because so many others will take advantage, substantially increasing the risk for everyone.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 20:07:43 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2020 19:16:58 GMT
Im not saying every person with a learning disability haas capacity, just that most of the people i support (who live independently) do have that ability. I think its a cultural difference, the laws in the UK support my view point, the ones in America yours. And i do understand the risks, i just think we have to be very careful about how much we take away from disabldd peope because they may pose a risk to others, otherwise disabled people will become even more shunned and segregated than they already are, in order to keep others safe. We will have to agree to disagree then: People with disabilities don’t have the right to kill innocent people through potentially exposing them to COVID, in my opinion. Potentially killing scores of people is very different than isolating people with disabilities because they make people psychologically uncomfortable or inconvenienced. I am happy that laws in the USA support this view. People with disabilities can wear masks. And, if for some reason they can’t, there are a myriad of ways for them to have social interactions in safe ways during this pandemic. I know. This is my life 24/7. You can have social interactions online - severely disabled non-verbal young adults are able to manage online schooling. There are outdoor events. There is FaceTime on iPads. No, the interactions aren’t the same, but choosing to not wear a mask doesn’t mean that you can’t have safe interactions. And, you know what, social interactions aren’t the same for ANYONE during this pandemic. It sucks. But just because it sucks doesn’t mean someone - with or without disabilities - has the right to be exempt from standing laws and potentially kill people through the spread of COVID. They are similar here too elaine. The only difference is that if someone goes to a store or wherever where a mask is needed, it can be pointed out to them about the mandatory mask rule and request they wear one. What they can't do is ask the reason why they can't, if that person refuses to wear one or tells the store employee they are exempt. Unfortunately, although most people comply you do have a small element of people that don't, for no medical reason other than they are just a law into themselves.
|
|
|
Post by PolarGreen12 on Dec 29, 2020 19:24:59 GMT
I’m honestly shocked that anyone is visiting movie theaters right now. That’s one of the last places I’d go at this time. They’re pretty gross even when there’s not a pandemic. I have been twice since our theaters opened back up. To AMC, the theater this story is about. They are taking it VERY serious and you can’t touch anything. Even the popcorn butter is in pre-portioned containers. They are sani-fogging between each screening. Wipe and sanitizer stations in front of each theater. Only allowing 40% capacity and no one but your group per row etc. I saw WW last weekend and only 20 people in my huge theater. I only half take my mask off for a few minutes at a time to shove some popcorn in my mouth and take a sip of pop. Surprisingly I feel safer in a theater than I do at the grocery store.
|
|
|
Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 29, 2020 19:32:51 GMT
I wonder sometimes if people ever think of the flip side of this argument. I have a DD with bipolar with schizo-effective properties. What this means for her is that paranoia is an ongoing challenge. Now, the discussion is moot in this case because she wouldn't dare set foot in a movie theater. But she does have to go to work and the gas station and the grocery store. And you can't believe the level of psychological stress on her when people don't wear a mask. Now does she have a valid disability? I vote yes. And does she have to do things to provide for her care and well being that forces her into the public sphere? Yes, she does. So I don't understand if we are being sensitive to disabilities why hers doesn't count as part of the non-masking equation. And I'm not trying to be contrary. I'm just saying, it affects her mental health profoundly. And mine, then too, as I am the one who deals with the fallout from such encounters. My DD is literally terrified of covid. And right now, there's absolutely nothing we can do, except try to get her in for psychiatric care to deal with it.
And maybe that's too far out there for people to wrap their brain around. But she has to deal with the reality of this situation too. There is no perfect world for any of us. There is very little fair and equitable treatment. And we are asking her to deal with it. So do we not have the right to prohibit a non-mask wearing person from going to a completely entertainment-based facility?
|
|
|
Post by twinks on Dec 29, 2020 19:40:52 GMT
This is a subject that has historically really really bothered me. I will admit that I haven’t read all of the responses but I read enough to get the feeling that most agree with me. Just because you have a child with “special needs” doesn’t mean you get a “special” pass to disobey rules or get “special” privileges. Going to a movie, a theme park, the zoo or even the grocery store is not a right. It is a privilege. If the child can’t or won’t wear a mask, then stay home! Be the parent and teach your child how to get along in society and not expect society to bend to their every want! Work with your child to learn to wear a mask. If your child won’t then staying home is a natural consequence.
I get in my soapbox on the subject of making everyone else make “accommodations” for your child. Take responsibility to provide what accommodations you can for your child. Teach them how to be independent and how to fit into society. Don’t cause undo attention to their differences. I mean I would hate it if someone always pointed out my disability or what I can’t do.
I come by my feelings in this subject naturally. I watched how my DD’s self esteem was totally ruined by people pointing out everything she couldn’t do and how “different” she is. I just want to yell at this mom to “Stop It! Look what you are doing to your child!” I want to say, “Stop playing the special needs card and instead be a parent to your child.” I love a quote from a book written by Ron Suskind about his son Owen. He says, “Owen is just like you and I, only more so and less so.” Having a child with challenges doesn’t mean they don’t have the same needs, wants, feelings, etc than any other child.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Dec 29, 2020 19:42:33 GMT
I wonder sometimes if people ever think of the flip side of this argument. I have a DD with bipolar with schizo-effective properties. What this means for her is that paranoia is an ongoing challenge. Now, the discussion is moot in this case because she wouldn't dare set foot in a movie theater. But she does have to go to work and the gas station and the grocery store. And you can't believe the level of psychological stress on her when people don't wear a mask. Now does she have a valid disability? I vote yes. And does she have to do things to provide for her care and well being that forces her into the public sphere? Yes, she does. So I don't understand if we are being sensitive to disabilities why hers doesn't count as part of the non-masking equation. And I'm not trying to be contrary. I'm just saying, it affects her mental health profoundly. And mine, then too, as I am the one who deals with the fallout from such encounters. My DD is literally terrified of covid. And right now, there's absolutely nothing we can do, except try to get her in for psychiatric care to deal with it. And maybe that's too far out there for people to wrap their brain around. But she has to deal with the reality of this situation too. There is no perfect world for any of us. There is very little fair and equitable treatment. And we are asking her to deal with it. So do we not have the right to prohibit a non-mask wearing person from going to a completely entertainment-based facility? Did you read the story I linked above about the 25 y.o. in TN with Autism who wore his masks and was worried about those who came into his place of work without masks? The non-maskers that he had to deal with not only didn’t care that he was able to wear a mask even though he had a disability, they didn’t care that their going maskless caused him psychological and then physical harm. He died of COVID. I think that your and your dd’s concerns are real and valid.
|
|
|
Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 29, 2020 19:44:38 GMT
I wonder sometimes if people ever think of the flip side of this argument. I have a DD with bipolar with schizo-effective properties. What this means for her is that paranoia is an ongoing challenge. Now, the discussion is moot in this case because she wouldn't dare set foot in a movie theater. But she does have to go to work and the gas station and the grocery store. And you can't believe the level of psychological stress on her when people don't wear a mask. Now does she have a valid disability? I vote yes. And does she have to do things to provide for her care and well being that forces her into the public sphere? Yes, she does. So I don't understand if we are being sensitive to disabilities why hers doesn't count as part of the non-masking equation. And I'm not trying to be contrary. I'm just saying, it affects her mental health profoundly. And mine, then too, as I am the one who deals with the fallout from such encounters. My DD is literally terrified of covid. And right now, there's absolutely nothing we can do, except try to get her in for psychiatric care to deal with it. And maybe that's too far out there for people to wrap their brain around. But she has to deal with the reality of this situation too. There is no perfect world for any of us. There is very little fair and equitable treatment. And we are asking her to deal with it. So do we not have the right to prohibit a non-mask wearing person from going to a completely entertainment-based facility? Did you read the story I linked above about the 25 y.o. in TN with Autism who wore his masks and was worried about those who came into his place of work without masks? The non-maskers that he had to deal with not only didn’t care that he was able to wear a mask even though he had a disability, they didn’t care that their going maskless caused him psychological and then physical harm. He died of COVID. I think that your and your dd’s concerns are real and valid. It's causing many of us psychological harm. And people are quick to dismiss that. Or make fun of it, living in fear, are we?
|
|