|
Post by whopea on Nov 13, 2014 17:47:31 GMT
My honest opinion is these kids really are not in love. They are probably in love with the idea of being "in love". Without spending some real quality alone time (and no I am not talking about sex) it is really hard to know what the person is really like. I don't agree with anything they do. Do they really think these boys will behave anything less than stellar around the parents? Would any boy really do that? They have a chance to be a part of this huge conglomerate industry. Who wouldn't be a "good" kid to get in on that. I honestly believe that while they may eventually fall in love once they are married, I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt that any of the kids were really in love when they got married. What if they want to divorce? Will that be allowed? I really feel bad for this family. I don't watch this show, but your comment reminded me of a study I read a few years ago that was looking at how the norms for dating, marriage and divorce rates have changed over time. What's interesting is that if you look at the impromptu marriages of the early 20th century - particularly the booms around WWI and WWII where people were jumping into marrying people they'd known for extremely short periods of time - divorce rates were low, and probably more importantly considering the stigma of divorce, marital satisfaction was quite high. Even in cultures where arranged marriages still occur (these are Americans who are still adhering to their cultural norm) the marital satisfaction was much higher than for those who "fell in love" before marriage. The study theorized that many modern day marriage suffer from the fairy tale syndrome - where they believe love conquers all, and their life/marriage will be romantic and perfect because they're in love. When their relationship inevitably hits a bump, they are more apt to believe that it's a sign that it's not "true love" versus a normal part of a relationship. While those who married before love, are more apt to have an expectation that marriage requires effort, and won't be "perfect". It ultimately led to higher marriage satisfaction. Sorry this is totally off topic - but I thought it was interesting how one's expectations about marriage play a role in your ultimate happiness and the impact of "being in love". That's an interesting study. I think the other part to consider about their relationships is that without the physical aspect clouding their judgment, they're able to get to know each other on a more personal basis. I think it's the personal relationship that would sustain them during difficult trials in their marriage, rather than having a more intimate relationship beforehand. I don't understand what the fuss is about the Jessa and Ben's picture? It's not like they're sucking each other's face off or balancing a champagne glass on their rear ends! It's a kiss. Big deal.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 2:56:03 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 17:52:54 GMT
I don't personally find the pictures gross, I think they're kind of sad because they're totally lacking in passion and none of them are going to win an award for 'best kisser' Jessa looks like a sucker fish and Ben just looks scared.
|
|
|
Post by songbird on Nov 13, 2014 19:23:50 GMT
I added a bold to your response above. They didn't touch one another due to beliefs...not because they didn't want to. They were showing restraint based on their religious beliefs. That's a big difference. I can also understand wanting to share your very first kiss in private because I wouldn't want to feel awkward about it - especially after what people were saying about Derick and Jill's first kiss at the altar. I wouldn't post the picture either, but I also could care less that they did. I think it's pretty mild compared to what other "reality" tv people put out there. Wooosh. WTH does that mean? I'm trying to have a discussion, and this is your response?
|
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,046
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
|
Post by Olan on Nov 13, 2014 19:26:36 GMT
But if they are showing restraint due to their faith arent the constant chaperones sort of undermining all that?
|
|
azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
|
Post by azredhead on Nov 13, 2014 20:35:17 GMT
I can't decide what the word is I don't find it 'gross' but bizarre. A little narcissist if anything. If that's the right word. I've only watched the show in tiny bits and pieces but not since the children as married.Mostly out of curiosity.
|
|
sharlag
Drama Llama
I like my artsy with a little bit of fartsy.
Posts: 6,574
Location: Kansas
Jun 26, 2014 12:57:48 GMT
|
Post by sharlag on Nov 13, 2014 20:41:01 GMT
But if they are showing restraint due to their faith arent the constant chaperones sort of undermining all that? I wonder if, because they're on TV and sort of an 'example' of this lifestyle/belief system, they feel extra pressure to prove they practice what they preach?
|
|
|
Post by peanuttle on Nov 13, 2014 20:44:13 GMT
I don't really follow them, but I agree, that is very creepy!
|
|
|
Post by jackietex on Nov 14, 2014 2:32:06 GMT
But if they are showing restraint due to their faith arent the constant chaperones sort of undermining all that? I don't think so. In my opinion, they aren't trying to prove their faith, but live out their beliefs and the chaperons are helping them to do so.
|
|
likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
|
Post by likescarrots on Nov 14, 2014 3:06:48 GMT
WTH does that mean? I'm trying to have a discussion, and this is your response? It means the conversation is either going straight over your head, or you're being deliberately obtuse (I'm going to guess the latter). If their religion is so strict as to say that people should not kiss or touch before marriage, it probably would also not advocate the overt public display of those same actions... it doesn't make any sense, and thus, I find it weird. And I know my point was made clearly, because multiple people liked my post.
|
|
|
Post by jackietex on Nov 14, 2014 3:28:13 GMT
WTH does that mean? I'm trying to have a discussion, and this is your response? It means the conversation is either going straight over your head, or you're being deliberately obtuse (I'm going to guess the latter). If their religion is so strict as to say that people should not kiss or touch before marriage, it probably would also not advocate the overt public display of those same actions... it doesn't make any sense, and thus, I find it weird. And I know my point was made clearly, because multiple people liked my post. It's possible, but I don't believe so. I believe that the sexual side of a relationship is supposed to be reserved for marriage for many reasons, BUT once one is married it doesn't have to be kept behind closed doors.
|
|
|
Post by padresfan619 on Nov 14, 2014 3:40:11 GMT
Considering Jim Bob and Michelle practically dry humped on a mini golf course in front of Jessa and Ben while taunting "You can't do this yet!!!!!" I'd say there is no need for restraint once the couple is married.
|
|
|
Post by bosoxbeth on Nov 14, 2014 4:10:08 GMT
They are SUPER SKEEVY.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 2:56:03 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 4:48:08 GMT
I still say when you tour modesty and chaste living posting these types of photos negate that supposed belief. I don't find it awful or racy. Just hypocritical. Hell they can't even wear real bathing suits. SMH
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 2:56:03 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 11:58:43 GMT
I still say when you tour modesty and chaste living posting these types of photos negate that supposed belief. I don't find it awful or racy. Just hypocritical. Hell they can't even wear real bathing suits. SMH I'm in awe of your example of tolerance, acceptance and non-judgement of others personal choices and lifestyles. Seriously. It's amazing. Would love to see what would transpire if someone posted a thread that criticized the lifestyle choices of an openly gay couple and their family. I'm sure it would be a ball of fun.
|
|
|
Post by kelbel827 on Nov 14, 2014 12:10:39 GMT
I don't mind people publicly kissing, or posting online. More power to the guys who posted their pictures.
What I do mind is this family who shoves their values down the viewers throats. They talk of modesty, hell they wear full skirts while swimming. They discuss how their adult children can't touch or hug, except for the side hug to express feelings. They need chaperones while courting. They don't go to the beach because of impure thoughts. Yet the second that the rules are lifted (I guess that's how they feel) once a person is married, they can do what they want. This is a family who doesn't watch television, but has their own show, they don't use the internet except for education, and they post make out pictures. The Duggars are hypocrites.
Don't get me started on their uneducated views on birth control, and the political robocalls. Oh, and to those that say, "don't watch" I don't watch anymore, but I can't seem to get a break when I try to watch regular shows without them having to come announce who is pregnant or getting married or what the sex of the baby is or that someone's tooth fell out. This is NOT NEWS. I'm sure they sit home and concoct more ways to stay in the spotlight.
|
|
grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
|
Post by grinningcat on Nov 14, 2014 12:15:54 GMT
I don't mind people publicly kissing, or posting online. More power to the guys who posted their pictures. What I do mind is this family who shoves their values down the viewers throats. They talk of modesty, hell they wear full skirts while swimming. They discuss how their adult children can't touch or hug, except for the side hug to express feelings. They need chaperones while courting. They don't go to the beach because of impure thoughts. Yet the second that the rules are lifted (I guess that's how they feel) once a person is married, they can do what they want. This is a family who doesn't watch television, but has their own show, they don't use the internet except for education, and they post make out pictures. The Duggars are hypocrites. Don't get me started on their uneducated views on birth control, and the political robocalls. Oh, and to those that say, "don't watch" I don't watch anymore, but I can't seem to get a break when I try to watch regular shows without them having to come announce who is pregnant or getting married or what the sex of the baby is or that someone's tooth fell out. This is NOT NEWS. I'm sure they sit home and concoct more ways to stay in the spotlight. Exactly!
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 2:56:03 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 12:49:56 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 2:56:03 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 14:17:14 GMT
I still say when you tour modesty and chaste living posting these types of photos negate that supposed belief. I don't find it awful or racy. Just hypocritical. Hell they can't even wear real bathing suits. SMH I'm in awe of your example of tolerance, acceptance and non-judgement of others personal choices and lifestyles. Seriously. It's amazing. Would love to see what would transpire if someone posted a thread that criticized the lifestyle choices of an openly gay couple and their family. I'm sure it would be a ball of fun. They can have whatever beliefs they want. I don't care. They are bring hypocritical though and I just pointed that out. The only place my tolerance stops is when they are trying to force their religious beliefs on others via laws. I will not tolerate that bs. If you actually read my posts I even stand up for them. But no you just go on the offensive even though they are being hypocrites.
|
|
M in Carolina
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,128
Jun 29, 2014 12:11:41 GMT
|
Post by M in Carolina on Nov 15, 2014 7:58:07 GMT
[/a][/quote] Thanks for posting this link, Kokeshi doll. The blog post listed explains why I personally don't like The Duggars. They look *happy* on the outside, but I've been in a church like theirs, where women are subjugated and have no importance other than being obedient servant/wifes and mothers. These people want to product as many others like them so they can vote their way of life into government. They're not happy just living their lives the way they want to and letting others live theirs, they won't stop until we *all* are living like them. I've been a victim of this movement and way of thinking. My dh and I have been judged because we didn't have children. Dh has been told that he "doesn't keep me on a short enough leash" and that he should have put his foot down and insisted that I still get pregnant even though of high risks of death or severe complications to me and our baby. We've been shunned for not adopting and daring to say that we're happy as a family of two. We're so sick of people insisting that we're being punished and have lost out on "God's greatest gift" because we're child free. I have lots of reasons why I didn't want children, and dh dated and married me knowing all of this. He chose me. These groups would love to have Song of Solomon removed from the Bible. The equal relationship between the lovers in Song of Solomon tell a different story than what's being preached from the pulpit. Sex is supposed to be amazing and wonderful between a married couple. Saying that sex is only for procreation is a perversion of the truth. These "Christian" leaders do want to subjugate women. We're told to sit down, shut up, and do as we're told. Preachers preach about "immodesty" about how girls dress, but never preach about how men should keep their eyes to themselves. I've heard so many girls from these movements explain why "it's a waste of money to send me to college because I'd never use my degree" --I heard this from a young married woman who's husband was in the military. Yeah, there's no chance that you might need to work to support your family. Even if you don't work in your field of study, education is never a waste. The issue with educating women though, is the fear that when they learn that they can be independent that they won't have to stay with a chauvenistic man and will be more picky about who they marry. I feel so bad for those kids. Hopefully they'll see the prison they're in and get out. God didn't want women to only be housewives and mothers. Look at the Proverbs 31 woman--she ran a business, her household/vineyard, clothed her family in purple (at the time that was what royalty was clothed with), her husband came to her for counsel for his political position, and everyone admired and respected her. That's what God wants for women. Not the perversion so many people equate with Biblical "submission".
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 2:56:03 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 12:30:48 GMT
Why would you be part of this 'movement' if you don't share their beliefs? That makes no sense. I find it really hard to believe that anyone would tell your husband to insist you get pregnant, who tells other people that?
|
|
|
Post by cropduster on Nov 15, 2014 12:50:51 GMT
I'm hoping you got out M in Carolina. I have an extended family member that is a member of a group like this and I have always thought, "To each his own...". Now after reading that blog, I want to go to them and yell, "Get out!". Sadly, it's not limited to just that religion. I know a woman in our community that is Catholic who is a part of the Quiverfull Movement. But believe me, she does not stand by and submits to her husband. She always has letters to the editor in our local paper making a stand about her politics.
|
|
|
Post by wandawoman on Nov 15, 2014 12:51:48 GMT
The morning of Jill's wedding, just hours before, the couple wanted to have some time together to pray and before they headed off to do this, Jim Bob asked if they had a chaperon. I just felt.......come on, Jim Bob, really!!!?? They can not have a private moment of prayer just hours before the wedding? They had made it THAT long without breaking the rules, surely they would not "mess up" the day of the wedding!!! I just thought Dad could have bent the rules a little or that Jill would have just said, you know what, we are going to have this time alone. period. That bothered me too. If he couldn't trust them to go pray alone just before getting married, that says a lot about how little he trusts them or how controlling he is.
|
|
Nicole in TX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,951
Jun 26, 2014 2:00:21 GMT
|
Post by Nicole in TX on Nov 15, 2014 13:43:54 GMT
I find it really hard to believe that anyone would tell your husband to insist you get pregnant, who tells other people that? You wouldn't find it hard to believe if you spent any time among the very religious right.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 2:56:03 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 13:58:36 GMT
I find it really hard to believe that anyone would tell your husband to insist you get pregnant, who tells other people that? You wouldn't find it hard to believe if you spent any time among the very religious right. It's sad that people feel the need to say things like that and even more sad that they feel a womans only role on earth should be as a mother.
|
|
stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,579
Location: In the leaves and rain.
Jun 25, 2014 19:57:33 GMT
|
Post by stittsygirl on Nov 15, 2014 14:08:42 GMT
Why would you be part of this 'movement' if you don't share their beliefs? That makes no sense. I find it really hard to believe that anyone would tell your husband to insist you get pregnant, who tells other people that? I was raised in a very similar "movement", not quite as militant, but with a lot of the same attitudes about a women's "place" and motherhood/parenthood, and the judgements that can come with it if you don't conform. If you're raised in it, and it's all you know especially during your formative years, it can be very hard to break from those beliefs and culture. I predict one or two of the Dugger children will eventually leave the "lifestyle". It will be interesting to see how their family treats them then.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 2:56:03 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 14:19:19 GMT
Why would you be part of this 'movement' if you don't share their beliefs? That makes no sense. I find it really hard to believe that anyone would tell your husband to insist you get pregnant, who tells other people that? I was raised in a very similar "movement", not quite as militant, but with a lot of the same attitudes about a women's "place" and motherhood/parenthood, and the judgements that can come with it if you don't conform. If you're raised in it, and it's all you know especially during your formative years, it can be very hard to break from those beliefs and culture. I predict one or two of the Dugger children will eventually leave the "lifestyle". It will be interesting to see how their family treats them then. I don't know if M in Carolina was raised in that kind of movement or not. I can't imagine being surrounded by people who thought my reproductive choices were any of their business, makes me shudder!
|
|
tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
|
Post by tduby1 on Nov 15, 2014 14:59:38 GMT
I find it really hard to believe that anyone would tell your husband to insist you get pregnant, who tells other people that? You wouldn't find it hard to believe if you spent any time among the very religious right. I grew up, my entire life, in the very religious right. In fact, from things she's said, I believe it's the same group as M. When I say grew up, I mean Christian school 5 days a week, youth group on Sat, two church services on Sun, church/ prayer group on Wed, church camp winter and summer, "college", and married in the church. I left when my second child was born for many of the same reasons "M" listed, HOWEVER in regards to her claims about being forced into "having babies" despite health risks, I NEVER saw that behavior and find the claims far fetched for the sake of being a "victim". My Pastor was considered a leader in this movement so we saw the worst of the worst, IMO. To be clear I never lost my faith in God, just in man, so I cut out the middle man, MAN. We were always taught the pecking order was God, preacher(s), husband and that a God would tell the husband, through the preacher what you should do. I now talk to God and get direction from him directly, as does DH. It's the happiest and least confused we have ever been.
|
|
|
Post by meeko77 on Nov 15, 2014 21:34:17 GMT
I got heavily involved in a Southern Baptist church as a teen and college student. Southern Baptist is not certainly not as extreme as the Duggars, but has many of the same elements (no drinking, men are head of household and church-no female preachers, traditional "women's" roles in the home). Many of the things were so ridiculous I eventually came to question EVERYTHING. To the point that I am now agnostic. I sometimes wonder how many people are pushed away from the church by the extremists. I reason to guess it's many. I have hope that some of the Duggar children will question and learn on their own and make their own decisions about their faith.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 2:56:03 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 22:10:01 GMT
Many of the things were so ridiculous I eventually came to question EVERYTHING. To the point that I am now agnostic. I sometimes wonder how many people are pushed away from the church by the extremists. I reason to guess it's many. I have hope that some of the Duggar children will question and learn on their own and make their own decisions about their faith. Oh, it's many. I was raised in a Christian religion that was pretty extreme, and like you, I'm now agnostic. In fact, that's how I met my DH-through mutual friends in a support group for people who left the extreme religion. And the extremists in all the other churches that we tried are what finally pushed us into agnosticism. Same here-and I think some of them will. And like someone else said, it will be interesting to see how their family treats them.
|
|
pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
|
Post by pyccku on Nov 16, 2014 14:07:12 GMT
They probably won't be treated well. There are many stories on some of the reddit forums from kids who have "come out" as atheist or agnostic only to have their families kick them out, shun them, come up with crazy rules in the hopes of controlling their beliefs, etc. to the point where the standard advice given to minors wanting to come out is: don't.
The TV cameras may help a little, as they may not want their dirty laundry aired. Then again, maybe they'll choose to make a visible example of what happens to sheep who go astray. Who really knows with the duggars?
|
|