|
|
Post by malibou on May 22, 2021 6:07:27 GMT
I am deeply sorry for the position your ex has put you in. Mean people suck.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikklynn on May 22, 2021 11:06:16 GMT
No advice, just a giant hug.
|
|
J u l e e
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
|
Post by J u l e e on May 22, 2021 11:19:21 GMT
What a nightmare. I’m so sorry. Absent a counselor, I think I I’d try my hardest to have a conversation with him and your ex husband. Start with your son.
“I love you too much to watch you be this miserable. I hear you saying that you want to live with your dad. I’d like to find a way to make that happen and for you to have some control and a voice in the decision. Let’s get the three of us together and come up with a plan. I believe we can accomplish this together. If it doesn’t seem like what’s being proposed (when his father demands both boys live with him) is best for everyone, we can get a third party to help us sort it out. I’m on your side. I want you to feel comfortable where you live and enjoy who you live with.”
This puts you actively helping him get what he wants with the expectation of it being successful and also the suggestion that you may need another person (ad litem, judge) to help. But the goal is him living with his dad. He can then witness his dad not agreeing to have him unless his brother comes too, which his brother gets a voice in as well (I’m assuming brother wants to stay with you).
I wouldn’t tie any part of it to the things you have provided for him. But If/when you get to discussing this, I’d make sure to have time spent with you as a part of the agreement - where you can pick him up and have contact. Go hiking, play a video game, learn how to skateboard, I don’t know.
I hope you guys can work this out. I’m sorry for you and your son. I wouldn’t want to be forced to be with people I didn’t like and resented. It’s hard to be that age and have no control over your own life. I’m sorry that this is your situation.
|
|
kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305 
|
Post by kibblesandbits on May 22, 2021 11:51:27 GMT
Therapy.
Your ex-husband isn't the only one that has created this situation. Your son is grieving his lost family, one that you seem to have blissfully moved on from. Doesn't matter that the youngest has adjusted better.
What a mess. Your ex is a dick. But you have some culpability here too.
|
|
peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,913
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
|
Post by peabay on May 22, 2021 12:54:39 GMT
I'm sorry to read in your subsequent posts about what a dick your ex is. This is a kid who feels very out of control in his family situation. The only "power" he has is to refuse your love right now (to put it bluntly.) He really needs therapy. He needs somewhere to hash all this out. Does his school have a "teen talk" counselor or anything like that? I wish there was some way to ally with your ex to get him help. The ideal would be to have you all in family therapy. You want to be able to say you don't think your son is crazy; you're not trying to bring him around to your way of thinking but you know he's unhappy and you want to help him work through it all. It seems if your ex is being so difficult the only way to make things happen is to go back through the courts.  |
|
julie5
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,611
|
Post by julie5 on May 22, 2021 14:14:38 GMT
I have no real advice but I commiserate with you. My oldest is now 21, her dad and I split when she was 8. He told her all sorts of lies that really rewrote the narrative she amd I would end up having. She has this perception of me that simply isn’t true. Her dad has recently apologized to me for his part in that. The damage is done. She has a 3 month old baby I’m not allowed to know. It’s painful. Words can’t describe it. But I commiserate.
|
|
|
|
Post by ihaveonly1l on May 22, 2021 14:33:11 GMT
Thinking of this some more, and recently completing raising a couple of teen boys, I wouldn’t take anything away as a punishment for his feelings, but I would absolutely have consequences for not being respectful and doing his part as a member of the family. Lay those out explicitly to everyone in the household and the consequences to all if they are broken.
He can learn he can speak to you in disagreement without tone.
We had a few simple rules:
Respectfully speak to each other
Answer our texts when we send them
Help around the house with your responsibilities and other things as requested
Phone in the kitchen at night
No missing assignments
If those things weren’t happening technology was turned in until you can get it together
I’d encourage you to have a family meeting and lay out a plan for all-then he won’t feel singled out. And then you have to enforce it. Don’t let him manipulate you because you are afraid of his response.
Good luck- raising kids in hard and a situation like this with your ex makes it so much harder.
|
|
momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,153
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
|
Post by momto4kiddos on May 22, 2021 15:27:52 GMT
Therapy for you is a great start! The kids are individuals, not a package deal so i'd be shocked if this was in the custody arrangement? What is the younger ds?
I know this would really suck, but...maybe you should tell ds that if he wants he can live where he chooses. Let ex tell him no! I'd hate for my kid to be hurt like that, but it sounds like ex really paints you into a corner. Would ex even want them living with him? Sounds like a possibility that he knows you'd never give up both so the all or nothing possibly gives him what he wants, no kids.
|
|
georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
|
Post by georgiapea on May 22, 2021 15:32:24 GMT
I would give him a comfortable space to be and not make him participate in family time. I'd allow him to take meals in his room, even. No pressure to join family events. Can you offer him a summer camp of his preferred theme?
|
|
|
|
Post by Zee on May 22, 2021 16:26:44 GMT
That is such a hard age. Well, all of the early teen years are. I would try my best to have a conversation with him where you let him see that you are vulnerable too, that you want him to be happy, and that you think talking it over might help you come to a solution.
Your ex sounds like a petty asshole so I would hire an attorney to pursue the counseling and to revisit the living arrangements. Perhaps through mediation that jerk will consider not further fucking up his son by letting him live there without demanding the other one does too.
Does your son know all the things his dad has done? If he does, maybe he's misplacing the blame on you by rationalizing in his head that it's YOUR fault he can't live with dad because you won't let his brother go--rather than placing the blame where it belongs, on his father's unreasonable demand. And don't let him resent his little brother, either.
People have so many ways to mess things up after a divorce, too bad your ex can't see what he's doing.
|
|
peaname
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,390
|
Post by peaname on May 22, 2021 17:40:10 GMT
I have an older son and one your son's age. A lot of this sounds like typical teen boy behavior. If you had only added he eats 4-6 bowls of cereal per day and leaves dishes in his room and left out the ex part you'd be describing my freshman in high school. It gets better, I promise. I find taking them for a drive to a fast food place will often get them to open up a bit.
|
|
rickmer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,141
|
Post by rickmer on May 23, 2021 14:17:28 GMT
i am sorry you and your son are struggling. my ex also uses his anger against me to guide his decisions - not what is best for the kids.
all is fine as long as i don't push back. if i do (just going by the terms of the agreement), he rants about "your fucking mother...". yes, we have a clause in our agreement about not talking badly about each other. what do i do? tell him to knock it off? then he knows they have told me and he turns on them.... can't win. my therapist says to keep parenting the way i have been - and make my home the "antidote" to their father's anger. he is not abusive - just a dick. and if the kids were ever put in the spot of being asked, they would defend him. it's all they know.
i don't understand how ex can say you have to give up custody of younger son? i assume your ex has 50/50 custody of both boys? then half the time your younger son would stay with you, while your older son stays with dad the majority of the time.
i would tell my son if you want to stay with your dad, you should speak to his father about it. i would speak to younger son and make sure he is okay with staying with current arrangement and when ex says "i must have younger DS too".... no, that is not what he wants. then older DS is part of the situation and may feel more control - he also may realize his dad is playing games when he refuses to have him there unless he gets them both?
good luck... i have felt my hands tied and helpless to change things many times.... youngest is 14 so i have accepted it will be for the next 4 years.
|
|
AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
|
Post by AmeliaBloomer on May 23, 2021 14:56:01 GMT
You’ve gotten some good advice here, especially from those with experience. I just wanted to say that the situation is so very sad and frustrating and I’m sorry. I hope it improves.
|
|
quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
|
Post by quiltz on May 23, 2021 19:35:12 GMT
My oldest son is 15 and just finishing 9th grade. A little backstory... my ex-husband and I divorced when my oldest was 9 (separated when he was 8). He did not take the divorce well and is still very angry about it. Most of that anger is directed at me. I am the one who left, but my ex told our kids I had an affair (I didn’t), I kicked him out of the house (he left voluntarily), and I am a lying bitch who destroyed our family. It’s a very long story, but ultimately my son resents me, doesn’t want to spend time with me or my SO at my house, and he wants to live with his dad full time. How long have you been living together with your SO and his kids? Does your son have his own room? How long were you in a relationship with you SO before he moved in with you (or you moved in with him)?When forced, he will communicate (minimally) with me and my SO (and SO’s kids), but only when forced. Left to his own devices, he spends his time locked in his room or going to friends’ houses to avoid being here. He will spend between 2pm (after school) - bedtime in his room, only coming out for dinner, if I don’t force him to come out and join the rest of the family. Does your son feel like his is even a part of 'the family' or does he feel like he is simply just part of the family because he lives with you. Does he feel cared for, does he feel important or does he just simply feel that he is 'trapped' within this family unit?He is an excellent student (3.86 GPA) with no behavior issues at school. He didn’t treat anyone else this way except me. I am at a complete loss and devastated. I have given my kids a wonderful life... vacations, we moved into a beautiful new house in November, we just brought home a new Great Dane puppy, he has a brand new iPhone 12, etc., and, in his words “I don’t like you and (SO name) and I would rather be at my dad’s”. He mopes and pouts when we make him go places with us, avoids conversations with our friends and my SO’s family, and generally avoids any contact or communication with anyone except his brother when he is with me. Material things may not be important for him. Do you spend time with him, exclusively or make him feel important? Does he feel that possibly that your SO and his brother, SO kids have a higher priority than he has in this family unit?Right now he’s locked in the bathroom. He got here an hour ago, went straight to his room, was snotty with me when I asked him about something on his phone, and hasn’t spoken to me since. A part of me wants to hand him over to his dad, take his phone/AirPods/iPhone watch back, and let him go until he grows up and realizes what an ungrateful shit he’s being. The other part of me wants to smother him with love and kindness and hope he sees how loved he is. He is 15, a time where he is trying to find out about himself and relationships. Does he even like your SO + SO kids or was he really not given "a choice or a say" on the current living conditions. Have you had good communication when it comes to his feelings or do your own personal feelings of wanting to be in a relationship over-ride what he would like. Have any of your past relationships been positive for your son? Does he feel like he is valued? How long have you waited in your relationships to introduced your sons to your boy-friend(s)? I am tired of giving giving giving to this kid and getting nothing but disrespect and anger back. What do you think? Please be gentle... my mama heart is broken. Your son probably doesn't feel that he is valued and that his feelings or points of view are even being considered. Being with his dad would give him feelings of being valued or made more important than mom's latest guy.
Kids don't ask to be born. It is then up to the parents to be as considerate as possible to the children that they bring into the world and make them feel valued by their parents.
He might still be processing the divorce and the loss of activities because mom & dad couldn't agree on stuff. He might feel that mom having a boy-friend is more important than he is and that the extra kids are another drain on mom. Maybe he doesn't like the new family members. Therapy is a must in this situation. |
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on May 23, 2021 21:55:44 GMT
I was told by the judge that my ex and I need to realize our lives our different now that we are divorced and he sent us to mediation. My ex-husband refused to cooperate but because he attended, no further action was required. Essentially, I lost. My ex pulled our kids from all of their sports and activities, which is against our parenting plan, and there were no consequences from the judge. I really am stuck. Then I’d say with no consequences for your ex, I’d be taking him to therapy. Jesus Christ why can’t your ex Realize he’s fucking up his own kid??? |
|
|
|
Post by bc2ca on May 23, 2021 22:11:59 GMT
It’s a very long story, but ultimately my son resents me, doesn’t want to spend time with me or my SO at my house, and he wants to live with his dad full time. FWIW, when a niece was 15 she fought with her mom, couldn't stand mom's new partner, and ended up living with her dad (my BIL) for 18 months. Her younger sister stayed with mom the whole time. BIL and his ex couldn't be in the same room together and were always bad mouthing each other, so the girls became master manipulators to get their way. It took living with her dad for a while for her to get a better balance and, TBH, she ended up being more mature than either parent. Sadly it sounds like your ex is happy to feed the story that DS's life was turned upside down because of you. Add in the natural push/pull in teen/parent relationships and you have a ton of resentment DS can't process without something changing. Right now he gets to hold hard to his anger. Can you pursue a custody change giving older DS to your ex? Why does ex get to dictate he will only take older DS if he gets both? |
|
|
|
Post by peasapie on May 23, 2021 22:19:04 GMT
It’s a very long story, but ultimately my son resents me, doesn’t want to spend time with me or my SO at my house, and he wants to live with his dad full time. FWIW, when a niece was 15 she fought with her mom, couldn't stand mom's new partner, and ended up living with her dad (my BIL) for 18 months. Her younger sister stayed with mom the whole time. BIL and his ex couldn't be in the same room together and were always bad mouthing each other, so the girls became master manipulators to get their way. It took living with her dad for a while for her to get a better balance and, TBH, she ended up being more mature than either parent. Sadly it sounds like your ex is happy to feed the story that DS's life was turned upside down because of you. Add in the natural push/pull in teen/parent relationships and you have a ton of resentment DS can't process without something changing. Right now he gets to hold hard to his anger. Can you pursue a custody change giving older DS to your ex? Why does ex get to dictate he will only take older DS if he gets both?I wondered the same thing. And yes, I would agree to let him go. I don't think you will change his mind, as your ex husband has him convinced of these lies. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 1, 2024 0:01:39 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2021 2:52:43 GMT
I would not let him go. No way! My biggest concern is that once your ex gets in his ear 24/7 it will be all over. You will really be the bad guy for good. And for your younger ds to go there too? NO WAY!! Your ex will poison them both. If you can't get a court to make some much needed changes, I would put up with his anger and resentment and work through it. It will get better. I've raised teenagers, it's tough. Extremely challenging. Both my kids went through anger phases. I loved them through it with a lot of patience. Dh disagreed with my parenting. He preferred punishments and anger. His anger only got them more angry. The punishments made them resent him. (To this day) I wasn't all fluff and sunshine. I made them accountable for their actions. And then I forced them to talk with me when they calmed down. And my secret was that it was via text. They seemed to open up more easily via text. I do know that my way isn't the most popular way to raise teens, but it worked out well for me. My kids have great respect for me. And looking back they can see what shits they were being and are remorseful for it. But they appreciate that I was there for them, even when they thought they didn't want me there. 15 is a really confusing time for kids. I feel for you. You can always pm me if you'd like to talk more.
|
|
|
|
Post by 50offscrapper on May 24, 2021 5:13:56 GMT
Your husband is playing you all. He knows you won’t give up the younger son and that keeps him from having to take the older son. He tells your eldest son that you prevent them living together. You’re the bad guy and your ex doesn’t have to step up.
Clear up the lies with your son! Defend yourself. Tell him his father LIED and setup a meeting with ex , your son and you,
Tell him you are letting your eldest go live with dad but not the youngest. Reiterate to our son that his home is with you and he can come back anytime but you want him to be happy. You will let him go for 3 months on trial basis but only him. Then watch your ex make up some excuse as to why he can’t have your eldest son go.
Stop buying material things for your kids! Take away his phone when he is rude. Stop trying to be a friend or even stop trying to be liked and do what’s important-parent. Your job isn’t to be liked; it is to raise responsible adults. As I used to tell my kids; my job is to civilize you, teach you to think independently and critical, and to survive without me if anything were happen to me. You may need to forgo you SO and focus on you son for a while. Show him he means more.
Hugs! You are in a tough spot but you can do this.
|
|
craftymom101
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,786
|
Post by craftymom101 on May 24, 2021 14:52:30 GMT
Thank you for all the responses and kind words.
I’m not in a place, mentally, to give up custody of my kids. We love less than 10 minutes from their father and it would kill me to know I can’t see them.
Right now, the plan is to work through his anger/crabby phase and hopefully (many years down the line) he will realize just how manipulative and vindictive his father really is.
He is disciplined when he is rude/disrespectful andi have had many conversations with his about the expectations in our house.
|
|
|
|
Post by floridagirl on May 24, 2021 15:03:29 GMT
Oh, and your ex is a piece of shit. What a vindictive little man. And a coward too. He says that he won't have one son live with him without the other, and he knows damn well that you would never allow him to have custody of both kids. Chances are he doesn't want full time custody, and this way he gets to make you look like the bad guy again. "Oh son, I would love for you and your brother to live with me, but mum won't allow it." This was my first thought when I heard that. Your ex does not want custody. I agree with this. My scumbag ex pulled something similar, he didn't want custody, but blamed me. I know its hard but eventually kids really do see the truth of a situation. Keep fighting...it took years and many mediators, and judges to finally see through his bullcrap and do the right thing for the boys. |
|
|
|
Post by Really Red on May 24, 2021 15:14:24 GMT
Therapy. Your ex-husband isn't the only one that has created this situation. Your son is grieving his lost family, one that you seem to have blissfully moved on from. Doesn't matter that the youngest has adjusted better. What a mess. Your ex is a dick. But you have some culpability here too. Why? Why can't you be nice? If you feel like OP has some culpability, why do you have to be so rude about it? How do you know she's blissfully moved on? How can you so summarily dismiss the enormous impact that her ex had on this poor kid (telling him lies about his mom, cheating on his wife, removing his kids from sports, etc.). craftymom101 has found someone to support and love her. I promise you that was probably the absolute best thing that she could have done in this situation. Her son has a stable, loving family in his home now. I just do not understand your need to be so ugly when you could say something similar but more helpful. Who do you think listens when you are that ugly? To me, it sounds like Crafty is a pretty incredible mom who is trying to figure out how to help her son in the best way. You, OTOH, are not a help at all. |
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on May 24, 2021 15:22:05 GMT
Therapy. Your ex-husband isn't the only one that has created this situation. Your son is grieving his lost family, one that you seem to have blissfully moved on from. Doesn't matter that the youngest has adjusted better. What a mess. Your ex is a dick. But you have some culpability here too. Why? Why can't you be nice? If you feel like OP has some culpability, why do you have to be so rude about it? How do you know she's blissfully moved on? How can you so summarily dismiss the enormous impact that her ex had on this poor kid (telling him lies about his mom, cheating on his wife, removing his kids from sports, etc.). craftymom101 has found someone to support and love her. I promise you that was probably the absolute best thing that she could have done in this situation. Her son has a stable, loving family in his home now. I just do not understand your need to be so ugly when you could say something similar but more helpful. Who do you think listens when you are that ugly? To me, it sounds like Crafty is a pretty incredible mom who is trying to figure out how to help her son in the best way. You, OTOH, are not a help at all. Yes!!! Quite a many times her responses have this same tone. It makes one wonder if they’re generally unhappy! |
|
|
|
Post by Skellinton on May 24, 2021 15:30:17 GMT
Therapy. Your ex-husband isn't the only one that has created this situation. Your son is grieving his lost family, one that you seem to have blissfully moved on from. Doesn't matter that the youngest has adjusted better. What a mess. Your ex is a dick. But you have some culpability here too. Why? Why can't you be nice? If you feel like OP has some culpability, why do you have to be so rude about it? How do you know she's blissfully moved on? How can you so summarily dismiss the enormous impact that her ex had on this poor kid (telling him lies about his mom, cheating on his wife, removing his kids from sports, etc.). craftymom101 has found someone to support and love her. I promise you that was probably the absolute best thing that she could have done in this situation. Her son has a stable, loving family in his home now. I just do not understand your need to be so ugly when you could say something similar but more helpful. Who do you think listens when you are that ugly? To me, it sounds like Crafty is a pretty incredible mom who is trying to figure out how to help her son in the best way. You, OTOH, are not a help at all. Thank you for verbalizing what I was thinking when I originally read that post. I also wonder why the op moving on is such a negative thing. Should she be wallowing and lamenting her marriage to a manipulative and selfish man? Why shouldn’t she be in a happy relationship, seems to me modeling a healthy relationship is a positive thing for her sons. Of course the kids are mourning the loss of their parent's marriage, but they need to learn to accept that their parents aren’t married and that is why she had them in counseling. Adults shouldn’t stay in unhealthy and unhappy marriages because it would be too hard on the kids. I honestly don’t see why kibblesandbits thinks the op should share the blame in this situation. I have no idea the circumstances of the divorce, but it seems to me that she has done what she could to help her boys with the reality of the situation and her ex is the one who is actively sabotaging it. |
|
|
|
Post by refugeepea on May 24, 2021 15:37:06 GMT
I think as a 15 year old, I'd want to know the truth about the divorce.
|
|
craftymom101
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,786
|
Post by craftymom101 on May 24, 2021 15:40:33 GMT
My ex met his current wife three months after we split (not three months after our divorce was finalized... three months after we separated).
She was not the first woman he dated after we separated. I believe she was the 4th or 5th.
My SO is amazing and I am beyond lucky to have found him. He is the person I plan on being with for the rest of my life and we have a fantastic relationship.
I have made plenty of mistakes in my life, including after my divorce, but my SO isn’t one of them and it’s because of him I am as strong and capable as I am.
I know change is hard and kids have a tough time adjusting. My son told me that it’s okay with him that his father has a new gf (now wife) and he wants my ex to be happy, but he doesn’t “think it’s right” that I move on and be with anyone else.
Was I supposed to stay single because my kid “doesn’t think it’s right”? Believe me, the mom guilt is real and I agonized over my decision to date and bring my SO into my kids’ lives.
|
|
|
|
Post by hop2 on May 24, 2021 15:47:03 GMT
I don’t really have a lot of helpful advice. But I just wanted to point out that teenagers of approximately that age spending all of their time off alone in their rooms is not an unusual behavior even for teens not from divorced families. Not all teens, but many teens have this behavior.
And both of mine have said how horrible a mother I was in their teens. And at least my oldest has come back to me to amend that statement. They also thanked me for teaching them some of the mundane life skills I *made* them learn after seeing how many of their peers did not know how to do some simple tasks such as grocery shop, do laundry, call to order something, and even drive. They had no idea that some people are not taught these things until they met some of them at college.
Hang in there mom, continue to love & support him as much as you can.
Your ex is a really horrible parent to not allow your child the necessary mental health appointments that would help him make sense of his life, his anger and his confusion. That is very sad that your Ex is doing to his son.
|
|
|
|
Post by malibou on May 24, 2021 15:52:26 GMT
Just a thought, what about Ds getting a summer job. It would get him out of the house, give him something new to focus on, and give him some pocket money.
|
|
peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,969
|
Post by peppermintpatty on May 24, 2021 16:18:55 GMT
Sounds like your son needs to hear the truth about his father and what happened between the two of you. I know that won't be a popular sentiment but it sounds like you are doing everything you can with no results and your ex is fighting you left and right. It also sounds like your ex is probably continuing to bad mouth you to your kids.
|
|
|
|
Post by Scrapper100 on May 24, 2021 16:32:17 GMT
That sounds like an incredibly difficult situation, and I am so very sorry you're going through that. I would be devastated and so hurt if either of my kids were like that. The two obvious things that come to mind (therapy and him going to live with his dad) are not an option, as you've mentioned in subsequent posts. Ugh, I'm at a loss, I can only imagine how helpless you must feel. Oh, and your ex is a piece of shit. What a vindictive little man. And a coward too. He says that he won't have one son live with him without the other, and he knows damn well that you would never allow him to have custody of both kids. Chances are he doesn't want full time custody, and this way he gets to make you look like the bad guy again. "Oh son, I would love for you and your brother to live with me, but mum won't allow it." I would so bet he is playing that card since he has lied about so many other things. What a hard place to be right now. I agree to with the he is just a small spiteful human. |
|
