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Post by laureljean on Nov 23, 2014 1:46:36 GMT
"No" means No whether you are:
On a date
Invited to a celebrity's hotel room
A child on a playground
A student in a PE class who doesn't want to go in the pool
An employee who is asked to do something you consider unethical
A person under the influence of drugs (including alcohol)
Someone nobody approves of
Anyone else who says, "No"
That's all. Carry on.
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Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,768 
Location: Kentucky
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Post by Kerri W on Nov 23, 2014 2:11:20 GMT
I agree 100%.
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Post by ScrapsontheRocks on Nov 23, 2014 6:40:56 GMT
When you are a friend (or at least I thought I was) who has always supported your business but has decided to follow the advice of Richard Gere's character in the movie "Pretty Woman" that people are not nice to people, only credit cards.
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M in Carolina
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,128
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Post by M in Carolina on Nov 23, 2014 6:57:35 GMT
NO is also NO in the middle or right before the grand finale of sex, too. Even BDSM people have safe words that mean NO.
When I tried to report my rape to a counselor at school, I was told that doctors can't rape patients because they're doctors, can touch you anywhere, and you can't say no. This was in the 1980s, not 1880.
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Post by lesleyanne on Nov 23, 2014 8:10:57 GMT
In some circumstances a "no" makes you a pretty crappy human being.
Example: two students who need a shared community resource like a pair of scissors. "May I have those when you are done?" Says one child. "No," says the other. That is unreasonable.
There are times when a "no" is not a socially and morally acceptable response. I would agree with almost all your OP list but I don't think it's a good idea to be so strident.
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ingrid
Full Member
Posts: 490
Jun 26, 2014 0:52:41 GMT
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Post by ingrid on Nov 23, 2014 8:21:56 GMT
Was the definition of "no" actually being debated on another thread? I never know if I've missed something or we're just doing a "state the obvious" kind of thing when threads like this are created  |
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Post by lucyg on Nov 23, 2014 20:15:31 GMT
Was the definition of "no" actually being debated on another thread? I never know if I've missed something or we're just doing a "state the obvious" kind of thing when threads like this are created The girl going into the swimming pool thread. Her attorney is trying to make the whole thing sound sexual and there was some discussion about what situations no-means-no applies to. Personally, I believe that anyone can say no at any time. But sometimes there will be consequences to saying no at what may be an inappropriate time. He shouldn't have responded by trying to force her into the pool ... but she also didn't really have the right to say no, I won't get in, any more than a student has the right to say no, I won't do my homework. |
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Post by cadoodlebug on Nov 23, 2014 20:44:30 GMT
"No" means No whether you are: On a date Invited to a celebrity's hotel roomA child on a playground A student in a PE class who doesn't want to go in the pool An employee who is asked to do something you consider unethical A person under the influence of drugs (including alcohol) Someone nobody approves of Anyone else who says, "No" That's all. Carry on. |
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Nov 23, 2014 22:51:33 GMT
Ugh!!! When are we going to stop blaming the victim!!!
Going into a married man's hotel room is not a problem.
SLIPPING A WOMAN A RUFFEE AN RAPING THEM IS!!
When discussing rape and sexual assault it is time to STOP looking at what the victim did.. and start focusing on teaching the perps to control themselves!!!
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julieb
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,845
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Post by julieb on Nov 23, 2014 22:55:13 GMT
Was the definition of "no" actually being debated on another thread? I never know if I've missed something or we're just doing a "state the obvious" kind of thing when threads like this are created The girl going into the swimming pool thread. Her attorney is trying to make the whole thing sound sexual and there was some discussion about what situations no-means-no applies to. Personally, I believe that anyone can say no at any time. But sometimes there will be consequences to saying no at what may be an inappropriate time. He shouldn't have responded by trying to force her into the pool ... but she also didn't really have the right to say no, I won't get in, any more than a student has the right to say no, I won't do my homework. Of course she had the right to say no. However, she would have to suffer the consequences of saying no. Detention, a failing grade, etc., but she certainly shouldn't be forced, physically, into a pool. |
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Post by freecharlie on Nov 23, 2014 22:58:02 GMT
Ugh!!! When are we going to stop blaming the victim!!! Going into a married man's hotel room is not a problem. SLIPPING A WOMAN A RUFFEE AN RAPING THEM IS!! When discussing rape and sexual assault it is time to STOP looking at what the victim did.. and start focusing on teaching the perps to control themselves!!! because only by looking at what the victim did can we educate our girls about situations that may put them in more danger. And while no absolutely means no, going to a hotel room with a man by you self is riskier that going to a busy restaurant with one. Running on a dark isolate path by yourself is more dangerous than running with a partner. |
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Post by anxiousmom on Nov 23, 2014 22:59:39 GMT
Beyond all that, in a day to day application of the word "no" ... I should be able to politely say "no thank you" when asked if I would head a committee, join a group, take over a task, contribute to a charity...and have that be recognized as meaning I would NOT like to participate.
And I would like that "no thank you" to be graciously received without making me feel guilty or made to feel as though I am letting the world down and it will end if I don't say yes or any such thing.
Sometimes it isn't in the saying of no, but in the person who won't accept no as the answer.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Nov 23, 2014 23:03:14 GMT
Ugh!!! When are we going to stop blaming the victim!!! Going into a married man's hotel room is not a problem. SLIPPING A WOMAN A RUFFEE AN RAPING THEM IS!! When discussing rape and sexual assault it is time to STOP looking at what the victim did.. and start focusing on teaching the perps to control themselves!!! |
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Post by Eddie-n-Harley on Nov 23, 2014 23:17:11 GMT
In some circumstances a "no" makes you a pretty crappy human being. Example: two students who need a shared community resource like a pair of scissors. "May I have those when you are done?" Says one child. "No," says the other. That is unreasonable. There are times when a "no" is not a socially and morally acceptable response. I would agree with almost all your OP list but I don't think it's a good idea to be so strident. Right. Try saying "no" when the cop asks you to please show him your identification during a traffic stop. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 3:18:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 23:23:39 GMT
In some circumstances a "no" makes you a pretty crappy human being. Example: two students who need a shared community resource like a pair of scissors. "May I have those when you are done?" Says one child. "No," says the other. That is unreasonable. There are times when a "no" is not a socially and morally acceptable response. I would agree with almost all your OP list but I don't think it's a good idea to be so strident. Right. Try saying "no" when the cop asks you to please show him your identification during a traffic stop. In both instances you CAN say no... just be aware that "no" can have consequences. Each person decides for themself if the consequence is worth it or not. |
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luckyexwife
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,067
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Post by luckyexwife on Nov 23, 2014 23:24:39 GMT
Ugh!!! When are we going to stop blaming the victim!!! Going into a married man's hotel room is not a problem. SLIPPING A WOMAN A RUFFEE AN RAPING THEM IS!! When discussing rape and sexual assault it is time to STOP looking at what the victim did.. and start focusing on teaching the perps to control themselves!!! because only by looking at what the victim did can we educate our girls about situations that may put them in more danger. And while no absolutely means no, going to a hotel room with a man by you self is riskier that going to a busy restaurant with one. Running on a dark isolate path by yourself is more dangerous than running with a partner. Why can't we do both? Educate men AND women? Boys need to be taught to respect women, and women need to be taught to respect men.
On a different topic on this thread, I remember when I had go to a two week training for a new job. All the trainees stayed in a hotel. The main trainer was a male, and he would come to the hotel to see how we were doing. He would not step foot into any of our hotel rooms. He brought a door stopper with him, and he would stand in the hallway with the door propped open to chat for a few minutes before going on to the next room. I thought that was a great way to protect both himself, as well as all of us trainees.
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Post by freecharlie on Nov 23, 2014 23:28:07 GMT
because only by looking at what the victim did can we educate our girls about situations that may put them in more danger. And while no absolutely means no, going to a hotel room with a man by you self is riskier that going to a busy restaurant with one. Running on a dark isolate path by yourself is more dangerous than running with a partner. Why can't we do both? Educate men AND women? Boys need to be taught to respect women, and women need to be taught to respect men.
On a different topic on this thread, I remember when I had go to a two week training for a new job. All the trainees stayed in a hotel. The main trainer was a male, and he would come to the hotel to see how we were doing. He would not step foot into any of our hotel rooms. He brought a door stopper with him, and he would stand in the hallway with the door propped open to chat for a few minutes before going on to the next room. I thought that was a great way to protect both himself, as well as all of us trainees.
we can do both, but the quote I was referring to wanted us to STOP talking about what the victim did. I think doing both is beneficial to both sexes. I think ignoring what a woman can do to help keep herself safe is dangerous. |
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Deleted
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May 7, 2024 3:18:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 23:32:44 GMT
It's total rubbish to say that men can't control themselves, they aren't animals. They know the difference between right and wrong.
I seriously thought that we'd moved on from the type of thinking that men are controlled by lust and lust alone and that it should be used as an excuse to blame women for their behaviour.
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Post by birukitty on Nov 24, 2014 0:14:24 GMT
It's total rubbish to say that men can't control themselves, they aren't animals. They know the difference between right and wrong. I seriously thought that we'd moved on from that the type of thinking that men are controlled by lust and lust alone and that it should be used as an excuse to blame women for their behaviour. Totally agree. 20 years ago when I was a young, hot divorcee. I had done some photography work for a celebrity singer and his back up musician who was coming out with his own first 2 albums (starting off on his own career). I'd shoot the concerts whenever they came to town and we became friends, just enjoying talking together after the sessions. Anyway one year we hadn't quite finished our conversation and he invited me up to his hotel room. I had an hour's drive back to my own home. We were both single at the time and yes, anything could have happened, but it didn't. We were friends and we kept it on a friendly level. He never laid a finger on me and I know for a fact that he wasn't/isn't gay-he's married now with children. Did I want something to happen? Maybe. I was attracted to him, but I'd been through a rough divorce and I wasn't ready for any kind of interaction like that. He knew that, and I'm glad we decided to just stay friends. So I agree-men certainly can control themselves. At least decent, British men can! Debbie in MD. |
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Post by cadoodlebug on Nov 24, 2014 0:14:29 GMT
It's total rubbish to say that men can't control themselves, they aren't animals. They know the difference between right and wrong. I seriously thought that we'd moved on from the type of thinking that men are controlled by lust and lust alone and that it should be used as an excuse to blame women for their behaviour. |
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Post by maryland on Nov 24, 2014 1:10:32 GMT
I agree, and when a boy says no, it means no. Not just for girls, equally important for everyone in many situations!
And yes, men can control themselves just as women can! Of course there are bad women out there and bad men out there. But most men and women are good people and would not take advantage of others.
Just read the other responses, and of course, there are situations where you have to do what you are asked (the example about showing your license, etc.) |
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Nov 24, 2014 1:56:06 GMT
Ugh!!! When are we going to stop blaming the victim!!! Going into a married man's hotel room is not a problem. SLIPPING A WOMAN A RUFFEE AN RAPING THEM IS!! When discussing rape and sexual assault it is time to STOP looking at what the victim did.. and start focusing on teaching the perps to control themselves!!! The ONLY way we will reduce sexual assaults is by teaching perps to control themselves.. it starts at a young age and by first understanding... THE issue is 100% with the perps and 0% with their victims. When we stop focusing on what the victim did and start focusing on what we are doing as a society that allows men (as it is mostly men ) to treat women this way. THEN we will see change. Read the Rolling Stone Article about UVA and sexual assaults it really brings to light why men think they can act this way... and it has to do with them getting away with it. |
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Post by freecharlie on Nov 24, 2014 2:01:41 GMT
I disagree that it is the ONLY way. I think education all around is how we reduce it. We teach girls not to leave their drinks unattended, we teach friends to watch out for each other and say something or step in if needed, we teach bar employees to be on the lookout for someone spiking a drink.
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Post by lucyg on Nov 24, 2014 3:07:58 GMT
The girl going into the swimming pool thread. Her attorney is trying to make the whole thing sound sexual and there was some discussion about what situations no-means-no applies to. Personally, I believe that anyone can say no at any time. But sometimes there will be consequences to saying no at what may be an inappropriate time. He shouldn't have responded by trying to force her into the pool ... but she also didn't really have the right to say no, I won't get in, any more than a student has the right to say no, I won't do my homework. Of course she had the right to say no. However, she would have to suffer the consequences of saying no. Detention, a failing grade, etc., but she certainly shouldn't be forced, physically, into a pool. I should have said "she had no business" saying no, rather than "she didn't have the right" to say no. |
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caro
Drama Llama
Refupea 1130
Posts: 5,222
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Post by caro on Nov 24, 2014 4:15:32 GMT
Doesn't the word no mean the same in any language.?
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Post by freecharlie on Nov 24, 2014 5:40:26 GMT
Doesn't the word no mean the same in any language.? I doubt it. I think the tone of voice might be very similar though |
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Southern Side eyed Pea 
