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Post by cindosha on Apr 27, 2022 16:06:30 GMT
School of choice is available almost everywhere. Only if you can afford it! The school of choice I was referring to was obviously not private schools. We are talking about the disadvantaged here. It was a school in your city in a different school district.
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,002
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on Apr 27, 2022 16:19:45 GMT
School of choice is available almost everywhere. Only if you can afford it! The school of choice I was referring to was obviously not private schools. We are talking about the disadvantaged here. It was a school in your city in a different school district. And how do kids travel from their neighborhood to a school in a different school district?
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Post by rainangel on Apr 27, 2022 16:44:17 GMT
Systemic changes.
You don't need to be tougher on crime. You need to change the way you think about crime. Have a look at statistics of how countries handle their criminals. There is a reason certain countries have a very low recidivism rate, and others don't.
You need a deterrent to people committing crimes. They need to think twice about what the consequences could be. Systemic changes so far have not worked. Strange how it has worked in other countries, but not in yours though. Once again proving that USA is in dire need of major systemic change.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Apr 27, 2022 16:49:24 GMT
No, deterrence does not work. I don’t care about your logic. Evidence, facts and studies show deterrence does not work. Maybe if lots of people are telling you that your logic is flawed, there’s something to that. No, there has not been systematic change in this country. Millions of Americans do not have the benefit of generational wealth. Millions of Americans can’t afford to go to college. Millions of Americans work hard but don’t earn a living wage. Millions of Americans can’t afford housing. Millions of Americans can’t afford health care. Millions of Americans are stuck in an unbreakable cycle of poverty. And the wealth gap is only widening. The top 10% gained more wealth over the last 2 years while the bottom 30% are worse off. Free K-12 education is not the solution to crime and will not prevent crime when there are massive disparities between low income schools and areas with significantly more funding. School choice is not available everywhere and is not the solution. There will always be significant disparities as long as we primarily fund schools through property taxes. Your premise that millions have risen out of poverty, everyone can just pull themselves up by the bootstrap is really flawed and uniformed. And no, most of those changes have not been tried on a large scale. We do not have affordable housing, we do not have preschool for everyone etc. We do not have enough mental health resources, drug treatment etc. Lead is still a problem, just look at the recent disaster in Flint, Michigan. you are giving it SUCH a valiant effort... I applaud your persistence that you keep trying to reach her.
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Post by busy on Apr 27, 2022 16:55:29 GMT
I know I engaged to begin with, but there's zero point in doing so. It's clear she's got no interest in actually considering anything that's said. She just gets off on riling people up and egging them on.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 27, 2022 17:20:41 GMT
School of choice is available almost everywhere. Only if you can afford it! The school of choice I was referring to was obviously not private schools. We are talking about the disadvantaged here. It was a school in your city in a different school district. Each town is a separate school district. To go to another town you must pay tuition and provide your own transportation.
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Post by aj2hall on Apr 27, 2022 17:31:53 GMT
I know I engaged to begin with, but there's zero point in doing so. It's clear she's got no interest in actually considering anything that's said. She just gets off on riling people up and egging them on. I know, I'm guilty of getting sucked in, too. She just keeps repeating the same falsehoods and Republican/Fox talking points.
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Post by cindosha on Apr 27, 2022 18:26:08 GMT
The school of choice I was referring to was obviously not private schools. We are talking about the disadvantaged here. It was a school in your city in a different school district. And how do kids travel from their neighborhood to a school in a different school district? some districts bus them or they can get public transportation or their parents can drive them.
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Post by cindosha on Apr 27, 2022 18:28:28 GMT
You need a deterrent to people committing crimes. They need to think twice about what the consequences could be. Systemic changes so far have not worked. Strange how it has worked in other countries, but not in yours though. Once again proving that USA is in dire need of major systemic change. That's my point exactly, it doesn't work. Nothing they have been doing for decades has decreased crime in major cities (and not just major cities) in this country.
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Post by cindosha on Apr 27, 2022 18:30:14 GMT
I know I engaged to begin with, but there's zero point in doing so. It's clear she's got no interest in actually considering anything that's said. She just gets off on riling people up and egging them on. It's just a different point of view...I guess you can't deal with anyone who has a differing viewpoint or idea. That is what is going to make watching what happens with Twitter be so fun...
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Post by cindosha on Apr 27, 2022 18:34:57 GMT
I know I engaged to begin with, but there's zero point in doing so. It's clear she's got no interest in actually considering anything that's said. She just gets off on riling people up and egging them on. I know, I'm guilty of getting sucked in, too. She just keeps repeating the same falsehoods and Republican/Fox talking points. There is nothing false about what I said. Defunding the police, bail reform, letting criminals walk into stores with no concern about getting arrested/charged/convicted and early release are what are happening. Not sure what the falsehoods are. All of those things happened and are happening.
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Post by cindosha on Apr 27, 2022 18:40:07 GMT
The school of choice I was referring to was obviously not private schools. We are talking about the disadvantaged here. It was a school in your city in a different school district. Each town is a separate school district. To go to another town you must pay tuition and provide your own transportation. Not everywhere. There is no tuition in public schools here. Some districts provide the bussing.
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,002
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on Apr 27, 2022 18:44:32 GMT
And how do kids travel from their neighborhood to a school in a different school district? some districts bus them or they can get public transportation or their parents can drive them. Not everyone has a car and not everyone can afford public transport. Not every city has great public transportation. That makes a really long day for students as well.
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,002
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on Apr 27, 2022 18:47:27 GMT
Please provide all of the evidence of police defunding and how that has affected violence in any city. Please provide evidence of criminals walking into stores without any fear of being arrested. If they are all happening and have happened on a regular basis with statistical analysis, please provide your sources/evidence.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Apr 27, 2022 19:16:33 GMT
I agree that there needs to be a deterrent (and I think there already are several reasons why most people don't commit crimes). I also think it is important to look at WHY people commit crimes. The list above is a very comprehensive list and shows how we can continue to improve our society in various ways. The benefit of that would hopefully be less crime, in addition to many other benefits. Using critical thinking to examine the complexities of this issue would go a long way to making improvements in our society. And doing so doesn't mean that people shouldn't have consequences for breaking the law, or that they are victims and shouldn't be held accountable. It just means that people recognize that it isn't as black and white as "give harsher punishments."
Also, it is pretty short-sighted to think that every school district is like your own. Many places only have one school. Or there isn't open enrollment in the neighboring schools. Or there is a limited number of kids from out of the district that are allowed. Or there are transportation issues.
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Post by cindosha on Apr 27, 2022 19:36:35 GMT
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Post by cindosha on Apr 27, 2022 19:40:24 GMT
I agree that there needs to be a deterrent (and I think there already are several reasons why most people don't commit crimes). I also think it is important to look at WHY people commit crimes. The list above is a very comprehensive list and shows how we can continue to improve our society in various ways. The benefit of that would hopefully be less crime, in addition to many other benefits. Using critical thinking to examine the complexities of this issue would go a long way to making improvements in our society. And doing so doesn't mean that people shouldn't have consequences for breaking the law, or that they are victims and shouldn't be held accountable. It just means that people recognize that it isn't as black and white as "give harsher punishments." Also, it is pretty short-sighted to think that every school district is like your own. Many places only have one school. Or there isn't open enrollment in the neighboring schools. Or there is a limited number of kids from out of the district that are allowed. Or there are transportation issues. I never inferred that every school district was like mine. I never said it was everywhere. I never said it was a solution. I said it was available.
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,003
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Apr 27, 2022 19:51:58 GMT
Please provide all of the evidence of police defunding and how that has affected violence in any city. Please provide evidence of criminals walking into stores without any fear of being arrested. If they are all happening and have happened on a regular basis with statistical analysis, please provide your sources/evidence. It's happening in Los Angeles big time. Its awful, and they are desperately trying to recall Gil Gascon the LA DA. Completely incompetent. Everyone from the police chief down is against him. Every single thing you listed is happening in LA. The criminals know they are no consequences. Its horrible. He and his policies have been a disaster: www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/prosecutors-association-recall-vote-la-county-district-attorney-george-gascon/2832727/Prosecutors' Association Overwhelmingly Backs Recall of LA County District Attorney Gascón Roughly 83% of Association of Deputy District Attorneys members took part in the vote, with 97.9% voting in support of the recall of District Attorney George Gascón. Published February 22, 2022 • Updated on February 22, 2022 at 2:33 pm
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Post by aj2hall on Apr 27, 2022 20:31:05 GMT
I'm not sure you actually read the articles. Not all of them support your point. from the CNN one CNN)One year since a nationwide movement sparked calls for slashing police funding in favor of other nontraditional forms of public safety, it's not clear whether any city achieved anything resembling what protesters demanded: massively defunded or abolished police departments.
"There has not been a universal defund movement across major cities," Cooper said. "I think there was a little bit of retooling of the department budgets, but I can't say that defund has actually played out. The sustained increase in violent crime, the gun violence that we've been seeing, and calls from the community that they don't want less police, they want better police, seems to be resonating."
the MPR one just talks about increased crime. We all know that's happening. There's no mention of defunding the police or people walking into stores. law officer.com I'm sure that's a reliable source and not biased at all unherd - I've never heard of them and they're not listed on all sides. Media bias has them listed as pending with no additional information. Possibly an unreliable source The Newsweek one talks about increases in police budgets. It also mentions cities that cut budgets without a lot of specifics on exactly what was cut. There are quotes from a few individuals but very little evidence or actual facts. The Wall Street Journal one is behind a paywall so I can't comment on that one but it might be an opinion, not a news story. Walgreens are closing and retail theft has been a problem. But if the problem is a result of changes in California law, why are other cities in California not experiencing shoplifting at the same rate? Is it gang related? Lots of unanswered questions. www.nytimes.com/2021/05/21/us/san-francisco-shoplifting-epidemic.html
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Post by aj2hall on Apr 27, 2022 20:54:19 GMT
This has a comprehensive look at police reform and justice in our country, based on research. www.brookings.edu/multi-chapter-report/a-better-path-forward-for-criminal-justice/On police reform However, it is also an indisputable fact that predominately Black communities have higher levels of violent crime. Though some try to attribute higher crime in predominately Black neighborhoods to biology or culture, most scholars agree that inequitable resources related to housing, education, and employment contribute to these statistics.[6] [7] [8] Research documents that after controlling for segregation and disadvantage, predominately Black and white neighborhoods differ little in violent crime rates.[9]
We have aimed to take a deep dive into large policy changes needed for police reform that centers around accountability, finances, culture, and communities. Though there is much discussion about reallocating police funding, we believe there should be an evidence-based, market-driven approach. While some areas may need to reallocate funding, others may need to shift funding within the department, or even take both approaches. Again, with roughly 18,000 law enforcement agencies, there is wide variation in funds provided for policing and how those funds are spent. This is why it is imperative that standards be set at the federal level to help municipalities grapple with this important issue and the others we highlight in this report.
Conclusion The sources of criminal activity and public safety challenges are multifaceted while our responses to them are often singular: more and tougher policing, prosecution, and incarceration. Not every public order challenge is a nail in need of a hammer. If we are to honor the dignity of every person and respect the sanctity of human life, we need a more balanced and diversified approach that recognizes confrontation and coercion are not the only, and often not the best, strategies for protecting our communities. Research-informed innovation that builds a more flexible and effective toolbox of responses is needed to move us towards the more peaceful, flourishing, and just society that is the shared objective of conservatives and progressives alike.
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Post by cindosha on Apr 27, 2022 21:19:16 GMT
I'm not sure you actually read the articles. Not all of them support your point. from the CNN one CNN)One year since a nationwide movement sparked calls for slashing police funding in favor of other nontraditional forms of public safety, it's not clear whether any city achieved anything resembling what protesters demanded: massively defunded or abolished police departments.
"There has not been a universal defund movement across major cities," Cooper said. "I think there was a little bit of retooling of the department budgets, but I can't say that defund has actually played out. The sustained increase in violent crime, the gun violence that we've been seeing, and calls from the community that they don't want less police, they want better police, seems to be resonating."
the MPR one just talks about increased crime. We all know that's happening. There's no mention of defunding the police or people walking into stores. law officer.com I'm sure that's a reliable source and not biased at all unherd - I've never heard of them and they're not listed on all sides. Media bias has them listed as pending with no additional information. Possibly an unreliable source The Newsweek one talks about increases in police budgets. It also mentions cities that cut budgets without a lot of specifics on exactly what was cut. There are quotes from a few individuals but very little evidence or actual facts. Picky, picky, picky! it gets my point across and none of your bad mouthing it can change any of what those articles say. Defund the police definitely caused a spike in crime. You’d be an idiot to not understand it. Criminals committing smash and grab crimes are on the uprise and not enough is being done to stop it. Criminals need to face consequences for their actions period. And harsh ones. That is the only deterrent. And before anyone goes all liberal snowflake on me, I don’t care about criminals, I have zero sympathy for criminals and criminals disgust me for what they do to people and how they destroy peoples lives. None of your nitpicking changes what I’ve linked and your excuses are lame. You can continue to go on and believe that nothing is going on in this country crime wise. A crime is a crime no matter who commits it, no matter who it’s against, and no matter what the crime is. Crime is crime. Just keep your head buried in the sand and keep making excuses for all of your administrations’ poor, stupid, ridiculous choices. That is only one of the reasons Joe Blow’s ratings are so low and why people are sick and tired of this administration.
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Post by aj2hall on Apr 27, 2022 21:40:47 GMT
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Post by cindosha on Apr 27, 2022 21:50:22 GMT
Read my posts again. It doesn’t matter. Crime is crime is crime is crime is crime. And this administration is doing nothing to fix it. I actually don’t expect Biden to do anything because he cannot do anything. He can’t even have a lucid paragraph. But I expect his administration and all of his electees for all of his positions to do something about the pathetic state of this country. And that is how the left is going to lose the midterms. Keep nitpicking though. You’re just helping things along.
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Post by onelasttime on Apr 27, 2022 22:20:12 GMT
cindosha changed the topic of this thread from gun violence to crime in general in her first post on this thread. This thread was intended to point out once again this country has a gun problem. Note “gun related” in the title. cindosha if you want to talk about crime in general then may I suggest you start your own thread about crime in general. What the right is doing is focusing in on the smash & grabs that have been happening in cities like San Francisco while ignoring the damage guns are doing to this country. Fun facts… - It is estimated there are 393M guns in civilian hands. 1/3 Americans acknowledge they own guns. Which would mean 1/3 of the population of 320,000,000+ own 393M guns between them.
- The average number of guns stolen from law abiding responsible gun owners is around 380,000 a year.
- The newest favorite target for gun thieves are cars parked on streets where law abiding responsible gun owners have no problem leaving their guns.
- The majority of these guns are never recovered and often end up used in a violent crime.
- 43% of gang members buy their guns on the black market which is stocked from guns stolen from law abiding responsible gun owners.
- Another source gang members to purchase guns are straw purchases. Someone will legally buy a gun and then sell it to someone who can’t. That sounds familiar.
- This article from Gun Violence Archives list the mass shooting that have happened since January 1 of this year. It’s a long list and it’s only April.
- Gun Violence Archives
There are too many guns in the hands of the wrong people and the red states are making it easier for these people to get guns. We have become a society that if you get mad at people you shoot them. Doesn’t matter if it’s one person or multiple people, you shoot them.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Apr 27, 2022 22:51:37 GMT
Read my posts again. It doesn’t matter. Crime is crime is crime is crime is crime. And this administration is doing nothing to fix it. I actually don’t expect Biden to do anything because he cannot do anything. He can’t even have a lucid paragraph. But I expect his administration and all of his electees for all of his positions to do something about the pathetic state of this country. And that is how the left is going to lose the midterms. Keep nitpicking though. You’re just helping things along. Your responses here are exactly why things don’t change. People like you can’t or won’t look at the big picture of any situation. You just have your first, initial thoughts on something and go with it. There has been attempts here to have a discussion on the issue of crime but you clearly aren’t willing or able to look deeper into the issues. Unfortunately most problems in society aren’t simple fixes, despite what people would like to think. Focusing on the culture wars is what the right is focusing on, and I can see why.
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Post by cindosha on Apr 27, 2022 22:57:37 GMT
cindosha changed the topic of this thread from gun violence to crime in general in her first post on this thread. This thread was intended to point out once again this country has a gun problem. Note “gun related” in the title. cindosha if you want to talk about crime in general then may I suggest you start your own thread about crime in general. What the right is doing is focusing in on the smash & grabs that have been happening in cities like San Francisco while ignoring the damage guns are doing to this country. Fun facts… - It is estimated there are 393M guns in civilian hands. 1/3 Americans acknowledge they own guns. Which would mean 1/3 of the population of 320,000,000+ own 393M guns between them.
- The average number of guns stolen from law abiding responsible gun owners is around 380,000 a year.
- The newest favorite target for gun thieves are cars parked on streets where law abiding responsible gun owners have no problem leaving their guns.
- The majority of these guns are never recovered and often end up used in a violent crime.
- 43% of gang members buy their guns on the black market which is stocked from guns stolen from law abiding responsible gun owners.
- Another source gang members to purchase guns are straw purchases. Someone will legally buy a gun and then sell it to someone who can’t. That sounds familiar.
- This article from Gun Violence Archives list the mass shooting that have happened since January 1 of this year. It’s a long list and it’s only April.
- Gun Violence Archives
There are too many guns in the hands of the wrong people and the red states are making it easier for these people to get guns. We have become a society that if you get mad at people you shoot them. Doesn’t matter if it’s one person or multiple people, you shoot them.
There definitely are too many guns in the hands of the wrong people and the blue states are not punishing the criminals who commit the crimes that they commit by stealing the guns from the responsible gun owners. Criminals are emboldened to shoot people they get mad at because they aren’t punished for shooting them. How can you not see the logic in that? Again, my WHOLE POINT and my response to your original post is that criminals are not punished for their crimes and if and when they are, THAT is when something will be done about it. I believe that was what you were wondering. Defund the police, low or no bail, letting repeat offenders out of jail, and emboldened criminals all contribute to those criminals not giving two shits about the crimes they commit. THAT is what needs to be changed.
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Post by busy on Apr 27, 2022 22:58:48 GMT
I know I engaged to begin with, but there's zero point in doing so. It's clear she's got no interest in actually considering anything that's said. She just gets off on riling people up and egging them on. It's just a different point of view...I guess you can't deal with anyone who has a differing viewpoint or idea. That is what is going to make watching what happens with Twitter be so fun... I'm fine with different points of view and discussion. I've learned a lot here and elsewhere from some conservatives, even when we disagree. However, you are rude, dismissive, provide no resources to back up your assertions, and show zero interest in actually listening or discussing. You just want to provoke. If you won't operate in good faith, why should I?
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Post by cindosha on Apr 27, 2022 23:48:38 GMT
It's just a different point of view...I guess you can't deal with anyone who has a differing viewpoint or idea. That is what is going to make watching what happens with Twitter be so fun... I'm fine with different points of view and discussion. I've learned a lot here and elsewhere from some conservatives, even when we disagree. However, you are rude, dismissive, provide no resources to back up your assertions, and show zero interest in actually listening or discussing. You just want to provoke. If you won't operate in good faith, why should I? You are only fine with different points of view and discussion with certain people. I’ve learned that every time I post something that goes against the left and I am immediately shit on. No one is willing to give any of my views a thought at all. So it is what it is. 🤷🏻‍♀️
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Post by busy on Apr 28, 2022 0:55:20 GMT
I'm fine with different points of view and discussion. I've learned a lot here and elsewhere from some conservatives, even when we disagree. However, you are rude, dismissive, provide no resources to back up your assertions, and show zero interest in actually listening or discussing. You just want to provoke. If you won't operate in good faith, why should I? You are only fine with different points of view and discussion with certain people. I’ve learned that every time I post something that goes against the left and I am immediately shit on. No one is willing to give any of my views a thought at all. So it is what it is. 🤷🏻‍♀️ When you're the common denominator of a repeated issue, it's time for some introspection.
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Post by katlady on Apr 28, 2022 1:05:34 GMT
Based on the number of gun deaths per capita in 2019 alone, states with the most gun violence are: Alaska - 24.4 Mississippi - 24.2 Wyoming - 22.3 New Mexico 22.3 Alabama - 22.2 Louisiana - 22.1 Missouri - 20.6 South Carolina - 19.9 Arkansas - 19.3 Montana - 19.3 worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gun-violence-by-state
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