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Post by canadianscrappergirl on Dec 4, 2014 19:05:53 GMT
I don't get these cops are they stupid, everyone possesses a cellphone nowadays that can video record, most buildings have cameras. Why are they using aggressive force and using a hold that is banned on a individual by all accounts in the video isn't resisting. Sadly it seems to be another case of white officers using unnecessary force on an African American male. Sadly if I was a AA man I would be absolutely scared to be pulled over or stopped on the street by a white cop. Why does race matter? Why not just say another case of officers using unnecessary force. Stop making it about race, it's not. You are right race shouldn't matter but sadly it seems these are the cases that are in the forefront of the news. It shouldn't be about race but I guess to some it is.
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Deleted
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Apr 27, 2024 11:48:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 19:07:00 GMT
I would imagine that his size played a huge role in this, as well as his asthma. His medical conditions really don't play a factor in the determination, as there was no way for the cops to know he had asthma or other problems. Are we going to expect them to have a full medical history on any criminal suspect before they try to subdue them? I'm saddened that he died. I've watched the video over and over, and I'm not seeing what others are seeing. I see roughly 11-12 seconds of him resisting arrest and them having him on the ground and the officer removing his arm from around his neck. It wasn't until they rolled him onto his stomach that he started complaining of not being able to breathe. I'm wondering again if his weight didn't play against him. He was out on bail. He'd been caught doing this many times over. The law is the law. You don't argue with cops, you don't resist arrest, you don't do things that will cause you to be arrested, you don't die. It's as simple as that. If Mr. Garner had not committed the crime, had not resisted arrest, he would be alive today. Had I been on the Grand Jury, that video would not have been enough for me to justify sending an officer to trial for murder. The intent is not there. People talk about an independent party investigating. That's what the Grand Jury was. 23 people on this Grand Jury, 50% minority. They did not find evidence of wrong doing. No matter what we want to say, the cop did not do murder this man. Quite honestly, I'm appalled and disgusted that the only time Crazy Al and his compatriots come out to play is when it is white on black crime. If "Black Lives Matter" to them, then what is he and all of these protesters doing to reduce black on black crime which is the predominant case. White on black crime is minuscule in comparison. Yet they remain silent about that. Charles Barkley got it right. As weird as this sounds, I'm not going to blame his alleged crime of selling the cigarettes on his death.
IMO, this is all about him making the choice to resist arrest. Had he not resisted, it never would've reached the physical level that the incident reached.
We can't allow people to resist arrest.
We can pursue bad cops who harass people (regardless of skin color) We can pursue bad cops who falsely arrest individuals.
We cannot allow people to decide whether or not they're going to allow themselves to be cuffed.
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Post by flanz on Dec 4, 2014 19:07:52 GMT
I believe even the medical examiner ruled his death a homocide by strangulation? I forget the exact terminology. But that video is exactly why I support cameras for cops. How DISGUSTING is it that even with the whole thing captured on film, there is no indictment! I am heartsick and so very angry. I am a middle-aged white woman who is passionate about doing anything I possibly can to eradicate racism and police brutality/misconduct. HOW can I help??? What actions can I take besides marching in protests and going to rallies??? For all of you who are people of color, love people of color, and who face this frightening reality day in and day out - sending you lots of l ove and huge cyberhugs. Wish i could do more! All ideas welcome!
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 4, 2014 19:08:20 GMT
Why does race matter? Why not just say another case of officers using unnecessary force. Stop making it about race, it's not. You are right race shouldn't matter but sadly it seems these are the cases that are in the forefront of the news. It shouldn't be about race but I guess to some it is. I agree. It matters to race baiters in the news and elsewhere who want to continue the racial fight. Neither of these cases have anything to do with race. If we want to change things, lets figure out how to reduce black on black crime. That will make a bigger difference.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 19:15:55 GMT
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Dec 4, 2014 19:23:56 GMT
They didn't give him an opportunity to comply with their demands. He demanded explanation, they didn't think he needed one. I watched the video from the NY Daily News; he most certainly did have an opportunity to comply. Ever watch an episode of COPS? People are always arguing and demanding explanations, even when they've been caught red-handed. No, the cops do not explain anything when they are making an arrest, they secure the suspect first and foremost. It's a safety issue. When will the police take basic human reaction into consideration? Seems they are hell bent on instant compliance and instant domination without any kind of reasonable discourse with a nonthreatening, albeit argumentative civilian. Seems expecting an explanation (when there is NO eminent danger) is cause for physical retaliation. Again, before you've secured the suspect is no time to be conversing. They run, they pull weapons (after all, without them being secured, the police haven't had a chance to search and don't know if they are armed.) Until the suspect is secured, they have no way of knowing if they pose an immediate danger. All that said, this is exactly the type of case that should have caused an uproar. Many of those discussing Ferguson, including me, wondered why the activists were chosing a robber who attacked a policeman as a rallying cry. THIS would be a case to rally around. Especially since it would appear the officer has a proven record of misusing his position: I do agree with you, Becky. You make very valid points.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Dec 4, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
I'm focusing more on the fact of the chokehold the officer used to apprehend Mr. Garner. Wrong. Period. Should they have used force to apprehend him? Was Garner resisting arrest? Yes, he was defensive and argumentative. Was he committing a crime? Yes. But my first point was the officer used a chokehold on the man making all the rest of it irrelevant to me. The man died because of it. Murder, manslaughter, whatever the legal term, the cop is responsible for this man's death. There's a reason why officers are trained and are not allowed to use that kind of force. The cop was wrong. End of story for me.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Dec 4, 2014 19:39:57 GMT
I believe even the medical examiner ruled his death a homocide by strangulation? I forget the exact terminology. But that video is exactly why I support cameras for cops. How DISGUSTING is it that even with the whole thing captured on film, there is no indictment! I am heartsick and so very angry. I am a middle-aged white woman who is passionate about doing anything I possibly can to eradicate racism and police brutality/misconduct. HOW can I help??? What actions can I take besides marching in protests and going to rallies??? For all of you who are people of color, love people of color, and who face this frightening reality day in and day out - sending you lots of l ove and huge cyberhugs. Wish i could do more! All ideas welcome! How can you help, you can go into the neighborhoods and help people, you can tutor underprivileged kids, you can volunteer in their schools, neighborhoods, clubs.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Dec 4, 2014 19:43:39 GMT
Grrr - the board ate my post! Has anyone seen the full coroner's report? The Daily News mentioned that asthma, high blood pressure and obesity played a role in the death, but I'd like to see more detail. The video actually shows a relatively short period of time when the victim is not communicating (he obviously could breath when he's still talking) and in the chokehold. I thought it quite odd that neither the police officers nor the EMTs (who arrived a few minutes later) administered CPR if he wasn't breathing. I'd like to see the full report and what was presented to the grand jury as medical evidence.
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Post by hop2 on Dec 4, 2014 19:47:53 GMT
I would imagine that his size played a huge role in this, as well as his asthma. His medical conditions really don't play a factor in the determination, as there was no way for the cops to know he had asthma or other problems. Are we going to expect them to have a full medical history on any criminal suspect before they try to subdue them? I'm saddened that he died. I've watched the video over and over, and I'm not seeing what others are seeing. I see roughly 11-12 seconds of him resisting arrest and them having him on the ground and the officer removing his arm from around his neck. It wasn't until they rolled him onto his stomach that he started complaining of not being able to breathe. I'm wondering again if his weight didn't play against him. He was out on bail. He'd been caught doing this many times over. The law is the law. You don't argue with cops, you don't resist arrest, you don't do things that will cause you to be arrested, you don't die. It's as simple as that. If Mr. Garner had not committed the crime, had not resisted arrest, he would be alive today. Had I been on the Grand Jury, that video would not have been enough for me to justify sending an officer to trial for murder. The intent is not there. People talk about an independent party investigating. That's what the Grand Jury was. 23 people on this Grand Jury, 50% minority. They did not find evidence of wrong doing. No matter what we want to say, the cop did not do murder this man. Quite honestly, I'm appalled and disgusted that the only time Crazy Al and his compatriots come out to play is when it is white on black crime. If "Black Lives Matter" to them, then what is he and all of these protesters doing to reduce black on black crime which is the predominant case. White on black crime is minuscule in comparison. Yet they remain silent about that. Charles Barkley got it right. As weird as this sounds, I'm not going to blame his alleged crime of selling the cigarettes on his death.
IMO, this is all about him making the choice to resist arrest. Had he not resisted, it never would've reached the physical level that the incident reached.
We can't allow people to resist arrest.
We can pursue bad cops who harass people (regardless of skin color) We can pursue bad cops who falsely arrest individuals.
We cannot allow people to decide whether or not they're going to allow themselves to be cuffed.
I watched the tape and I really don't see resisting arrest. He's talking and gesturing. Probably trying to explain himself. He is not aggressive, he is not violent, he was not going anywhere, he was surrounded. There was zero reason to put their arms around his neck to pull him to the ground. Especially since choke holds are not allowed. I'm sorry, I CAN have a problem with using banned violent moves against non violent people. And in this case I DO have a severe problem with it. There were better ways to arrest him. I can't understand how grabbing his neck is their FIRST move? Who does that? And I do not get my opinions from Al Sharpton since I think he is a lying jerk. It's probably freezing over in hell since I actually agree with that jerk. But in this case I do.
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Post by redayh on Dec 4, 2014 19:51:56 GMT
Neither selling cigarettes nor resisting arrest are punishable by death. It's really that simple. Also, I don't know who has been choked lately, but people who die by choking ALWAYS fight. Until they start to die, that is. It is a natural animal reflex to do so. It's really easy to sit in your perfect peaworld and say what people should have done.
What I am honestly, honestly starting to believe is that some peas can never view certain people as victims, no matter what the circumstances.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Dec 4, 2014 20:07:56 GMT
Neither selling cigarettes nor resisting arrest are punishable by death. It's really that simple. I don't like when people try and oversimplify situations. Your statement is really no more relevant than someone stating the officer didn't intend to kill him, therefore there was no crime. The reality is the officer's actions weren't an attempt to enact "punishment" at all. Any and all suspects are presumed innocent and the officer is not authorized to enact any punishment for any actual or suspected crime. An officer only has the ability to use force to protect him or herself and the public. Unfortunately officers are at times in dangerous situations and need to use appropriate lethal force. In none of those circumstances is whether the crime is punishable by death relevant to the use of misuse of lethal force. ETA - I should state, as I didn't above. I don't think there's any question the use of the choke hold was an inappropriate use of force.
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Post by peasapie on Dec 4, 2014 20:18:46 GMT
I agree with you. Chokehold is illegal. I'm not understanding what happened here, but we definitely need to know more.
With that said, I don't think the criminal justice system "works for" anyone - white, black, hispanic, Asian. That's a misconception. I can tell you about at several times when my son or one of his friends, when they were teenagers, were arrested for harmless things, like sitting in a park playing their guitars at five minutes after curfew time. Now if they had resisted arrest, which they didn't, they could have suffered a similar fate to others resisting arrest. And if we were black, we might THINK it happened because the kids were black.
I do think cameras on police is a safety feature for themselves and for the public.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Dec 4, 2014 20:26:11 GMT
I'm really torn on this.
The chokehold has been prohibited in the NYC PD for over 20 yrs. It should not have been used. Period.
The thing is though, Mike Brown wasn't murdered because he shoplifted or was jaywalking. Eric Garner wasn't murdered because he was selling cigarettes.
Mike Brown assaulted a police officer and then (presumably) failed to comply with the directives of the police officer. Based on the video I saw, Eric Garner failed to comply with the police officer, which then caused more police officers to get involved and it got much rougher than it needed to be. His claims of not being able to breathe are heartbreaking...but I can imagine that many people "taken down" like this make similar complaints and claims that aren't really the truth. Had he stopped resisting much sooner, I firmly believe that it would never have reached that physical point that it did, which cost Eric Garner his life.
Sure, maybe the cops, or even this specific cop had harassed Garner in the past. File a complaint. When an officer tells you that you're under arrest and attempts to cuff you, you cannot resist. Even if you're innocent. You just cannot fight. Be innocent. Get an attorney. Fight charges. File complaints. File lawsuits over the injustice. Fighting the arrest and refusal to follow the directives of the police officers just isn't going to end well...regardless of your skin color.
I assure you that if I was pulled over and got mouthy with the officer, and then proceeded to pull away from the cuffs, that things would get ugly for this harmless, white, overweight, middle aged woman.
I think law enforcement does in fact need a huge wake up call on how to treat people...but the community also needs a huge wake up call to do as the police officer instructs you to do.
(I am wondering though...in both cases, we know both Brown and Garner were "unarmed"...although Brown used his fists as a weapon against the officer. We know that with Mike Brown, Wilson had not yet patted him down, so he had no idea whether or not Brown was armed. Does the same hold true for Garner? We now know he was unarmed, but did the officer at the time know he was unarmed?)
I think the do whatever you are told to do by the police is BS. I know it is what we have to do to stay alive. But we ( and by we I mean young black men) should be able to ask a question. The police have got to be instructed to not use deadly force as a first resort. In many of these cases the time from initial police confrontation to death is a matter of seconds. That is what I think has to change. If the police think someone stole cigarettes or was illegally selling some the result of them resisting the police instructions should NOT be the loss of life. We as a nation can do better.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 20:26:48 GMT
I am not going to express an opinion on this case as I haven't followed it closely, didn't sit on the Grand Jury, haven't seen all the evidence they saw. But I do want to say a couple of things of a more general nature. One, the determination of death by homicide is not a determination of murder. It means any death caused by another person for any reason, and encompasses murders, accidents, justifiable homicide/self-defense, etc. So a determination by the coroner of death being caused by homicide is not necessarily an indication that a murder occurred and someone should be charged. Also, someone who actually can't breathe is not able to say "I can't breathe," or anything else. They can't speak at all. Now obviously this man did die, so something was going on there. But in general, when you hear someone say "I can't breathe," it's safe to assume they can breathe. Sitting with Lucy on this one. Homicide does NOT equal murder/criminal intent. Also, there is great debate on whether the officer used a "choke hold" or not. My husband, former LEO, trained in Judo and all manners of LEO take down and restraint techniques, says that no, it was not a "choke hold", but a head lock. If you can control their heads, you control their bodies. The tactics used were not out of line for the situation. A true "choke hold" would have resulted in the victim passing out in a matter of seconds. He never would have been able to say "i can't breathe". He would have been unconcious. Mr Garner was beligerent. There is no arguing that. When they went to cuff him, he pulled away. In that situation, cops are trained to do what they did...you don't give the perp a chance to escalate once he has shown that he isn't willing to cooperate. You move fast and take them down. This was a huge man, much bigger than any of those officers on the scene. They did what they thought they had to do in that given moment. THAT is "taking basic human reaction" into consideration! If they had let it escalate, the result probably would have been his death anyway, by gunshot wound. They were trying to prevent his death, not cause it. Period. If you don't have any idea about police tactics and the choices they have to make in the heat of the moment, then DO NOT COMMENT WITH INACURATE AND IGNORANT INFORMATION. Now, what happened after he said "I can't breathe", I can't comment on. The video does not show it, and I have no access to the information that the Grand Jury had. But I will tell you this: I trust the Grand Jury system. It has served mankind well since, oh, about the 11th century, and is the best system devised to date, taking the fact that we are all human and make mistakes into account. Those people, who heard ALL the evidence, decided it did not meet the level of manslaughter. Now, though, I can see where a CIVIL suit can be brought against the city, but I do not believe, based upon what we KNOW as fact so far, that the officer should be charged. Now I am by no means justifying his death. It is beyond tragic. But there is far more to the story than just "police misconduct/brutality". And there is absolutely NO racism involved. Anyone who is using his tragic death to further their cries of racism is a moron. A full fledged moron. Al Sharpton, Mayor De Blasio, And the chief race baiters themselves in the WH included. There is a cautionary tale to be told. A tale of big government and progressivism. Mr Garner was illegally selling cigarettes on the black market. A black market created by the very people he and most of the black community in NY and across the nation voted for - Democrats (and Progressive republicans in some cases). In a misguided effort to control the choices of Americans, every level of local, state and federal government imposed unreasonable taxes on cigarettes. They made them unaffordable to the very people who used them/desired them the most - the low income folks, mostly minority communities. So, as will happen, every single time the government tries to regulate something that adults want - people will find a way to profit while supplying the items at a lower cost. Instead of asking why the police did what they did, why dont' you ask why the government set the situation up in the first place. If the government had not made it profitable for Mr. Garner to break the law, he never would have been arrested for the umpteenth time for breaking that law, and he would still be alive today.
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 4, 2014 20:28:21 GMT
Neither selling cigarettes nor resisting arrest are punishable by death. It's really that simple. I don't like when people try and oversimplify situations. Your statement is really no more relevant than someone stating the officer didn't intend to kill him, therefore there was no crime. The reality is the officer's actions weren't an attempt to enact "punishment" at all. Any and all suspects are presumed innocent and the officer is not authorized to enact any punishment for any actual or suspected crime. An officer only has the ability to use force to protect him or herself and the public. Unfortunately officers are at times in dangerous situations and need to use appropriate lethal force. In none of those circumstances is whether the crime is punishable by death relevant to the use of misuse of lethal force. ETA - I should state, as I didn't above. I don't think there's any question the use of the choke hold was an inappropriate use of force. I agree with you on the use of the choke hold being inappropriate. There is still a lot of information unknown, and only the GJ at the moment know the full details. Given the multiple arrests there could have been a known problem from before that we are not aware of that made them more forceful in the arrest. I'm also interested in seeing the timeline from the actual take down to the EMT arriving to his death. My only main issue is that there is nothing to conclude that this happened as a result of the man's race.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Dec 4, 2014 20:29:16 GMT
Oh that makes sense... blame the victim.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Dec 4, 2014 20:31:47 GMT
I don't like when people try and oversimplify situations. Your statement is really no more relevant than someone stating the officer didn't intend to kill him, therefore there was no crime. The reality is the officer's actions weren't an attempt to enact "punishment" at all. Any and all suspects are presumed innocent and the officer is not authorized to enact any punishment for any actual or suspected crime. An officer only has the ability to use force to protect him or herself and the public. Unfortunately officers are at times in dangerous situations and need to use appropriate lethal force. In none of those circumstances is whether the crime is punishable by death relevant to the use of misuse of lethal force. ETA - I should state, as I didn't above. I don't think there's any question the use of the choke hold was an inappropriate use of force. I agree with you on the use of the choke hold being inappropriate. There is still a lot of information unknown, and only the GJ at the moment know the full details. Given the multiple arrests there could have been a known problem from before that we are not aware of that made them more forceful in the arrest. I'm also interested in seeing the timeline from the actual take down to the EMT arriving to his death. My only main issue is that there is nothing to conclude that this happened as a result of the man's race. There is imperial evidence about being black in America, you are more likely to be stopped by police, for no reason, you are more likely to be arrested, and you are more likely to be killed by the police. Did these officers act in this particular instance because he was black, I doubt they even know, prejudices based on skin color are so ingrained in us we often don't know they exist. Did this man's skin color play a factor in his death... the statistics say yes.
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 4, 2014 20:37:26 GMT
That is a huge assumption to make. We all know that statistics can be manipulated to suit any purpose and reveal any outcome we want them to say. The evidence that we are seeing in this case to this point show no racial bias. It's just as likely the man's criminal history and familiarity with the local force is what resulted in his being detained initially. He was out on bail, of course he was going to argue back and resist. He knew if he was arrested his bail would be revoked.
Off to read more about the differences between a choke hold and a head lock. Does anyone have a link to the medical examiner's report. I'm curious if there was evidence of a crushed windpipe or if the heat of the moment caused his weight, asthma and blood pressure to result in his death.
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Post by redayh on Dec 4, 2014 20:42:13 GMT
Neither selling cigarettes nor resisting arrest are punishable by death. It's really that simple. I don't like when people try and oversimplify situations. Your statement is really no more relevant than someone stating the officer didn't intend to kill him, therefore there was no crime. The reality is the officer's actions weren't an attempt to enact "punishment" at all. Any and all suspects are presumed innocent and the officer is not authorized to enact any punishment for any actual or suspected crime. An officer only has the ability to use force to protect him or herself and the public. Unfortunately officers are at times in dangerous situations and need to use appropriate lethal force. In none of those circumstances is whether the crime is punishable by death relevant to the use of misuse of lethal force. ETA - I should state, as I didn't above. I don't think there's any question the use of the choke hold was an inappropriate use of force. It really is that simple though. He is dead as a result of selling cigarettes and "resisting" arrest. And the officers actions were *in fact* an attempt to punish him....not for the cigarettes, but most certainly for the resisting.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
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Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Dec 4, 2014 20:44:41 GMT
I am not going to express an opinion on this case as I haven't followed it closely, didn't sit on the Grand Jury, haven't seen all the evidence they saw. But I do want to say a couple of things of a more general nature. One, the determination of death by homicide is not a determination of murder. It means any death caused by another person for any reason, and encompasses murders, accidents, justifiable homicide/self-defense, etc. So a determination by the coroner of death being caused by homicide is not necessarily an indication that a murder occurred and someone should be charged. Also, someone who actually can't breathe is not able to say "I can't breathe," or anything else. They can't speak at all. Now obviously this man did die, so something was going on there. But in general, when you hear someone say "I can't breathe," it's safe to assume they can breathe. I was watching an interview with Dr. Michael Baden, forensic pathologist. He said that you can in fact talk when you can't breathe. Eric Garner had asthma and a host of other health problems unknown to police at the time. Based on the fact in this case the grand jury had compelling video evidence, I thought they would indict. I heard on the radio today (Smerconish on Sirius), that there was an African American police officer acting in a supervisor capacity who was there observing the takedown but you don't see her on the video. Perhaps her testimony swayed the grand jury.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Dec 4, 2014 20:47:20 GMT
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 4, 2014 20:47:33 GMT
You say punish, I say arrest.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Dec 4, 2014 20:55:00 GMT
I don't like when people try and oversimplify situations. Your statement is really no more relevant than someone stating the officer didn't intend to kill him, therefore there was no crime. The reality is the officer's actions weren't an attempt to enact "punishment" at all. Any and all suspects are presumed innocent and the officer is not authorized to enact any punishment for any actual or suspected crime. An officer only has the ability to use force to protect him or herself and the public. Unfortunately officers are at times in dangerous situations and need to use appropriate lethal force. In none of those circumstances is whether the crime is punishable by death relevant to the use of misuse of lethal force. ETA - I should state, as I didn't above. I don't think there's any question the use of the choke hold was an inappropriate use of force. It really is that simple though. He is dead as a result of selling cigarettes and "resisting" arrest. And the officers actions were *in fact* an attempt to punish him....not for the cigarettes, but most certainly for the resisting. It's certainly says nothing about whether criminal charges are warranted. People die all the time doing any manner of things that aren't punishable by death. Sometimes their death is an accident, sometimes it's murder, sometimes it's natural causes. Stating that their actions weren't punishable by death is meaningless.
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Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Dec 4, 2014 20:55:23 GMT
I don't like when people try and oversimplify situations. Your statement is really no more relevant than someone stating the officer didn't intend to kill him, therefore there was no crime. The reality is the officer's actions weren't an attempt to enact "punishment" at all. Any and all suspects are presumed innocent and the officer is not authorized to enact any punishment for any actual or suspected crime. An officer only has the ability to use force to protect him or herself and the public. Unfortunately officers are at times in dangerous situations and need to use appropriate lethal force. In none of those circumstances is whether the crime is punishable by death relevant to the use of misuse of lethal force. ETA - I should state, as I didn't above. I don't think there's any question the use of the choke hold was an inappropriate use of force. It really is that simple though. He is dead as a result of selling cigarettes and "resisting" arrest. And the officers actions were *in fact* an attempt to punish him....not for the cigarettes, but most certainly for the resisting. Not sure if you know this but the takedown was supervised by an African American police sargent. She is not on the video and did not intervene. While I agree this is a case of excess use of force, I don't think this was racially motivated.
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Deleted
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Apr 27, 2024 11:48:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 20:56:22 GMT
Oh that makes sense... blame the victim. I see no blame there. I see a statement of facts only.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Dec 4, 2014 21:01:08 GMT
I think the do whatever you are told to do by the police is BS. I know it is what we have to do to stay alive. But we ( and by we I mean young black men) should be able to ask a question. The police have got to be instructed to not use deadly force as a first resort. In many of these cases the time from initial police confrontation to death is a matter of seconds. That is what I think has to change. If the police think someone stole cigarettes or was illegally selling some the result of them resisting the police instructions should NOT be the loss of life. We as a nation can do better. I agree with you that we can do better. I actually thought about an old interview I'd seen on a woman police officer when I was watching the initial video. She was being commended for something, but during the interview they were asking her about why she was so effective and she talked about non-violent conflict resolution. She was a slight woman and while she was well trained in methods to subdue suspects who were much, bigger and stronger than her - she knew going into every situation that she wouldn't have the ability to intimidate on size or strength and every physical confrontation would be more dangerous for her than her bigger colleagues. She worked hard in being able to diffuse difficult situations and put a high priority in ensuring that situations didn't escalate.
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Post by redayh on Dec 4, 2014 21:02:54 GMT
It really is that simple though. He is dead as a result of selling cigarettes and "resisting" arrest. And the officers actions were *in fact* an attempt to punish him....not for the cigarettes, but most certainly for the resisting. Not sure if you know this but the takedown was supervised by an African American police sargent. She is not on the video and did not intervene. While I agree this is a case of excess use of force, I don't think this was racially motivated. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I haven't mentioned race once on this thread. Why would you think I thought this was racially motivated? Because I have no clue if race had anything to do with this at all.
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Pearl Clutcher
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Dec 4, 2014 21:07:03 GMT
Not sure if you know this but the takedown was supervised by an African American police sargent. She is not on the video and did not intervene. While I agree this is a case of excess use of force, I don't think this was racially motivated. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I haven't mentioned race once on this thread. Why would you think I thought this was racially motivated? Because I have no clue if race had anything to do with this at all. Sorry, you are correct, you didn't say anything about race (others have) and I shouldn't have assumed that saying he was being punished meant that if he wasn't a person of color he would have been treated differently.
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Post by mikklynn on Dec 4, 2014 21:17:37 GMT
I can't understand there being no charges when it's illegal to use a choke hold. There is a lot of gray in the Ferguson case, but NYC seems pretty obvious to me that charges should be filed.
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