|
Post by papersilly on Oct 10, 2022 22:28:09 GMT
This should be allowed everywhere. My body, my choice should apply to not only abortion, but to every medical decision including end of life. 1000% there are those who will say she had a lot to live for. who she is now may not be who she is tomorrow. but why force her to live just so others can see how it pans out? her life, her choice. whatever brings her peace.
|
|
|
Post by snowsilver on Oct 10, 2022 22:30:19 GMT
I understand she was young, but I would think that she has had several years of therapy after the event in an attempt to regain her life. Therapy that did not work to her satisfaction. Who are we to say she is obligated to live day after day in whatever emotional turmoil she was in? You say that she was too young to make such a decision. What would be an acceptable age in your opinion? I’m not being snarky, I’m seriously wondering at what age you think a person able to make a decision to end their life. That's a fair question, Lexica, and honestly, I don't have an answer. Personally, I do not believe in euthanasia. But IF I did, I don't know what age I think it would be okay. But I do know that I believe that a teenager is far too young to make such a final decision.
|
|
wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,785
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
|
Post by wellway on Oct 10, 2022 22:32:19 GMT
Not too young to have already experienced years of mental trauma though.
|
|
|
Post by gar on Oct 10, 2022 22:33:27 GMT
So again OP, when is an acceptable age - to you?
You read the article so you know she had tried professional help to recover from her trauma. Maybe some suicide survivors do say they are glad they survived but there are so many possible situations and individual circumstances we know nothing about that they cannot be compared.
Would it be wonderful if no one ever felt that suicide was there only way out - of course, but this was not a flippant, spur of the moment decision… this young woman was deeply traumatised and her age is irrelevant.
Would you really insist she lived in mental agony indefinitely?
|
|
|
Post by pjaye on Oct 10, 2022 22:44:44 GMT
There are tens of thousands of people who have suffered traumatic events and gone on to live happy and useful lives. Think Holocaust victims. Or thousands of others. Life is precious Surely if you say you are educated on this topic, you aren't even going to try to suggest that Holocaust survivors don't kill themselves? A quick google search would tell you how wrong you are about that. Some studies put the rate of suicide attempts for elderly survivors at 3-4 times higher than the general population. here's just one link - but feel free to find lots more on your own: Study: Holocaust Survivors 3 Times More Likely to Attempt Suicide
|
|
|
Post by iamkristinl16 on Oct 10, 2022 22:45:34 GMT
I’m not really sure how I feel about this. I wonder what the process is for getting approved?
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Oct 10, 2022 22:47:28 GMT
I understand she was young, but I would think that she has had several years of therapy after the event in an attempt to regain her life. Therapy that did not work to her satisfaction. Who are we to say she is obligated to live day after day in whatever emotional turmoil she was in? You say that she was too young to make such a decision. What would be an acceptable age in your opinion? I’m not being snarky, I’m seriously wondering at what age you think a person able to make a decision to end their life. That's a fair question, Lexica, and honestly, I don't have an answer. Personally, I do not believe in euthanasia. But IF I did, I don't know what age I think it would be okay. But I do know that I believe that a teenager is far too young to make such a final decision. Elise, she wasn't a teenager. She was in her 20’s. If life, at any cost, is that precious to you, I hope that you are doing everything in your power to fight for gun control, because way too many children and teens die due to guns. Refuse to vote for any candidate that refuses to go on the record that she or he will fight for and vote for gun control. Don't vote for any candidate that has blocked gun control with their vote. Give as much money as you can afford to candidates that have a track record of voting for gun control and to the lobbying groups that support gun control. If you aren't willing to do that then the rest of the posturing is just that: posturing with no true belief or conviction behind it. That said, I do believe that death with dignity is preferable to painful suicide. And death with dignity is a process: euthanasia is not dispensed on a whim, unlike lethal gun sales. It isn't for me to decide that someone’s reasons for choosing to end their life are trivial or should be dismissed.
|
|
|
Post by withapea on Oct 10, 2022 22:48:18 GMT
I have no issue with this and wish the option was more widely available. I don’t see mental health as less than or different from physical health. It’s not as if this available on a whim. I have incurable cancer and the fact that I’m going to be subjecting myself and my family to what’s likely to be a very ugly ending to my life weighs on me. I feel like I and others deserve a death with dignity.
|
|
|
Post by gar on Oct 10, 2022 22:50:56 GMT
I have no issue with this and wish the option was more widely available. I don’t see mental health as less than or different from physical health. It’s not as if this available on a whim. I have incurable cancer and the fact that I’m going to be subjecting myself and my family to what’s likely to be a very ugly ending to my life weighs on me. I feel like I and others deserve a death with dignity. I’m so sorry 😞
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Oct 10, 2022 22:51:03 GMT
I have no issue with this and wish the option was more widely available. I don’t see mental health as less than or different from physical health. It’s not as if this available on a whim. I have incurable cancer and the fact that I’m going to be subjecting myself and my family to what’s likely to be a very ugly ending to my life weighs on me. I feel like I and others deserve a death with dignity. (((hugs))) my friend. Your cancer weighs on me, and I don't walk in your shoes or am a part of your life beyond this message board. I wish you peace with whatever ending you decide on.
|
|
|
Post by femalebusiness on Oct 10, 2022 22:51:43 GMT
So again OP, when is an acceptable age - to you? You read the article so you know she had tried professional help to recover from her trauma. Maybe some suicide survivors do say they are glad they survived but there are so many possible situations and individual circumstances we know nothing about that they cannot be compared. Would it be wonderful if no one ever felt that suicide was there only way out - of course, but this was not a flippant, spur of the moment decision… this young woman was deeply traumatised and her age is irrelevant. Would you really insist she lived in mental agony indefinitely? Well yes, yes she would because she knows best. 🤮
|
|
|
Post by LiLi on Oct 10, 2022 22:54:42 GMT
snowsilver are you enraged about the lgbtq+ population commuting suicide at higher rates because of what your religion teaches and what politicians you vote for push? How do you feel about children being killed in school by guns? Enough to vote for change against gun ownership? Yet you're enraged by a grown women wanting to stop her suffering. Please think about it. Missed this the first time There remains nothing in this universe that would convince me that a 23 year-old should be euthanized who is not suffering from a painful, fatal disease. People with mental illnes are suffering from a painful disease that can be fatal. You are minimalizng and being dismissive of peoples struggles here!! 😖
|
|
|
Post by withapea on Oct 10, 2022 23:00:57 GMT
Thank you @gar and elaine , I’m doing well right now. I didn’t mean to be a downer. I wanted to add perspective from someone that is actually in a position to weigh in on this in a more than hypothetical way.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Oct 10, 2022 23:08:25 GMT
Thank you @gar and elaine , I’m doing well right now. I didn’t mean to be a downer. I wanted to add perspective from someone that is actually in a position to weigh in on this in a more than hypothetical way. Aw, honey, you are *never* a downer. You are one of the most amazingly strong women I’ve had the privilege of knowing. I, like every cancer survivor, feels like it is a ticking clock until cancer comes back. If/when it does, I hope to face it with as much strength and grace as you do. And I understand that there are probably times when you don't feel strong and graceful.
|
|
|
Post by myshelly on Oct 10, 2022 23:09:35 GMT
Thank you @gar and elaine , I’m doing well right now. I didn’t mean to be a downer. I wanted to add perspective from someone that is actually in a position to weigh in on this in a more than hypothetical way. I don’t think you’re a downer at all. Your perspective on this issue is incredibly valuable. I hope that you sharing it can challenge others to have the empathy to reconsider their positions.
|
|
kiki
Junior Member
Posts: 58
Aug 3, 2014 19:34:58 GMT
|
Post by kiki on Oct 10, 2022 23:10:17 GMT
Why is it not O.K. for the OP to have her very own opinion on the matter? I don't understand that? The OP isn't being rude or ugly about it, she's just stunned by the story. I am too, honestly! Isn't this a message board that we can have discussions back and forth and not be condensending or ugly to someone for their own opinions? Why can't we ALL try and be better to one another even if we don't agree?
|
|
|
Post by myshelly on Oct 10, 2022 23:11:15 GMT
Why is it not O.K. for the OP to have her very own opinion on the matter? I don't understand that? The OP isn't being rude or ugly about it, she's just stunned by the story. I am too, honestly! Isn't this a message board that we can have discussions back and forth and not be condensending or ugly to someone for their own opinions? Why can't we ALL try and be better to one another even if we don't agree? Totally fine for her to have her own opinion. Not ok for her to want her opinion inflicted on everyone by the law and the government.
|
|
|
Post by gar on Oct 10, 2022 23:14:39 GMT
Why is it not O.K. for the OP to have her very own opinion on the matter? I don't understand that? The OP isn't being rude or ugly about it, she's just stunned by the story. I am too, honestly! Isn't this a message board that we can have discussions back and forth and not be condensending or ugly to someone for their own opinions? Why can't we ALL try and be better to one another even if we don't agree? I, for one, am responding with my knowledge of this OP’s history on similarly emotive, deeply personal topics.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 8:13:23 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2022 23:24:00 GMT
Would you rather she attempted suicide through some other way, survive and have to live with the pain of a failed attempt? Or commit suicide in a messy way and force her family to find her?
There's a reason why assisted suicide is called death with dignity. You have to jump through hoops. You have to prove that your illness is terminal and would be a painful and/or messy death.
We often say putting our pets to sleep is one last act of love because the quality of life isn't there anymore. I chose to euthanize my cat because a tumor had broken through his bladder and he stopped eating, drinking, and going to the bathroom for three days. No way was I going to make him suffer. Why can't I decide the same for myself? We have hospice care for those with terminal illnesses but basically force them to die a long slow death. Being forced to live with the trauma that she was not able to recover from is a long slow death.
|
|
|
Post by littlemama on Oct 10, 2022 23:26:09 GMT
Why is it not O.K. for the OP to have her very own opinion on the matter? I don't understand that? The OP isn't being rude or ugly about it, she's just stunned by the story. I am too, honestly! Isn't this a message board that we can have discussions back and forth and not be condensending or ugly to someone for their own opinions? Why can't we ALL try and be better to one another even if we don't agree? Her post with the bold type, all caps, and referrig to "she was euthanized" is intended to make this woman's assisted suicide into something salacious. "She was euthanized" makes it seem that it was done to her rather than her choosing this solution. She chose this rather than to suffer for 50 or 60 more years. She certainly wouldnt have been allowed to do this without going through a process. None of us knows anyone else's suffering and we dont need to. The woman made this decision with medical professionals and it is her choice to make. If you dont approve, then dont make that choice for yourself.
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Oct 10, 2022 23:28:28 GMT
Why is it not O.K. for the OP to have her very own opinion on the matter? I don't understand that? The OP isn't being rude or ugly about it, she's just stunned by the story. I am too, honestly! Isn't this a message board that we can have discussions back and forth and not be condensending or ugly to someone for their own opinions? Why can't we ALL try and be better to one another even if we don't agree? Not just stunned. She also comes across as dismissive of trauma and the pain of mental illness. Some people are going to take exception to that. She also trivializes the process this young woman had to go through by suggesting in her “18 year old kid” analogy that it was a snap decision with no thought behind it.
|
|
|
Post by LiLi on Oct 10, 2022 23:32:34 GMT
Why is it not O.K. for the OP to have her very own opinion on the matter? I don't understand that? The OP isn't being rude or ugly about it, she's just stunned by the story. I am too, honestly! Isn't this a message board that we can have discussions back and forth and not be condensending or ugly to someone for their own opinions? Why can't we ALL try and be better to one another even if we don't agree? Her post is rude and ugly. Just because she used "pretty" words, that doesn't take away the thoughtlessness of what she said and what it implies.
|
|
|
Post by Bridget in MD on Oct 10, 2022 23:38:43 GMT
I am educated on the facts. I read the entire story. There remains nothing in this universe that would convince me that a 23 year-old should be euthanized who is not suffering from a painful, fatal disease. There are tens of thousands of people who have suffered traumatic events and gone on to live happy and useful lives. Think Holocaust victims. Or thousands of others. Life is precious. She was far too young to make such a choice. It’s not your choice to make. I think that’s the difference between you and me. You believe that and that’s great for you, but you don’t get to force everyone else to believe it just because you do. We should all get to make that choice for ourselves. It’s not up to you or me or the government to control that choice for everyone. That’s why my original reply was my body, my choice. I believe that for abortion. I believe that for birth, for vaccines, for any medical treatment, for consent, for touching, for sex, and for end of life. I agree with this, 10000000000%
|
|
|
Post by snowsilver on Oct 10, 2022 23:53:34 GMT
Why is it not O.K. for the OP to have her very own opinion on the matter? I don't understand that? The OP isn't being rude or ugly about it, she's just stunned by the story. I am too, honestly! Isn't this a message board that we can have discussions back and forth and not be condensending or ugly to someone for their own opinions? Why can't we ALL try and be better to one another even if we don't agree? Her post with the bold type, all caps, and referrig to "she was euthanized" is intended to make this woman's assisted suicide into something salacious. "She was euthanized" makes it seem that it was done to her rather than her choosing this solution. She chose this rather than to suffer for 50 or 60 more years. She certainly wouldnt have been allowed to do this without going through a process. None of us knows anyone else's suffering and we dont need to. The woman made this decision with medical professionals and it is her choice to make. If you dont approve, then dont make that choice for yourself. My bolding was for one reason only. To separate my words from the story to make it easier for those reading my post. That was it. There was no attempt to make this into something salacious. I posted my own personal feelings and I still stand by them.
|
|
|
Post by snowsilver on Oct 10, 2022 23:55:01 GMT
Why is it not O.K. for the OP to have her very own opinion on the matter? I don't understand that? The OP isn't being rude or ugly about it, she's just stunned by the story. I am too, honestly! Isn't this a message board that we can have discussions back and forth and not be condensending or ugly to someone for their own opinions? Why can't we ALL try and be better to one another even if we don't agree? Not just stunned. She also comes across as dismissive of trauma and the pain of mental illness. Some people are going to take exception to that. She also trivializes the process this young woman had to go through by suggesting in her “18 year old kid” analogy that it was a snap decision with no thought behind it. Merge, I have already apologized to myshelly for misreading her original post. The 18-year-old comment was based my my not reading it correctly.
|
|
|
Post by myshelly on Oct 10, 2022 23:56:38 GMT
Not just stunned. She also comes across as dismissive of trauma and the pain of mental illness. Some people are going to take exception to that. She also trivializes the process this young woman had to go through by suggesting in her “18 year old kid” analogy that it was a snap decision with no thought behind it. Merge, I have already apologized to myshelly for misreading her original post. The 18-year-old comment was based my my not reading it correctly. You aren’t getting it.
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Oct 10, 2022 23:59:38 GMT
I have no issue with this and wish the option was more widely available. I don’t see mental health as less than or different from physical health. It’s not as if this available on a whim. I have incurable cancer and the fact that I’m going to be subjecting myself and my family to what’s likely to be a very ugly ending to my life weighs on me. I feel like I and others deserve a death with dignity. I agree with you, and I am sorry.
|
|
|
Post by myshelly on Oct 11, 2022 0:00:34 GMT
Her post with the bold type, all caps, and referrig to "she was euthanized" is intended to make this woman's assisted suicide into something salacious. "She was euthanized" makes it seem that it was done to her rather than her choosing this solution. She chose this rather than to suffer for 50 or 60 more years. She certainly wouldnt have been allowed to do this without going through a process. None of us knows anyone else's suffering and we dont need to. The woman made this decision with medical professionals and it is her choice to make. If you dont approve, then dont make that choice for yourself. My bolding was for one reason only. To separate my words from the story to make it easier for those reading my post. That was it. There was no attempt to make this into something salacious. I posted my own personal feelings and I still stand by them. It’s the words that you choose. It’s the way you talk about this woman and the way you talk about mental illness. It’s offensive and dismissive. And you’re defending it instead of trying to listen to anyone.
|
|
Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
|
Post by Dalai Mama on Oct 11, 2022 0:07:35 GMT
I can't begin to imagine how much pain this woman suffered, and I think it's extremely presumptuous to think that anyone but her should decide when she's had enough.
|
|
pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
|
Post by pyccku on Oct 11, 2022 0:07:52 GMT
Why do we continue to view mental illness as something completely different as physical illness?
If someone has cancer, MS, ALS, or any of a multitude of physical diseases we don't judge them or condemn them the way we do people with mental illness. We don't tell the guy with ALS to "just get up and control your muscles" and we don't tell the person with liver cancer to "just use happy thoughts to power through!" We accept that these people have an illness that may or may not have a treatment, that the treatment may or may not work, and even if treatment is successful that does not mean that they will not suffer.
A person with profound depression or trauma may be able to overcome this illness with treatment, therapy, medication, etc. Do we have the right to insist that they continue to suffer if this illness is causing them pain? The pain may be equal to that of a cancer patient, but because it is in their heads instead of having a visible cause, we tell them that they could just get over it if only they wanted to badly enough.
It's sad that someone who was only 23 was put in a situation where she felt that this was the best option. I'm sure that the decision was not made lightly. Would your opinion be different if she had been suffering from an illness that causes physical suffering? Having dealt with someone who had a terminal illness and wanted to pass without suffering (but was unable to use death with dignity laws), I would say that the age means nothing - someone who is in this situation is in unbearable pain, and it is not my right to insist that they continue in pain.
|
|