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Post by pierkiss on Oct 11, 2022 0:10:19 GMT
Good lord that is a sensational headline. 🙄
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 9:07:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2022 0:12:36 GMT
REALLY?? You think an 18-year-old kid whose girlfriend just broke up with him and believes life is over, should be allowed to make such a decision?? I can't disagree with you more. Yee ole slippery slope I see. I'm sure a panel of experts are going to add relationship breakups to the list For what it's worth though, I had lots of traumatic experiences growing up. Here I am decades later having pushed through all of them and I could bore you senseless with the amount of health issues and mental issues I have as a result of it. I persist in life but I tell you, the cost has been high - for me and others. So all I would say is mind your own business. Take care of your own life and affect others as positively as you can but do not judge the life experiences of others thinking you can convince them it's all just going to work out. Because in a lot of cases it actually doesn't.
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Post by pmm on Oct 11, 2022 0:13:19 GMT
I have no issue with this and wish the option was more widely available. I don’t see mental health as less than or different from physical health. It’s not as if this available on a whim. I have incurable cancer and the fact that I’m going to be subjecting myself and my family to what’s likely to be a very ugly ending to my life weighs on me. I feel like I and others deserve a death with dignity. I can't even imagine how to cope with what you are going through. I wish that I had some wise advice or words of wisdom, I'm sorry seems inadequate. Love to you, your family, and friends.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Oct 11, 2022 0:37:23 GMT
Why do we continue to view mental illness as something completely different as physical illness? If someone has cancer, MS, ALS, or any of a multitude of physical diseases we don't judge them or condemn them the way we do people with mental illness. We don't tell the guy with ALS to "just get up and control your muscles" and we don't tell the person with liver cancer to "just use happy thoughts to power through!" We accept that these people have an illness that may or may not have a treatment, that the treatment may or may not work, and even if treatment is successful that does not mean that they will not suffer. A person with profound depression or trauma may be able to overcome this illness with treatment, therapy, medication, etc. Do we have the right to insist that they continue to suffer if this illness is causing them pain? The pain may be equal to that of a cancer patient, but because it is in their heads instead of having a visible cause, we tell them that they could just get over it if only they wanted to badly enough. It's sad that someone who was only 23 was put in a situation where she felt that this was the best option. I'm sure that the decision was not made lightly. Would your opinion be different if she had been suffering from an illness that causes physical suffering? Having dealt with someone who had a terminal illness and wanted to pass without suffering (but was unable to use death with dignity laws), I would say that the age means nothing - someone who is in this situation is in unbearable pain, and it is not my right to insist that they continue in pain. Thank you for saying this. I sat and cried while reading this post earlier. I thought back to all the suicide attempts I lived through with my DD. Every single time she would say that she was sorry she hurt me. But never did she say that she was thankful it was unsuccessful. When she finally did die, I was grateful that Jeremy found her looking peaceful in her bed. Because really I want to believe that she didn't suffer. I miss her terribly. Terribly. I'm crying just writing this post. But she was debilitated by depression. She had no life. She couldn't hold down a job. She tried and couldn't live successfully on her own. She was here in my house 24/7 with nothing but her online gamer friends. She slept 10-12 hours a day. She didn't have the wherewithal to exercise (she tried desperately). I struggle big time with my own mental health and I even had a hard time bearing witness to such depression despite the fact that I understand it myself. She did not want to be here. snowsilver I get that you mean well and I'm not going to beat you up about this. But really, truly thank God tonight you don't know this kind of life.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,563
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Oct 11, 2022 0:44:24 GMT
Why is it not O.K. for the OP to have her very own opinion on the matter? I don't understand that? The OP isn't being rude or ugly about it, she's just stunned by the story. I am too, honestly! Isn't this a message board that we can have discussions back and forth and not be condensending or ugly to someone for their own opinions? Why can't we ALL try and be better to one another even if we don't agree? She can have her opinion and I can have my opinion that she is a hypocritical vile human being who values her precious AR-15 more than any life. Her fucked up statement that “life is precious” all while being a whacked out republican who doesn’t give a shit about any life that ended in gun violence is vomit inducing. And no, I’m not going to “be better” to this cult member who doesn’t think MY rights matter. Also, in case you are new here, that woman has a 20 year history of posting her evil opinions.
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Post by snowsilver on Oct 11, 2022 0:50:45 GMT
Why do we continue to view mental illness as something completely different as physical illness? If someone has cancer, MS, ALS, or any of a multitude of physical diseases we don't judge them or condemn them the way we do people with mental illness. We don't tell the guy with ALS to "just get up and control your muscles" and we don't tell the person with liver cancer to "just use happy thoughts to power through!" We accept that these people have an illness that may or may not have a treatment, that the treatment may or may not work, and even if treatment is successful that does not mean that they will not suffer. A person with profound depression or trauma may be able to overcome this illness with treatment, therapy, medication, etc. Do we have the right to insist that they continue to suffer if this illness is causing them pain? The pain may be equal to that of a cancer patient, but because it is in their heads instead of having a visible cause, we tell them that they could just get over it if only they wanted to badly enough. It's sad that someone who was only 23 was put in a situation where she felt that this was the best option. I'm sure that the decision was not made lightly. Would your opinion be different if she had been suffering from an illness that causes physical suffering? Having dealt with someone who had a terminal illness and wanted to pass without suffering (but was unable to use death with dignity laws), I would say that the age means nothing - someone who is in this situation is in unbearable pain, and it is not my right to insist that they continue in pain. Thank you for saying this. I sat and cried while reading this post earlier. I thought back to all the suicide attempts I lived through with my DD. Every single time she would say that she was sorry she hurt me. But never did she say that she was thankful it was unsuccessful. When she finally did die, I was grateful that Jeremy found her looking peaceful in her bed. Because really I want to believe that she didn't suffer. I miss her terribly. Terribly. I'm crying just writing this post. But she was debilitated by depression. She had no life. She couldn't hold down a job. She tried and couldn't live successfully on her own. She was here in my house 24/7 with nothing but her online gamer friends. She slept 10-12 hours a day. She didn't have the wherewithal to exercise (she tried desperately). I struggle big time with my own mental health and I even had a hard time bearing witness to such depression despite the fact that I understand it myself. She did not want to be here. snowsilver I get that you mean well and I'm not going to beat you up about this. But really, truly thank God tonight you don't know this kind of life. Jeremy's Girl, hopefully you know I wouldn't hurt you for the world. This was not intended to be about suicide though it turned into that. This was my personal shock that a government would actually participate in a 23 year-old-girl's decision to end her life. I also hope you know me well enough to know that some of the canard being tossed at me here is not at all who I am. I do care very much how you feel and I care what you have been through. And I care what your daughter went through. I'm bowing out of this now. Just knowing that I--with no intention of doing so at all-have caused you additional grief is enough to just leave this where it is. Hugs to you.
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Post by Skellinton on Oct 11, 2022 0:53:17 GMT
I have no issue with this and wish the option was more widely available. I don’t see mental health as less than or different from physical health. It’s not as if this available on a whim. I have incurable cancer and the fact that I’m going to be subjecting myself and my family to what’s likely to be a very ugly ending to my life weighs on me. I feel like I and others deserve a death with dignity. I am so sorry. I wish had the ability to express myself as well as the other peas, but just know that I am so truly sorry.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Oct 11, 2022 0:58:18 GMT
Thank you for saying this. I sat and cried while reading this post earlier. I thought back to all the suicide attempts I lived through with my DD. Every single time she would say that she was sorry she hurt me. But never did she say that she was thankful it was unsuccessful. When she finally did die, I was grateful that Jeremy found her looking peaceful in her bed. Because really I want to believe that she didn't suffer. I miss her terribly. Terribly. I'm crying just writing this post. But she was debilitated by depression. She had no life. She couldn't hold down a job. She tried and couldn't live successfully on her own. She was here in my house 24/7 with nothing but her online gamer friends. She slept 10-12 hours a day. She didn't have the wherewithal to exercise (she tried desperately). I struggle big time with my own mental health and I even had a hard time bearing witness to such depression despite the fact that I understand it myself. She did not want to be here. snowsilver I get that you mean well and I'm not going to beat you up about this. But really, truly thank God tonight you don't know this kind of life. Jeremy's Girl, hopefully you know I wouldn't hurt you for the world. This was not intended to be about suicide though it turned into that. This was my personal shock that a government would actually participate in a 23 year-old-girl's decision to end her life. I also hope you know me well enough to know that some of the canard being tossed at me here is not at all who I am. I do care very much how you feel and I care what you have been through. And I care what your daughter went through. I'm bowing out of this now. Just knowing that I--with no intention of doing so at all-have caused you additional grief is enough to just leave this where it is. Hugs to you. If that had been an acceptable option in this country, my Esther would most likely have chosen it. And there's the parallel which I think you missed. I appreciate you didn't mean to be hurtful. I don't believe you were. I believe you're unfamiliar with this. Because had you seen it, you would understand it.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,531
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Oct 11, 2022 0:58:54 GMT
Who are you to insist others find their life worth living? It’s not a capricious decision that someone can come to quickly and lightly. ”That said, the regulations around the procedure are extremely strict. Four basic conditions must be met: - the patient must be mentally competent to make the decision; - the patient must request euthanasia on two separate occasions, in writing; - the patient must be suffering from the effects of an incurable disease or mental illness, and all treatment options must have been exhausted; - the patient must be experiencing unbearable suffering from the illness, either physically or psychologically.” www.thebulletin.be/dying-dignity-story-euthanasia-belgiumAnd you can fuck right off for being so dismissive of the pain and severity of mental illness. This right here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,531
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Oct 11, 2022 1:01:13 GMT
I have no issue with this and wish the option was more widely available. I don’t see mental health as less than or different from physical health. It’s not as if this available on a whim. I have incurable cancer and the fact that I’m going to be subjecting myself and my family to what’s likely to be a very ugly ending to my life weighs on me. I feel like I and others deserve a death with dignity. Giant hugs
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Post by Skellinton on Oct 11, 2022 1:01:31 GMT
Why do we continue to view mental illness as something completely different as physical illness? If someone has cancer, MS, ALS, or any of a multitude of physical diseases we don't judge them or condemn them the way we do people with mental illness. We don't tell the guy with ALS to "just get up and control your muscles" and we don't tell the person with liver cancer to "just use happy thoughts to power through!" We accept that these people have an illness that may or may not have a treatment, that the treatment may or may not work, and even if treatment is successful that does not mean that they will not suffer. A person with profound depression or trauma may be able to overcome this illness with treatment, therapy, medication, etc. Do we have the right to insist that they continue to suffer if this illness is causing them pain? The pain may be equal to that of a cancer patient, but because it is in their heads instead of having a visible cause, we tell them that they could just get over it if only they wanted to badly enough. It's sad that someone who was only 23 was put in a situation where she felt that this was the best option. I'm sure that the decision was not made lightly. Would your opinion be different if she had been suffering from an illness that causes physical suffering? Having dealt with someone who had a terminal illness and wanted to pass without suffering (but was unable to use death with dignity laws), I would say that the age means nothing - someone who is in this situation is in unbearable pain, and it is not my right to insist that they continue in pain. This is perfectly stated. Mental illness is an illness no less insidious or painful then cancer or any of the other physical illnesses people suffer from. No one has the right to decide if adults continue cancer treatments if they decide they don’t want to continue due to side effects and how it affects their quality of life. This is the sane thing to me. Of course this is all just another very simple case of “my body, my choice”. OP how do you feel about DNRs?
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,531
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Oct 11, 2022 1:07:02 GMT
Why do we continue to view mental illness as something completely different as physical illness? If someone has cancer, MS, ALS, or any of a multitude of physical diseases we don't judge them or condemn them the way we do people with mental illness. We don't tell the guy with ALS to "just get up and control your muscles" and we don't tell the person with liver cancer to "just use happy thoughts to power through!" We accept that these people have an illness that may or may not have a treatment, that the treatment may or may not work, and even if treatment is successful that does not mean that they will not suffer. A person with profound depression or trauma may be able to overcome this illness with treatment, therapy, medication, etc. Do we have the right to insist that they continue to suffer if this illness is causing them pain? The pain may be equal to that of a cancer patient, but because it is in their heads instead of having a visible cause, we tell them that they could just get over it if only they wanted to badly enough. It's sad that someone who was only 23 was put in a situation where she felt that this was the best option. I'm sure that the decision was not made lightly. Would your opinion be different if she had been suffering from an illness that causes physical suffering? Having dealt with someone who had a terminal illness and wanted to pass without suffering (but was unable to use death with dignity laws), I would say that the age means nothing - someone who is in this situation is in unbearable pain, and it is not my right to insist that they continue in pain. Thank you for saying this. I sat and cried while reading this post earlier. I thought back to all the suicide attempts I lived through with my DD. Every single time she would say that she was sorry she hurt me. But never did she say that she was thankful it was unsuccessful. When she finally did die, I was grateful that Jeremy found her looking peaceful in her bed. Because really I want to believe that she didn't suffer. I miss her terribly. Terribly. I'm crying just writing this post. But she was debilitated by depression. She had no life. She couldn't hold down a job. She tried and couldn't live successfully on her own. She was here in my house 24/7 with nothing but her online gamer friends. She slept 10-12 hours a day. She didn't have the wherewithal to exercise (she tried desperately). I struggle big time with my own mental health and I even had a hard time bearing witness to such depression despite the fact that I understand it myself. She did not want to be here. snowsilver I get that you mean well and I'm not going to beat you up about this. But really, truly thank God tonight you don't know this kind of life. (((hugs)))
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,531
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Oct 11, 2022 1:14:57 GMT
Pain is pain. If you can no longer think of anything else, EVER, and you are no longer living life while being ALIVE, what kind of life is that? I don't think that I'm the one to judge others for what they can handle or not. I can't imagine what someone else is going thru. I weep for them. I've lost a few family members to suicide and yes, I hurt that they're no longer with me. It really bothers me that people can't see others pain.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 9:07:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2022 2:14:21 GMT
Comments like the OP are exactly why so many mask. So many hide what they are fighting. Hide the struggles and pain. Like who wants to be told to be thankful and happy? Or told that sooooo many others are "okay"?? That seems to be the anthem of most boomers. Luckily these days most people are not as ignorant about mental health issues.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Oct 11, 2022 2:42:40 GMT
I am educated on the facts. I read the entire story. There remains nothing in this universe that would convince me that a 23 year-old should be euthanized who is not suffering from a painful, fatal disease. There are tens of thousands of people who have suffered traumatic events and gone on to live happy and useful lives. Think Holocaust victims. Or thousands of others. Life is precious. She was far too young to make such a choice. can't it be argued that mental illness is also a painful and often deadly disease? Suffering isn't a contest.
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carhoch
Pearl Clutcher
Be yourself everybody else is already taken
Posts: 2,992
Location: We’re RV’s so It change all the time .
Jun 28, 2014 21:46:39 GMT
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Post by carhoch on Oct 11, 2022 2:56:24 GMT
My grandmother was euthanized in the Nederland more then 30 years ago and my mother belong for the longest time to a association called exit in Switzerland where euthanasia is also legal . Being able to die with dignity and no pain on your own terms is a beautiful thing.
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carhoch
Pearl Clutcher
Be yourself everybody else is already taken
Posts: 2,992
Location: We’re RV’s so It change all the time .
Jun 28, 2014 21:46:39 GMT
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Post by carhoch on Oct 11, 2022 2:56:37 GMT
My grandmother was euthanized in the Nederland more then 30 years ago and my mother belong for the longest time to a association called exit in Switzerland where euthanasia is also legal . Being able to die with dignity and no pain on your own terms is a beautiful thing.
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Post by bc2ca on Oct 11, 2022 3:13:04 GMT
Jeremy's Girl, hopefully you know I wouldn't hurt you for the world. This was not intended to be about suicide though it turned into that. This was my personal shock that a government would actually participate in a 23 year-old-girl's decision to end her life. I also hope you know me well enough to know that some of the canard being tossed at me here is not at all who I am. I do care very much how you feel and I care what you have been through. And I care what your daughter went through. I'm bowing out of this now. Just knowing that I--with no intention of doing so at all-have caused you additional grief is enough to just leave this where it is. Hugs to you. I think you have to accept how deeply you hurt real people, even if not intentionally, by not trying to understanding the level of pain that would have someone making this choice. You really completely missed the point of jeremysgirl 's post. Your post and thoughts on this thread also completely miss the fact that serious and necessary restrictions are in place to participate in a death with dignity option. It isn't a government decision separate from medical decision when you live in a country with universal healthcare. Hugs to you both withapea and jeremysgirl , and everyone else reading who have experienced death by suicide with a loved one.
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Post by MissBianca on Oct 11, 2022 3:24:16 GMT
jeremysgirl I just wanted to tell you how much I value you and I’m sorry you had to see this thread. I appreciate how much you are willing to share with your personal struggles and the loss of your dear Esther. Your candidness has helped me help my daughter be a better friend to some people in her life that struggle with mental illness. And you have also helped her learn to guard her heart with those same friends when needed As for the woman from Belgium. I’m in awe of her strength and her ability to make a conscious decision to end her pain and suffering. I’m sure it was not a flippant decision or taken lightly, and I can only imagine the extra steps, appointments, the invasion of the most private parts of her struggle that had to be taken to be given permission to take control of her end of life path. I’m sure she felt like she was dying a thousand deaths every single day and felt powerless against it. I’m glad she has finally found peace again. I wish we all had the choice to die with dignity if we so choose.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Oct 11, 2022 4:25:49 GMT
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,009
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on Oct 11, 2022 4:29:00 GMT
This was not intended to be about suicide though it turned into that. This was my personal shock that a government would actually participate in a 23 year-old-girl's decision to end her life. You’re surprised that a thread discussing an assisted suicide turned into a conversation about suicide? Really? My feelings about the legality and morality of assisted suicide began to form when I lost a close family member and solidified when I lost one of my best friends. The fact that you are posting this suggests to me that you have never lost someone to suicide or known anyone with severe mental illness. You are very lucky, and an extreme minority.
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Post by Embri on Oct 11, 2022 5:21:15 GMT
Any country that offers death with dignity / assisted end of life has MANY stages of approval, wait periods, evaluation, and stringent criteria patients have to meet. It's not a McDonald's where you can roll up and go "yo, pass me an unalive, thanks."
And anyone who's willing to go through that process is damn likely to find another, more painful, more traumatic way to end their existence if it isn't an option open to them. Stepping out on the freeway. Off a building or bridge. Overdose. Gun. Hanging. Asphyxiation. Threatening law enforcement. The list goes on and on.
Which is worse, traumatizing some innocent motorists/train drivers/pedestrians/family/EMTs by one of the above methods, or having a sanctioned avenue where all the possible treatments are exhausted and psychological support is offered?
Because if someone's truly committed to not living, nobody can make them. And we shouldn't.
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Post by malibou on Oct 11, 2022 7:01:29 GMT
withapea , I don't have the words to express how deeply sorry I am. I wish you peace as you navigate this life path. I'm tucking you and all that love you safely and warmly in my thoughts.
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Post by gar on Oct 11, 2022 8:14:07 GMT
Jeremy's Girl, hopefully you know I wouldn't hurt you for the world. This was not intended to be about suicide though it turned into that. This was my personal shock that a government would actually participate in a 23 year-old-girl's decision to end her life. I also hope you know me well enough to know that some of the canard being tossed at me here is not at all who I am. I do care very much how you feel and I care what you have been through. And I care what your daughter went through. I'm bowing out of this now. Just knowing that I--with no intention of doing so at all-have caused you additional grief is enough to just leave this where it is. Hugs to you. I think you have to accept how deeply you hurt real people, even if not intentionally, by not trying to understanding the level of pain that would have someone making this choice. You really completely missed the point of jeremysgirl 's post. Your post and thoughts on this thread also completely miss the fact that serious and necessary restrictions are in place to participate in a death with dignity option. It isn't a government decision separate from medical decision when you live in a country with universal healthcare. Hugs to you both withapea and jeremysgirl , and everyone else reading who have experienced death by suicide with a loved one. These points bear repeating - and regarding the first point, this isn't the first time that the OP arrives with a dramatic headline, peas post their personal experiences to try and help her see other POVs, then she says she's misunderstood and vilified and disappears. Seemingly without considering people's first hand experiences and without acknowledging that perhaps there are other opinions worth considering. jeremysgirl - I'm very sorry for what you've had to read here ((hugs))
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Post by cindosha on Oct 11, 2022 10:18:25 GMT
Another disgusting post by the control freak who thinks she has absolute right to decide for others what they do with their own lives/bodies. Disgusting and mentally sick. Wait, what? You mean like forced vaccinations???
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Post by cindosha on Oct 11, 2022 10:31:12 GMT
Why is it not O.K. for the OP to have her very own opinion on the matter? I don't understand that? The OP isn't being rude or ugly about it, she's just stunned by the story. I am too, honestly! Isn't this a message board that we can have discussions back and forth and not be condensending or ugly to someone for their own opinions? Why can't we ALL try and be better to one another even if we don't agree? She can have her opinion and I can have my opinion that she is a hypocritical vile human being who values her precious AR-15 more than any life. Her fucked up statement that “life is precious” all while being a whacked out republican who doesn’t give a shit about any life that ended in gun violence is vomit inducing. And no, I’m not going to “be better” to this cult member who doesn’t think MY rights matter. Also, in case you are new here, that woman has a 20 year history of posting her evil opinions. So let me get this straight, she’s not allowed to have an opinion, let alone VOICE her OWN opinion because YOU don’t like her political choices? YOU, my dear (and I say dear with as much sarcasm as I can muster) are the absolute epitome of a crazed far left liberal. Her opinions are not YOUR opinion, so destroy, destroy, destroy!!! I hope you get some mental health help so you aren’t as miserable in your life as you project yourself to be here on this board. You’re going to stroke out with all of your anger against anyone whose political views don’t match yours.
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Post by gar on Oct 11, 2022 10:38:43 GMT
So cindosha how do you feel about dying with dignity, assisted suicide in cases of people who are terminally ill or suffering with a terrible illness, be that mental or physical?
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Post by cindosha on Oct 11, 2022 10:45:37 GMT
So cindosha how do you feel about dying with dignity, assisted suicide in cases of people who are terminally ill or suffering with a terrible illness, be that mental or physical? I think everyone should be able to make a qualified choice in making end of life decisions for themselves.
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Post by bratkar on Oct 11, 2022 10:47:13 GMT
I am educated on the facts. I read the entire story. There remains nothing in this universe that would convince me that a 23 year-old should be euthanized who is not suffering from a painful, fatal disease. There are tens of thousands of people who have suffered traumatic events and gone on to live happy and useful lives. Think Holocaust victims. Or thousands of others. Life is precious. She was far too young to make such a choice. What age do you see acceptable? Age should have nothing to do with it. At her age of 23, she has probably lived through more trauma the last 6 years than most people. Just because one person lived through something so tragic, doesn't mean everyone can. Painting such a broad stroke on people rarely is effective in life.
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Post by peasapie on Oct 11, 2022 11:22:05 GMT
I’m thankful that this woman had the option to leave this life peacefully and gently. I’m sure it would have been incredibly difficult for her loved ones, but at least it spared them the trauma of finding her when she inevitably took her own life some other way. This is exactly what I was thinking. We lost two friends in the past two years. One threw himself off a building and another hung himself. In both cases, family and friends are forever damaged from the trauma caused by finding them. withapea my heart is with you.
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