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Post by wordsmith on Oct 30, 2023 21:37:42 GMT
My mother is a narcissist. She has a fantasy that we are besties, but the reality is that I have a lot of anger and resentment toward her, and even though I’ve been in therapy for years, I just can’t figure out the how of how to detach. A recent falling out after the passing of her father, from whom she was estranged, but to whom I was incredibly close, has led us to be limited contact for a blissful few months now.
It has allowed me to change the dynamic of my faking it and pretending to be OK with her. Now I just want peace and quiet and I want to be away from her, but this weekend she is again pushing for “getting over all this” and wants to return to our prior dynamic where she consistently got her way and I was consistently ill behind the scenes.
I don’t really want to open up any discussion of past issues because it gets me nowhere. She’s not capable of admitting she was wrong because she doesn’t ever think she is. When she contacts me, I am emotionally exhausted, and I feel criticized and bullied and I lose days and days to “sleeping it off” or overanalyzing every nuance of the conversation, or I melt down completely trying to resolve my feelings to a point where I can continue to function.
Does anyone have any books or resources they would recommend that truly tells one how to emotionally detach? If I go completely no contact, then she uses that as evidence of my victimizing her, and that makes things more difficult. If I can just try to keep things low contact, but limit my reaction to her, I could possibly manage this.
I’m desperate for help…real actual, help and not just theory or niceties like my therapist suggesting “you really should go no contact” or “you really should limit contact” or “you must emotionally detach.” Yeah. I know!!! I don’t know HOW to do it. Any advice would be welcome.
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Post by littlemama on Oct 30, 2023 21:41:32 GMT
When MIL starts her shit, I immediately end the phone call. Sometimes it's "I have to run" "I need to get ready", "oh shit, my pasta's boiling over", etc.
I have also gotten really good and ignoring things she says and continuing the conversation as if she didnt say it- I should call her out on some of her shit, but it isnt worth it.
Also, I rarely call her, certainly never to just chat. It helps limit the bs. If I need something, then I start with, "quick question, Im on my way out". She will invariably ask where- because she likes to decide if it is worthy or not. 🙄
I have always known that she was selfish, but the way she has acted since her husband was diagnosed with cancer has really brought that into the light.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 30, 2023 21:57:32 GMT
So I just went through this with a family member. How is by blocking. I blocked and unfriended on all social media and blocked all incoming numbers. I'm done - there is nothing to discuss, there is no book that will help, I just have to complete stop all contact with this toxic individual.
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Post by Linda on Oct 30, 2023 22:01:29 GMT
I've heard good things from friends about the book Boundaries
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maryannscraps
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,731
Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
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Post by maryannscraps on Oct 30, 2023 22:01:42 GMT
I haven’t personally had to deal with this, but friends have recommended the “gray rocking” method where you bore the narcissist into leaving you alone. You can google it for more info on the techniques.
I’m sorry your mother is so difficult.
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pantsonfire
Pearl Clutcher
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 4,762 
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Post by pantsonfire on Oct 30, 2023 22:05:08 GMT
You can not detach emotionally until you detach from them physically.
You need to go to no contact.
There are various ways of doing so -
1. Blocking them blocking the person(s) phone numbers, blocking on social media, emails.
2. Writing a letter and letting them know to no longer contact you in any form.
3. Completely ignoring them
Dh decided to write a letter telling his parents exactly why he was going no contact. They have so far respected that (narcissistic alcoholic bi Polar + birthing person who was also mentally and physically abusive and all around abusive narcissistic male)
But really if you want to heal emotionally you need to cut her from your life completely.
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pantsonfire
Pearl Clutcher
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 4,762
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Post by pantsonfire on Oct 30, 2023 22:08:28 GMT
I will say Reddit was a big help to dh and I.
We were looking into books and a lot placed blame on the person cutting ties or there was stiff about regaining trust and along them back in. That was a no go from dh. It was a full on detach. So those books didn't help.
Once he let go of them and any wild fantasies that it would work out (he knew it wouldn't but he held on to hope), he was able to heal.
It's been 1.5 years and he is still healing but things are way better.
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Post by mom on Oct 30, 2023 22:10:38 GMT
My mother is a narcissist. She has a fantasy that we are besties, but the reality is that I have a lot of anger and resentment toward her, and even though I’ve been in therapy for years, I just can’t figure out the how of how to detach. A recent falling out after the passing of her father, from whom she was estranged, but to whom I was incredibly close, has led us to be limited contact for a blissful few months now. It has allowed me to change the dynamic of my faking it and pretending to be OK with her. Now I just want peace and quiet and I want to be away from her, but this weekend she is again pushing for “getting over all this” and wants to return to our prior dynamic where she consistently got her way and I was consistently ill behind the scenes. I don’t really want to open up any discussion of past issues because it gets me nowhere. She’s not capable of admitting she was wrong because she doesn’t ever think she is. When she contacts me, I am emotionally exhausted, and I feel criticized and bullied and I lose days and days to “sleeping it off” or overanalyzing every nuance of the conversation, or I melt down completely trying to resolve my feelings to a point where I can continue to function. Does anyone have any books or resources they would recommend that truly tells one how to emotionally detach? If I go completely no contact, then she uses that as evidence of my victimizing her, and that makes things more difficult. If I can just try to keep things low contact, but limit my reaction to her, I could possibly manage this.I’m desperate for help…real actual, help and not just theory or niceties like my therapist suggesting “you really should go no contact” or “you really should limit contact” or “you must emotionally detach.” Yeah. I know!!! I don’t know HOW to do it. Any advice would be welcome. The problem with people like your mom is that they will NEVER accept limited contact. It's all or nothing with them. Block her in every way you can (FB, phone, etc) and get on with your life. As long as she has even a thread of connection to you, she will abuse that connection. |
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Post by Gem Girl on Oct 30, 2023 22:11:59 GMT
I haven’t personally had to deal with this, but friends have recommended the “gray rocking” method where you bore the narcissist into leaving you alone. You can google it for more info on the techniques. I’m sorry your mother is so difficult. This. Give no feedback. Answer questions (if she bothers to ask you about yourself or anything) with single words. Don't answer the phone or return her calls. When she asks why, say, "Busy." Don't feel guilty about extricating for your own mental health and survival. This type will bleed your soul dry, and it will still not be enough. Good luck. |
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Post by Gem Girl on Oct 30, 2023 22:16:25 GMT
The problem with people like your mom is that they will NEVER accept limited contact. It's all or nothing with them. Block her in every way you can (FB, phone, etc) and get on with your life. As long as she has even a thread of connection to you, she will abuse that connection. Sometimes one has to keep in touch for certain reasons (like not wanting to abandon other family members, or ruin family gatherings if siblings don't see her the same way). But no parent can force contact beyond what an independently living child accepts. They'll try to expand the contact (if for no other reason than to be in control of the terms), but an adult has a choice. Being totally free (when it happens) is a huge release. |
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pantsonfire
Pearl Clutcher
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 4,762
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Post by pantsonfire on Oct 30, 2023 22:22:11 GMT
I haven’t personally had to deal with this, but friends have recommended the “gray rocking” method where you bore the narcissist into leaving you alone. You can google it for more info on the techniques. I’m sorry your mother is so difficult. This. Give no feedback. Answer questions (if she bothers to ask you about yourself or anything) with single words. Don't answer the phone or return her calls. When she asks why, say, "Busy." Don't feel guilty about extricating for your own mental health and survival. This type will bleed your soul dry, and it will still not be enough. Good luck. Dh tried that for 3 years. It did not work. It actually made things worse. |
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Post by Merge on Oct 30, 2023 22:24:57 GMT
Detaching emotionally for me involved a lot of self-talk. When my sister says something ugly, tries to gaslight me when called on it, or "forgives" me for something that was actually her fault, I have a little conversation with myself. I acknowledge in my head that she is in the wrong and that I am not obligated to continually examine my own actions. I remind myself that no amount of talk is going to get her to change her mind - she is incapable of ever considering herself at fault, or of acknowledging past mistakes. I know this about her and because I know it, I'm not disappointed or surprised when that's the behavior she exhibits.
That means that no matter how much contact we're having at any given time, we keep everything very on the surface. I treat her as I would a student with emotional difficulties. I am the grownup, I can only control my words and behavior, and I can do my best to head off or diffuse any situation that might become fraught. I cannot rely on her for emotional support of any kind so I don't go looking for it. I can maintain a very surface-level positive relationship with her and that's it.
I'm not saying it's easy. But the more I remind myself of all these things, the more I believe them, and the less I dread any interaction with her. I have zero expectation that she will ever acknowledge or even recognize the harm she's done, so I'm not disappointed.
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Post by Merge on Oct 30, 2023 22:26:18 GMT
This. Give no feedback. Answer questions (if she bothers to ask you about yourself or anything) with single words. Don't answer the phone or return her calls. When she asks why, say, "Busy." Don't feel guilty about extricating for your own mental health and survival. This type will bleed your soul dry, and it will still not be enough. Good luck. Dh tried that for 3 years. It did not work. It actually made things worse. Grey rock technique can actually seriously aggravate those with BPD or narcissist tendencies. Yes, it can make things worse when dealing with those kinds of people. |
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pantsonfire
Pearl Clutcher
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 4,762
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Post by pantsonfire on Oct 30, 2023 22:31:48 GMT
Dh tried that for 3 years. It did not work. It actually made things worse. Grey rock technique can actually seriously aggravate those with BPD or narcissist tendencies. Yes, it can make things worse when dealing with those kinds of people. Which is what she is. Makes sense. |
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Post by Lexica on Oct 30, 2023 22:38:22 GMT
I sold my house of 44 years and moved to another state. I changed my phone number too. The only person in my family that knows where I am is my son. I have asked him not to talk about me with my sisters, should they or their kids ask him.
I didn’t actually move because of them, but it has been an amazingly freeing experience to know they will not show up at my door or call me on the phone. I suppose if they wrote me a letter it would get forwarded but they would not receive my new contact information.
I had to wait until my mom had passed to move away, and although I miss her terribly, I am so much more free from their constant attacks.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Oct 30, 2023 22:41:59 GMT
My mom was like this and I am in therapy. She died and I don’t miss any of the meanness and BS. I miss her but not enough to want to go to the cemetery (that’s across the road).
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 30, 2023 22:43:16 GMT
The problem with people like your mom is that they will NEVER accept limited contact. It's all or nothing with them. Block her in every way you can (FB, phone, etc) and get on with your life. As long as she has even a thread of connection to you, she will abuse that connection. Sometimes one has to keep in touch for certain reasons (like not wanting to abandon other family members, or ruin family gatherings if siblings don't see her the same way). But no parent can force contact beyond what an independently living child accepts. They'll try to expand the contact (if for no other reason than to be in control of the terms), but an adult has a choice. Being totally free (when it happens) is a huge release. And I'll just say for all those who're struggling with this - it's a trap. I've believed this for 30 - damn maybe more years. I tolerated way, way, way too much abuse to keep the peace and "i can't abandon or ruin family gatherings" - bullshit. Those people are ruining things for everyone else and it wasn't until I acknowledged that and stopped trying to make things better that I realized all I was accomplishing was making things worse for myself. Let it go people - seriously - block, block and then block some more. Those who matter, still matter - those who made a different choice - oh well. I'm not playing those games any more. |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,538
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Post by pinklady on Oct 30, 2023 22:58:43 GMT
I have not read all the replies but for me personally, I just cut the person out of my life. No discussion just cold turkey.
Maybe something is broken inside me but honestly it’s really easy for me. I’ve only had to do it a few times but it was easy, like flipping a light switch easy.
How will YOU do that, block her phone number, block social media access not attend events she’s at and adhere to zero contact. That’s the only way. If you can’t or won’t completely cut the person out of your life, then nothing will change. Additionally, you will have to do the same with people who interfere in your zero contact with her.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,538
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Post by pinklady on Oct 30, 2023 23:04:14 GMT
Sometimes one has to keep in touch for certain reasons (like not wanting to abandon other family members, or ruin family gatherings if siblings don't see her the same way). I could not disagree with more. Nobody “has” to keep in touch with anyone. |
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pantsonfire
Pearl Clutcher
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 4,762
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Post by pantsonfire on Oct 30, 2023 23:14:09 GMT
The problem with people like your mom is that they will NEVER accept limited contact. It's all or nothing with them. Block her in every way you can (FB, phone, etc) and get on with your life. As long as she has even a thread of connection to you, she will abuse that connection. Sometimes one has to keep in touch for certain reasons (like not wanting to abandon other family members, or ruin family gatherings if siblings don't see her the same way). But no parent can force contact beyond what an independently living child accepts. They'll try to expand the contact (if for no other reason than to be in control of the terms), but an adult has a choice. Being totally free (when it happens) is a huge release. No. Nope to the Nope Nope Nope. Dh cut ties with his parents. He told his sibling who gave full support. They are still in touch. Cutting ties with 1 or more persons does not mean everyone will be cut. It's a bull crap trip to to keep someone in line and that is not okay. OP, do what YOU need to do to feel better. But do NOT feel trapped by others to keep contact if you ultimately choose not to. Dh told sibling and trusts them not to say a damn word to their parents. And also said if he found out they were, they would be cut too. Sibling has respect for dh and doesn't want to loose him. You may lose others in the process, you may not. Again it is up to you. Don't hang on to be around others. |
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Post by femalebusiness on Oct 30, 2023 23:29:46 GMT
I don't have any problem cutting contact with anyone. I've had to do it several times for very good reasons and it has been no problem. I just cut it and don't look back.
The main reason is that if I am cutting someone off it is because I basically loathe them so I don't give a shit what they or anyone else thinks.
I think one of the reasons it is easy for me is because my husband, daughter and people around me fulfill any personal contact that I need. Also, I do not do drama.
The easiest way is to just do it, block and don't engage at all. Then surround yourself with people that you enjoy.
If you can't do that then you will keep suffering. I know it is your mother but she obviously doesn't give a rat's ass about your feelings or what you think, want or need. Your mother is the one who should want to take care of you, her child, not the other way around. Don't waste your time worrying about her.
Send her a text and say “I Am Done”, then block her and screen your calls. Refuse to speak about it with her or anyone else ever again.
It's hard but soooo worth it. I wish you peace.
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Post by wordsmith on Oct 31, 2023 0:29:29 GMT
I appreciate the replies, and I welcome more sharing of experiences. I need to hear other intelligent grown women share so I can reassure myself that I’m not alone, and to reiterate that I’m not a bad person for needing to just be done.
I’m an only child. There’s no one who doesn’t support my going no contact. It’s just ME and my ability to tolerate the distress. When I blocked her a few months ago, it was truly because I was at the end of my tolerance for any contact with her and had invested thousands in a family vacation I could not let her ruin.
Now, months later, she’s offended that I didn’t share any details about the trip. She criticized me for sending her terse replies to her emails that sound like I’m speaking to a business partner. I told her she would have to accept that because the alternative was no replies at all.
But then, after the call, I LOST MY SHIT and just flipped out screaming, crying, angry, and unable to get myself together. I’m mad at her but her behavior is absolutely expected and predictable because she’s always been this way. It’s my reaction that I just cannot get under control. I am so angry, and I feel like I have to verbally process the hurt and anger and grief whenever she gets at me.
So, today, I’ve spent the day yelling into my phone doing voice to text notes to myself. It would be hilariously funny if it weren’t so damned sad.
We are heading toward no contact. I know that because she will not allow for anything else. It’s all or nothing, and she will fight me and bait me if she has any way to get to me at all. I don’t know how to cut her off entirely when my daughters (25 and 28) may still have to deal with her in some way.
This low contact has been an effort to just co-exist, but she is, as mentioned, trading on even the tiniest thread of contact that she’s being given. I’ve been gray rocking and not giving her anything other than short neutral responses to an email here and there.
I am very aware of the narcissistic tricks she can use, and intellectually, I know I could dismiss them…but when it comes to it, I just spin out with anger and frustration after any calls with her, no matter how brief.
I’ve lost days and days and days to her issues and I don’t think I can continue to do it. I’m exhausted.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,538
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Post by pinklady on Oct 31, 2023 0:45:43 GMT
I don’t know how to cut her off entirely when my daughters (25 and 28) may still have to deal with her in some way. Your daughters are grown adults. 1) You need to be very explicit with them about your decision for zero contact with your mother and set very clear boundaries with them about your mother. 2) They need to respect your zero contact decision. 3) Their relationship with your mother absolutely can have zero impact on you if you set very clear boundaries. Good luck with all this. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 31, 2023 0:52:06 GMT
Regarding your daughters that was actually my proverbial straw - I’m not teaching my kids that this is ok -my job is is to show them how others should treat them and I finally knew it didn’t matter what extended family thought - this is me showing them what is ok.
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Post by sunnyd on Oct 31, 2023 0:55:23 GMT
The only thing that worked for me was when my in-laws died. My life is much better now.
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Post by refugeepea on Oct 31, 2023 1:14:20 GMT
wordsmith I am so sorry for what you are going through. I don't know the relationship your daughters have with your mother, but I'd let them know what you have decided and they are free to choose how they connect with their grandmother. I'd just be sure to let them know your new boundaries.
I will unfortunately be in an uncomfortable situation with a narcissistic family member over Thanksgiving weekend, where no contact is not really an option. Because of travel time and work schedules we will be there the same time as the drama queen. I choose to use the gray rock method. I will not start a conversation. If she asks me a question, it will be brief and vague. I will be the most boring person in the world. She has a savior complex. Reminding everyone of the sacrifices she has made in her life for other people. So, I will not take up her offer on anything she offers.
I'm a bit envious of those that go no contact. It's hard when you come from a large family.
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Post by tmarschall on Oct 31, 2023 2:33:36 GMT
My mother is a narcissist. She has a fantasy that we are besties, but the reality is that I have a lot of anger and resentment toward her, and even though I’ve been in therapy for years, I just can’t figure out the how of how to detach. A recent falling out after the passing of her father, from whom she was estranged, but to whom I was incredibly close, has led us to be limited contact for a blissful few months now. It has allowed me to change the dynamic of my faking it and pretending to be OK with her. Now I just want peace and quiet and I want to be away from her, but this weekend she is again pushing for “getting over all this” and wants to return to our prior dynamic where she consistently got her way and I was consistently ill behind the scenes. I don’t really want to open up any discussion of past issues because it gets me nowhere. She’s not capable of admitting she was wrong because she doesn’t ever think she is. When she contacts me, I am emotionally exhausted, and I feel criticized and bullied and I lose days and days to “sleeping it off” or overanalyzing every nuance of the conversation, or I melt down completely trying to resolve my feelings to a point where I can continue to function. Does anyone have any books or resources they would recommend that truly tells one how to emotionally detach? If I go completely no contact, then she uses that as evidence of my victimizing her, and that makes things more difficult. If I can just try to keep things low contact, but limit my reaction to her, I could possibly manage this.I’m desperate for help…real actual, help and not just theory or niceties like my therapist suggesting “you really should go no contact” or “you really should limit contact” or “you must emotionally detach.” Yeah. I know!!! I don’t know HOW to do it. Any advice would be welcome. The problem with people like your mom is that they will NEVER accept limited contact. It's all or nothing with them. Block her in every way you can (FB, phone, etc) and get on with your life. As long as she has even a thread of connection to you, she will abuse that connection. This. It will be 4 years no contact for me this month. I have no hope that we will ever reconcile. |
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Post by crazy4scraps on Oct 31, 2023 2:39:29 GMT
I don't have any problem cutting contact with anyone. I've had to do it several times for very good reasons and it has been no problem. I just cut it and don't look back. The main reason is that if I am cutting someone off it is because I basically loathe them so I don't give a shit what they or anyone else thinks. I think one of the reasons it is easy for me is because my husband, daughter and people around me fulfill any personal contact that I need. Also, I do not do drama. The easiest way is to just do it, block and don't engage at all. Then surround yourself with people that you enjoy. If you can't do that then you will keep suffering. I know it is your mother but she obviously doesn't give a rat's ass about your feelings or what you think, want or need. Your mother is the one who should want to take care of you, her child, not the other way around. Don't waste your time worrying about her. Send her a text and say “I Am Done”, then block her and screen your calls. Refuse to speak about it with her or anyone else ever again. It's hard but soooo worth it. I wish you peace. Same here. I don’t have time to have people in my life whose goal is to make me and everyone else around them miserable. One of my siblings that I cut off after our mom died recently sent me a Facebook friend request and I just completely ignored it. I’ve really been enjoying not having all that extra drama in my life so I have no desire to open up that Pandora’s box again. If I open up the door even a crack they will bust it right down. Nope, NOT going there. |
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Post by ScrapbookMyLife on Oct 31, 2023 2:41:40 GMT
It was a long time coming.
I had enough and I just needed to be done. When the moment came, I felt it, I knew it....and I was just done.
Hung up the phone and declared "I am done". In that moment it felt like a toxic cloud lifted off of me.
I know, without a doubt, that I >> I tried, I gave and gave and gave of myself (my time, my efforts), I did and did and did and did some more. I witnessed more than my share of toxic manipulative behavior and fake crying(to get her way). It was emotionally and mentally exhausting.
Givers are going to give and takers are going to take.
Spent my childhood, teen years and adult decades, thinking I was never good enough, not worthy of her love because she got pregnant with me at 17 (and somehow she thinks that is my fault, because she got stuck with me).
Her resentfulness and bitterness, and cold stone heart and lack of any warmth, love and compassion for me.....was very evident my whole life.
I spent about 56-ish years trying to get her to like me, love me, want me.......she is not capable of that, her bitterness won't let her.
I just couldn't do it anymore.
Better late, than never:
I now know and understand >> it's her, not me.
(Although I am responsible for my own choices and decisions)......I figured out that never being enough, always feeling unwanted and unloved, drove me away from home at the age of 18.5. Unfortunately, I went from bad(very dysfunctional childhood and home life) to worse (met, dated and then married a sociopath....that's it's own horrific story).
Better later, than never >> I finally left all the toxic behavior behind. It took a lot of work, soul searching, healing, growing, etc.... but I finally found me and I love who I am and the life I've made for myself.
My advice is don't hesitate to cut ties.....let that toxic cloud that surrounds you..... go from your life. Let it go and don't look back.
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scrappyesq
Pearl Clutcher
You have always been a part of the heist. You're only mad now because you don't like your cut.
Posts: 4,032
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Post by scrappyesq on Oct 31, 2023 3:09:23 GMT
The only way I have been able to emotionally detach has been no contact. My mother is vicious and cruel, but that didn’t stop me from craving her approval. It has been 8 years and I can finally say that I feel nothing when it comes to her.
I’ve talked to her less than a handful of times since I “abandoned the family” (her narrative) and each time I walked away feeling even less damaged. When my stepfather passed away recently I left her a phone message akin to thoughts and prayers. I couldn’t even muster up fake sympathy. Sounds crazy but it felt great. That took years to achieve, and I wouldn’t trade my peace for anything.
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