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Post by uksue on Feb 2, 2024 22:47:10 GMT
What do others think about this? During most of the trial I didn't think the prosecution could possibly get a conviction, but when Jennifer was on the stand and the prosecution listed all the things she was doing instead of taking care of her child's problems I was tipped over to guilty. What a strange lady she appeared.
At the same time I had some sympathy with the defence's statement about the precedent a guilty verdict could set. I was watching 'lawyer you know though' and he mentioned that the defence were in fact attempting jury nullification- ie they think she's guilty but give her a pass because 'that could be me sitting there- which is exactly what the defence attorney says.
The defence attorney has been...interesting.
I would imagine it's going to be a very long weekend for the parents of the children that were murdered.
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Post by h2ohdog on Feb 2, 2024 23:23:22 GMT
Iâve been glued since last week (retired). JC is a horrible mother and her attorney is annoying and I have said âguiltyâ to myself. However, after watching defense diaries (YT), who went through the law that the jury has to decide on, I think that it will be either not guilty or the jury will be hung.
It, and the fatherâs trial, which will be in March, are so precedent-setting that I am surprised more people donât know about it. IMO of course.
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Post by dewryce on Feb 2, 2024 23:29:09 GMT
I am not familiar at all with this trial, barely with this case so I went and read an article on abcnews. How old was Ethan? My gut reaction is that in an ideal world they should be charged since they knew he had a gun and it wasnât locked up and unavailable to him without their help. Period, regardless of his mental health issues. Add to the fact that they met with the school who indicated he needed immediate mental health treatment, and by law all weapons in the house should require to be stored a certain way as well due to that fact.
But thatâs not the law right now.
Do I think they were shitty parents for being told he needed immediate mental health attention and they said heâd have to walk home and be there alone? Sure. But I donât know that any laws were broken.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 2, 2024 23:36:26 GMT
I have seen a little bit of the trial and commentary on news shows but not a lot. I think that they should have told the school about the gun when they were there due to the drawings. But it seems that there are a lot of other things that are brought up that are bad parenting, but Iâm not sure that is a crime. Iâm not familiar with the exact law so canât comment on that.
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Post by dewryce on Feb 2, 2024 23:41:46 GMT
I have seen a little bit of the trial and commentary on news shows but not a lot. I think that they should have told the school about the gun when they were there due to the drawings. But it seems that there are a lot of other things that are brought up that are bad parenting, but Iâm not sure that is a crime. Iâm not familiar with the exact law so canât comment on that. My thoughts exactly. |
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Post by h2ohdog on Feb 2, 2024 23:47:01 GMT
It is a hot-button issue for all. The live chats are wild. Bad parenting is not a crime, but neglect and contributing to the delinquency of a minor is and there is a low bar in Michigan for charging parents with this. The fact that the parents are charged with involuntary manslaughter is a step above what Michigan would usually consider, and that is why the verdicts will be so important and set a precedent. I realize I am not explaining it well. Really, if interested, Lawyer you Know, which uksue mentioned, or defense diaries are great for explaining what is happening. I also found that the OxfordShooting2 subreddit has a lot of knowledgeable people on it, who explain why this can happen. HTH at all. It is super interesting. Edit: took s out of the subreddit name. |
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Post by littlemama on Feb 3, 2024 0:01:58 GMT
They have to be very careful about setting a precedent here.
I think the parents are 100% guilty of neglect and that they should have been charged for that.
I think it is a slippery slope to convict them of manslaughter. Where do you draw the line? Parents dont always know what teenagers are up to. In this case, it is just very well known what they were doing instead of parenting their child and it is well documented that he was screaming for help.
In addition, they left their child to a public defender while they hired lawyers for themselves. They are verifiably horrible people, but I dont think this precedent should be set.
And now that child is in prison where he still will not get the help he needs.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 3, 2024 0:02:45 GMT
Virginia had no problem jailing the mom of the 6yr old who shot his teacher, who lived.. oh right, could it be because they were black?
I posted below that truthfully I don't remember the details.....
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Post by littlemama on Feb 3, 2024 0:03:53 GMT
I am not familiar at all with this trial, barely with this case so I went and read an article on abcnews. How old was Ethan? My gut reaction is that in an ideal world they should be charged since they knew he had a gun and it wasnât locked up and unavailable to him without their help. Period, regardless of his mental health issues. Add to the fact that they met with the school who indicated he needed immediate mental health treatment, and by law all weapons in the house should require to be stored a certain way as well due to that fact. But thatâs not the law right now. Do I think they were shitty parents for being told he needed immediate mental health attention and they said heâd have to walk home and be there alone? Sure. But I donât know that any laws were broken. He was 15 at the time. |
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Post by littlemama on Feb 3, 2024 0:06:15 GMT
Virginia had no problem jailing the mom of the 6yr old who shot his teacher, who lived.. oh right, could it be because they were black? What was she charged with? If it was leaving a gun where the child can get to it, I dont have an issue with any parent/person being jailed for being irresponsible with guns. I think the assholes in this case should have been charged with neglect and not keeping the gun secured. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 3, 2024 0:21:29 GMT
Truthfully I do not remember the details ,..
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Post by Bridget in MD on Feb 3, 2024 0:21:57 GMT
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Post by lisae on Feb 3, 2024 0:35:22 GMT
From what I've seen on the news I'd vote 'guilty' in a heartbeat. I think it is time we held parents responsible for arming their minor children with handguns or making their own guns easily accessible. And I just can't see in this case how they didn't know their son had homicidal tendencies.
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Post by littlemama on Feb 3, 2024 2:54:42 GMT
From what I've seen on the news I'd vote 'guilty' in a heartbeat. I think it is time we held parents responsible for arming their minor children with handguns or making their own guns easily accessible. And I just can't see in this case how they didn't know their son had homicidal tendencies. I can see where they might not have known he had homicidal tendencies as people dont tend to shout that from the rooftops. They absolutely knew about his mental illness and accompanying hallucinations, though and were neglectful in not getting him the help he was begging them for. I think they are guilty of neglect and not keeping the gun where he couldnt get to it. I do not think that rises to the level of manslaughter, however. As I stated above, this is a slippery slope and a bad precedent to set. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 3, 2024 3:44:24 GMT
From what I've seen on the news I'd vote 'guilty' in a heartbeat. I think it is time we held parents responsible for arming their minor children with handguns or making their own guns easily accessible. And I just can't see in this case how they didn't know their son had homicidal tendencies. I can see where they might not have known he had homicidal tendencies as people dont tend to shout that from the rooftops. They absolutely knew about his mental illness and accompanying hallucinations, though and were neglectful in not getting him the help he was begging them for. I think they are guilty of neglect and not keeping the gun where he couldnt get to it. I do not think that rises to the level of manslaughter, however. As I stated above, this is a slippery slope and a bad precedent to set. I could be wrong but didnât they go to the school that day to talk to the school about the concerning drawings, which is when the school told them to take him home with them and get him help, but they didnât take him. Shortly afterwards was when he did the shooting? So at the point when they were at the school and knew about the drawings they should have taken him home but also made sure he didnât have the gun. From what I have heard, it seems that the mother was really in denial about his mental health issues. I can understand that no parent wants to think of their child as potentially being a harm to others but they handled this very poorly. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 3, 2024 3:50:11 GMT
Not only should they have taken him home, the school should have to them take him home. Had the parents told the school he had access to A gun, his backpack should have been searched, they had the power to do that. Or they could have called LE!
A lot of dropped balls in this case by everyone!!
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Post by lisae on Feb 3, 2024 13:18:13 GMT
From what I've seen on the news I'd vote 'guilty' in a heartbeat. I think it is time we held parents responsible for arming their minor children with handguns or making their own guns easily accessible. And I just can't see in this case how they didn't know their son had homicidal tendencies. I can see where they might not have known he had homicidal tendencies as people dont tend to shout that from the rooftops. They absolutely knew about his mental illness and accompanying hallucinations, though and were neglectful in not getting him the help he was begging them for. I think they are guilty of neglect and not keeping the gun where he couldnt get to it. I do not think that rises to the level of manslaughter, however. As I stated above, this is a slippery slope and a bad precedent to set. They gave him the gun as a gift. I'm not against adult gun ownership and I'm not against teaching a responsible teenager how to use a hunting rifle or shotgun for supervised activities. But what 15 year old needs a handgun? On the day of the shooting, the school showed her the drawings and she refused to get her son help. To me this case is very clear. Her actions directly contributed to the deaths. She's an accessory. I think it is a terrible precedent to let such egregious behavior by a parent slide. |
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Post by uksue on Feb 3, 2024 14:54:19 GMT
Thanks for all the perspectives.
I've been thinking s lot overnight and I think neglect might have been a better charge but I can also see why the prosecutors want to try to set a precedent.
I'm reminded of the Casey Anthony trial however- I believe she would have been successfully prosecuted had the prosecutors given the jury other options to consider.
I honestly showed more care and affection to our bearded dragon ( who I was terrified of- but my son left him behind when his son was born đ).
Mum was so busy with her affair and horses and who knows what dad was doing- I'm guessing his case will be dropped if this trial is unsuccessful. The text where she told her son to not get caught when he was googling ammo really made me angry.
Thank goodness they only had one child, 'oopsie' as he was đ
I think the prosecutor could have gone far harder on mom. The defence did very much present to the jury that they could end up being charged for their own children's crimes if this precedent is set.
I'm pretty much expecting a not guilty or hung jury as well.
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Post by airforcemomof1 on Feb 3, 2024 15:58:59 GMT
I havenât watched or read everything about this trial but I would not want to be on the jury ( if it is a jury trial).
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Post by sideways on Feb 3, 2024 17:02:04 GMT
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Post by shescrafty on Feb 3, 2024 17:07:37 GMT
I can see where they might not have known he had homicidal tendencies as people dont tend to shout that from the rooftops. They absolutely knew about his mental illness and accompanying hallucinations, though and were neglectful in not getting him the help he was begging them for. I think they are guilty of neglect and not keeping the gun where he couldnt get to it. I do not think that rises to the level of manslaughter, however. As I stated above, this is a slippery slope and a bad precedent to set. They gave him the gun as a gift. I'm not against adult gun ownership and I'm not against teaching a responsible teenager how to use a hunting rifle or shotgun for supervised activities. But what 15 year old needs a handgun?  On the day of the shooting, the school showed her the drawings and she refused to get her son help. To me this case is very clear. Her actions directly contributed to the deaths. She's an accessory. I think it is a terrible precedent to let such egregious behavior by a parent slide. This 100% Their actions and inactions directly led to the death of others. Over and over this is happening-it is not okay to let these irresponsible people off the hook when they could have absolutely stopped this from happening. |
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Post by auntkelly on Feb 3, 2024 17:24:36 GMT
I havenât been following the case too closely, but I did see clips of a prosecution witness reading excerpts of the shooterâs diary. It was heartbreaking to hear that the kid knew he had a problem and desperately wanted help.
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Post by librarylady on Feb 4, 2024 18:13:30 GMT
From what I've seen on the news I'd vote 'guilty' in a heartbeat. I think it is time we held parents responsible for arming their minor children with handguns or making their own guns easily accessible. And I just can't see in this case how they didn't know their son had homicidal tendencies.  |
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Post by sunnyd on Feb 4, 2024 22:03:16 GMT
GUILTY, in my opinion. It sucks that her entire parenting role is on trial but she should be found guilty due to providing the gun, giving access to guns and ignoring her son's mental health needs. When he told his parents he needed help, his mom laughed at him and his dad told him to suck it up.
Her dirty house, affair, horse hobby, not hugging her son when she showed up at the school counselor's office, etc. is taking up too much attention in the trial. I know it's to show the type of a parent she is but I wish they would focus on the more relevant facts.
My mom would have told me to suck it up 40 years ago but times are different now. Being a 15 year old is harder now than it was then and raising a 15 year old is harder now too. Kids need access to mental health care. Parents need to respond to signs of mental health issues from their children and try to get them help. They didn't even try.
Her behavior as a parent was reckless and caused other people harm, in my opinion.
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Post by alsomsknit on Feb 6, 2024 17:47:22 GMT
The prosecution hasnât tried the case to beyond a reasonable doubt.
The mom appears to be a bad parent and terrible person. Thatâs not a crime. Her and her lawyerâs oddities is not a crime.
She is ethically responsible, not criminally. The parents of the victims need to go after the parents in civil court.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 6, 2024 18:40:45 GMT
Verdict reached after 10 hours..
Waiting for Judge and Jury to come in....
Guilty of involuntary manslaughter of all four victims...
Jury polled!
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,521 
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Post by jayfab on Feb 6, 2024 18:43:33 GMT
Wow, I did not expect that verdict.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 6, 2024 18:52:10 GMT
Sentencing April 9th...
***
I missed these before. Jennifer did not ask DS if he wanted help, even that day. She could have taken DS to her job for the rest of the day, he employer had told her she could as needed.
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Post by lurker on Feb 6, 2024 18:57:48 GMT
Do you think the verdict would have been different had she not testified in her own defense?
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Post by mcjunkin on Feb 6, 2024 19:20:31 GMT
I am fairly conservative, probably more so than many on here, especially on gun control issues. We shoot, hunting and target practice. My (now adult) kids collect guns, older ones especially, were given hunting rifles of their own growing up, and were taught how to use handguns.
I 100% agree with the verdict. She is just as responsible as her kid for what happened, maybe even more-so, as she is an ADULT. ETA: That kid should have NEVER had access to a gun, never mind been given one.
We recognized as parents that we answered for anything that happened with any of the guns in our home, regardless of who they belonged to, and we were responsible for monitoring the mental state of our kids and their access to any of the guns.
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