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Post by overwhelmed123 on Jan 16, 2015 19:33:01 GMT
This is very much TMI. I'm so sorry.
I have been a pea for 10+ years. I am so beyond humiliated and embarrassed. But I am desperate to get a different point of view. I apologize in advance for the long post and desperation.
I'll start by saying that I've never really felt one way or the other about porn. I know it's out there, I know men look at it. I was never one to be outraged or offended by it. As I've gotten older, my views have changed. I definitely see it as something that can and does exploit and objectify women. But again, it's not something that's ever made get up in arms about.
I've known "John" for over 20 years. We've been close friends throughout that time. About 18 months ago we started a relationship. I knew that John watched porn from time to time and it never really bothered me. When our relationship began, the physical side was slow to start. Meaning it took MONTHS to get to second base. I kind of felt that part of that was because we were transitioning from being BFFs to partners. I thought slowly easing into it seemed normal.
Finally we got to the night where it was clear that we were going for home base. When the time came, John was unable to get or maintain an erection. We were both embarrassed and he told me this was the reason he had been so hesitant to make things physical. He told me that after some health problems he'd been through, his sex drive had significantly diminished and he was experiencing some ED. We talked very openly about it, and said we'd keep trying and he promised me he'd go to the doctor if things didn't get better.
Well, things didn't get better. He went to the doctor and discussed it with him. He had labs run, his testosterone was not low, and they could find no real reason for the ED. He ended up with a prescription for Cialis. I was nervous about this. We'd tried and failed several times by this point and to be honest, I had developed a serious anxiety concerning sex at all. I was so worried that I was the reason things weren't happening. I tried everything I could to fix the situation. I offered to do anything he wanted in bed, I was open and I was honest about my feelings. He repeatedly assured me that I was not the problem. He told me he loved me and that he was sorry this was happening. I believed him because he had given me no reason not to.
Two nights ago we went away for a quick overnight trip. While away things heated up and again ended in ED. As I was getting up, he said very casually to me that he didn't understand why it wasn't getting better. He told me that he hadn't masturbated in weeks or looked at porn for almost a month. I was so taken aback by this. I was shocked because he had lead me to believe that he was pretty asexual at this point. He had lead me to believe he wasn't having sexual thoughts or feelings. And when I heard this... it felt like someone had kicked me. I want to state right now that I obviously think there is nothing wrong with masturbation. I don't have a problem with that. But the way he said he hadn't watched porn in a month gave me a very bad feeling.
I was extremely upset. I asked what he meant about not watching porn in a month and he said he was trying not to watch it because he thought maybe that was causing our problem. I felt so blindsided. I couldn't wrap my head around him masturbating and watching porn when I am right here in front of him, willing to do whatever he wanted to get things going and yet he had been able to get things working with porn.
I let things calm down that night and last night I decided to confront this problem head on. I felt like he owed me some type of reasonable explanation or I could not continue in a relationship with him. I feel strongly that I should be with a man who wants to have sex with me. I deserve that loving connection you get with someone and here I've spent 18 months waiting for something that wasn't going to happen.
He admitted to having a porn addiction. He apparently feels that watching so much porn has made him less responsive to a real person.
Here I sit feeling so betrayed. How could he pick a video and self satisfaction over a woman he loves and says he wants to be with? I feel so deceived. I feel so awful about myself. I'm obviously not the person for him if I can't get him to respond in a sexual way. That tells me he doesn't like me in that way. It tells me I don't look right, act right, perform right in bed. He doesn't like me. He wants some anonymous, unobtainable women he sees on the internet instead of me.
He insists he loves me and wants to marry me. I will say that he is a kind, generous and caring person. I love him very much. But I feel like I have been horribly deceived and lied to for all this time. He's wasted 18 months of my life where I could have been single and maybe could have found someone else who wants to have a loving relationship that includes sex.
In case anyone is wondering how I missed this addiction, I work second shift and he works third shift. We are never off on the weekends together and only have one coordinating day off together per week. And while we live together, we only spend a small amount of time together every day except for the day off. So this has been easy to hide from me.
Last night I told him I was going to need some time to think this through. He told me to take as much time as I needed and that he would do anything to win back my trust.
If you have stuck with me this this far, thank you. My need for advice comes in here:
1. Do I have the right to ask him what type of porn he watches and how much? I feel like this is going to haunt me. I almost feel like he's been cheating on me, I know that sounds ridiculous. But I feel like that woman who has been scorned and needs to see the shiny new girlfriend that's replaced her.
2. Is this addiction something that I should treat as other addictions? I mean if he said he was addicted to heroin I'd immediately seek help for him. I'd probably not be as mad TBH. Because when I think about drug addiction I know that's a disease. Somehow I feel like this is very different.
3. Is my feeling betrayed, humiliated, lied to and bad about myself normal? He didn't cheat on me, but he has certainly kept a significant secret from me.
4. Should I ask for open access to his electronic devices? I'm 100% sure that if I asked to see his phone or ipad right now he'd hand them right over. But is it an invasion of his privacy if I ask that? I don't want to be THAT person, but I'm not sure what other choice I have.
Is there anything else I need to do here that I'm not seeing? Last night I told him that as of right now there would be no more porn, if I caught him with porn that would be it. If he felt the need to watch porn he needed to come and tell me and if he actually watched the porn he better be ready to not only confess it but to show me exactly what he was watching. Because I feel like I need to know WTF he's watching and WTF I've gotten myself into here.
If you have read this far, I can't thank you enough. Just typing it out has made me feel less anxious. I need to get myself into therapy ASAP and probably couples therapy if I decide to stay with him. I feel so sad and horribly angry. This is the person I wanted to marry and have a child with. How could I have been so blind and stupid? I feel so ashamed and humiliated. I feel so self-conscious about my looks, and my body and that I want to crawl into a hole and die from the shame. I feel like my whole world was turned upside down. Is this normal?
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Post by Zee on Jan 16, 2015 19:39:45 GMT
I think he is not the right man for you, and demanding that he give up porn, get counseling, give you access to his electronic devices, etc isn't going to change anything for the better. In all honesty, if I were you I'd be glad I knew all this now. End the relationship...there are lots of men out there that are willing and able to have sex with real, live you. Trust me on that one!
It's not a reflection on you and absolutely nothing to feel bad about on your end.
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Post by greenlegume on Jan 16, 2015 19:46:23 GMT
I think what you're feeling is normal. But, hear this: IT'S NOT YOU, IT's HIM.
This guy has problems, and honestly, I think the porn "addiction" is only one small facet of his problems.
You're better off without him. Easier said than done, I know, but I think you should quit wasting your time and kick him to the curb.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jan 16, 2015 19:48:26 GMT
I agree with the posts above me. I would feel the same way if I were in your shoes. It would definitely be a hit to my self-esteem. I would break it off, though.
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Post by nurseypants on Jan 16, 2015 19:49:25 GMT
I'm so sorry this is happening in your life. This is what I hate - his problem, his addiction, his inability to get it up, is making you feel shame. It seems to me that increased exposure to graphic pornography really desensitizes men to regular sex with a regular woman. It's a lot easier to jack off to a picture on a screen than it is to seek out, maintain and work at a relationship. I don't think making demands is going to work. Frankly, I'd get the hell out of this. Sex is a major part of romantic love and this guy can't give you that. Get some short-term therapy to deal with your feelings of inadequacy and move on.
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Post by boxermom73 on Jan 16, 2015 19:51:22 GMT
Definitely go get counseling!! It's an addiction and he won't be able to just stop no matter how much he loves you... Maybe with help he can get better but it's no reflection on you he obviously has had this problem for many years,..
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scrappert
Prolific Pea
RefuPea #2956
Posts: 7,784
Location: Milwaukee, WI area
Jul 11, 2014 21:20:09 GMT
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Post by scrappert on Jan 16, 2015 19:58:00 GMT
I agree with the previous posters. My DXH was addicted to porn. I know exactly how you are feeling. When I found out, I was 7 months pregnant. Already not feeling that good about myself, being fat with pregnancy, and I find this out? It was very hurtful, I felt he was having an affair. He said he would stop, he would for a little while and then he would start again. It was a cycle over and over again. As I read your story, it brought back so many memories that I had not thought about in a long time. Everything you said was how I was feeling. Looking back now, I know it was on him and had nothing to do with me. It's an addiction, so the pull to do that is so much stronger than just being with you/me. 1. Yes, you have the right to ask him. 2. I don't have an answer for this one. 3. Yes, very normal! In a way, he is cheating on you. 4. This one is a hard one. This is something you have to decide, if you stay with him and want to work this out. If he is committed to stop watching porn, than yes, you should have access to see if he is. All the electronic devices can be child proofed, that way he can not get to those sites. Something to think about. And you would have the password to undo that.
Good luck to you in what ever you decide. My heart goes out to you, and I just want to say again, you have no reason to feel bad about yourself in this situation. Hard to do, I know, but TRUE!
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Post by myshelly on Jan 16, 2015 20:09:23 GMT
It sounds from your OP like you are not married to or engaged to this man.
That's good. You can make an informed decision about whether you want to become any more committed.
My decision on the relationship would depend on his reaction to your questions and requests. Of course you have the right to ask him about it. If he wouldn't talk to me I would be done. I would want him in counseling. I would want access to his devices.
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Post by SunnySmile on Jan 16, 2015 20:12:11 GMT
If you were married, and especially if you had children together, I might say try to work it out with counseling, etc. Since you are not, I say RUN. The above posters are right, it is him, not you. This will not go away overnight, and you've given it 18 months. There are plenty of other great guys out there, go for it!
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paigepea
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Jun 26, 2014 4:28:55 GMT
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Post by paigepea on Jan 16, 2015 20:22:07 GMT
I think there is no way he's going to give up the porn, so unless you're willing to accept the porn and adjust your expectations (like maybe trying to have sex while the porn is on) then I think you're probably not meant to be together. In my limited worldly experience, i can say that men try to change but i think change is very difficult for them. Sorry. Many hugs - this sounds like a difficult situation but you really don't sound happy.
Paige
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loco coco
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 16:15:45 GMT
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Post by loco coco on Jan 16, 2015 20:23:27 GMT
Im sorry you feel embarrassed and humiliated, I dont think you should but I know what you mean, he is probably feeling the same way.
I read an article about how porn is so crazy now that it can desensitize men to the real thing. I dont mind my DH watching porn occasionally, I think there are few males who dont watch porn. If this was something recent I would say give him time but 18 months is a long time to work something like this out, big red flag for me.
1. yes you have the right to ask him, communication is everything. 4. in a committed relationship i think you should have open access to everything
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Post by hollymolly on Jan 16, 2015 20:27:43 GMT
It's time to move on. I know, easier said than done, but be grateful that this came out before you were married.
I'm not 100% anti-porn, but in this case it is like he's cheating on you, because he's keeping to himself (and his screen) a part of him that he should reserve just for you. I'm not saying self gratification is not ok, it's just not ok if it's at the expense of intimate time with your partner.
I totally understand the damage this can cause to your self esteem, even though it is completely undeserved. Honestly, I don't think that's something you can get past if you stay with him. I know that I could never feel comfortable and relaxed enough to enjoy myself with a partner if I had that nagging doubt in my head that he didn't find me attractive, no matter how many times he tried to prove to me that he did. I speak from experience on this.
Counseling will help you regardless of what you decide. Please don't wait to talk to someone. It's one thing to know intellectually that he is the one with the problem and you are just as attractive to the opposite sex as you've always been, but after a blow like this, it will take work to believe it in your heart again. (It's true, by the way, you are attractive and worthy of great s.x)
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Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Jan 16, 2015 20:28:41 GMT
Leave. Be done. It's over.
I've known several guys from age 20 to 55 who couldn't get it up with a real woman because they had watched porn too much or for too long. Most guys watch it. They are not children and should not be told they can't watch it. However, it's virtually impossible to fix these guys. He probably has no problem getting an erection and finishing himself off while watching porn but he won't ever be able to do that with you. It's also not you. If you put the porn star women in front of him, he couldn't perform in real life for them either.
If sex is important to you, then you need to run away and never look back. You should only stay with him if you can live without it. No amount of counseling will ever help. Having sex while watching porn won't help either. He needs to be alone in order to perform. Trust me on this.
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msliz
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Jun 26, 2014 21:32:34 GMT
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Post by msliz on Jan 16, 2015 20:47:40 GMT
Bottom line, are you willing to live as "just friends" with this guy for the rest of your life, while he's happy with his porn and you have no one?
That's not a marriage. It's just really really sad. Move on.
I'm sorry you wasted your time with this one. It doesn't matter that he's a nice person. He can never be a husband to you.
ETA: How ironic! With this post, I'm Throbbing Again!
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Post by tlsmi on Jan 16, 2015 20:53:43 GMT
I'd run like hell if I were you. I know you care about him but this isn't something you can fix and no amount of transparency or threats or snooping or key loggers will work. That's just going to make you crazy.
Then your self-esteem is in the toilet and you're crazy on top of that.
Sporadic porn use is different than what your describing. As stated above, the majority of people in 12 step groups for this, pretty much are like AA, they stay in recovery for life.
ETA: not about you. At all. Not about your looks, your weight, nothing. Halle Berry was married to a sex addict. Halle Berry.
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Post by epeanymous on Jan 16, 2015 21:02:49 GMT
I'm not anti-porn, but my feeling is that since porn here is probably interfering with your sex life, porn is a problem for him, and I do not think it is worth it at this stage in your relationship (particularly with how it is making you feel) to take on the burden of trying (possibly unsuccessfully) to see him through his addiction.
Be glad he has come clean with you and that you have the information you need to make a decision.
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Post by jjpswife on Jan 16, 2015 21:03:28 GMT
I just wanted to say that I'm sorry. I would feel exactly the way that you do. Totally deceived and ashamed.
Some good advice here...be kind to yourself while you navigate this.
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Post by gonewalkabout on Jan 16, 2015 21:04:34 GMT
It's not you, and your feelings about this are normal. Yes, it is generally treated as any other addiction, however, his problems need to be treated by a therapist. Porn addiction has the consequences you are currently experiencing. What is going on right now is typical in this type of situation. It won't change until he gets therapy, and even then, it will take some time. People with this addiction, just like any other, shouldn't go near it again, because just like an addiction to heroin, or alcohol, it will come back to haunt them. Don't remain in this situation. As heartbreaking as it will be for you, don't do it.
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Post by alibama on Jan 16, 2015 21:09:59 GMT
I say he is not the right person for you. THIS IS NOT YOU IT IS HIM!!!!
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Jan 16, 2015 21:11:04 GMT
It's not you. It's him. If he promised never to look at porn again, would you believe him and trust him? Do you want to spend the rest of your life checking his computer? If you were married, had children...maybe you could work it out with therapy? I don't know. Maybe. I think you deserve better.
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Post by elaine on Jan 16, 2015 21:16:47 GMT
First off, (((hugs)))). I'm sorry. This is about him, not about your desirability or attractiveness.
He is not someone I would plan on marrying and having a child with at this point, if I were you.
If you have known him for 20 years, I'm going to guess you are in your 30s. You very likely aren't as fertile as you were 10 years ago. Getting pregnant at your age may involve having a lot of sex, and with the clock ticking, some of the performance pressure can impact sex.
Be aware that with an addiction, he has years of work ahead of him, if he truly wants to fight it, and it will push the timing of marriage and starting a family back probably a few more years. You mention wasting 18 months, so I am guessing that the biological clock is an issue with you. There certainly is nothing wrong with that - I've been there - if bearing your own kids is important to you, you need to be realistic in the relationship choices you make.
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Post by threegirls on Jan 16, 2015 21:24:24 GMT
I have a friend who ended her 25 year marriage because her then husband was addicted to porn. It had never been a problem until he had 24/7 access to it on the Internet. He was perfect in every other way but she couldn't live with his addiction and he couldn't give it up.
Your feelings of betrayal and humiliation are normal and you shouldn't feel embarrassed about anything. He is the one with the problem. Keep your chin up and put your running shoes on. There is someone better for you!
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momto4kiddos
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Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
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Post by momto4kiddos on Jan 16, 2015 21:29:59 GMT
Agree with so much of what has been said. This isn't about you at all, it's about him. I know that it's a huge blow to you, but I can guarantee you this problem predates you. I know it's difficult to just be done, but honestly this is the part that would do it for me....you've been dating 18 months and after 17 months he decided to give up porn to see if that helped? He should have considered that the first time he suffered ED!
You have a right to a lot of things, asking him, monitoring his computer, etc., BUT DON'T! This will just torture you. Doesn't matter who he's looking at, it has nothing to do with you - he likes them because they aren't real. He will hide it, he'll tell you he's quit and you'll eventually come across it again and he'll lie to your face about how it got there.
I'm sorry this is happening to you and I know it is tough to break the ties, but please do some research and consider it.
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama
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Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
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Post by scrapaddie on Jan 16, 2015 21:36:14 GMT
I know it's difficult, but I say run. The person you are in love with is not the person he actually is.
You deserve someone who can offer himself to you, whole heartedly. I think you have displayed an amazing amount of patience.....
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Post by slicksister on Jan 16, 2015 21:46:12 GMT
Walk away. Don't look back.
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Post by tracyarts on Jan 16, 2015 21:55:35 GMT
I had a nice long response typed but lost it. I'll try again.
First of all, porn/masturbation fueled sexual dysfunction is a problem for men of all ages. There is very strong evidence that frequent porn watching accompanied by masturbation actually rewires the brain in terms of sexual response. The longer you engage in the behavior without having regular sex with a real partner, the less your brain and body recognize real sex as being "sex". Porn is not real sex. Masturbation is not real sex. Porn is an artificial series of visual and auditory stimuli engineered to elicit a fast and powerful arousal response. Also when men masturbate frequently without having sex with a real partner to compare it to, they tend to grip their penis much too hard and that seriously messes with their ability to feel pleasure and stimulus. The slang term for this is "death grip". The longer he's been at it, the more his brain and body have been affected. A pill and a month of hands-off won't fix the problem. He needs intensive therapy with somebody who specializes with this kind of sexual dysfunction.
1.) You can ask him about his porn choices but I don't think that would help. As long as it's legal, everybody consents, and there is no harm being done, it doesn't matter. It's not about what is on the screen, but how his mind and body respond to it. As this brain changing and desensitization process goes on men tend to need more and more intense forms of porn to get a response. You can't try and make it about you or how you stack up to what he's watching. You're a real woman, porn is fake. It's not a shiny new girlfriend. It's just a source of sexual stimuli. A product, a thing, a substance. If he has been at it for a long time he is probably into really hardcore stuff. But that has nothing to do with you or what he wants with a real life partner.
2.) Is it an addiction? Maybe. Maybe it's a habit. But no matter which it is, he can't just will it away. A professional can determine whether or not there is actual addiction at play or not. How he is treated will depend on whether it is an addiction or habit. Addiction brings a whole other layer of issues to the table.
3.) You feel how you feel, and that's okay. If you feel betrayed, then you've been betrayed. He certainly kept something big from you. But ultimately it's not about you as a person and a partner, but the problem he has. And you have to keep reminding yourself that this is not about real partners, real relationships, or you as a human being. Feel what you feel and be okay with it. But don't allow this to undermine your self worth or dwell on it and obsess on it. It's his problem. You did nothing wrong. This is not on you or your attractiveness or your value as a person and partner.
4.) All asking for open access can do is show you what he has or has not been looking at. And then can you really be sure he is not going around it? Access to his devices will not make you trust him or fix the problem. It's not an invasion of privacy if you need it in order to feel safe enough in the relationship to try and work things out and he agrees to it willingly. But don't rely too much on it. However, if he willingly hands it over without hesitation that is a sign that he is committed in working for the relationship. One word of caution, checking devices can become obsessive, and electronics can glitch and people do get porn spam. Don't set yourself up for a fall. I went to a sexual health website recently and it pinged my security program as an adult website. Of course it was, but it wasn't "that" kind of adult website. If something like that happens, it can really set back your progress. So I would say if it helps, ask for it. But do no rely on it as proof of anything other than his willingness to work on things.
As far as anything else? Draw your line in the sand. If porn is the deal breaker, then tell him any future porn use will result in immediate and permanent termination of the relationship and complete no contact from then on out. But you have got to be fully prepared to follow up without hesitating if he does look at porn or else it isn't an ultimatum. If this is an addiction issue or even a very strong habit, then he will probably slip up. People do. How much you are willing to accept is your choice. You hold all the cards right now. If the relationship continues, it is on your terms. But only set terms that you are willing to adhere to.
Therapy for you, him, and both as a couple would be a great idea. You need to get help in understanding the problem and how not to let yourself come to believe it's about you. Your self esteem took a huge hit and you need guidance to work through it. He needs a lot of help from a therapist who is experienced in this kind of problem. He is going to have to re-learn how to feel and respond sexually. And as a couple a therapist can guide you to working on the problem as a team and supporting each other.
I am not going to say that you should just bail because you aren't married and don't have kids together. You do have a history and obviously since you posted here instead of just kicking him to the curb you feel there is something worth fighting for. There is no formula or right way to deal with something like this. We are all unique and we all have different needs and expectations. Somebody else's deal breaker might be your road bump. My advice would be to do a lot of research on how porn watching changes the brain and damages sexual response. See exactly what you are up against. From what I know it can be fixed but the longer it was a problem, the more difficult and lengthy the recovery process will be. Nobody can tell you whether it's worth it or not. You have to decide it for yourself. And whatever you decide is the right choice for you and your relationship.
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Deleted
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May 15, 2024 19:54:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 21:58:58 GMT
This sounds like the plot of the movie "Don Jon", with Joseph Gordon Levitt. Internet sex addiction interfering with real life connections in relationships. I'd walk away from this relationship. His issues are self inflicted and you're the one who's affected.
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Deleted
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May 15, 2024 19:54:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 22:00:34 GMT
Oh, OP, I'm sorry. What a difficult thing to go through. The 4 questions you posed - about how to help him, and if you have a right to your feelings - they indicate, to me, that you could use some help with codependency. Yes, he has an addiction, and that does tend to bring out codependency in loved ones. If you live in a larger town, there will be in person meetings that can help you. You can go to coda.org and see if it resonates. This is how they describe CoDA: "Welcome to Co-Dependents Anonymous, a fellowship of men and women whose common purpose is to develop healthy relationships. The only requirement for membership is a desire for healthy and loving relationships." They can help you (I'm a long time member). Perspective: you are in a relationship with someone who isn't dealing with a significant, life altering problem, one that means you don't get your needs met in a very important area. You are blaming yourself and wondering how you can fix it. It's not your fault, and you can't. Take a deep breath and step back. Put on your own oxygen mask before you worry about how to help him. He is *his* problem. Someone should start taking care of you. Hugs.
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Post by utmr on Jan 16, 2015 22:12:27 GMT
You have been together in some sense for 18 months, you live together, yet have never had s3x. I would gently suggest that you are roommates, not partners.
Assuming that you want a (ahem) "whole" relationship, then I would suggest that you unwind any financial entanglements and end the relationship. To me, it's as if he were gay - it has nothing to do with you, your attractiveness, etc. You just do not have the same needs and end goals.
Cut your losses, move on and look for a man who has the same relationship goals.
I'm sorry you have to go through this, it must be very painful. But this is not something you can fix or solve. Trying to babysit him or change him will only waste your time and make the ending more painful.
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Deleted
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May 15, 2024 19:54:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 22:19:07 GMT
If you decide to stay, and perhaps marry him, please know that you are signing up for YEARS of feeling this way.
You'll never fully trust him. You'll leave the house wondering if he's going to watch porn and satisfy himself, thereby eliminating your chances of intimacy with him later in the day. You'll fight your urges, or perhaps give into them, to obsessively check his phone, his computer, his wallet, etc. You WILL find evidence. And it will break your heart over and over. You'll always be hyper-aware of him eyeing other women. You'll develop a deep and unhealthy view of porn. You'll always feel second best to some pics and his hand. Your self esteem will be shattered with every relapse. If you have children, particularly female children with him, you'll question your choice over and over and realize that you've set a bad example by allowing porn addiction in your life and therefore in their lives. They WILL catch him, he is an addict. You'll feel bitter, angry, ugly, frustrated, helpless, and disappointed in him and yourself. You'll feel less of a person, and living with a porn addict will destroy who you are little by little.
Addicts are excellent liars - it's a package deal. He needs professional help if he has a chance of leading a normal sex life. If you stick with him through that process, I guarantee you, you will feel resentment that you can't shake. Porn addiction is serious as hell and destroys families.
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