StephDRebel
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Posts: 6,665 
Location: Ohio
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Post by StephDRebel on Jul 7, 2015 17:34:30 GMT
Our second anniversary is on 7/20. While we were planning our wedding we had a group of friends IRL and online that had wedding dates that were pretty close, within 45 days or so so we planned together and we naturally kind of check in here and there to see how they're doing.
In the last 3 months it seems like just about everyone we know that was married in the same time frame are now separated and one couple even has a divorce that was finalized already. It seems like that's hardly time enough to honeymoon, settle in, decide you hate each other and make the decision to split. They aren't local friends so I don't know the ins and outs of their relationships or what happened but man, I can't help but wonder about it and what could've made it different.
My first marriage was short, but if we're being honest I married him because my family was telling me he was willing and no one else was ever going to want me because I was 18 with twins. He was military and had good benefits and I figured i didn't have any options at that point so I would suck it up. He married me because he wanted to move out of the barracks although he'll never admit it. I sobbed through my wedding, we slept in different beds on our wedding night and he was cheating within 6 months, we divorced after 3 years (If i could turn back time) but anyone with any sense at all could see that it wasn't really a marriage, let alone a decent relationship and that it was just a matter of time.
In these relationships though it's different. They are older and established, they have life experience, they've always been people that I thought knew who they were and what they wanted. For most of them it's their second marriage and they (from what they put out there) seemed like they were doing the right things and were in love.
So, how does it fall apart in 2 years? I'm not worried that we're about to spontaneously combust or anything but when it seems like it's couple after couple that are terminating their relationships it kind of makes you pause and wonder what the differences are and what we need to do to make sure that we make it for the long haul. For goodness sake, TWO years and 4/5 couples are done, isn't this the honeymoon period? I haven't even managed to change my name yet!
So, what do you think the issue is with so many marriages ending in a short amount of time? (Not just in this scenario but across the board, now i'm curious about how many marriages end before the 5 year mark)
What do you think they keys to making it last are?
What are some things to do to make sure that your marriage stays in balance and you continue to like each other through the years?
Heck, I could use some happiness after a long talk with DH about this, our relationship and marriages in general this morning....anyone care to share a picture of you and your love?
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 7, 2015 17:43:12 GMT
In these cases it cpuld be that they were settled and couldn't adjust to a second person or perhaps there was blended marriage issues.
I seriously think that part of the reason dh and I are still together is that he works nights and bind we both get our independence during the time the other is at work. We don't have to be 24/7 people
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Post by padresfan619 on Jul 7, 2015 17:48:02 GMT
Well, in my experience, lots of people enter into marriage thinking it will change the person they are marrying. When that doesn't happen, they bail.
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Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Jul 7, 2015 17:51:32 GMT
Marriages these days are considered disposable.
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Post by Patter on Jul 7, 2015 17:53:53 GMT
I have been married for 26 years. Marriage is about compromise--not all my way or his way. We are a team and have to work together. Do we always agree? No, and sometimes we have to do things out of love for each other. For instance, I may not like a certain restaurant but I make reservations and we go because it's what he enjoys. He then does the same for me. It's a give and take and understanding that neither of us are perfect. We also put Christ first in our marriage--not me or him or the kids.
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pudgygroundhog
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jul 7, 2015 17:55:00 GMT
From the people I know who've divorced (or are in not so great relationships), it was because they had a fear of being alone and that seemed to drive them getting in relationships they probably shouldn't have been in. I also think in our day and age there is so much choice in general for everything - which leads to more "buyers remorse" or thinking there might be something better around the corner. I think sometimes people expect "wow" relationships and that all you have to do is find your soul mate and it all works out. Relationships take work and I wonder if sometimes people hit the road instead of really giving it all they got before deciding to call it quits. Your point about being older is one in general I've agreed with - as you get older you learn from past relationships or know yourself (or are more honest with yourself) about the kind of relationship that you work well in and what you should look for in a partner. However, I've also come to think that major life changes can be harder adjustments the later you are in your life and you are more settled into your ways. At any rate, I'm sorry so many of your friends have gone through divorces. Those are really short turn around times. Don't let it get you down - there are plenty of good marriages out there.  DH and I have been married for twelve years (our daughter is 7.5). I think for us one thing that has been key is finding the right balance between family and ourselves. We have things we do together and also things we do on our own/with friends. I think also the usual things are important too - communication (letting things fester is not good) and trying to consider things from the other person's point of view. |
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Post by Basket1lady on Jul 7, 2015 17:55:17 GMT
DH and I have been married 25 years as of last week. We just had this discussion last night. We had been dealing with some issues with USAA splitting our account and I was no longer authorized on the main account. Evidently it happened a few years ago, but I never really caught on to what it meant. When questioning the USAA rep, he said it's just their policy now. DH said it's because a 25 year marriage is rare anymore and it's easier for the company when the couple divorces. Ugh. If that's the reason, that's horrible!
For us, divorce was just never an option. We went through some rough patches, but we are pretty boring people. All I ever wanted was a family with 2.2 kids and a dog. I've got that and I'm happy. But I can see how some people would think our life is really boring. Our social life is volunteering with the kids activities. The kids were out last Friday night so for "fun," DH and I took the dog to a restaurant where we could sit outside with her and practiced her down stay.
I worry now that we have all these options as a society, that we know what else is out there, that it's hard to be happy with what we have. (Meaning a collective we.) That people are looking for the fairy tale, but reality is juggling work, soccer practice, and getting some sort of dinner on the table. And I worry that we are losing respect for each other in society. That we are worried about using the wrong word to describe an ethnic group, but we don't concern ourselves with cutting each other off on the road or helping out a neighbor, saying we are too busy. I worry that that crosses over into our personal lives--that people keep score too much and don't just want to help those they love (or once professed to love.)
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Post by colleen on Jul 7, 2015 17:58:37 GMT
I am totally ashamed to admit that I can't for the life of me successfully post a photo on this forum! But, I have been married for 31 years, so I can do something right, lol. I think a lot of people are surprised to find marriage really hard sometimes. I know I was. And, as with any difficult thing, you have to put in some work to figure it out and get it done. I think that can be very scary for some people.
Something that helps me is to try and treat my dh as well as I treat my friends. Don't say nasty, snarky things, don't talk about him in a mean way (except the rare vent when he really ticks me off) to others, be a good listener, etc. And here's the key part -- I expect the same from him.
Also, what is with the nasty fighting some couples indulge in? Calling names, insulting each others looks and intelligence? Really? I don't think I could get over insults like that, even if he apologized. I think it would chip away at my self esteem if the person who was supposed to love me above all others called me fat, ugly, or stupid.
You've got a good head on your shoulders, Steph, and I think the fact that you're thinking about this is evidence that you've got a good shot at making it for the long haul.
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Post by Patter on Jul 7, 2015 18:01:37 GMT
basket1lady, our USAA accounts are still joint. That is strange. I would not be happy if they did that to us. Doesn't seem they can just take a broad brush and do that. Sorry it happened to you. pudgygroundhog, yes, it is important to also have things that you enjoy on your own. Hubby has golf and I encourage him to go each weekend. I don't get upset because he is not with me. He needs that. I need to have my mixed media and paper crafting. It's what gives us time to be better together when we can enjoy your own passions too. colleen, we posted at the same time. I totally agree about not talking badly about him to others. I don't even share things that upset me with my mom because then she would see him differently. I only share my frustrations with the Lord--no one else. I have taught the importance of that to our girls too.
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moodyblue
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Jul 7, 2015 18:04:41 GMT
Interesting timing on this since Friday will be our 16th anniversary. I married for the first time at 42; my husband was 44 and had been married before (no kids) but had been single for quite a few years. I went into this believing that my life had been good before I met him, but was better with him in it. I was concerned about being "set in my ways" and how that might affect things, but I also had a good sense of what was important and what wasn't, and I think that has helped us. Sure, I get annoyed when he sets the dirty dishes on the counter above the dishwasher instead of putting them in it, but in the grand scheme of things, it's s tiny little thing. There is so much more I appreciate about having him in my life.
I think marriages fail for a lot of different reasons: people think the other person will change and then they don't; people change after they get married in ways that don't work for the other person; some people can't adjust to compromising or considering another person; in a stepfamily situation there are lots of added stresses that can tear a couple apart; people get married for the wrong reasons; some people idealize what marriage will be and then when it isn't always that way they bail out; people have roving eyes that they can't control after a period of time; people find out they want different things and there is no compromise possible (children/no children, for example); some people present themselves a certain way and then show their true self after the wedding, and on and on.
If these are older couples, it's also possible that one or the other has been married and divorced before; I think I read somewhere that once you have been divorced you are more likely to see that as the solution to problems that arise.
To succeed, a marriage has to work for both people. It can fail if only one person decides it isn't right for him or her.
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Deleted
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May 14, 2024 6:40:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 18:06:15 GMT
(I'd share a pic privately; not on here).
To answer your question: At 2 years, we were still in the honeymoon stage. We were still telling people that we were newlyweds! We'll be married for 5 years this month, and it STILL feels like we're newlyweds. This is my 2nd marriage (his 4th-yikes!), so I think we weed out the nonsense and just are there for each other.
My first marriage lasted for almost 30 years. It started to fall apart after about 22 years. We tried fixing it, to no avail. Throwing something out didn't seem like an option. We tried and tried and it didn't work, so we (sadly) ended it. People change, things change, and even after you tried everything to work it out, it doesn't always happen. But after 2 years? Wow. That's sad.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
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Post by AnotherPea on Jul 7, 2015 18:06:39 GMT
Well, since you asked... I'll share, but my beliefs won't be popular with most of the people on this forum.
Most people don't choose wisely and they choose too quickly. It is easy to fall in love and many people mistake those first feelings of limerence as true love. True love needs to build, over time, as you put more faith and trust in someone. Finding someone that meets your criteria is great. But there are some character traits that must-haves. If your boyfriend cheats on his taxes, chances are he'll cheat you in some way down the line. If he treats the waitstaff poorly, he'll consider you a servant in a few years. If he brags about getting a new car every two years, you can guess he's not going to be much of a saver. Date for a long while and these things will eventually show themselves.
Most people are selfish. While dating it is easy to want to do for the other person but selfish nature gives way eventually. You have to truly WANT MORE for your spouse than you want for yourself.
Most people give up way too easily. Sure, there are cases here and there where Prince Charming starts beating his wife on the honeymoon. Or the groom sleeps with a bridesmaid at the reception. But for the most part, people give up way, way too easily. Whether it is the husband that gives up on his wife, the wife on the husband or both on each other.
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Post by dockmaster on Jul 7, 2015 18:07:42 GMT
Marriage is very rewarding when you do the work. I see a lot of people who are just lazy in their relationships. Two people are going to change over the years. You have to be willing to change together and find new normals.
DH and I just celebrated 20 years. In those 20 we have watched several friends marry and divorce as many as 3 times. We have gone thru our struggles, but at the end of the day we both respect each other. We always have. I wanted to be with him because I respect the person he is and he respects me.
We love each other usually, but we always respect each other.
The other thing I see lacking in a lot of relationships is communication. DH and I have spent years at this point separated by the military. But, we communicate with each other. I am not afraid to tell him what I need, and he me. The good, the bad, and the ugly.
We spend time "feeding" our marriage. We treat it like a precious gift.
I meet couples who are newly weds and long marrieds that constantly bitch about each other. I often wonder why they got together to begin with. They don't seem to like each, let a lone respect each other.
Do I always like him, nope and I am sure there are times he wishes I would just leave him alone. But we work at it.
Marriage is hard work, and you have to be willing to do that work to make it work.
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imsirius
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Post by imsirius on Jul 7, 2015 18:08:33 GMT
Do you know any of the reasons they have divorced so early? Seems to me, that maybe they weren't really wanting to marry in the first place? Some people do it because they are lonely and want companionship. Some people hate being alone or can't be alone (my FIL is like this). Could be that the person they dated, wasn't the person they married.
I've been married 18 years but with my DH for almost 23 years. I'd say the biggest factor in our relationship is compromise. We give and take and try to make sure each other understands and is happy with whatever decisions are made. We discuss everything. Even purchases. It makes it easier for US (Not to say for everyone else though).
I think respect and friendship has a lot to do with long marriages too. Having things in common or common interests certainly helps.
I'm no expert, but that is what works for us.
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Post by Woobster on Jul 7, 2015 18:13:36 GMT
My older brother and his wife divorced just shy of the two year mark. He was 35 when he got married, very stable, and waited a long time to find what he thought was the right person. Turns out, she wasn't ready to stop dating, and found herself another (older, much wealthier) man to hook up with about 16-18 months in. So, it didn't last.
I have only been married (almost) 5 years, and I'm not gonna lie... It's not always easy. DH and I both have crazy, busy schedules, and sometimes we forget to make each other a priority. When we let that slip, we both find things more difficult. We've worked hard this past year to try to make time for each other and for us. We both work full time, and I go to school full time, so it isn't always easy. However, even when it isn't easy with DH, there is still nowhere else I would rather be.
I think the key for us has been respect. Even when things aren't easy, there is never screaming and yelling. There is never intention to hurt. We sit down, talk it out, and come up with a plan to change whatever we think needs changing.
Congratulations to those of you with long, successful marriages. My parents just celebrated 40 years on Sunday, and I saw how hard they worked at times to keep it together.
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Post by Basket1lady on Jul 7, 2015 18:15:39 GMT
basket1lady, our USAA accounts are still joint. That is strange. I would not be happy if they did that to us. Doesn't seem they can just take a broad brush and do that. Sorry it happened to you. Sorry to hijack here. It's still joint, but it's not. You may want to check your account to see if you have a hidden account of your own. I went round and round with the guy yesterday. I had set up an account for the kids so that they have debit cards, now that they are driving and DS is headed off to school. But evidently, I set them up from DH's account--with the same number and passcode that I'd used for the 15 or so years I've been using online services with them and the account number I've used for 25 years. I called yesterday because the kids' cards hadn't shown up and it was going on 3 weeks. I was denied access and told they couldn't talk to me about it because I wasn't on the account. Luckily DH was home (military had Monday off for the 4th), so DH got on the phone. To top it off, they sent the cards to our Boston address, where we haven't lived for 4 years. Yet they know the kids are here, as they are insured on our car policies. And the rest of the kids' paperwork came to the house. Honestly, I've never had an issue with USAA until yesterday. And they tanked big time. But, they did what they could to make it better--canceled cards, reissued them and expedited them, added me to the accounts, etc. I can merge our two accounts, but they recommended that we wait until the kids stuff is in hand. ****************** And now back to the marriage topic. I agree with Steph. How are you so in love that you marry and then in less than two years you don't want to marry someone anymore? I definitely think our faith comes into it, but never in those first two years did I hate DH enough to want to leave him. Sure, we had plenty of fights. But to call it quits? |
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dald222
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by dald222 on Jul 7, 2015 18:20:59 GMT
I can see why you are worried. I know lots of people who have been married a long time. I left My ex husband after 6 mos because he was an ass. I knew he was an ass though & still married him. I met my second husband & he was totally different. We have been married for 35 years.
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Post by wallyagain on Jul 7, 2015 18:21:23 GMT
We'll have been married for 32 years this year. As so many have stated, marriage is hard. You have to work at it and respect each other. We went through some pretty tough times financially, but we dealt with it as a team, we never turned on each other. Of course, we were really young when we got married (DH was 19, I was 20), so we had nothing, so everything we have we earned together. We are also very good friends, we love doing things together as well as having our own interests. We also look out for each other, doing little things. There's just so many small things that make up a long lasting marriage, it's hard to put into words.
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Post by ingrid6 on Jul 7, 2015 18:24:03 GMT
Marriage is a huge commitment and isn't always easy. I think after the honeymoon phase wears off, the early years are probably the hardest. It takes work, compromise and when need be, being able to put your spouse before self. I also think that today's marriages are easily disposable. Like Patter we too have a Christ based marriage. It is a strong foundation upon which our marriage is built. Another thing is that I not only love my dh, but I really like him. We still have date nights and make sure to carve out time for just the 2 of us. We text several times a day - even if it's just a quick "love you". We have a ton of fun together and there is no one that I would rather hang out with. I also would never speak badly about him behind his back. We also decided many, many years ago never to use the "d" word. No throwing "I want a divorce' out there in the heat of an arguement just to hurt the other person. And name calling is out too. We know of some people that call each other all kinds of names - I just don't get that. Stuff you wouldn't say to a stranger on the street but will call your spouse? Seems crazy to me. |
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StephDRebel
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Posts: 6,665
Location: Ohio
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Post by StephDRebel on Jul 7, 2015 18:24:11 GMT
Well, since you asked... I'll share, but my beliefs won't be popular with most of the people on this forum. Most people don't choose wisely and they choose too quickly. It is easy to fall in love and many people mistake those first feelings of limerence as true love. True love needs to build, over time, as you put more faith and trust in someone. Finding someone that meets your criteria is great. But there are some character traits that must-haves. If your boyfriend cheats on his taxes, chances are he'll cheat you in some way down the line. If he treats the waitstaff poorly, he'll consider you a servant in a few years. If he brags about getting a new car every two years, you can guess he's not going to be much of a saver. Date for a long while and these things will eventually show themselves. Most people are selfish. While dating it is easy to want to do for the other person but selfish nature gives way eventually. You have to truly WANT MORE for your spouse than you want for yourself. Most people give up way too easily. Sure, there are cases here and there where Prince Charming starts beating his wife on the honeymoon. Or the groom sleeps with a bridesmaid at the reception. But for the most part, people give up way, way too easily. Whether it is the husband that gives up on his wife, the wife on the husband or both on each other. I'm curious, why do you think they won't be popular here? I feel like they're pretty spot on. |
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LeaP
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Post by LeaP on Jul 7, 2015 18:24:36 GMT
I'll bite  I've been married for 17 years and it is work. There are good times, bad times and indifferent times. I think that when people meet, fall in love, get engaged they get swept up in a series of events that culminate in a wedding. After the wedding comes the "now what?" time. Unless you are truly good friends and enjoy each other's company, it can be a let down. You end up in an existential crisis wondering if this is all there is. The truth is there is a lot of blah time and some people don't associate it with being married. |
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Post by peasapie on Jul 7, 2015 18:30:18 GMT
Sometimes divorces among friends or families seem to have a domino effect...once one couple gets divorced, others follow suit. I've seen this a few times. Maybe it's the same effect as seeing others getting married and causing others to think they should, too, or seeing your friends having babies and wanting one, too.
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Post by kryssy on Jul 7, 2015 18:35:12 GMT
I think some people these days aren't really willing to work for something, if it becomes even the slightest bit difficult... and this applies to relationships, careers -- anything that you get into for supposedly the "long haul"... The second life hits a rough patch, people are looking for the escape hatch -- they feel sad, angry, annoyed, bored, etc, and the solution to feeling "good" again is to get out of that situation, whatever it is. Instead of really dissecting the problem and figuring out the root cause, they disengage, because staying to figure it out means they would CONTINUE to feel sad, angry, annoyed, or bored, and that's just unacceptable. I get it. People WANT to be happy, and if something gets in the way of that, the knee-jerk reaction is to simply remove it. And sometimes, that is the best course of action... but sometimes, stepping back to get a larger perspective, even though it means the pain continues for a while, can provide better clarity. That's my armchair psychologist opinion, anyway. |
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valleyview
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Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Jul 7, 2015 18:48:49 GMT
I think that your reflection on your first marriage is actually applicable to many second marriages, @stephdrebel. I think people marry out of fear. My father did that after my mother died. He was afraid of being alone, and decided to marry because he was happy. Big mistake. Once his wife tried to live with him, it was evident that they should not be married. The saddest thing was that their divorce caused as much of a stink as their marriage had.
Sometimes friends can be lovers, but lovers need to be friends. If DH could not make me laugh and sustain our coupleness on inside jokes and shared memories, our marriage would have had bigger bumps along its very long road.
You also need trust. I think that it takes awhile to get there.
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freebird
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'cause I'm free as a bird now
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Post by freebird on Jul 7, 2015 18:52:07 GMT
I think that people are too hung up on the word "soulmate" and that feeling you get in a new relationship... you know, they piss excellence. After a marriage and you see their socks on the floor for the 900th time, the shine wears off. I believe we should stick around until we see the warts, and if you still want to be married, now it's time.
My 7th anniversary was Saturday, you can see us in my avatar. I still feel like a newlywed. He is truly the love of my life.
FWIW, I've shot well over 100 weddings and I've only had one divorce. That one didn't shock me at all, they didn't see much into each other. They didn't make it a year, and they had a 2 year old when they got married.
PS - I totally was like "WTF" when I read your title, I thought you were saying you two were over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 19:05:14 GMT
I tend to think like others have said that marriage anymore is just too disposable. We have been married for almost 24 years. I can tell you that there have been some hard times. Hard times. Times that I felt like I wanted to walk but in the end we worked it out. The older I get the more I realize that the things that drove me crazy enough to think that way years ago was actually nothing.
I know us well enough to know that there will be ups and downs. I can love him like crazy in the morning and he can be on my shit list by dinner and me on his. It's just the way it is. We get over it and move on.
He is absolutely my best friend. Even when I am mad at him I want to tell him things that happened during my day or he is the one that I want to go "somewhere" with. We just get each other.
I cannot imagine giving up and walking away unless there was some major deal breaker. But I see it all of the time. So many just do not put the effort into making it work. She burns the mac and cheese and by morning he has filed for divorce!
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Post by originalvanillabean on Jul 7, 2015 19:05:32 GMT
What do you think they keys to making it last are? What are some things to do to make sure that your marriage stays in balance and you continue to like each other through the years? I think communication and compromise are most important. Make time for one another. We were at a friends home this weekend and the hostess said "you guys are such a sweet couple". She told me about DH pulling a note out of his wallet and showing all of them at the last game night. It was just a note on a post it, that I had stuck in his wallet, the last time he took a trip. It made me feel good, that it made him feel good. The fact that he was showing off a post it note, really warmed my heart and made me love him just a tiny bit more. |
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Post by Linda on Jul 7, 2015 19:06:05 GMT
Our 16th anniversary is this year - first marriage for both of us. We went into marriage determined to make it work - divorce is a 'forbidden' word in our marriage...we both believe that once divorce is on the table as a possibility, it's much more likely to happen.
It took us a long time to marry - we met at 13, dated at 19, were engaged at 20, pregnant and separated by 21 and reconciled at 27 (long-distance at first) and didn't marry until we were 29. We figure that we survived all that, we can survive anything and so far it's been true.
It's not always been easy - there have been times when divorce would have been the easier option at least on the surface (certainly we had people wondering why we didn't and suggesting that we consider it) but we've persevered and I think come out stronger on the other side.
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Deleted
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May 14, 2024 6:40:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 19:11:43 GMT
I thought this too at first.
I've seen many marriages fall apart quickly. For many, I've noticed that one or the other didn't want to change from the lifestyle one has when single to the lifestyle that comes with being married. I don't mean the boring, we never do anything lifestyle. I mean the whole "you have another person to think about. Your actions can and will affect them" thing. My Dad's cousin is getting divorced for the 5th (6th??) time. This time, it's because he was accoustomed to doing what he wanted, when he wanted to. If he wanted to golf all day, that's what he did. He thought it wouldn't change after they got married. Now they're divorced. This is a woman in her 60's so you'd think she'd learn but it seems like she dates a lot of selfish men that like the idea of having a wife around but not taking care of the relationship.
My former SIL divorced her last husband because she thought he'd change after they had a baby together. He didn't. Now she has joint custody with a man who puts himself first most of the time. She's engaged to be married for a third time. (I don't know the whole story behind the first marriage as it was before me)
The biggest reason is that two people come together but do not change or grow together. Somewhere along the way, someone changed and it just doesn't work anymore. Some people can figure out how to make it work. Others just throw their hands up and say "I'm too old for this shit" and walk away.
And I have to wonder, how many of these second marriages had minor children involved and custody issues? DH and I have a good relationship but I can see the issues we have with my ex and the boys becoming a bump that may be too hard to get over. As the boys get older, it'll get easier because we're getting closer to the empty nest stage, but right now, my biggest worry is that the resentment will build up to a point where we can't get past it.
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Gennifer
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Post by Gennifer on Jul 7, 2015 19:17:11 GMT
I dunno... For me, the relationship with my husband is the easiest one in my life. I don't see our marriage as work, and I never have. We've been married for 16 years, and we have had tough times, but we were in them together.
The problem I see most often in my area (Utah) is that people marry very quickly. It's not at all uncommon to go from first date to engaged to married within 6 months, and it's very difficult to truly know a person in that short of a time frame. Having said that, I don't actually know that many divorced couples. Less than 10 in my immediate circle of family/friends/coworkers/neighbors.
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I've been married for 17 years and it is work. There are good times, bad times and indifferent times. 
