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Post by moveablefeast on Dec 31, 2015 17:51:38 GMT
i personally see no reason to send an 11yo to bed at 9pm on NYE. That's the age when you start desperately trying to stay awake to watch the countdown and usually fall asleep on the couch in the process. If you want all adult time, get a babysitter and do that. But when you're just all in someone's house hanging out? I see no reason older kids should be sent to bed early just so that the adults can drink and swear. The littler kids can watch one of the Netflix countdowns at an earlier and hour and go to bed. Then I would set up a bunch of kid snacks and a Netflix double feature after dinner, and designate one space as kid space and one space as grownup space. That should give you three hours of CAH time and the kids get a mini party of their own and it's still fun for them. But generally speaking I always find it kind of odd when people have these big families with a dozen kids among them and then act like the kids are cramping their style. It kind of comes with the territory. Kids can stay up as long as they want... in a completely separate space. Unless it's a family style party, kids should have their own space for their own party and leave the adults alone. Kids really do cramp the style of adults at a party, even though people (parents mostly) really want to think they don't. They do. When kids are about, it's all about the kids, all about their needs and wants. I'm a firm believer that if you're going to have kids at a party without proper bedtimes, then there needs to be a specially designated place for the kids to be after a certain hour. I just don't see the need for kids to pretend they are grown up and interrupt the adult party. But I think that mostly comes from the fact that I see more and more things that used be for adults only become family spaces and I'm just tired of going everywhere and there are kids running around and screaming and just generally being out of control. Yes, there are kids who can behave and don't act like monsters but those get drowned out by the ones whose parents just can't or won't control them. I think I'm just tired of the kid-centric society these days. The problem here is that nobody set NYE up to be adults only. Right now it's just an all ages show and some folks are feeling annoyed that their own brood is getting in the way. If it is desired for it to be adults only then the answer is very easy - you get a babysitter and make a plan for the kids to have something to do. But you can't put a bunch of families with kids in one house with no plan for the kids other than "go color" and wonder why the kids are underfoot. Of course kids don't have to interrupt the adult party but it is the job of the parents to facilitate that. Otherwise all the kids know is there's something fun going on and they're being ignored for the night - so of course they get in the way.
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grinningcat
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Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Dec 31, 2015 17:54:40 GMT
Kids can stay up as long as they want... in a completely separate space. Unless it's a family style party, kids should have their own space for their own party and leave the adults alone. Kids really do cramp the style of adults at a party, even though people (parents mostly) really want to think they don't. They do. When kids are about, it's all about the kids, all about their needs and wants. I'm a firm believer that if you're going to have kids at a party without proper bedtimes, then there needs to be a specially designated place for the kids to be after a certain hour. I just don't see the need for kids to pretend they are grown up and interrupt the adult party. But I think that mostly comes from the fact that I see more and more things that used be for adults only become family spaces and I'm just tired of going everywhere and there are kids running around and screaming and just generally being out of control. Yes, there are kids who can behave and don't act like monsters but those get drowned out by the ones whose parents just can't or won't control them. I think I'm just tired of the kid-centric society these days. The problem here is that nobody set NYE up to be adults only. Right now it's just an all ages show and some folks are feeling annoyed that their own brood is getting in the way. If it is desired for it to be adults only then the answer is very easy - you get a babysitter and make a plan for the kids to have something to do. But you can't put a bunch of families with kids in one house with no plan for the kids other than "go color" and wonder why the kids are underfoot. I agree with you. Though I will say that I do think that NYE is more of an adults only thing. Yes, do the kids countdown earlier in the evening and all that, but after 9 or so? Sorry, either go to bed or go in another room and leave the adults alone. I will put the blame on the parents not having control and not having anything appropriate set up for their kids to do. It drives me crazy to see a kid brought to an event and they bring nothing and have no problem with the kid carousing all the time. There should be appropriate activities put in place for both groups, but few parents seem to want to do that. And I'm tired of it.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Dec 31, 2015 18:07:41 GMT
I think you have to acknowledge that this is a FAMILY vacation - equating it to a NYE party is going to exacerbate the issue imo. Often families DO want the kids to participate - at least some - expecting that their 11 year old daughter entertain herself for a week in the evenings while her toddler cousins are in bed is unrealistic.
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Post by myshelly on Dec 31, 2015 18:14:34 GMT
I think you have to acknowledge that this is a FAMILY vacation - equating it to a NYE party is going to exacerbate the issue imo. Often families DO want the kids to participate - at least some - expecting that their 11 year old daughter entertain herself for a week in the evenings while her toddler cousins are in bed is unrealistic. I totally agree with this. The setting is important. We are talking about a FAMILY vacation. We don't ever try to separate the adults and kids at family events. Frankly, the kids are the entertainment and we enjoy watching them play together. I don't think expecting an 11 yr old to adhere to a bedtime on vacation while the adults stay up and have fun is realistic or nice. I would have resented the hell out of that as a kid. That's not how I was treated by my family.
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 31, 2015 18:17:03 GMT
My kids are 11 and 14. They have been allowed to stay up later when there isn't school for a couple of years. They stay up until at least 10. I would not make them go to bed earlier and it wouldn't be because they walk all over me.
I think a better compromise would be to have an alternate activity available for the kids that is fun.
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 31, 2015 18:20:38 GMT
The problem here is that nobody set NYE up to be adults only. Right now it's just an all ages show and some folks are feeling annoyed that their own brood is getting in the way. If it is desired for it to be adults only then the answer is very easy - you get a babysitter and make a plan for the kids to have something to do. But you can't put a bunch of families with kids in one house with no plan for the kids other than "go color" and wonder why the kids are underfoot. I agree with you. Though I will say that I do think that NYE is more of an adults only thing. Yes, do the kids countdown earlier in the evening and all that, but after 9 or so? Sorry, either go to bed or go in another room and leave the adults alone. I will put the blame on the parents not having control and not having anything appropriate set up for their kids to do. It drives me crazy to see a kid brought to an event and they bring nothing and have no problem with the kid carousing all the time. There should be appropriate activities put in place for both groups, but few parents seem to want to do that. And I'm tired of it. But this isn't an adult NYE party. This is multiple related families together for a week or so. Again, it has nothing to do with not controlling the kid (or it would't in my case) but rather that one family believes kids should go to bed at a certain time. My kids have stayed up until midnight for years. Why should they have to go to bed at 9? I do agree that there should be some age appropriate activities for the kids, but again, this isn't a NYE party.
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Post by hollymolly on Dec 31, 2015 18:48:02 GMT
I like the idea of announcing that the adults are removing themselves to another area to play adult games as opposed to wishing and/hinting that mom should remove 11 year old.
At the same time, I'm also in the camp that sees this as family time. I don't think I've ever had adult-only time with my siblings. One-on-one, yes, but not in a group setting. We don't travel together as a family, and we all live close together, so there are differences. But even at that, it sounds like you are still getting more "adult time" with your family than I get. And that's ok with me. It's just a matter of family dynamics. I'd love to play CAH with my family, we are all very funny and twisted, but that is never going to be a reality for us. The big, inclusive family gathering is worth it to me.
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Post by myshelly on Dec 31, 2015 19:10:47 GMT
I like the idea of announcing that the adults are removing themselves to another area to play adult games as opposed to wishing and/hinting that mom should remove 11 year old. At the same time, I'm also in the camp that sees this as family time. I don't think I've ever had adult-only time with my siblings. One-on-one, yes, but not in a group setting. We don't travel together as a family, and we all live close together, so there are differences. But even at that, it sounds like you are still getting more "adult time" with your family than I get. And that's ok with me. It's just a matter of family dynamics. I'd love to play CAH with my family, we are all very funny and twisted, but that is never going to be a reality for us. The big, inclusive family gathering is worth it to me. This is exactly how I feel. Adult time just isn't an expectation of a family gathering for me. Family gathering equals family time. Kids are part of the family. It would never even occur to me to want/expect separate adult time.
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Post by femalebusiness on Dec 31, 2015 19:13:40 GMT
I'm an adult and I'd be removing myself, my husband and anyone else who wanted to go, to the nearest pub. Let mom of the 11 years old stay home with the kids. Problem solved.
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 31, 2015 19:16:51 GMT
I'm an adult and I'd be removing myself, my husband and anyone else who wanted to go, to the nearest pub. Let mom of the 11 years old stay home with the kids. Problem solved. except the op has the youngest children there. Of course they go to bed early. I'd like to know what happens when the op's kids are older.
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Post by femalebusiness on Dec 31, 2015 19:23:39 GMT
I'm an adult and I'd be removing myself, my husband and anyone else who wanted to go, to the nearest pub. Let mom of the 11 years old stay home with the kids. Problem solved. except the op has the youngest children there. Of course they go to bed early. I'd like to know what happens when the op's kids are older. As I said, mom of 11 year old is going to be there anyway. If she is rude enough to inflict her child on the adults at adult time then I'd be rude enough to leave her with all the kids while I went to have fun. Besides the younger kids would be in bed What is she going to do about it if you leave?
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 31, 2015 19:25:36 GMT
except the op has the youngest children there. Of course they go to bed early. I'd like to know what happens when the op's kids are older. As I said, mom of 11 year old is going to be there anyway. If she is rude enough to inflict her child on the adults at adult time then I'd be rude enough to leave her with all the kids while I went to have fun. Besides the younger kids would be in bed What is she going to do about it if you leave? take her kids and leave? What is adult time? Who decides what time that is?
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Kerri W
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Post by Kerri W on Dec 31, 2015 19:40:53 GMT
I think you have to acknowledge that this is a FAMILY vacation - equating it to a NYE party is going to exacerbate the issue imo. Often families DO want the kids to participate - at least some - expecting that their 11 year old daughter entertain herself for a week in the evenings while her toddler cousins are in bed is unrealistic. I totally agree with this. The setting is important. We are talking about a FAMILY vacation. We don't ever try to separate the adults and kids at family events. Frankly, the kids are the entertainment and we enjoy watching them play together. I don't think expecting an 11 yr old to adhere to a bedtime on vacation while the adults stay up and have fun is realistic or nice. I would have resented the hell out of that as a kid. That's not how I was treated by my family. Let's reiterate for the 189089083490 time that this *isn't* an adult NYE party. It's a family vacation. The 11 yo is on vacation too. And dare I say it, part of the family. Of course there is a time and place for including children and I'm not saying she should be included in every activity, but I really think the OP would have a different perspective if her children were older. I absolutely remember the days of my children being small. It's exhausting. And when 8:00 came you can bet they were shipped off to bed with glee on my part. Things are different when your children are older. DH and I are both the youngest children in our families. My family is very family oriented and kids are involved in everything. We know that and expect that. In Dhs family our boys are the youngest by 10 years or so and even at 10 and 17, the rest of the family simply does not interact with them. There are semi-courteous "Oh wow have you grown!" but nobody goes out of their way to really talk to them or *do* anything with them. There is no interest in them as people. The boys absolutely despise spending time with that side of the family (though they go and sit at the kitchen table respectfully and smile and hug when appropriate-then work dad for a couple weeks afterword because DH feels guilty) and talk all year long about our huge family campout where it's a weekend of family togetherness. I get it...because I happen to have a very precocious 12 yo niece who has no boundaries and she's difficult to be around. But it's a week a year and we do it because we're family.
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Post by femalebusiness on Dec 31, 2015 20:00:20 GMT
As I said, mom of 11 year old is going to be there anyway. If she is rude enough to inflict her child on the adults at adult time then I'd be rude enough to leave her with all the kids while I went to have fun. Besides the younger kids would be in bed What is she going to do about it if you leave? take her kids and leave? What is adult time? Who decides what time that is? Well if she took her kids and left my problem would still be solved. I decide what is adult time for me. I'm really not trying be argumentative, I just don't understand why people put up with situations that they don't like. I realize that it is a family vacation and the kids are part of that but I would not be spending my evenings with an 11 year old and her clueless mother. It's my vacation too.
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 31, 2015 20:21:51 GMT
take her kids and leave? What is adult time? Who decides what time that is? Well if she took her kids and left my problem would still be solved. I decide what is adult time for me. I'm really not trying be argumentative, I just don't understand why people put up with situations that they don't like. I realize that it is a family vacation and the kids are part of that but I would not be spending my evenings with an 11 year old and her clueless mother. It's my vacation too. then why not go to your own room or to a different room? Leaving your own young children seems a bit extreme. What is the 11 year old supposed to do in the evening? Go to bed by 8?
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TheOtherMeg
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Dec 31, 2015 21:07:55 GMT
My family is huge, and now includes four generations when we can get together. We love and dote on all the "kids," who now span two generations and range in age from 2 to 36.
A family vacation that lasts more than a day or two definitely merits some time for the adults (of any generation) to hang out together. The trick is to have something fun and appropriate for the non-adults -- of all ages -- to do while the adults are doing their thing(s).
It's unreasonable to expect kids in a wide age range to be entertained in the same way, and on the same schedule.
It's a bummer the 11yo in the OP has no cousins her age with whom to hang out, but that doesn't mean she should be spending all her time with the adults. She can spend some of her time with the younger kids, just as the adults will undoubtedly spend some of their time with all the kids.
Some special accommodations need to be made for the 11yo. Is there a laptop/portable DVD player available? She could be set up somewhere with a book/movie (or two) and some snacks just for her. Perhaps a trip to the store/Redbox to pick these things out would make her feel special. We've done this a time or two with my younger kids (twins who are the youngest of their generation by a long shot) and they loved it.
I agree that family vacations are for everyone in the family, but I also feel there's nothing at all wrong with adults being allowed to have some time together. A family vacation doesn't necessarily mean that all activities have to be available/appropriate for all ages all the time.
In a couple years, the few years between the now-11yo and her younger cousins won't be a factor. Until then, plans should be made to provide her with something to do at least one or two nights during a week-long family vacation so the adults can visit.
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Post by femalebusiness on Dec 31, 2015 21:28:52 GMT
Well if she took her kids and left my problem would still be solved. I decide what is adult time for me. I'm really not trying be argumentative, I just don't understand why people put up with situations that they don't like. I realize that it is a family vacation and the kids are part of that but I would not be spending my evenings with an 11 year old and her clueless mother. It's my vacation too. then why not go to your own room or to a different room? Leaving your own young children seems a bit extreme. What is the 11 year old supposed to do in the evening? Go to bed by 8? I would not go hole up in my room because it's my vacation and I want to relax and have fun...adult fun. What the eleven year old does is not my problem. I would never tell another parent what to do with their own kid, however, I would voice my discomfort with a child that age being present every evening. After that I would just remove myself and not to a bedroom either. Like I said I'd be down at the local pub with the other adults. Leaving my young, sleeping children with the adult who chooses to stay home is absolutely something that I would do. I don't consider that to be extreme, throwing children to the wolves or endangering them. Did you never leave your children for a couple of hours with another adult? If I recall freecharlie you are a teacher. (I always remember posts but rarely remember who said what so I could be wrong.) If so you have a much higher tolerance for children than I do. I'd slit my wrists rather than be with kids all day. Having said that, I do like kids a lot. At every family gathering, when the kids were small, I was usually the one playing with all the kids. I've always been the favorite fun aunt. But I would not spend every evening of my vacation, that I paid for, with an 11 year old that I didn't care for. Of course I know better than to spend an entire week with family. My tolerance is about two days. And on that note I will wish you all a Happy New Year and go start preparing for my fun night of adult fun.
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Post by cmpeter on Dec 31, 2015 21:52:15 GMT
I agree with this. And, in our family, if we wanted adult only time while on vacation, we would hire a sitter and the adults would go out to a local pub, bar, restaurant, etc. I wouldn't expect an 11 year old to go to bed early or entertain herself. Spending time with my nieces and nephews is one of my favorite things to do though.
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 31, 2015 21:55:21 GMT
Yes, I teach high school (but have taught other levels). I do have a fairly high tolerance. We do a large family vacation every couple of years. My oldest is 14 and youngest is 11. I wouldn't make them go sit in theit bedroom anymore than you want to sit in yours.
Mine would have no problem disappearing to watch a movie or play on their tablets, but they probably wouldn't do so until 9 or 10 unless they were bored.
I don't believe sending an older child to bed is the answer
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2015 22:20:28 GMT
I understand the desire to want just adult time but I think when a whole family is on vacation, those adult time moments might just be bonuses and you might generally have to go with the flow otherwise. I'd probably resent it initially and then quickly realize this is the way it's going to be
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Dec 31, 2015 23:07:15 GMT
I don't understand this kind of stuff amongst family. I wouldn't tolerate it. I would personally tell the child she is not invited to play the game. The end. then in out family we would sit there making the parents feel stupid until the made the correct move and sent her away. Or I would suggest mom and dad play something else because the game is not for her. The end. She is the child. If her parents aren't going to do anything about it then you should. It's your vacation time too.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Dec 31, 2015 23:21:33 GMT
It drives me crazy when parents let their kids walk all over them and completely stomp over parties because they think they are old enough. NO. Kids should be ushered out of a party and sent to bed or some other kid activity at some point in the evening so that the adults can be adults instead of watching their mouths because of the kids. Nothing pisses me off more when little snowflakes think they are so entitled that they get to be an adult before they are actually adults. I'd bring out the Cards Against Humanity and completely ignore the kid. If the parents are too mushy and incompetent to put their kids to bed at an appropriate hour so, then the kid will have to deal with what's dished out. I'm tired of kids being in charge of their parents and I'm tired of a society where kids are the number one priority and they are allowed to go anywhere at any time. While I think the Victorians were harsh with their "kids should be seen and not heard"mantra and the very strict separation of kids and adults, I think they were on to something and it's unfortunate that we've swayed so far in the other direction. My sister lets her kids run her household and it drives me nuts because of course it rolls into family functions at my parent's house. My dd has ADHD and her trigger is lack of sleep, so she was always in bed early (for holiday/vacation time) but we knew she had to do it. It sucked for her for a couple of years, but now at 16 she realizes why and is fine with going when she needs to. But it was very annoying when she'd be in bed by 9 or 10 and her younger niece and nephew (12 and 8 now) were still up and of course running around wanting to play and talk with the adults well past midnight
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Post by myshelly on Dec 31, 2015 23:23:02 GMT
take her kids and leave? What is adult time? Who decides what time that is? Well if she took her kids and left my problem would still be solved. I decide what is adult time for me. I'm really not trying be argumentative, I just don't understand why people put up with situations that they don't like. I realize that it is a family vacation and the kids are part of that but I would not be spending my evenings with an 11 year old and her clueless mother. It's my vacation too. I guess I don't understand the point of going on a *family* vacation if you feel that way. To me the purpose of going on a family vacation is to spend time with family. Kids are part of the family.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Dec 31, 2015 23:27:05 GMT
I like the idea of announcing that the adults are removing themselves to another area to play adult games as opposed to wishing and/hinting that mom should remove 11 year old.At the same time, I'm also in the camp that sees this as family time. I don't think I've ever had adult-only time with my siblings. One-on-one, yes, but not in a group setting. We don't travel together as a family, and we all live close together, so there are differences. But even at that, it sounds like you are still getting more "adult time" with your family than I get. And that's ok with me. It's just a matter of family dynamics. I'd love to play CAH with my family, we are all very funny and twisted, but that is never going to be a reality for us. The big, inclusive family gathering is worth it to me. I like the idea of moving the adults to a different room if you can. Sadly for us, we couldn't do this during Christmas and couldn't fill the stockings until midnight because of my niece and nephew still being up Actually I got fed up and took my stuff upstairs and started filling mine just after 11:30 but as a group we didn't get done until 2:30 because of the late start.
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Dec 31, 2015 23:32:05 GMT
Well if she took her kids and left my problem would still be solved. I decide what is adult time for me. I'm really not trying be argumentative, I just don't understand why people put up with situations that they don't like. I realize that it is a family vacation and the kids are part of that but I would not be spending my evenings with an 11 year old and her clueless mother. It's my vacation too. I guess I don't understand the point of going on a *family* vacation if you feel that way. To me the purpose of going on a family vacation is to spend time with family. Kids are part of the family. Kids are part of family, but at some point I see no issues with sending kids to bed. I love my nieces and nephews but adult only time is important to me. There are lots of things that shouldn't involve kids including conversation. If I only see my sisters on vacation then there will be a need for those face to face adult conversations that are not for kids. In the evenings over a game or a glass of wine, etc.
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Post by bostonmama on Dec 31, 2015 23:42:51 GMT
Well if she took her kids and left my problem would still be solved. I decide what is adult time for me. I'm really not trying be argumentative, I just don't understand why people put up with situations that they don't like. I realize that it is a family vacation and the kids are part of that but I would not be spending my evenings with an 11 year old and her clueless mother. It's my vacation too. I guess I don't understand the point of going on a *family* vacation if you feel that way. To me the purpose of going on a family vacation is to spend time with family. Kids are part of the family. When 90% of the waking hours on family vacations are spent in kid-friendly and kid-focused activities, it seems COMPLETELY reasonable to have an 'after 9 is adults only' policy.
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Jan 1, 2016 0:00:07 GMT
I guess I don't understand the point of going on a *family* vacation if you feel that way. To me the purpose of going on a family vacation is to spend time with family. Kids are part of the family. When 90% of the waking hours on family vacations are spent in kid-friendly and kid-focused activities, it seems COMPLETELY reasonable to have an 'after 9 is adults only' policy. Exactly. I have never understood the "must spend time with everyone all the time" during family vacations or events. No one I know spends every waking minute with every other person, and smaller groups are always allowed and expected... not to mention, that kids and adults get separated at some point because no kid and adult likes the same things all the time. I wouldn't go on a family vacation if I wasn't able to have some alone time or some time without the kids. Just not a good vacation in my book.
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Jan 1, 2016 0:02:40 GMT
I agree with you. Though I will say that I do think that NYE is more of an adults only thing. Yes, do the kids countdown earlier in the evening and all that, but after 9 or so? Sorry, either go to bed or go in another room and leave the adults alone. I will put the blame on the parents not having control and not having anything appropriate set up for their kids to do. It drives me crazy to see a kid brought to an event and they bring nothing and have no problem with the kid carousing all the time. There should be appropriate activities put in place for both groups, but few parents seem to want to do that. And I'm tired of it. But this isn't an adult NYE party. This is multiple related families together for a week or so. Again, it has nothing to do with not controlling the kid (or it would't in my case) but rather that one family believes kids should go to bed at a certain time. My kids have stayed up until midnight for years. Why should they have to go to bed at 9? I do agree that there should be some age appropriate activities for the kids, but again, this isn't a NYE party. No it's not just a NYE party, but there still needs to be some kind of separation of kids and adults. Especially because it's so many days in a row. Do you want to spend every waking minute with the whole group? Or catering to the kids' needs? I know no one who does, well not until I read this thread. Kids can stay up until midnight, but why do they have to spend it with the adults? They should be able to entertain themselves if they want to stay up so late instead of interrupting the adults.
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Post by beaglemom on Jan 1, 2016 0:08:45 GMT
I guess I don't understand the point of going on a *family* vacation if you feel that way. To me the purpose of going on a family vacation is to spend time with family. Kids are part of the family. When 90% of the waking hours on family vacations are spent in kid-friendly and kid-focused activities, it seems COMPLETELY reasonable to have an 'after 9 is adults only' policy. Thank you! We have been spending all day every day doing kids stuff. Yesterday everyone other than the inlaws, me and my 2 year old skied and then we all had dinner together and then 5 of the adults took her by herself to see the new Star Wars movie. The other kids were asleep when they got home, 9:45ish. She insisted in joining in the game and didn't leave until 11. Today we spent the whole day together, we will all be going to dinner together and then of course since it is NYE spending the evening together. Tomorrow is another full day of skiing and then dinner for my fil's birthday. This is the only time we get to see some of these adults. I would have no problem hiring a sitter. However since I don't live in the area I don't know anyone and they don't have anyone they use up in the mountains and even down at their houses they rarely use them. When we were out at Thanksgiving I asked my sil a number of times to call their sitter and find a night when they were available so the adults could go out together. Never happened.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 1, 2016 1:12:42 GMT
then why not go to your own room or to a different room? Leaving your own young children seems a bit extreme. What is the 11 year old supposed to do in the evening? Go to bed by 8? I would not go hole up in my room because it's my vacation and I want to relax and have fun...adult fun. What the eleven year old does is not my problem. I would never tell another parent what to do with their own kid, however, I would voice my discomfort with a child that age being present every evening. After that I would just remove myself and not to a bedroom either. Like I said I'd be down at the local pub with the other adults. Leaving my young, sleeping children with the adult who chooses to stay home is absolutely something that I would do. I don't consider that to be extreme, throwing children to the wolves or endangering them. Did you never leave your children for a couple of hours with another adult? If I recall freecharlie you are a teacher. (I always remember posts but rarely remember who said what so I could be wrong.) If so you have a much higher tolerance for children than I do. I'd slit my wrists rather than be with kids all day. Having said that, I do like kids a lot. At every family gathering, when the kids were small, I was usually the one playing with all the kids. I've always been the favorite fun aunt. But I would not spend every evening of my vacation, that I paid for, with an 11 year old that I didn't care for. Of course I know better than to spend an entire week with family. My tolerance is about two days. And on that note I will wish you all a Happy New Year and go start preparing for my fun night of adult fun. So now you are proposing a different type of drama-filled situation--"My selfish SIL left me to babysit her kids while they all went to the bar on our family vacation." And no, I am not saying that the OP is selfish. I am just saying that could easily be a thread title here on 2peas. I do think that the OP's opinions would be different if her kids were older. I have been thinking of this situation and trying to put myself in the OP's shoes as well as thinking about our family get together last weekend (and hoping that the other adults in my family don't feel about my kids like the OP does about her niece, since all of my nieces and nephews are younger than my older two kids--one thing I have learned since being a parent is that it is easy to say what you would do in a situation if you aren't in it or if you haven't experienced that stage in your child's life yet). Anyway, if we were at my mom's and the adults decided they were going to play CAH or the like, I would not expect them to find something else to do and I would tell any kids that were still up that they either need to go to bed (depending on the time) or go elsewhere in the house. If that happened every night and my DS was having to go off on his own for most of the evening, I would probably suggest other activities that DS could take part of since it is a family vacation. My SIL and I had the discussion last week regarding her having a few hours after the kids go to bed to do what she wants, and realizing that when her kids are older that won't be the case. I don't think parents of young kids get that most of the time. They do start to stay up later and you don't get that "me" time or "adult" time like you did when they were two.
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