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Post by librarylady on Mar 26, 2016 20:30:34 GMT
Wondering how you think this will play out. It involves my friend, not me.
Friend is D
D is retired and owns a vacation trailer--about 21 ft. long. She wanted to move out of the city now that she is retired.
She looked and found a new housing area.
She spoke with the builder. He told her that her trailer would be allowed. She paid $5,000 to have a concrete pad placed in the side yard for the trailer, as well as having an electrical outlet on the outside near the trailer. She has it in writing (in her papers to build the home) that parking the trailer would be allowed. She specifically asked about all these things when she searched for her new home. Builder helped her select a lot that would make the trailer less visible from the street.
Her neighborhood is small. One long U shaped street and a small cross street that connects the 2 sides of the U.
The day she moved the trailer into the parking area--a man rushed up, got out of his car--never introduced himself, just began talking in a hostile manner and told her "You can't park that here. It is not allowed." She did not get into a real discussion with him, just rather dismissed him with, "I have permission." Man kept blustering--she finally told him, "Do you know xyz?" He said yes (that is the builder).
She told him that xyz gave her permission. She told me she was just matter of fact and didn't engage in argument with the man. In the discussion the man said he was president of the HOA.
About a month has passed. D has not yet slept in the home. She is moving into it slowly. She had some day surgery and is not in a rush to move in. Last weekend she took the trailer out on a camping trip. When she got home (to the new home), she had a certified letter from the HOA saying that the trailer was not allowed and she would be fined $1,000 per day for each day it is in the yard. Apparently HOA knows she has written permission as the HOA offered her $3,000 to move it. (Her comment: I paid $5,000 to park it, why would I take $3,000 - plus a monthly storage fee to park it elsewhere?)
Her brother called the builder. D was in day surgery that day. Builder told her brother not to worry. Builder also said he would go back and give D a fence that is 10 ft. tall in hopes of placating the HOA.
D says she will fight them on this since she did her homework prior to purchasing the home.
All this has put a damper on her enthusiasm for her new home. She worries about hostile neighbors when she is totally moved in.
So--guessing game for the peas..........
Do you think a judge/jury would back the HOA or D?
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Post by moveablefeast on Mar 26, 2016 20:34:05 GMT
What do the covenants say?
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Post by magentapea on Mar 26, 2016 20:35:47 GMT
Who was in control of the HOA when she received written permission allowing the trailer? If the builder wasn't in control of it, then I don't think he had the right to allow for a variance of the bylaws for her.
Tell her to check her HOA documents thoroughly to make sure they have the right to fine her. I know in our HOA, we can't impose fines because it isn't written into our CCR/HOA bylaws.
Lisa
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Post by librarylady on Mar 26, 2016 20:40:40 GMT
Builder is in control of HOA rules until he has built all the homes and then he turns it over to the HOA--which has not happened yet....actually I am not sure if the "reins" have been handed over. Builder didn't know they had sent the letter.
The odd thing--the same man who signed the approval letter is the same man who signed the "get the trailer out letter."
When the brother said to builder, "We are confused because XX wrote first letter and XX wrote second letter." Builder said, "Yes, you are wondering if he is crazy."
My thought: Wouldn't she be grandfathered in, since it was done prior to the new regime taking over?
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calgal08
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,519
Jun 27, 2014 15:43:46 GMT
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Post by calgal08 on Mar 26, 2016 20:41:07 GMT
HOA is completely separate to the builder and the HOA rules. Have her read the HOA Bylaws and any Amendments. Even if they can't fine her, chances are she will have to move the trailer to a new location
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Post by freecharlie on Mar 26, 2016 20:42:55 GMT
Builder is in control of HOA rules until he has built all the homes and then he turns it over to the HOA--which has not happened yet....actually I am not sure if the "reins" have been handed over. Builder didn't know they had sent the letter. The odd thing--the same man who signed the approval letter is the same man who signed the "get the trailer out letter." When the brother said to builder, "We are confused because XX wrote first letter and XX wrote second letter." Builder said, "Yes, you are wondering if he is crazy." My thought: Wouldn't she be grandfathered in, since it was done prior to the new regime taking over? is the approval letter for the slab of concrete or the parking? |
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Post by librarylady on Mar 26, 2016 20:43:10 GMT
HOA is completely separate to the builder and the HOA rules. Have her read the HOA Bylaws and any Amendments. Even if they can't fine her, chances are she will have to move the trailer to a new location When she agreed to build the home, the list of HOA rules (that she was given) did not prohibit the trailer. |
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Post by librarylady on Mar 26, 2016 20:44:05 GMT
Builder is in control of HOA rules until he has built all the homes and then he turns it over to the HOA--which has not happened yet....actually I am not sure if the "reins" have been handed over. Builder didn't know they had sent the letter. The odd thing--the same man who signed the approval letter is the same man who signed the "get the trailer out letter." When the brother said to builder, "We are confused because XX wrote first letter and XX wrote second letter." Builder said, "Yes, you are wondering if he is crazy." My thought: Wouldn't she be grandfathered in, since it was done prior to the new regime taking over? is the approval letter for the slab of concrete or the parking? That part, I do not know. |
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Post by chaosisapony on Mar 26, 2016 20:45:00 GMT
She needs to go before the HOA board with the letter stating she has permission as well as have the builder attend or write a letter on her behalf since he was in charge of the HOA at that time. I highly doubt she'll win but she should.
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Post by freecharlie on Mar 26, 2016 20:45:59 GMT
HOA is completely separate to the builder and the HOA rules. Have her read the HOA Bylaws and any Amendments. Even if they can't fine her, chances are she will have to move the trailer to a new location When she agreed to build the home, the list of HOA rules (that she was given) did not prohibit the trailer. does she still have them? |
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Post by librarylady on Mar 26, 2016 20:47:39 GMT
When she agreed to build the home, the list of HOA rules (that she was given) did not prohibit the trailer. does she still have them? I am sure she does, since this all happened less than a year ago....and she knows to keep documents. |
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Post by mom on Mar 26, 2016 20:50:38 GMT
In my neighborhood, it would be HOA that gets final word. Once the builder finishes the home and the sale is complete, he has no say in it. If the builder is willing to build an 10 ft fence for free, I am guessing he knows he screwed up.
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Post by hop2 on Mar 26, 2016 21:05:40 GMT
In my neighborhood, it would be HOA that gets final word. Once the builder finishes the home and the sale is complete, he has no say in it. If the builder is willing to build an 10 ft fence for free, I am guessing he knows he screwed up. I'd be shocked if a 10' fence was allowed in the zoning laws if the town. They aren't here. And obviously the builder doesn't believe in checking |
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Post by annabella on Mar 26, 2016 21:18:30 GMT
I would hire a lawyer. She should get $5000 plus expenses for hassle of moving, stress, etc.
Does she want a fence?
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Post by mom on Mar 26, 2016 21:21:38 GMT
In my neighborhood, it would be HOA that gets final word. Once the builder finishes the home and the sale is complete, he has no say in it. If the builder is willing to build an 10 ft fence for free, I am guessing he knows he screwed up. I'd be shocked if a 10' fence was allowed in the zoning laws if the town. They aren't here. And obviously the builder doesn't believe in checking 8' is the tallest allowed in my neighborhood. |
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Post by mom on Mar 26, 2016 21:23:28 GMT
I would hire a lawyer. She should get $5000 plus expenses for hassle of moving, stress, etc. Does she want a fence? I wonder, though, if the builder is legally liable? Wouldn't it be up to the homeowner to check these things before buying? My guess is is that the HOA will grandfather her in -- and her neighbor's will be upset about it. |
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Post by librarylady on Mar 26, 2016 21:42:55 GMT
I would hire a lawyer. She should get $5000 plus expenses for hassle of moving, stress, etc. Does she want a fence? I wonder, though, if the builder is legally liable? Wouldn't it be up to the homeowner to check these things before buying? My guess is is that the HOA will grandfather her in -- and her neighbor's will be upset about it. She DID check these things before buying the home. That is why she got a copy of the rules, had it in writing about the parking pad etc. Fence: all the home in the neighborhood have a privacy fence. Hers is an 8 ft. fence. I think it is part of the things the builder does for the homeowners. |
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Deleted
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Apr 30, 2024 5:03:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 21:50:32 GMT
It's all about the timing of when the letters were written versus the covenants AND how many votes the builder holds versus the residents.
However, if I were a neighbor who had to live next to a huge RV in a newly built home, I would not be a happy camper. I buy into an HOA neighborhood to keep those types of storage situations away from my home.
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Post by mom on Mar 26, 2016 21:52:10 GMT
Wondering how you think this will play out. It involves my friend, not me. Friend is D D is retired and owns a vacation trailer--about 21 ft. long. She wanted to move out of the city now that she is retired. She looked and found a new housing area. She spoke with the builder. He told her that her trailer would be allowed. She paid $5,000 to have a concrete pad placed in the side yard for the trailer, as well as having an electrical outlet on the outside near the trailer. She has it in writing (in her papers to build the home) that parking the trailer would be allowed. She specifically asked about all these things when she searched for her new home. Builder helped her select a lot that would make the trailer less visible from the street. Her neighborhood is small. One long U shaped street and a small cross street that connects the 2 sides of the U. The day she moved the trailer into the parking area--a man rushed up, got out of his car--never introduced himself, just began talking in a hostile manner and told her "You can't park that here. It is not allowed." She did not get into a real discussion with him, just rather dismissed him with, "I have permission." Man kept blustering--she finally told him, "Do you know xyz?" He said yes (that is the builder). She told him that xyz gave her permission. She told me she was just matter of fact and didn't engage in argument with the man. In the discussion the man said he was president of the HOA. About a month has passed. D has not yet slept in the home. She is moving into it slowly. She had some day surgery and is not in a rush to move in. Last weekend she took the trailer out on a camping trip. When she got home (to the new home), she had a certified letter from the HOA saying that the trailer was not allowed and she would be fined $1,000 per day for each day it is in the yard. Apparently HOA knows she has written permission as the HOA offered her $3,000 to move it. (Her comment: I paid $5,000 to park it, why would I take $3,000 - plus a monthly storage fee to park it elsewhere?) Her brother called the builder. D was in day surgery that day. Builder told her brother not to worry. Builder also said he would go back and give D a fence that is 10 ft. tall in hopes of placating the HOA. D says she will fight them on this since she did her homework prior to purchasing the home. All this has put a damper on her enthusiasm for her new home. She worries about hostile neighbors when she is totally moved in. So--guessing game for the peas.......... Do you think a judge/jury would back the HOA or D? Per your first paragraph, I would not consider getting permission from the builder to be sufficient. In fact, it would not even dawn on me that the builder had any control in this situation. That can only come from the HOA and their bylaws and covenants. |
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Post by mom on Mar 26, 2016 21:52:51 GMT
It's all about the timing of when the letters were written versus the covenants AND how many votes the builder holds versus the residents. However, if I were a neighbor who had to live next to a huge RV in a newly built home, I would not be a happy camper. I buy into an HOA neighborhood to keep those types of storage situations away from my home. This. 1000x. And a 10 foot fence is not what I want next door either. |
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Post by Merge on Mar 26, 2016 21:59:18 GMT
Why has your friend chosen not to participate in HOA meetings? HOAs can and do disallow things that were previously allowed, through a vote of the membership, and are under no obligation to "grandfather" anyone in. Sometimes people who choose not to be active in their HOA are unaware of what is happening.
In our old neighborhood, which had a long common street from which all the other streets branched off, there was an issue with the HOA not liking that people down the common street had stained their fences different colors (or left them unstained), because it was felt that the mismatched look was ugly. This resulted in the HOA adding a rule that all fences facing the street or common area had to be stained a certain color, and if you had previously stained your fence a different color, that was too bad. You had to strip your fence and re-stain it. The rule was passed by the board and a majority of homeowners present ... and then those who weren't present threw an absolute fit.
Personally, I would not have built in an HOA community if I knew I wanted to park my giant travel trailer by the side of the house. Around here, that tends to be something that HOAs hate, so I would assume it would cause problems down the road.
I know that many peas feel strongly that HOAs are evil and property rights should be absolute, and they have a right to their opinion - but personally, I think your friend made a mistake buying in an HOA neighborhood and taking the builder's word that her exemption was OK rather than checking with the HOA board itself. My guess is that even if the covenants don't yet say anything about parking recreational vehicles, they do have something about requiring board permission for add-ons and renovations (like the concrete pad) that are visible from the street. It would be typical for an HOA to require board approval for something like that. The builder wants to sell houses, period, and doesn't care if the $5000 variance you paid for causes you or your neighbors problems down the road. The HOA has an interest in protecting the values of the homes long-term.
How this all shakes out will depend a lot on how much power your state gives HOAs, but I suspect that if your friend lived in Texas, she would lose her case based on what you've said here.
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Post by librarylady on Mar 26, 2016 22:06:35 GMT
She has not moved in yet and that is why she has not attended a meeting.
To quote her: I know the RV is ugly, that is why I wanted to get it all cleared before I purchased in a neighborhood.
Interesting thing--one neighbor has told her what was said at meetings and said her 2 closest neighbors have not complained.
Well, just wondered what the peas thought.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968 
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Post by AnotherPea on Mar 26, 2016 23:13:35 GMT
I used to work for an HOA management company as a temp many moons ago. We saw all kinds of situations. Many times people were grandfathered in and sometimes they weren't.
I hate HOAs and have refused to live in an HOA neighborhood. My neighbors, some, apparently thought they could change our neighborhood into one by majority vote. @@. You can't.
Something similar happened to a coworker but his neighborhood was far more froo-froo than mine. They worked long and hard to run him off. He ended up being one of a handful of non-HOA homeowners in the middle of an HOA neighborhood.
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Post by myshelly on Mar 26, 2016 23:13:43 GMT
She has not moved in yet and that is why she has not attended a meeting. To quote her: I know the RV is ugly, that is why I wanted to get it all cleared before I purchased in a neighborhood. Interesting thing--one neighbor has told her what was said at meetings and said her 2 closest neighbors have not complained. Well, just wondered what the peas thought. I think this is one reason why I will never buy in an HOA. Even if she had permission from the builder, the HOA can follow the procedure to change the rules, disallow RVs, and are under no obligation to grandfather her in. She has no protection. The builder doesn't care about anything except making sales. |
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my3freaks
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,206
Location: NH girl living in Colorado
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Post by my3freaks on Mar 26, 2016 23:19:25 GMT
I'm confused about the letter granting permission, and then demanding removal of trailer being signed by the same person. I don't know what is legally allowed, but I can't wait to hear how this all plays out.
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my3freaks
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,206
Location: NH girl living in Colorado
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Post by my3freaks on Mar 26, 2016 23:30:12 GMT
Our entire town is controlled by an HOA. I hate them. I knew nothing about HOA's when we moved to Colorado, had never even head of them. I can't wait to live somewhere that doesn't have one. They are busy-body heaven IMO.
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Post by *KAS* on Mar 26, 2016 23:32:40 GMT
I used to be on our HOA board. We have very strict leasing rules. However, there were some owners who purchased (at new construction from the builder) that their contract specifically says they are buying it as a rental unit. Per our attorney, if they provide proof that they had permission to rent when they purchased, we have to honor it.
So if it's truly in her contract, the HOA would likely have to excuse it. If it just says she has a concrete pad, and doesn't give permission for the trailer, she's probably SOL. at least in my experience.
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Post by Sharon on Mar 26, 2016 23:42:53 GMT
This is exactly why I hate HOAs. We used to live in one that was required. Several of the neighbors got together and decided we should pay for the fence that faced the road. Of course, the homeowners along the road thought that was great.....even though we had to pay for our own fence. I couldn't wait to get out of the neighborhood even though I loved our custom built house. When we bought here, we made sure there wasn't a required HOA. We refuse to join the voluntary one in our neighborhood.
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eleezybeth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,784
Jun 28, 2014 20:42:01 GMT
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Post by eleezybeth on Mar 26, 2016 23:47:47 GMT
Before we bought our house, we had a copy of the covenants of the HOA even though the HOA hadn't been turned over yet. I'm really not sure how that works but we knew going in what could and couldn't be done. Does she have something similar? If IRC we even had to sign it at closing.
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Post by scrapsotime on Mar 27, 2016 0:00:05 GMT
I used to work for an HOA management company as a temp many moons ago. We saw all kinds of situations. Many times people were grandfathered in and sometimes they weren't. I hate HOAs and have refused to live in an HOA neighborhood. My neighbors, some, apparently thought they could change our neighborhood into one by majority vote. @@. You can't. Something similar happened to a coworker but his neighborhood was far more froo-froo than mine. They worked long and hard to run him off. He ended up being one of a handful of non-HOA homeowners in the middle of an HOA neighborhood. Wait, they can turn a non HOA neighborhood into an HOA one? How does that happen? |
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