|
Post by claudia123 on Apr 8, 2016 21:35:33 GMT
Is anyone else not particularly bothered by "incorrect" grammar especially in informal settings eg Facebook?
After all English is a living language and the rules if languages change constantly, the way we write now may not have been considered 100 or more years ago.
The meaning of the message is almost always clear and isn't conveying meaning the sole purpose of language? Not adhering to arbitrary rules decided on a long time ago that people now judge people on, eg calling them uneducated or stupid.
The evolution of language happens whether we like it or so surely we should embrace it and what it brings. For example many wonderful poems are written with grammar that would not be considered perfect.
|
|
|
Post by HelenaJole on Apr 8, 2016 21:56:19 GMT
Personally, well, yes and no. I absolutely don't feel the need to avoid splitting infinitives or ending a sentence with a preposition. But a lot of things do make me cringe.
|
|
|
Post by anniefb on Apr 8, 2016 22:14:41 GMT
Personally, well, yes and no. I absolutely don't feel the need to avoid splitting infinitives or ending a sentence with a preposition. But a lot of things do make me cringe. Loads of thing make me cringe - 'yous', incorrect use of possessive apostrophe to denote plural, use of their/there interchangeably....
|
|
|
Post by lucyg on Apr 8, 2016 22:27:40 GMT
It is the job of the language traditionalists to fight change like the dickens. That makes adaptation slow and difficult, and only the best ones get through.
I accept and embrace that the language changes over time. That doesn't mean I embrace uneducated grammar, clueless pronunciation, creative spelling, or wildly-misused words. If it makes you sound utterly unschooled, it isn't going to get you very far in this life.
|
|
|
Post by joblackford on Apr 8, 2016 22:40:12 GMT
Some stuff really irks me - there/their somewhat, there/they're much more so. Your/you're also. I think they're jarring, but also, that apostrophe really means something! I dislike mistakes like using "do" when "due" is correct, partly because I grew up in a place where no one would ever make that mistake because of pronunciation. Also "much adieu" for "much ado"! I am sometimes inclined to shake my head and wish people would pick up a book every once in a while... Yes, I'm far more forgiving in informal situations, as long as the meaning is actually clear. I do see some writing on Tumblr that completely lacks punctuation and is practically unreadable. But I have given up on "chaise lounge" (instead of longue) because that's a really good example of bending a foreign word to make sense in our language by finding a way for it to make sense without knowing the foreign language. It's so widespread now that it has become English. Same with the English pronunciations of foreign words like karaoke (karyokey) and ukulele (youkaleylee). I LOVE the English language and its crazy journey (The Mother Tongue is the best book!) and I love seeing the ways things change and morph. I think English NEEDS "yous" even though I don't love hearing it. I love that infrequently used irregular verbs will regularize over time (because we just can't remember the correct past tense of a verb we hardly ever use, so we assume it must be regular) but we will never lose the irregularity of the verb to be because we use it so often and so unconsciously that we don't even notice its irregularity. I ADORE the way children pick up and bastardize our language by following rules that make sense, but aren't correct English. I'm fascinated by the evolution of words like idiot, cretin, moron, retarded - all words that had medical tones at first, but became insults over time because of the way we feel about people with low intelligence. (Just watch - I think special and challenged will become insults). I'm excited to see how English continues to change over my lifetime as more people from around the world bend and shape it to suit their needs. I think this kind of complaint about language mirrors the "technology is the death of civilization" thing... like people haven't been complaining about this stuff forever! Socrates felt that writing things down was going to destroy the minds and memory abilities of ancient scholars.... SOrry, I guess I care about this stuff more than I thought! You probably weren't expecting a huge long rant in reply...
|
|
|
Post by anxiousmom on Apr 8, 2016 22:41:52 GMT
Informal is fine-in an informal setting. But you (the global you) should know all the rules governing proper grammar (et. al.) and when to use them. Intentional misuse in art (poetry) is an entirely different ball game than Facebook or a message board. Sure language evolves, but it hasn't devolved into grammatical anarchy.
Personally, I don't think it takes that much longer to at least make a valiant effort at doing things right.
|
|
|
Post by lucyg on Apr 8, 2016 22:56:30 GMT
Some stuff really irks me - there/their somewhat, there/they're much more so. Your/you're also. I think they're jarring, but also, that apostrophe really means something! I dislike mistakes like using "do" when "due" is correct, partly because I grew up in a place where no one would ever make that mistake because of pronunciation. Also "much adieu" for "much ado"! I am sometimes inclined to shake my head and wish people would pick up a book every once in a while... Yes, I'm far more forgiving in informal situations, as long as the meaning is actually clear. I do see some writing on Tumblr that completely lacks punctuation and is practically unreadable. But I have given up on "chaise lounge" (instead of longue) because that's a really good example of bending a foreign word to make sense in our language by finding a way for it to make sense without knowing the foreign language. It's so widespread now that it has become English. Same with the English pronunciations of foreign words like karaoke (karyokey) and ukulele (youkaleylee). I LOVE the English language and its crazy journey (The Mother Tongue is the best book!) and I love seeing the ways things change and morph. I think English NEEDS "yous" even though I don't love hearing it. I love that infrequently used irregular verbs will regularize over time (because we just can't remember the correct past tense of a verb we hardly ever use, so we assume it must be regular) but we will never lose the irregularity of the verb to be because we use it so often and so unconsciously that we don't even notice its irregularity. I ADORE the way children pick up and bastardize our language by following rules that make sense, but aren't correct English. I'm fascinated by the evolution of words like idiot, cretin, moron, retarded - all words that had medical tones at first, but became insults over time because of the way we feel about people with low intelligence. (Just watch - I think special and challenged will become insults). I'm excited to see how English continues to change over my lifetime as more people from around the world bend and shape it to suit their needs. I think this kind of complaint about language mirrors the "technology is the death of civilization" thing... like people haven't been complaining about this stuff forever! Socrates felt that writing things down was going to destroy the minds and memory abilities of ancient scholars.... SOrry, I guess I care about this stuff more than I thought! You probably weren't expecting a huge long rant in reply... I think I love you. But I will never give up on chaise longue.
|
|
|
Post by claudia123 on Apr 8, 2016 22:57:32 GMT
Informal is fine-in an informal setting. But you (the global you) should know all the rules governing proper grammar (et. al.) and when to use them. Intentional misuse in art (poetry) is an entirely different ball game than Facebook or a message board. Sure language evolves, but it hasn't devolved into grammatical anarchy. But here you just showed how English has evolved so that something that was once grammatical anarachy is now the most accepted version of English. Before it would never have been necessary to indicate the global you as you was only every used in this context and thou used to indicate the second person singular pronoun. However now using thou seems stuffy and old fashioned.
|
|
|
Post by joblackford on Apr 8, 2016 23:01:23 GMT
I'm looking back on my post now and hoping y'all aren't judging me for my less-than-perfect grammar and writing...
|
|
|
Post by anxiousmom on Apr 8, 2016 23:05:11 GMT
Informal is fine-in an informal setting. But you (the global you) should know all the rules governing proper grammar (et. al.) and when to use them. Intentional misuse in art (poetry) is an entirely different ball game than Facebook or a message board. Sure language evolves, but it hasn't devolved into grammatical anarchy. But here you just showed how English has evolved so that something that was once grammatical anarachy is now the most accepted version of English. Before it would never have been necessary to indicate the global you as you was only every used in this context and thou used to indicate the second person singular pronoun. However now using thou seems stuffy and old fashioned. Perhaps, but in this case the usage of the 'global you' was simply because I didn't want to seem as though I was specifically singling you out. I could have said y'all, which is a whole other regional evolution of language that I use with great frequency. But again, in the interest of specificity, I went with the global you. I don't have a whole lot of problems with more casual language usage-I live with teenagers after all. But I do think that there has always been casual conversational language usage and more formal language usage. I just don't think that we should look at the casual way people seem to be trending as the standard.
|
|
|
Post by AussieMeg on Apr 8, 2016 23:05:41 GMT
But I have given up on "chaise lounge" (instead of longue) But I will never give up on chaise longue. Dufuq?!?! Never knew the correct word was "longue". Mind. Blown.
|
|
|
Post by joblackford on Apr 8, 2016 23:11:25 GMT
But I have given up on "chaise lounge" (instead of longue) But I will never give up on chaise longue. Dufuq?!?! Never knew the correct word was "longue". Mind. Blown. Yup. Most people have never heard it pronounced properly or noticed the spelling, but it was a long chair, not a lounge chair...
|
|
|
Post by Really Red on Apr 8, 2016 23:15:24 GMT
Mistakes don't bother me - and I am a technical writer - until they're repeated. Everyone can have a typo!
|
|
|
Post by nepean on Apr 8, 2016 23:21:59 GMT
It depends. If it is an outright wrong word for the sentence than yes it bugs me, or when things are pluralized that should not be. A friend of a friend on facebook consistently writes "of cause that was the right answer" instead of "of course" She just graduated high school and should know better. I hate to think about her prospects in the job market, when she can't differentiate simple homonyms. Things like that set applicants apart. Count me as another that did not know the correct spelling for chaise longue. I have always spelled it chaise lounge.
|
|
kate
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,516
Location: The city that doesn't sleep
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
|
Post by kate on Apr 9, 2016 2:48:34 GMT
I think it's fascinating! I'm all for the return of they/their as gender-neutral singular forms. Xe/xir - *cringe* I believe grammar and spelling help clarify communication. "Free rein" (correct) has a slightly different flavor than "free reign" (incorrect) has; it's one of those situations like joblackford named, where people put in a word that sounds right and makes some sense. I will always laugh at Americans who write, "Walla!" when they mean, "Voilà!" I wonder when Walla will become an actual idiom and not just half of the name of a Washington city...
|
|
|
Post by Eddie-n-Harley on Apr 9, 2016 2:58:45 GMT
I will always laugh at Americans who write, "Walla!" when they mean, "Voilà!" I wonder when Walla will become an actual idiom and not just half of the name of a Washington city... Or viola, which is either a flower or a musical instrument. I will always be bothered by it's when it should be its. Especially if you are the face of your business and consistently use the wrong word, despite people telling you of the repeated error.
|
|
scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
|
Post by scrapaddie on Apr 9, 2016 3:21:26 GMT
Is anyone else not particularly bothered by "incorrect" grammar especially in informal settings eg Facebook? After all English is a living language and the rules if languages change constantly, the way we write now may not have been considered 100 or more years ago. The meaning of the message is almost always clear and isn't conveying meaning the sole purpose of language? Not adhering to arbitrary rules decided on a long time ago that people now judge people on, eg calling them uneducated or stupid. The evolution of language happens whether we like it or so surely we should embrace it and what it brings. For example many wonderful poems are written with grammar that would not be considered perfect. Language not only communicates the intended message, but it also communicates a more subtle message about the writer. When someone's writes something like 'he don't ', I form a picture of the speaker and it is unflattering... Call me judgey... But that is the way I react
|
|
scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
|
Post by scrapaddie on Apr 9, 2016 3:23:01 GMT
I think it's fascinating! I'm all for the return of they/their as gender-neutral singular forms. Xe/xir - *cringe* I believe grammar and spelling help clarify communication. "Free rein" (correct) has a slightly different flavor than "free reign" (incorrect) has; it's one of those situations like joblackford named, where people put in a word that sounds right and makes some sense. I will always laugh at Americans who write, "Walla!" when they mean, "Voilà!" I wonder when Walla will become an actual idiom and not just half of the name of a Washington city... I have never seen this!
|
|
sharongee
Shy Member
Posts: 20
Apr 9, 2016 3:38:30 GMT
|
Post by sharongee on Apr 9, 2016 4:31:37 GMT
There's evolution of language, and there's laziness. I'm a speech language pathologist who travels to different schools. One private school has a sign in book with a page for "Tutor's and Therapist's." Really? At a school?
|
|
|
Post by AussieMeg on Apr 9, 2016 4:37:36 GMT
There's evolution of language, and there's laziness. I'm a speech language pathologist who travels to different schools. One private school has a sign in book with a page for "Tutor's and Therapist's." Really? At a school? Ugh, I think I would have to say something!! ETA: Oh, and welcome to the new Pod!!
|
|
|
Post by joblackford on Apr 9, 2016 4:40:59 GMT
And without further adieu - Wallah!!
|
|
|
Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 9, 2016 4:42:33 GMT
I think it's fascinating! I'm all for the return of they/their as gender-neutral singular forms. Xe/xir - *cringe* I believe grammar and spelling help clarify communication. "Free rein" (correct) has a slightly different flavor than "free reign" (incorrect) has; it's one of those situations like joblackford named, where people put in a word that sounds right and makes some sense. I will always laugh at Americans who write, "Walla!" when they mean, "Voilà!" I wonder when Walla will become an actual idiom and not just half of the name of a Washington city...How about the people who write "woah" when they mean whoa? I think I read somewhere that this mistake happens so frequently now that the misspelling may become a mainstream variation. I hope not.
|
|
|
Post by marykate on Apr 9, 2016 6:13:25 GMT
I'm fine with shortcuts, acronyms, and abbreviations when it comes to social media. Because these are the new usages and conventions, and so on and so forth.
But I have to admit, I'm a bit of a grammar and word use stickler in general. Please, please, please, people, don't ever say "based off of" when you mean "based on." Why use two awkwardly-placed prepositions ("off of") when you can use only one ("on")? Sometimes less is more, if you know what I mean?
Don't even get me started on "reign in" (it's "rein in," for the love of all that is good and holy).
|
|
anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,394
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
|
Post by anniebygaslight on Apr 9, 2016 7:13:45 GMT
Personally, well, yes and no. I absolutely don't feel the need to avoid splitting infinitives or ending a sentence with a preposition. But a lot of things do make me cringe. Loads of thing make me cringe - 'yous', incorrect use of possessive apostrophe to denote plural, use of their/there interchangeably.... re the above insert, in the deepest parts of South Yorkshire they still use thee and thou, but is pronounced more like dee and daa. Not surprisingly, they are known as dee-daas.
|
|
|
Post by AussieMeg on Apr 9, 2016 7:37:58 GMT
Please, please, please, people, don't ever say "based off of" when you mean "based on." Why use two awkwardly-placed prepositions ("off of") when you can use only one ("on")? Sometimes less is more, if you know what I mean? Why do Americans say "off of" anyway? As far as I can tell, no other country says it. eg. "I jumped off of the bed" or "You turn off of the main road." Surely "of" is redundant? It sounds so awkward to me. I read it here and hear it on TV all the time, but I have never ever seen it written in a book. I guess editors, even American ones, don't like it either! Now, having said that..... Americans probably think it's strange that we say "a couple of years" instead of "a couple years".
|
|
gsquaredmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
|
Post by gsquaredmom on Apr 9, 2016 14:08:12 GMT
Dufuq?!?! Never knew the correct word was "longue". Mind. Blown. Yup. Most people have never heard it pronounced properly or noticed the spelling, but it was a long chair, not a lounge chair... I always knew lounge but always wondered where it came from. Never made sense to me. Thanks for the lesson. Learn something new here every day!
|
|
|
Post by originalvanillabean on Apr 9, 2016 14:24:13 GMT
Personally, I don't think it takes that much longer to at least make a valiant effort at doing things right. But...having said that, I can admit to being lazy sometimes and not bothering to do it right.
|
|
|
Post by gar on Apr 9, 2016 14:29:19 GMT
Please, please, please, people, don't ever say "based off of" when you mean "based on." Why use two awkwardly-placed prepositions ("off of") when you can use only one ("on")? Sometimes less is more, if you know what I mean? Why do Americans say "off of" anyway? As far as I can tell, no other country says it. eg. "I jumped off of the bed" or "You turn off of the main road." Surely "of" is redundant? It sounds so awkward to me. I read it here and hear it on TV all the time, but I have never ever seen it written in a book. I guess editors, even American ones, don't like it either! Now, having said that..... Americans probably think it's strange that we say "a couple of years" instead of "a couple years". I'm pretty sure I have come across this in the UK too. Of off when just off will normally do.
|
|
|
Post by maryland on Apr 9, 2016 17:02:10 GMT
I am embarrassed to ask, but I see this a lot on the boards and I have to ask. "Meh" - I have never heard anyone use that word, and have no idea how to pronounce it (or what it means).
|
|
|
Post by maryland on Apr 9, 2016 17:06:22 GMT
Please, please, please, people, don't ever say "based off of" when you mean "based on." Why use two awkwardly-placed prepositions ("off of") when you can use only one ("on")? Sometimes less is more, if you know what I mean? Why do Americans say "off of" anyway? As far as I can tell, no other country says it. eg. "I jumped off of the bed" or "You turn off of the main road." Surely "of" is redundant? It sounds so awkward to me. I read it here and hear it on TV all the time, but I have never ever seen it written in a book. I guess editors, even American ones, don't like it either! Now, having said that..... Americans probably think it's strange that we say "a couple of years" instead of "a couple years". I am American and I also say "a couple of years". I think I say "off" and not "off of". I want to get my kids to say something to see which way they speak. Now I have to come up with a question to ask them to see how they phrase it.
|
|