Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 13:18:08 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 20:23:04 GMT
I am an ENTJ and I get what you are saying. I often get told by others that I am intimidating to them (usually through a 3rd person-- since I am so intimidating that they feel they can't be directly honest). What's so weird is that I would absolutely LOVE someone honest enough to say that to me directly. (Iron sharpens iron) Anywhere from my kids' youth pastor to someone I am "above" at work (not really a boss directly but have a huge amount of leeway/pull and could get someone terminated if I pushed). I think it is worse because I am also an extrovert. Only 2% of women are ENTJs (not sure the % for INTJs -- looked it up and it says 1%)....and it's especially hard being an INTJ/ENTJ in the Christian church where women aren't expected to show some of those personality traits and often aren't well used. Be happy that your church is allowing you to use your personality/potential to the highest, rather than telling you to "sit down and be quiet". (yep, left that church) So I get why you wrote it the way you did -- more to explain how others can see you than the fact that you want them to see you that way.
I really try to find friends where we aren't in competiton (not at work, different job skills, different ages, have kids older/younger, approximately the same socio-economic level and compatible faiths etc). I am so not medically minded but have found some of my bestest friends to be nurses.
I have just had a very hard work day because two of those who work at one of our businesses have decided I don't communicate with them the "right" way (which is soft, with absolutely no pressure, telling them that they can do whatever they want and don't really have to do any work). I ask a question, they answer (with a wrong answer) and then it is my fault that I continue to question the issue. So while an ENTJ, somewhere inside there is a very soft spot that can be bruised by others just ask easily. So soft hugs.....
I tried to private message you, but it threw an error. If you want a friend, I'd be more than happy to make a new one.....
|
|
scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
|
Post by scrapaddie on Apr 11, 2016 20:44:34 GMT
Every time I have taken the Meyers Briggs , I have had different results... Depends on my mood at the time..... So much for that..
So, if they were friends but now are not, you need to look honestly at yourself.... What might you have done? And it is just possible, the friendship has run its course.
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 11, 2016 21:21:44 GMT
This thread makes me sad and angry. A woman speaks with confidence about herself and her job and other women cut her down "how dare you speak confidently!" Pretend like the OP is a man and read it again. Standing O for freebird!!
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 11, 2016 21:52:26 GMT
I agree with this. The OP spoke like many successful business people that I have been around and worked with. Things is, she is talking about volunteer positions within a church, and a part time secretarial position within the same. Not in the business world. These positions she describes is one of servitude. It's not a "I am the boss" or "I am going to intimidate my friends" type of thing. My husband is the senior pastor and trust me he works for the church and doesn't even consider himself a boss. We don't have a secretary but if we did the secretary would work FOR the members of the church not a boss of anyone. I am the unofficial person the children's teachers come to for direction, new materials etc. I am not a boss but a fellow servant. If this was small business, an office etc I can see this attitude, one that is often needed to advance, but in a church? If anyone had the "I am boss" attitude they would probably lose their position pretty quickly. Whoever is great amongst us let him be a servant. Plus don't forget. She was perfectly OK with sitting and gossiping with these friends every week BEFORE she took this job and BEFORE she was the subject of the gossip. The bible warns folks about the dangers of this. I am just saying I am not willing to speak out in a negative way about these sister friends for acting no differently then what was acceptable not long ago by the OP. I think if the OP had been somewhat humble about her own part in this change of attitude and repentant about her own behaviors I would feel different. Seriously? Judging and preaching much?
|
|
|
Post by hop2 on Apr 11, 2016 21:56:05 GMT
After giving people multiple chances and they can not give anything into a relationship I move on. It's hard sometimes, but you can't always be the one reaching out/making efforts/ forgiving.
Also I don't dis my friends to people, even if they do things that I think are wrong I just keep that to myself. I don't know if I could trust a 'friend' who's lied about me multiple times. I'd probably have to walk away at least for a time. Trust is important to me.
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 11, 2016 22:05:09 GMT
I was witness to them tearing down their new SIL (who happens to be my DH's sister) with completely false garbage. I know that if they do that to her, they do it to me.
Sorry that got really long. Do any of you struggle with not knowing if your friendships are real? ========================= So, you let them berate their SIL, who happens to be your SIL? Did I read that correctly? What, if anything, did you do when this was happening? If you sat by and ignored it, or worse yet, took part in it, then you are no better than they are. But, to answer the original question, no, I don't question whether or not my friendships are real. You want to know why I know my friendships are real? Because we have been there for each other through good times and bad. We have a mutual respect for one another and don't think any of us are better than the other. We consider ourselves equals in life/work/friendship. Some of my friends are very successful business owners, some are stay at home moms, some are married for decades and some are divorced for just as long - but we all respect each other and don't think of ourselves as being "above" each other. Oh, and BTW, holding the position of church secretary and director of volunteer committees doesn't make you someone's "boss." She "let" them tear their SIL down?? Wow she must have done super magical powers to make them not do it! Since when is what they did or said reflective on the OP? By osmosis??? Way to blame her for the others actions. I find your comments rude and really unfounded. Also--YES you can be the head of a volunteer organization and a secretary at a church and be in a position of authority (or "boss"). I lead (was in charge, set schedules, directed others what they were to do, was the "boss" etc.) at our church for several positions.
|
|
scrapnnana
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,133
Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
|
Post by scrapnnana on Apr 11, 2016 22:30:08 GMT
I haven't read the entire thread, but here is my take:
They spread garbage about their new SIL, who also happens to be your SIL. They said rotten things about you, too, if I understand correctly. Both of those are reason to walk away from these gals. They are NOT your friends. They are toxic.
You owe them nothing, certainly not your friendship. Your SIL, however, at least deserves your loyalty IMO. She's family.
Whatever their reason for trashing both you and your DH's sister, they have shown they are NOT friends worth keeping.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 13:18:08 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 23:16:29 GMT
Sorry I couldn't come back sooner. But I have to admit, I was feeling mopey last night when I wrote this and did a terrible job of explaining. I actually wish I hadn't written it just because I sound like an arrogant idiot.
I wrote all the Braggish stuff to give you an idea of what has changed since our friendships began. I noticed some behaviour changes after I started volunteering and giving so much effort towards these projects. I would never ever walk around bragging about myself. If anything, I feel incredibly humbled and appreciated that our church members are vocal to myself AND my committee members. I sometimes wonder if our committee getting so much positive feedback is creating negative feelings from my friends for whatever reason.
Her disorder? I can't put my finger on it, sometimes I wonder if it's some sort of multiple personality disorder. Her sister has confided in me that it's a struggle sometimes knowing what's real and what's not with her. I'm not saying it to bash her, but it's why I try to make the friendship work. She's a great person, but this is an area where there's something.
When I said I've shared the occasional gossip with them. I don't mean we sit there like busy bodies getting all up in everyone's business. It's was meant to show that we're often like sisters, we can vent to each other about stuff that's bothering us. I did state that I decided to jump back in and volunteer instead of complaining about what wasn't being done in our church. I didn't defend my SIL, I changed the subject. Why? Because I can't change their hearts towards her, and I don't want to get involved. And FTR, they only started bashing the SIL after she got busy in the church. This is why I wonder if my involvement is part of their issue. My SIL is the sweetest person in the world and doesn't deserve the way they twist everything she does, but I don't feel good about getting in the middle of that so I try to change the topic.
As for the secretary job. You got me. That was stupid, it brought nothing to the story. But you know what! I'm so excited about the job and I hadn't shared it with anyone yet. I absolutely love what I do. I bragged about the good pay because wouldn't anyone brag about a good paying job? I've held off getting back into the work force because nothing seemed like a good fit, this opening came up and I knew it was something I wanted to apply for.
Being "boss" - I put it in quotations because it's laughable to say you're the boss in a volunteer position but it seemd a good descriptor for explaining why my friends might be intimidated, they see people coming to me for advice. All decisions are made by all of our committee members, but being chairperson comes with extra responsibilities. I'm the one our teachers come to if they have questions or concerns, and I'm the one that has to do the dirty work if there are issues to be dealt with. That's all.
As for me being arrogant, I don't think I am. I know where my strengths are, and I'm terribly aware of my weaknesses. I'm terribly insecure about relationships, it cripples me at times. Relationships are hard for me. But I don't know why I would need to dumb down my abilities, but if it makes you feel better, I don't go around telling the world about how great I am. Ever. I already explained why I did add it to my OP.
Why did I mention INTJ? Because for most of my adult life I couldn't figure out why I felt different. Why I always felt like I was outside a room looking in. Why I find men's conversations more stimulating then women's. It's was an eye opener when I took the test. It allowed me to figure out why I have the struggles I have, why I'm intimidating, and why relationships are hard. It helped me to improve as a person, and it continues to do so. I brought it up because it's often used to describe our traits and allows the person reading a little insight into where I'm coming from. that's all.
I have to run but I'll come back tonight to clarify more if needed. Thanks!
And I'm gratefull some of you got what I was trying to say despite my deplorable attempt at writing a horrible novel.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 13:18:08 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 23:33:19 GMT
This thread makes me sad and angry. A woman speaks with confidence about herself and her job and other women cut her down "how dare you speak confidently!" Pretend like the OP is a man and read it again. It is has nothing to do with her gender or her self-belief in her abilities to do good quality work - good for her. It's her magical thinking that she claims her friend has an undiagnosed disorder, that she sits around gossiping with friends and wonders why they do the same, that she assumes her friends are jealous of her 'prominent' position. I kind of gave up there. She said her friend supposedly ran her down yet she gave no analysis as to whether there was any truth in what was said. Or maybe that was the friend with the undiagnosed disorder so she automatically gets dismissed. Nothing to do with gender, nothing to do with confidence. Just being a bit of a dickhead like we all can be but she appears to wonder if her friendships are real rather than if she may just be a dickhead.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 13:18:08 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2016 0:11:00 GMT
When I first read your OP, I briefly wondered about what INJT meant. But basically, I felt like those "friends" weren't friends at all, never mind what your position in the church is. If you have to have work that hard to maintain your friendship with them, it isn't worth it. Friends can and do drift apart, but they don't talk about you in a negative way behind your back. All that other stuff you wrote...doesn't mean squat. If they were true friends, it wouldn't matter to them. They'd be happy for you, that you found your ideal job and are happy. Not cut you down. Nobody deserves that kind of treatment from their so-called friends.
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 12, 2016 0:20:49 GMT
This thread makes me sad and angry. A woman speaks with confidence about herself and her job and other women cut her down "how dare you speak confidently!" Pretend like the OP is a man and read it again. It is has nothing to do with her gender or her self-belief in her abilities to do good quality work - good for her. It's her magical thinking that she claims her friend has an undiagnosed disorder, that she sits around gossiping with friends and wonders why they do the same, that she assumes her friends are jealous of her 'prominent' position. I kind of gave up there. She said her friend supposedly ran her down yet she gave no analysis as to whether there was any truth in what was said. Or maybe that was the friend with the undiagnosed disorder so she automatically gets dismissed. Nothing to do with gender, nothing to do with confidence. Just being a bit of a dickhead like we all can be but she appears to wonder if her friendships are real rather than if she may just be a dickhead. ^^^proof that people don't read before they post.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 13:18:08 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2016 0:33:43 GMT
It is has nothing to do with her gender or her self-belief in her abilities to do good quality work - good for her. It's her magical thinking that she claims her friend has an undiagnosed disorder, that she sits around gossiping with friends and wonders why they do the same, that she assumes her friends are jealous of her 'prominent' position. I kind of gave up there. She said her friend supposedly ran her down yet she gave no analysis as to whether there was any truth in what was said. Or maybe that was the friend with the undiagnosed disorder so she automatically gets dismissed. Nothing to do with gender, nothing to do with confidence. Just being a bit of a dickhead like we all can be but she appears to wonder if her friendships are real rather than if she may just be a dickhead. ^^^proof that people don't read before they post. What didn't I read?
|
|
Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
|
Post by Country Ham on Apr 12, 2016 0:39:22 GMT
^^^proof that people don't read before they post. Actually the posted pretty much at the same time if you are referring to the OPs update. Which by BTW is partway down page 3. There is nothing in the title saying "update on page 3" etc. You are right that not everyone does read multiple pages of answers before replying.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 13:18:08 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2016 0:56:19 GMT
^^^proof that people don't read before they post. Actually the posted pretty much at the same time if you are referring to the OPs update. Which by BTW is partway down page 3. There is nothing in the title saying "update on page 3" etc. You are right that not everyone does read multiple pages of answers before replying. If that's what papercrafter means by me not reading maybe she didn't read I was responding to freebirds comments about gender/confidence, not OP's update. Having re-read OPs update twice now (because I'm wondering what I'm missing) she still seems to be part of the problem as we all are in our relationships.
|
|
|
Post by STBC on Apr 12, 2016 14:39:29 GMT
Being "boss" - I put it in quotations because it's laughable to say you're the boss in a volunteer position but it seemd a good descriptor for explaining why my friends might be intimidated, they see people coming to me for advice. All decisions are made by all of our committee members, but being chairperson comes with extra responsibilities. I'm the one our teachers come to if they have questions or concerns, and I'm the one that has to do the dirty work if there are issues to be dealt with. That's all. This would intimidate your friends? I don't think your "friends" are intimidated by you; I think your friends have an entirely different definition of your friendship than you do. Let the relationship go and find people who appreciate your friendship.
|
|
|
Post by gmcwife1 on Apr 12, 2016 16:29:35 GMT
Being "boss" - I put it in quotations because it's laughable to say you're the boss in a volunteer position but it seemd a good descriptor for explaining why my friends might be intimidated, they see people coming to me for advice. All decisions are made by all of our committee members, but being chairperson comes with extra responsibilities. I'm the one our teachers come to if they have questions or concerns, and I'm the one that has to do the dirty work if there are issues to be dealt with. That's all. This would intimidate your friends? I don't think your "friends" are intimidated by you; I think your friends have an entirely different definition of your friendship than you do. Let the relationship go and find people who appreciate your friendship. I agree. All the other stuff is just filler and really doesn't add anything to the question. Your position in the church and your volunteerism isn't intimidating but how you handle it might be off putting. If you enjoy being friends with people that you know enjoy gossiping about people you know and care about, then yes, stay friends. If you don't enjoy that then leave this little group and find friends that fit your personality better.
|
|