~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jun 16, 2016 18:59:31 GMT
In my opinion, if you are afraid to go to another country, then you don't go. Simple.
I am afraid to go to the Middle East at all. I would like to but I'm afraid, so I stay here or go somewhere I'm not afraid to go.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 4, 2024 19:14:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 19:01:31 GMT
Here are two articles on the price tag attacks and The Revolt New Yorker ArticleNYT articleThe point that I was trying to make with my post about Christian and Jewish terrorists is that there are many other terrorists-including lots of non-religious based terrorists- killing far too many people around the globe. It's way too easy to focus on our pundit-filled media reports that are picking and choosing what they're sensationalizing and even focusing on. I've been guilty of falling down this particular rabbit hole too, and I am making a conscious effort to remind myself and others that the terrorism problem is not limited to radical Muslims, and that there are many victims of terrorism worldwide that don't get the media frenzy treatment when they are killed.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jun 16, 2016 19:01:37 GMT
Ok, you're right. 30-35 years ago there were some terrorist activities by Jewish organizations. Do you have anything more recent than a generation ago?
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 16, 2016 19:06:44 GMT
The Bat Ayin Underground were another group of Jewish militants who weren't 'smart enough and capable enough to succeed'. If I remember correctly, their target was a bus full of school girls.
ETA* since it seems to matter - that was 2002
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 16, 2016 19:13:20 GMT
Ok, you're right. 30-35 years ago there were some terrorist activities by Jewish organizations. Do you have anything more recent than a generation ago? I'm sorry, were the Price Tag attacks not recent enough for you?
You asked us to 'tell me anyplace Jewish extremists have committed a mass murder of innocents'. Done, and done.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jun 16, 2016 19:14:32 GMT
OK, thanks for the info. And yes, the price-tag attacks were recent enough. Acts done 30 years ago if not repeated....as you said, done and done.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 16, 2016 19:15:55 GMT
OP, I'm curious about what your stance is on Morocco's laws on gays in Morocco.I guess I'm just having a hard time with you being worried about being here, when there's plenty of people in the world that are worried about being *there*.Disclaimer: I haven't read the entire thread. But, what does one have to do with the other? So what if "plenty of people" are worried about going to Morocco (or other countries in North Africa, or the Middle East, or Europe, or anywhere)... Even if none were worried that doesn't negate the way the OP feels about coming here. If she's worried, then she's worried. It isn't up the us to have a "hard time" about it. OP, I'd love to say "don't worry" but of course I can't say that, especially since you're coming with your kids. As a mother I know I'd worry less if I were by myself anywhere than if I was with my kids. I would say that you most likely wouldn't have problems if you're going to a large urban area like where I live (outside Washington, DC). We are so diverse here, and my area is so liberal, that I can't imagine there could be any trouble. Quite a few of us in my neighborhood have a car magnet that says "Deport Trump, keep the immigrants." hehe Our schools have Muslim children and teachers, including girls and women who wear a hijab. Several of our local churches, synagogues, and the Islamic Center are having an interfaith service tonight followed by an Iftar together. But I know this isn't all of the United States, and I would be concerned also if I was bringing my children. I know you weren't responding to me, but I think my issue is that I don't really think the OP is scared to visit the US. I responded to the initial post with sympathy and understanding, as I genuinely thought she was worried her children would be attacked on the streets of the US for being Muslim. As the thread has progressed, it's clear that the OP is angry at the rhetoric coming from Donald Trump. I don't have any issue with her anger - and she frankly would have received a ton of sympathy if she'd just said - hey here's what those words coming from the Republicans presumptive nominee sound to a peace loving Muslim. I think the idea that she can't reassure her son that he doesn't have to fear Donald Trump grabbing him off the street pretty disingenuous. And yes, as she lives in a country where visitors have to be extremely careful to not actually be jailed or attacked for being gay or being a single woman - which again makes the idea of fearing the US a little harder to swallow. I'm not going to claim that there's not some bigot in the US who will say something offensive to her or her children - just as I guarantee you she can't guarantee some Moroccan man isn't going to say something offense to a western woman visiting her country.
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,996
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Jun 16, 2016 19:22:29 GMT
Disclaimer: I haven't read the entire thread. But, what does one have to do with the other? So what if "plenty of people" are worried about going to Morocco (or other countries in North Africa, or the Middle East, or Europe, or anywhere)... Even if none were worried that doesn't negate the way the OP feels about coming here. If she's worried, then she's worried. It isn't up the us to have a "hard time" about it. OP, I'd love to say "don't worry" but of course I can't say that, especially since you're coming with your kids. As a mother I know I'd worry less if I were by myself anywhere than if I was with my kids. I would say that you most likely wouldn't have problems if you're going to a large urban area like where I live (outside Washington, DC). We are so diverse here, and my area is so liberal, that I can't imagine there could be any trouble. Quite a few of us in my neighborhood have a car magnet that says "Deport Trump, keep the immigrants." hehe Our schools have Muslim children and teachers, including girls and women who wear a hijab. Several of our local churches, synagogues, and the Islamic Center are having an interfaith service tonight followed by an Iftar together. But I know this isn't all of the United States, and I would be concerned also if I was bringing my children.
I know you weren't responding to me, but I think my issue is that I don't really think the OP is scared to visit the US. I responded to the initial post with sympathy and understanding, as I genuinely thought she was worried her children would be attacked on the streets of the US for being Muslim. As the thread has progressed, it's clear that the OP is angry at the rhetoric coming from Donald Trump. I don't have any issue with her anger - and she frankly would have received a ton of sympathy if she'd just said - hey here's what those words coming from the Republicans presumptive nominee sound to a peace loving Muslim.
I think the idea that she can't reassure her son that he doesn't have to fear Donald Trump grabbing him off the street pretty disingenuous. And yes, as she lives in a country where visitors have to be extremely careful to not actually be jailed or attacked for being gay or being a single woman - which again makes the idea of fearing the US a little harder to swallow. I'm not going to claim that there's not some bigot in the US who will say something offensive to her or her children - just as I guarantee you she can't guarantee some Moroccan man isn't going to say something offense to a western woman visiting her country. Bingo. She does this all the time over the years, and I for one am sick of it. She gets everyone all riled up, feeling badly and hand wringing and apologizing for all the U.S. wrong doings every damn time. Its so transparent.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 16, 2016 19:24:17 GMT
Disclaimer: I haven't read the entire thread. But, what does one have to do with the other? So what if "plenty of people" are worried about going to Morocco (or other countries in North Africa, or the Middle East, or Europe, or anywhere)... Even if none were worried that doesn't negate the way the OP feels about coming here. If she's worried, then she's worried. It isn't up the us to have a "hard time" about it. OP, I'd love to say "don't worry" but of course I can't say that, especially since you're coming with your kids. As a mother I know I'd worry less if I were by myself anywhere than if I was with my kids. I would say that you most likely wouldn't have problems if you're going to a large urban area like where I live (outside Washington, DC). We are so diverse here, and my area is so liberal, that I can't imagine there could be any trouble. Quite a few of us in my neighborhood have a car magnet that says "Deport Trump, keep the immigrants." hehe Our schools have Muslim children and teachers, including girls and women who wear a hijab. Several of our local churches, synagogues, and the Islamic Center are having an interfaith service tonight followed by an Iftar together. But I know this isn't all of the United States, and I would be concerned also if I was bringing my children. I know you weren't responding to me, but I think my issue is that I don't really think the OP is scared to visit the US. I responded to the initial post with sympathy and understanding, as I genuinely thought she was worried her children would be attacked on the streets of the US for being Muslim. As the thread has progressed, it's clear that the OP is angry at the rhetoric coming from Donald Trump. I don't have any issue with her anger - and she frankly would have received a ton of sympathy if she'd just said - hey here's what those words coming from the Republicans presumptive nominee sound to a peace loving Muslim. I think the idea that she can't reassure her son that he doesn't have to fear Donald Trump grabbing him off the street pretty disingenuous. And yes, as she lives in a country where visitors have to be extremely careful to not actually be jailed or attacked for being gay or being a single woman - which again makes the idea of fearing the US a little harder to swallow. I'm not going to claim that there's not some bigot in the US who will say something offensive to her or her children - just as I guarantee you she can't guarantee some Moroccan man isn't going to say something offense to a western woman visiting her country. That was the impression I came away with after her first response to me.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 16, 2016 19:26:49 GMT
OK, thanks for the info. And yes, the price-tag attacks were recent enough. Acts done 30 years ago if not repeated....as you said, done and done. Cool, can we move on to Buddhist terrorists? 'Cause we've got our share of those too.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 4, 2024 19:14:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 19:27:18 GMT
I know you weren't responding to me, but I think my issue is that I don't really think the OP is scared to visit the US. I responded to the initial post with sympathy and understanding, as I genuinely thought she was worried her children would be attacked on the streets of the US for being Muslim. As the thread has progressed, it's clear that the OP is angry at the rhetoric coming from Donald Trump. I don't have any issue with her anger - and she frankly would have received a ton of sympathy if she'd just said - hey here's what those words coming from the Republicans presumptive nominee sound to a peace loving Muslim.
I think the idea that she can't reassure her son that he doesn't have to fear Donald Trump grabbing him off the street pretty disingenuous. And yes, as she lives in a country where visitors have to be extremely careful to not actually be jailed or attacked for being gay or being a single woman - which again makes the idea of fearing the US a little harder to swallow. I'm not going to claim that there's not some bigot in the US who will say something offensive to her or her children - just as I guarantee you she can't guarantee some Moroccan man isn't going to say something offense to a western woman visiting her country. Bingo. She does this all the time over the years, and I for one am sick of it. She gets everyone all riled up, feeling badly and hand wringing and apologizing for all the U.S. wrong doings every damn time. Its so transparent. I really hope this isn't the case I do think it's got to be pretty awful to be on the receiving end of a lot of misdirected fear and anger, though.
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,996
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Jun 16, 2016 19:29:39 GMT
<deleting my comment because Lurking says it so much better than I do>
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Post by anxiousmom on Jun 16, 2016 19:35:41 GMT
The loudest voices are getting heard. But I would guess, even my slightly regressive, mostly southern town there would be little to no problems. We might be a bit behind the times, a tiny smidge ignorant about other cultures, but over all we are a pretty friendly bunch. Traditional garb may get you some sideways glances but it will down to 'foreignness' rather than 'Muslim.' Fearing for your safety wouldn't be something to even give a second thought to.
For all those loud voices, there are multitudes of quiet ones that don't agree. We are everywhere too.
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Post by lurkingsince2001 on Jun 16, 2016 19:41:01 GMT
It is NOT Moroccan media that we watch. It's all satellite here. We are watching American news programs and other international programs, so it really is a conglomerate of media. I completely understand how skewed media can be. US media only seems to want to show radical Islamist. I would love to see coverage of the Muslims in other parts of the world that DO speak out. I would love to see the coverage of the millions of Muslims living their day to day lives. My family and I had already experienced racially motivated bad behavior which was a contributing factor to us leaving the States. I have not been back for two years now so how am I to know that things have gotten better or worse. The biggest point I hoped to achieve with my post is to maybe help some understand there is a flipside to the comfortable path some are taking with their views. The biggest being that if you alienate the moderate Muslims who really are against the radical Islamist, I truly believe there is no way to fight them. And Muslims may be the "soup de jour", who is next? For those with the tone of "she's American, she's a veteran...she knew what she was getting into". Really? I can only imagine your views on gay rights or marrying unequally yoked. And now… a novel. I feel like the last bit was aimed at me so I'm going to wade back in. My point was that you are not an inexperienced foreigner coming here for the first time. You have walked the walk. We don't need to explain news cycles and propaganda and anti-Muslim sentiment to you because you've already been there done that. As for the knowing what you are getting into, in terms of side glances, difficult air travel, just all the general headache and fear that comes with being openly Muslim... I feel any reasonable person would acknowledge that such is possible. That doesn't make it right at all, but it only makes sense to know that not everyone is going to like you or what they think you represent in this country post 9/11 or given the current world political climate. I do not known if you were raised this way or married into it or whatever, but you've said you are choosing to raise your kids in your religion. Prepare them. Explain that there's history there on BOTH sides. As I already pointed out, you are not alone in your feeling victimized or fear for your family. Frankly, it's crazy here in a lot of places for many different reasons. I know mothers of teens of various shades that are terrified about police interaction or another Trayvon Martin case. I know people who have to now go to training on what to do in active shooter situations in their office. It's becoming the world we live in. As a white woman, there are many places in this country that I would not go and, as an American, there are many places in the world that I wouldn’t go. I can own and accept the reasons for that while making the best choices for my family. It’s unfortunate but it’s a fact. You say you've experienced racially motivated attacks to the point it was a deciding factor in moving to a supposed known terrorist area. So I ask again, why are you coming back? Pay for your family to visit you or Skype. Have a family get together in a country where you do feel safe. Is it really worth the stress and fear that you seem to feel? You seem determined that it's a bad idea, you'll be harassed at security, yelled at on the street, who knows. Those things are certainly possible. Nothing we say or do here will change that. Just decide if it's worth it or not. You might have a grand time with no issues at all. You say you've kept your citizenship so that gives you some protection. Some might scoff that it's not enough, but it's the only protection I've got when I go abroad so I'm hopeful it helps. As for Muslim's being the soup du jour, that's been the case for a long time now. Long past du jour. I think if there was going to be wholesale targeting it would've happened long ago. But since the attacks and war just keep happening it's always possible we'll go down that crazy road. No one is forcing these people to buy into the propaganda and go hurt others. They are choosing to do so for whatever reason. The reason I keep hearing is that they don't like Americans. Surely it's more complex than that. But if terrorists are willing to hide behind a certain religion to kill us, why wouldn't we start to look at it and all behind it askance? Like I said on another thread, it's natural to fear and react differently to something that's hurt you, whether it is a knife or man. You cut yourself, you're more careful next time. You get assaulted by a man, you're more hesitant in your interactions with a man. It's survival instinct. You don't then necessarily scrutinize, is this knife sharp enough to hurt me... you are just more careful around all knives. So until terrorists stop appearing to use their religion as a basis for their murdering innocents, some people are going to be leery of anyone who has something in common with them whether it be looks, name, religion. It's absolutely wrong to paint all Muslims with such a broad paint brush (any large group for that matter) but it's hard not to when no one is giving you a reason not to. I have sworn up and down that there must be peaceful, friendly Muslims who are a boon to their communities and society until I am blue in the face. I called my own mother racist once because she had predicted the then on-coming war. But I have no idea where any of them are anymore. I don't see them on the news making a difference, trying to stop the carnage, turning in their suspicious neighbor. And I suspect most of them are going underground, hunkering down in their communities, maybe even shaving beards, and changing their dress. They would not be the first to have such things happen to them historically either. It would be a shame to lose the "moderates" but I think most Americans aren't certain we have them in the first place. People who don't want to be disenfranchised need to stand up and fight for their place in society. America doesn't just give it to you, no matter what some may think. As for the comment regarding homosexuals or unequal marriage, what do you mean by that? There’s an insinuation there. And we both know you don’t really want to know how any of us feel about those things. First of all, you make assumptions about my own beliefs in making the equally yoked comment. I can’t speak for others on here, but I personally have no problem with it. My husband and I do not practice the same religion at all. But I believe that one’s beliefs are a personal and private thing between themselves and whatever they believe. You can judge me for being white, overweight, female, my socio-economic level, perhaps even my education, just by looking at me, but you’ll never guess what I believe. That goes for the implying I’m a homophobe as well. (And isn’t it a great debate tactic to imply that because a person disagrees with something you’ve said or done that they must disagree with everything else in the world and just generally be a “bad” person!) You don’t know where any of us fall on any sexuality spectrum. But it’s a nice re-direct to another hot button issue isn’t it? So let me be perfectly clear, since you “wonder.” I am a proponent of live and let live. To each his own as long as no one gets hurt and everyone consents. Whatever you decide to do, I hope it is safe and goes well. I hope you make lasting family memories that comfort you on long flights and through panicky news reports. And, as a citizen of this country, I hope you will be able to return one day, be responsible members of society, and live in no more fear than the rest of us do.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 16, 2016 19:49:34 GMT
I have sworn up and down that there must be peaceful, friendly Muslims who are a boon to their communities and society until I am blue in the face. I called my own mother racist once because she had predicted the then on-coming war. But I have no idea where any of them are anymore. I don't see them on the news making a difference, trying to stop the carnage, turning in their suspicious neighbor. And I suspect most of them are going underground, hunkering down in their communities, maybe even shaving beards, and changing their dress. They would not be the first to have such things happen to them historically either. It would be a shame to lose the "moderates" but I think most Americans aren't certain we have them in the first place. In all fairness, there are Muslims speaking out. It was a tip from the Muslim community that ultimately stopped the 2013 Via Rail plot. After Sunday's massacre, one of the people to speak at the first press conference was a local Imam.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 4, 2024 19:14:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 20:32:57 GMT
My OP was to express a real and genuine concern over the current climate in the States and not a let's bash Trump.
I was NOT the person that brought the topic of gays into this thread, Freecharlie did.
I was NOT the person that bought the topic of non-Muslim terrorist onto this thread, Lauren did.
I was responding to the person who said that it was my own fault for marrying a Muslim/Arab as to the unequally yoked comment. So if that was you Lurking, then there you go.
And Yvonne, as far as me being a shit stirrer and always doing that, I really find to be incredulous. There have been SOOOOOOOOOOO many topics on religion, homosexuals, politics...a buffet really, that I have read and passed on by. I could care less what someone's religion or sexual preference is.
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Jun 16, 2016 20:38:01 GMT
My OP was to express a real and genuine concern over the current climate in the States and not a let's bash Trump. I was NOT the person that brought the topic of gays into this thread, Freecharlie did. I was NOT the person that bought the topic of non-Muslim terrorist onto this thread, Lauren did. I was responding to the person who said that it was my own fault for marrying a Muslim/Arab as to the unequally yoked comment. So if that was you Lurking, then there you go. And Yvonne, as far as me being a shit stirrer and always doing that, I really find to be incredulous. There have been SOOOOOOOOOOO many topics on religion, homosexuals, politics...a buffet really, that I have read and passed on by. I could care less what someone's religion or sexual preference is. No. I did.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 4, 2024 19:14:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 20:42:21 GMT
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 4, 2024 19:14:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 20:43:15 GMT
My OP was to express a real and genuine concern over the current climate in the States and not a let's bash Trump. I was NOT the person that brought the topic of gays into this thread, Freecharlie did. I was NOT the person that bought the topic of non-Muslim terrorist onto this thread, Lauren did. I was responding to the person who said that it was my own fault for marrying a Muslim/Arab as to the unequally yoked comment. So if that was you Lurking, then there you go. And Yvonne, as far as me being a shit stirrer and always doing that, I really find to be incredulous. There have been SOOOOOOOOOOO many topics on religion, homosexuals, politics...a buffet really, that I have read and passed on by. I could care less what someone's religion or sexual preference is. No. I did. My apologies. I did not recall the name correctly.
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Post by carly on Jun 16, 2016 20:47:24 GMT
I have a niece who is scared to death of Muslims so I guess it goes both ways. I am sure more Muslims have killed people in the US than non Muslims have killed Muslims in the US, so you will probably be ok. I seriously don't think I've ever been speechless on this board before. I can't even. What leaves you speechless? I travel to the Middle East, Africa etc. all the time for work. I am required not to "look" American, there is a list of things I can and cannot wear. Guess what it's a job I choose to do. You want to talk about not feeling safe come travel to the countries I do, you will gladly come back to the good ole USA and proudly defend her.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 4, 2024 19:14:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 20:48:23 GMT
As have Christian and Jewish extremists. Point out to me any group of people that have been murdered in this country or in Europe, let alone mass murdered by Jewish extremists. They prefer to burn down Christian churches and commit arson killing an 18 month old baby and his parents asleep in their beds. Location is irrelevant to their cause. The world is made up of far more than the just US and Europe.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 4, 2024 19:14:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 23:59:13 GMT
I really hope this isn't the case I do think it's got to be pretty awful to be on the receiving end of a lot of misdirected fear and anger, though. I agree with Darcy and Yvonne. OP has a history of this even going back to the old boards. Wow, you guys' record keeping skills are way better than mine! Please refresh my memory of my prolific past. I have hardly even posted in the last three years.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jun 17, 2016 0:22:47 GMT
Disclaimer: I haven't read the entire thread. But, what does one have to do with the other? So what if "plenty of people" are worried about going to Morocco (or other countries in North Africa, or the Middle East, or Europe, or anywhere)... Even if none were worried that doesn't negate the way the OP feels about coming here. If she's worried, then she's worried. It isn't up the us to have a "hard time" about it. OP, I'd love to say "don't worry" but of course I can't say that, especially since you're coming with your kids. As a mother I know I'd worry less if I were by myself anywhere than if I was with my kids. I would say that you most likely wouldn't have problems if you're going to a large urban area like where I live (outside Washington, DC). We are so diverse here, and my area is so liberal, that I can't imagine there could be any trouble. Quite a few of us in my neighborhood have a car magnet that says "Deport Trump, keep the immigrants." hehe Our schools have Muslim children and teachers, including girls and women who wear a hijab. Several of our local churches, synagogues, and the Islamic Center are having an interfaith service tonight followed by an Iftar together. But I know this isn't all of the United States, and I would be concerned also if I was bringing my children. I know you weren't responding to me, but I think my issue is that I don't really think the OP is scared to visit the US. I responded to the initial post with sympathy and understanding, as I genuinely thought she was worried her children would be attacked on the streets of the US for being Muslim. As the thread has progressed, it's clear that the OP is angry at the rhetoric coming from Donald Trump. I don't have any issue with her anger - and she frankly would have received a ton of sympathy if she'd just said - hey here's what those words coming from the Republicans presumptive nominee sound to a peace loving Muslim. I think the idea that she can't reassure her son that he doesn't have to fear Donald Trump grabbing him off the street pretty disingenuous. And yes, as she lives in a country where visitors have to be extremely careful to not actually be jailed or attacked for being gay or being a single woman - which again makes the idea of fearing the US a little harder to swallow. I'm not going to claim that there's not some bigot in the US who will say something offensive to her or her children - just as I guarantee you she can't guarantee some Moroccan man isn't going to say something offense to a western woman visiting her country. This is what I've felt about her other posts myself.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 4, 2024 19:14:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2016 0:50:30 GMT
Since 2014, I have participated in 10 threads! That is quite a history.
Some of you continuely post that moderate Muslims don't speak out. Well, I have. I have 100% spoken out AGAINST radical Islam, again and again. But that does not seem to be enough. What is it that you are looking for?
I am a "shit-stirrer" because I have conflicting view? Why don't you just revoke my press badge then.
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