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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 22:47:06 GMT
I am to visit my family in a week in a half in the States and I am quite nervous about it. So much so that I convinced my husband not to come with us. I have read about several instances of people having Muslims/Arabs removed from flights because they thought the person was a threat simply for speaking Arabic. Even though we are American citizens, I am so frightened of the climate in America right now.
i have been telling my children not to speak Arabic on the plane or while we are visiting. I have told my son to not pray while we are there. He wanted to visit the mosque where we used to live but I have told him it is not a good idea right now.
My son happened to hear about Trump banning Muslims from America and he got really upset that we couldn't go back to see our family. How can I calm his fears when I don't know myself.
The reality is that this hatred and rhetoric is going to alienate not only the Muslims in America but those moderate Muslims abroad who are an integral part of helping to eradicate radical Islamist (which I have no problem calling them out).
Imagine having to hide who you are for fear you will be threatened or thrown off a plane or God knows what.
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Post by mom on Jun 14, 2016 22:53:53 GMT
I don't know what to say, other than I am sorry.
I dont have any answers for you than not everyone in the US sees all Muslims in the same category as radical Islamist. I would say most are able to see a person for their value and qualities and not just based on generalizations based on color, religion and whatnot.
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Dalai Mama
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 14, 2016 22:55:00 GMT
Do you still have a community in the US you can speak to about the climate in the area you plan on visiting? To be perfectly frank, I think you are being overly cautious but speaking to Muslims in the US may allay some of your son's anxiety.
I won't argue with you on the speaking Arabic on flight (or doing calculus) because people are idiots.
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Post by jackie on Jun 14, 2016 22:55:22 GMT
I was ready to open this thread and tell you there is no reason to be afraid. Then after I ready your post, I understand why and can't just brush your fears off. I do believe that you will be safe, but your fears have merit.
I am so very proud of my country and I've always been extremely patriotic. It's so disheartening to hear what was once the country that drew people to it and welcomed them is now a place to be feared. It makes me so sad.
I can't imagine having to hide who you are and what you believe. I don't know what else to say to you but I hope despite your fears you're able to enjoy your visit.
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Post by padresfan619 on Jun 14, 2016 22:57:22 GMT
My nephews are Muslim and it makes me sick that I am relieved they have "white" first names. So hopefully they won't be judged right off the bat. I have no answers for you, just want you to know there are many, many decent and tolerant people who want you to come back for a visit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 22:57:36 GMT
I'm so sorry. I completely understand your fears, and it's horrifying that things are at this point. The reality is that this hatred and rhetoric is going to alienate not only the Muslims in America but those moderate Muslims abroad who are an integral part of helping to eradicate radical Islamist (which I have no problem calling them out). ITA and I hope like hell that things get better quickly
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Post by Kelpea on Jun 14, 2016 23:03:31 GMT
Hey and welcome back. I've missed you for you and for the voice of common sense in the face of discrimination in the name of religion. I think you will be ok as long as your family agrees to the terms you've outlined here. And, for any naysayers? The shit just got real. My dear friend, who's your typical blonde blue eyed gal, has been married to a wonderful guy who happens to be from Turkey. They've been together 20 years with two kids. She just made him shave his beard and to speak only English in public due to the ignorance in this country. ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 23:05:01 GMT
Well Dalai, would you think I am being overly cautious when I tell you that my family I am going to visit, one of them is married to a spokesperson for Trump that is well known. We will definitely be in the lion's den, so to speak.
Our Muslim friends still living Stateside do not feel comfortable either. Many that I talk to are upset and angry. Angry that they are being portrayed as radicals AND they are angry that the dumbass radicals are doing the horrible things that they are. They feel helpless.
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scrapngranny
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Jun 25, 2014 23:21:30 GMT
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Post by scrapngranny on Jun 14, 2016 23:05:59 GMT
I'm so sorry that things have gotten so bad that you have to feel that way. We were a country that was formed by immigrants to give its citizens religious freedom, somewhere we have forgotten that.
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Post by epeanymous on Jun 14, 2016 23:13:32 GMT
I am really sorry.
I can't imagine being on the receiving end of the anti-Muslim rhetoric that has been flying now for years, and that has been intensifying in recent months.
I can tell you that my religious institution (which is Jewish) has been posting messages of love for the LGBT community and for our Muslim friends and communities, who we know are dealing with ignorance and intolerance. I can tell you that our local press has featured observant Muslims who have been praying for the victims and for peace. I really hope that the majority of Americans feel that way, and that the people who are making you feel afraid to come here, and who are filling your kids with fear, are a tiny minority that is just REALLY LOUD. In my personal life, that is definitely the case.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jun 14, 2016 23:16:50 GMT
Well Dalai, would you think I am being overly cautious when I tell you that my family I am going to visit, one of them is married to a spokesperson for Trump that is well known. We will definitely be in the lion's den, so to speak. Then you should know that he is not calling for a ban on all Muslims, for goodness sake. A temporary ban on those coming from countries where backgrounds cannot be checked: War zones. Good grief, the FUD that goes on, I swear. You should be in much more fear if you were Jewish. The hate crimes against Jews are far higher than those against Muslims. 2014 Stats from the FBI: • 56.8 percent were victims of crimes motivated by their offenders’ anti-Jewish bias. • 16.1 percent were victims of anti-Islamic (Muslim) bias. www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2014/topic-pages/victims_final
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 23:18:28 GMT
Living here in Morocco, we actually have more direct threats from ISIS. I attended a town hall meeting a couple of months ago sponsored by the US Embassy and they had a bureau spokesman who told us that last year alone there were well over a hundred arrests in regards to terrorism here. The Moroccan police, public and secret, are no joke here. First of all, guns are illegal here. Only the military and gendarmerie (like State Troopers) carry guns. All purses and bags are searched or they use wands when entering any of the malls. The big mall in Casablanca, the police actually search your trunk and scan the car before you can enter into the garage. And the airport, no ticketed passengers are allowed to enter AT ALL. You must wait outside.
Just last month, they caught an ISIS guy that was planning to hit the big summer concert we have at the start of each summer.
And I still feel that my family and I are safer here than in the States!
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M in Carolina
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 29, 2014 12:11:41 GMT
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Post by M in Carolina on Jun 14, 2016 23:19:21 GMT
I am so sorry that my fellow countrymen have said and done things to make you feel afraid (rightly so) to visit here.
Not everyone feels this way. I live in the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area of North Carolina, and there is a large Muslim community as well as one of the largest Indian communities in the US--the tiny suburb I live in is called "Little India" (most of these hateful idiots can't tell the difference between a Muslim and a turban and/or bearded Sikh)
There are a lot of hijab wearing Muslims in my area, and I've never seen anyone treat them badly in public. I also lived right by Dearborn, Michigan, for a few years, and I only saw a few people give Muslims a nasty look or comment (this was right after 9/11 and as time went on, I saw less of these hateful displays).
Depending on the atmosphere of the area you visit, I think it would also be ok for you son to visit the local mosque. The mosque leaders would best know the level of tension in their area.
Trump is an extremely loudmouthed, hateful, blowhard, but even if he is elected, it will be more difficult to banish Muslims from the US than he says. Congress and the Supreme Court would have to allow it, which goes against our constitution. Sadly the most hateful people get the most media exposure, but not everyone agrees with Trump or wants this to happen. Even countries--like France-- that have had a long history of racial and religious riots and terrorism-- haven't had a large enough support to ban all Muslims. I think it will be much more difficult to accomplish than people think. (I think building a wall between Mexico and the US will have a higher chance of happening)
Again, I am so sorry that people and events in my country have caused this heartache and anxiety for you and your family.
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YooHoot
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 3:11:50 GMT
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Post by YooHoot on Jun 14, 2016 23:20:47 GMT
Ugh. I'm so sorry. To be afraid like that isn't something I have experience with. Most people here do not feel this way though and I hope those are the only types you are in contact with. Big hugs to you and your children.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 23:23:53 GMT
My nephews are Muslim and it makes me sick that I am relieved they have "white" first names. So hopefully they won't be judged right off the bat. I have no answers for you, just want you to know there are many, many decent and tolerant people who want you to come back for a visit. My kids have very Arabic sounding names so...... And to look at my son, you would not know he is Arabic or Muslim but as soon as people hear his name, you see it come over their face. Hey and welcome back. I've missed you for you and for the voice of common sense in the face of discrimination in the name of religion. I think you will be ok as long as your family agrees to the terms you've outlined here. And, for any naysayers? The shit just got real. My dear friend, who's your typical blonde blue eyed gal, has been married to a wonderful guy who happens to be from Turkey. They've been together 20 years with two kids. She just made him shave his beard and to speak only English in public due to the ignorance in this country. ? Thanks Kelpea. I have been busy working a lot this year. I have been lurking a lot. Just have not had the energy to venture into the fray.
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Dalai Mama
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Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 14, 2016 23:25:57 GMT
Well Dalai, would you think I am being overly cautious when I tell you that my family I am going to visit, one of them is married to a spokesperson for Trump that is well known. We will definitely be in the lion's den, so to speak. Our Muslim friends still living Stateside do not feel comfortable either. Many that I talk to are upset and angry. Angry that they are being portrayed as radicals AND they are angry that the dumbass radicals are doing the horrible things that they are. They feel helpless. Which I why I suggested talking to people there. There are large swaths of American society that wouldn't give you any issues. Stay away from your back-assed in-law (although, why you would need to be told that?) But I get it. It's the same reason (kind of, not really) as an atheist, I won't go to Maldives or UAE - I'd probably be fine but I'm not overly comfortable going to a country where my lack of religion is punishable by death.
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YooHoot
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,417
Jun 26, 2014 3:11:50 GMT
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Post by YooHoot on Jun 14, 2016 23:26:42 GMT
Living here in Morocco, we actually have more direct threats from ISIS. I attended a town hall meeting a couple of months ago sponsored by the US Embassy and they had a bureau spokesman who told us that last year alone there were well over a hundred arrests in regards to terrorism here. The Moroccan police, public and secret, are no joke here. First of all, guns are illegal here. Only the military and gendarmerie (like State Troopers) carry guns. All purses and bags are searched or they use wands when entering any of the malls. The big mall in Casablanca, the police actually search your trunk and scan the car before you can enter into the garage. And the airport, no ticketed passengers are allowed to enter AT ALL. You must wait outside. Just last month, they caught an ISIS guy that was planning to hit the big summer concert we have at the start of each summer. And I still feel that my family and I are safer here than in the States! That just makes me so sad. How scary to live like that. Come visit me...ill make sure nobody messes with you or they will get an earful from me. I have very little tolerance simple minded idiots.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 14, 2016 23:27:21 GMT
I think that depending on where you're visiting, your view point is very skewed by the news that you're hearing coming from the US to Morocco. As you're well aware, the US is an incredibly diverse place - I will only speak to my little corner of the world, and the places I visit regularly (the Western US). We have a vibrant Muslim community and relations are MUCH, MUCH better than 15 years ago. I'm not going to claim there's no bigotry, but Muslims aren't being attacked on the streets. I flew from SFO last week and there are still many women wearing traditional dress - even beyond a hijab. In your shoes, I probably would discourage my son from speaking arabic on the plane, mostly as people have a heightened sense of fear on planes, and I wouldn't want to risk a misunderstanding. But I would be very surprised if praying would be unsafe in the US. There are very, very few instances of any violence in any mosque in the US. I'm sorry that there are some extremely loud mouths, saying ridiculous things that make you fear visiting the US. I hope your family has an enjoyable trip.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 23:27:36 GMT
I am really sorry. I can't imagine being on the receiving end of the anti-Muslim rhetoric that has been flying now for years, and that has been intensifying in recent months. I can tell you that my religious institution (which is Jewish) has been posting messages of love for the LGBT community and for our Muslim friends and communities, who we know are dealing with ignorance and intolerance. I can tell you that our local press has featured observant Muslims who have been praying for the victims and for peace. I really hope that the majority of Americans feel that way, and that the people who are making you feel afraid to come here, and who are filling your kids with fear, are a tiny minority that is just REALLY LOUD. In my personal life, that is definitely the case. But the person my son is frightened of most right now is Donald Trump, who is running for President! How do you deal with that?
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YooHoot
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 3:11:50 GMT
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Post by YooHoot on Jun 14, 2016 23:28:41 GMT
I am really sorry. I can't imagine being on the receiving end of the anti-Muslim rhetoric that has been flying now for years, and that has been intensifying in recent months. I can tell you that my religious institution (which is Jewish) has been posting messages of love for the LGBT community and for our Muslim friends and communities, who we know are dealing with ignorance and intolerance. I can tell you that our local press has featured observant Muslims who have been praying for the victims and for peace. I really hope that the majority of Americans feel that way, and that the people who are making you feel afraid to come here, and who are filling your kids with fear, are a tiny minority that is just REALLY LOUD. In my personal life, that is definitely the case. But the person my son is frightened of most right now is Donald Trump, who is running for President! How do you deal with that? I'm a republican. He's not getting my vote. I guarantee it will be Hillary. Most republicans I come in contact with feel the same.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 23:32:12 GMT
We were a country that was formed by immigrants to give its citizens religious freedom, somewhere we have forgotten that. scrapngranny It's so disheartening to hear what was once the country that drew people to it and welcomed them is now a place to be feared. It makes me so sad. jackie>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I completely disagree with the two statements above. We are a country formed by rebels who wanted freedom from the church of England. The founders wanted their own religious freedom, not necessarily for everyone else to have it. There is plenty of internal history of prosecution of incorrect religious parties. Salem witch trials ring a bell? Removal of children from indigenous peoples so the children couldn't be indoctrinated in their people's religious beliefs. Some educational reading from the Smithsonian: www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history-of-religious-tolerance-61312684/?no-istThe US was only "welcoming" to the moneyed or skilled whites and even then not all whites were equally welcome (check out the history of Irish immigration! The belief that we as a nation welcomed all and offered religious freedom to all is history that is white washed for white school children.
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Post by epeanymous on Jun 14, 2016 23:35:34 GMT
I am really sorry. I can't imagine being on the receiving end of the anti-Muslim rhetoric that has been flying now for years, and that has been intensifying in recent months. I can tell you that my religious institution (which is Jewish) has been posting messages of love for the LGBT community and for our Muslim friends and communities, who we know are dealing with ignorance and intolerance. I can tell you that our local press has featured observant Muslims who have been praying for the victims and for peace. I really hope that the majority of Americans feel that way, and that the people who are making you feel afraid to come here, and who are filling your kids with fear, are a tiny minority that is just REALLY LOUD. In my personal life, that is definitely the case. But the person my son is frightened of most right now is Donald Trump, who is running for President! How do you deal with that? I can't tell you the number of people I know whose kids have expressed fear that he will deport them, or their friends, or round people up, or register them. Rhetoric has consequences, and the consequences among other things are fear. I am really sorry. It is not going to happen. I really believe that, come November, you are going to see people in the US come together to say, that's not who we are, and that is not what has made this country great, and we are sorry you ever had to feel that way. I know that doesn't help a lot in the meantime, but we are not our minority of worst elements.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 23:43:11 GMT
I am really sorry. I can't imagine being on the receiving end of the anti-Muslim rhetoric that has been flying now for years, and that has been intensifying in recent months. I can tell you that my religious institution (which is Jewish) has been posting messages of love for the LGBT community and for our Muslim friends and communities, who we know are dealing with ignorance and intolerance. I can tell you that our local press has featured observant Muslims who have been praying for the victims and for peace. I really hope that the majority of Americans feel that way, and that the people who are making you feel afraid to come here, and who are filling your kids with fear, are a tiny minority that is just REALLY LOUD. In my personal life, that is definitely the case. But the person my son is frightened of most right now is Donald Trump, who is running for President! How do you deal with that? DT is ONE person. Even IF he becomes president he is NOT all powerful. I think you deal with your son by educating him on how the American government process works and maybe start cutting down on the amount of exposure your son has to political news if he is too young to understand the concept of one person is NOT all powerful in the US, even the president.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
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Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Jun 14, 2016 23:45:33 GMT
I'm so sorry people here in the US are causing you and your children concern about visiting your family. My heart is breaking for this country.
I hope you have a good visit with no problems.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 14, 2016 23:46:32 GMT
I am to visit my family in a week in a half in the States and I am quite nervous about it. So much so that I convinced my husband not to come with us. I have read about several instances of people having Muslims/Arabs removed from flights because they thought the person was a threat simply for speaking Arabic. Even though we are American citizens, I am so frightened of the climate in America right now. i have been telling my children not to speak Arabic on the plane or while we are visiting. I have told my son to not pray while we are there. He wanted to visit the mosque where we used to live but I have told him it is not a good idea right now. My son happened to hear about Trump banning Muslims from America and he got really upset that we couldn't go back to see our family. How can I calm his fears when I don't know myself. The reality is that this hatred and rhetoric is going to alienate not only the Muslims in America but those moderate Muslims abroad who are an integral part of helping to eradicate radical Islamist (which I have no problem calling them out). Imagine having to hide who you are for fear you will be threatened or thrown off a plane or God knows what. I'm so sorry that an asshat like Trump has made such a terrible choice of his words and actions ---I understand your hesitation, but there are more sane people that the egotistic jerk that has a captive media audience right now. I'm sorry that this frightens you, I do hope that you can travel without fear. This makes me so sad.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 14, 2016 23:48:51 GMT
I am really sorry. I can't imagine being on the receiving end of the anti-Muslim rhetoric that has been flying now for years, and that has been intensifying in recent months. I can tell you that my religious institution (which is Jewish) has been posting messages of love for the LGBT community and for our Muslim friends and communities, who we know are dealing with ignorance and intolerance. I can tell you that our local press has featured observant Muslims who have been praying for the victims and for peace. I really hope that the majority of Americans feel that way, and that the people who are making you feel afraid to come here, and who are filling your kids with fear, are a tiny minority that is just REALLY LOUD. In my personal life, that is definitely the case. But the person my son is frightened of most right now is Donald Trump, who is running for President! How do you deal with that? what is he frightened of? Trump has no power now nor when you are coming. Trump can blow smoke out his ass until November, it isn't going to affect your visit. If your family isn't accepting, tell them to stuff it and walk away. Or just don't visit the ones that are assholes. There aren't widespread attacks on Muslims in this country currently. There are loud mouth assholes that spew hate, but it isn't something to be feared.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 23:54:36 GMT
But the person my son is frightened of most right now is Donald Trump, who is running for President! How do you deal with that? DT is ONE person. Even IF he becomes president he is NOT all powerful. I think you deal with your son by educating him on how the American government process works and maybe start cutting down on the amount of exposure your son has to political news if he is too young to understand the concept of one person is NOT all powerful in the US, even the president. Actually Volt, he isn't getting this from TV. It is what a lot of people are talking about here. As BeckyTech so "lovingly" put it, the FUD is real overseas. Most people I talk to hear fear and believe he will ban ALL Muslims. My son heard it at school...a non English speaking school.
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 15, 2016 0:02:38 GMT
Allipeas, my heart breaks for you and your family. What more can I say? It is extremely sad that the country I iive in and love, the USA, has sunk to this, that people are fearful of coming to visit. It's just sad.
I guess I would reassure your son that Trump can NOT touch him. Now or ever, and it's all political talking. I hope you guys can still enjoy your trip.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Jun 15, 2016 0:04:09 GMT
You are coming now during Ramadan? It seems people here tend to go a little whacko too. I don't practice in my house, I don't do my salat or anything because it's just easier than trying to explain and not get yelled at. The fear is very real here. We had a shooting just outside the mosque about 200 feet away. A taxi being driven by an Arab had his rear window shot out. People in niqabs being stopped and questioned. It is pretty bad here right now. I won't go to Iftar at the masjid on Friday nights. I mean our Iftars are lots of fun, but I am afraid of the familial backlash and just stay quiet. Don't ask don't tell.
Ramadan Mubarak!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 0:05:01 GMT
I wish there was a way I could describe what it feels like being on a plane and feeling like people are afraid of you or your husband. Or how we have to be careful not to let "inshallah" slip because if anyone hears "Allah" they freak out.
Some of you really have no idea how scary things look from the outside looking in.
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