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Post by Merge on Jul 18, 2016 13:13:09 GMT
This guy was no part of any black movement. He was part of the sovereign citizen movement. Sovereign Citizen Wow, that's some nutty stuff there.
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olandeux
Shy Member
Posts: 21
Jul 18, 2016 10:23:27 GMT
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Post by olandeux on Jul 18, 2016 14:12:49 GMT
Right. A crazed dude who posted several videos saying he wasn't affiliated with anyone except vengeance. Vengeful behavior doesn't have a cause except ones own personal feelings. Don't go blaming the "blacks" while telling us you aren't racist because you have a rebellious daughter.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 18, 2016 15:24:43 GMT
Both shooters have military background. "I have love for my city but I wonder if my city has love for me" Change that to country and you will see why the thugs and BLM shouldn't be to blame. WTF, really? We shouldn't blame the thugs who are shooting? Bullshit. They are the ones responsible.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 18, 2016 15:27:34 GMT
Sad to say, I'm beginning to feel similarly. I'm beginning to look at these fools as stupid. Do they really think that by doing all these murders, blocking roads, etc. it's going to make people like them more or feel sympathy for them? How about doing good things? Prove that they aren't thugs, that people who think of them as such are mistaken. One similar thing is "bikers" and the way they've been perceived as bad guys. Bikers have some of the biggest hearts out there and so many groups have started really good projects to show that. An example is Bikers Against Child Abuse. Many biker groups do runs for underprivileged children, humane societies, and so many other fundraisers and awareness programs. These days bikers are more often seen as the "good guys" instead of bad. If you don't want to have a bad reputation, don't do bad stuff. Edited for clarity: Before someone jumps to the wrong conclusion about this post... I do not mean all black people! I mean, specifically the people performing these terrible acts. I just want to make that crystal clear. I love peaceful people no matter what their color, age, religion, weight, etc. Every person is responsible only foe their own actions and when passionate people put their energy to use for good rather than evil, we all win. White people have a reputation too. I think that's why shit is about to go real bad for America as it relates to international relations. Everyone knows the nature of white people and they seem to be bombing us all in retaliation. Don't worry about black people. Imagine one large house. Imagine a field of slaves. A people stolen from their rich lands. Men who've been beaten. Women who've been raped and separated from their children. Remember that large house? It only has one master. Black people aren't generally vengeful people. Unless they've had prior military service. ah, so you are a racist as well. Gotcha.
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olandeux
Shy Member
Posts: 21
Jul 18, 2016 10:23:27 GMT
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Post by olandeux on Jul 18, 2016 15:32:57 GMT
White people have a reputation too. I think that's why shit is about to go real bad for America as it relates to international relations. Everyone knows the nature of white people and they seem to be bombing us all in retaliation. Don't worry about black people. Imagine one large house. Imagine a field of slaves. A people stolen from their rich lands. Men who've been beaten. Women who've been raped and separated from their children. Remember that large house? It only has one master. Black people aren't generally vengeful people. Unless they've had prior military service. ah, so you are a racist as well. Gotcha. Just for arguments sake. Yes
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 18, 2016 15:36:00 GMT
Okay, so I am probably not going to phrase this well, so forgive me for fumbling language- but within this narrative somewhere, there is a problem. How can we (or the shooters rather) claim racism, at least as it pertains to the shooting of police because a number of the police officers who are being shot are the same race as the shooter(s)?
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olandeux
Shy Member
Posts: 21
Jul 18, 2016 10:23:27 GMT
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Post by olandeux on Jul 18, 2016 15:40:09 GMT
Okay, so I am probably not going to phrase this well, so forgive me for fumbling language- but within this narrative somewhere, there is a problem. How can we (or the shooters rather) claim racism, at least as it pertains to the shooting of police because a number of the police officers who are being shot are the same race as the shooter(s)? They can't. They are mentally ill. The Dallas shooter had plans to do something crazy way before he got wind of Baton Rouge or MN. Even if they claimed they did it because of racism we'd still have to take into consideration they are bat shit PTSD crazy.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 18, 2016 15:44:24 GMT
Okay, so I am probably not going to phrase this well, so forgive me for fumbling language- but within this narrative somewhere, there is a problem. How can we (or the shooters rather) claim racism, at least as it pertains to the shooting of police because a number of the police officers who are being shot are the same race as the shooter(s)? They can't. They are mentally ill. The Dallas shooter had plans to do something crazy way before he got wind of Baton Rouge or MN. Even if they claimed they did it because of racism we'd still have to take into consideration they are bat shit PTSD crazy. I think that is my point. My mom and I were talking about this the other day and I asked that very question about mental illness and PTSD and how the conversations are being skewed away from what may be the real conversation in those cases because of the very divisive racial conversations we are having at the same time. We seem to want to pigeon hole all of our issues into one conversation and that can't possibly happen-when we try to boil it all down to one 'us' or 'them' we miss all the other salient points that very much need to be part of the conversations. ETA: Boy, who knew you could use the word 'conversations' so many times in one very short paragraph. Sorry about that. Maybe I should ask for a thesaurus for my birthday.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 18, 2016 15:44:25 GMT
Okay, so I am probably not going to phrase this well, so forgive me for fumbling language- but within this narrative somewhere, there is a problem. How can we (or the shooters rather) claim racism, at least as it pertains to the shooting of police because a number of the police officers who are being shot are the same race as the shooter(s)? not calling the shooter racist, the previous poster, yes. The shooters that are targeting cops may or may not be racist, but their aim seems to be cops, not people who are a different race.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 4:49:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 15:44:33 GMT
Sad to say, I'm beginning to feel similarly. I'm beginning to look at these fools as stupid. Do they really think that by doing all these murders, blocking roads, etc. it's going to make people like them more or feel sympathy for them? How about doing good things? Prove that they aren't thugs, that people who think of them as such are mistaken. One similar thing is "bikers" and the way they've been perceived as bad guys. Bikers have some of the biggest hearts out there and so many groups have started really good projects to show that. An example is Bikers Against Child Abuse. Many biker groups do runs for underprivileged children, humane societies, and so many other fundraisers and awareness programs. These days bikers are more often seen as the "good guys" instead of bad. If you don't want to have a bad reputation, don't do bad stuff. Edited for clarity: Before someone jumps to the wrong conclusion about this post... I do not mean all black people! I mean, specifically the people performing these terrible acts. I just want to make that crystal clear. I love peaceful people no matter what their color, age, religion, weight, etc. Every person is responsible only foe their own actions and when passionate people put their energy to use for good rather than evil, we all win. White people have a reputation too. I think that's why shit is about to go real bad for America as it relates to international relations. Everyone knows the nature of white people and they seem to be bombing us all in retaliation. Don't worry about black people. Imagine one large house. Imagine a field of slaves. A people stolen from their rich lands. Men who've been beaten. Women who've been raped and separated from their children. Remember that large house? It only has one master. Black people aren't generally vengeful people. Unless they've had prior military service. Hi, I have to take offense to this, not ALL white people owned slaves. My ancestors are Native Americans(the first ones robbed even before black people)and emigrated from Italy. Then that statement about prior miltary service, nice way to offened. Can't we try to have a civil conversation without attacking? This thread was not intended to turn into a race debate.
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,706
Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on Jul 18, 2016 15:55:56 GMT
As a black woman, this thread makes me sad. Blantant racism right here on 2peas. But it's all good because as long as you have a token place [insert position here], that makes you not racist.
This thread truly makes me sad. I can't say it enough. Just sad.
Thank you for those who see differently.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,785
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Jul 18, 2016 15:58:34 GMT
And not all slaves were black. I would point people in the direction of "To Hell or Barbados" by Sean O Callaghan. Blurb reads A vivid account of the Irish slave trade: the previously untold story of over 50,000 Irish men, women and children who were transported to Barbados and Virginia. Another story "Just before dawn on the morning of June 20, 1631, an invasion force of pirates from the Barbary Coast of North Africa, backed by elite troops of the Turkish Ottoman Empire, stormed ashore at the quiet West Cork village of Baltimore and abducted nearly all the villagers for sale on the slave markets." from this article www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-irish-village-that-was-kidnapped-by-islamist-extremists-26362949.htmlETA in posting these stories I am not trying to lessen the experiences of more recent slave trade, which still goes on today but is more hidden in plain sight, but to point out when one group of people is regarded as less than another group then those in power will abuse. Let's teach our children that we are all equal.
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olandeux
Shy Member
Posts: 21
Jul 18, 2016 10:23:27 GMT
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Post by olandeux on Jul 18, 2016 16:00:39 GMT
White people have a reputation too. I think that's why shit is about to go real bad for America as it relates to international relations. Everyone knows the nature of white people and they seem to be bombing us all in retaliation. Don't worry about black people. Imagine one large house. Imagine a field of slaves. A people stolen from their rich lands. Men who've been beaten. Women who've been raped and separated from their children. Remember that large house? It only has one master. Black people aren't generally vengeful people. Unless they've had prior military service. Hi, I have to take offense to this, not ALL white people owned slaves. My ancestors are Native Americans(the first ones robbed even before black people)and emigrated from Italy. Then that statement about prior miltary service, nice way to offened. Can't we try to have a civil conversation without attacking? This thread was not intended to turn into a race debate. Your offense was noted and filed away. Your argument is too fucking typical for me to even address though so you will have to try again with one of the peas daughters black boyfriends
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 18, 2016 16:05:47 GMT
As a black woman, this thread makes me sad. Blantant racism right here on 2peas. But it's all good because as long as you have a token place [insert position here], that makes you not racist. This thread truly makes me sad. I can't say it enough. Just sad. Thank you for those who see differently. do you truly think it is racism, or might there be a lack or elegance in trying to convey a thought through typed words on the Internet? How does one defend themselves against being labeled as a racist? I would think it would be by using examples of how they are not. Doesn't that always bring up the "I have ____ friends" statement and doesn't that then lead to the accusation if token member? The statement earlier of "the blacks" obviously struck me as wrong which is why I said something, but does that mean the poster is racist or just expressed herself incorrectly? I don't know the answer
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Post by StacyAngel on Jul 18, 2016 16:10:03 GMT
As a black woman, this thread makes me sad. Blantant racism right here on 2peas. But it's all good because as long as you have a token place [insert position here], that makes you not racist. This thread truly makes me sad. I can't say it enough. Just sad. Thank you for those who see differently. do you truly think it is racism, or might there be a lack or elegance in trying to convey a thought through typed words on the Internet? How does one defend themselves against being labeled as a racist? I would think it would be by using examples of how they are not. Doesn't that always bring up the "I have ____ friends" statement and doesn't that then lead to the accusation if token member? The statement earlier of "the blacks" obviously struck me as wrong which is why I said something, but does that mean the poster is racist or just expressed herself incorrectly? I don't know the answer What I do is go by the person's history if they are known to me. I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt. In this situation I think it comes down to difficult to communicate on the message board not the person being a racist. This is how I viewed it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 4:49:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 16:30:06 GMT
Hi, I have to take offense to this, not ALL white people owned slaves. My ancestors are Native Americans(the first ones robbed even before black people)and emigrated from Italy. Then that statement about prior miltary service, nice way to offened. Can't we try to have a civil conversation without attacking? This thread was not intended to turn into a race debate. Your offense was noted and filed away. Your argument is too fucking typical for me to even address though so you will have to try again with one of the peas daughters black boyfriends
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 4:49:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 16:31:10 GMT
Again, olandeux, FUCK OFF. YOU ARE JUST AS RACIST AGAINST WHITES AS YOU SAY I AM ABOUT BLACKS. Where you at our home when my husband and i told our daughter the only thing that mattered in a boyfriend is he is someone who treats you like you see daddy treat me. But, you do know it all, because after all i am white.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 18, 2016 16:32:05 GMT
Thanks for that eloquent and intelligent defense of your point.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 4:49:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 16:35:11 GMT
Thanks for that eloquent and intelligent defense of your point.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 4:49:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 16:35:44 GMT
You are not worth anything more than that.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 18, 2016 16:40:17 GMT
You are a fucking idiot. I have never gone off here to make me sound or seem racist, yet you make the ASSumption that i am over one statement. Some of the people on this board are worse than racists. You all are a bunch of judgemental hypocrites. You all act like you are experts on profiling someone you have never met. You ask can fuck off. You vilify all black people ("Do blacks really think they are helping their cause by targeting the police?") When you get called out for this ignorant generalization, you trot out the fact that you allow your daughter to date a black boy as proof of your progressive nature. You want applause for not barring her from dating an entire race of people, like this is something amazing on your part. Your response to people who point this out is "fuck off." Seems we struck a nerve. Maybe you should think about why you're so bothered by being told how ignorant and racist your generalizations are, and maybe you should think about why you feel like you deserve a head pat for not barring your daughter from dating a black boy.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 18, 2016 16:42:26 GMT
You are not worth anything more than that. You need to learn how to use the quote function here. And the feeling is mutual. You are way too ignorant and foul for me to waste any more time on. You want to talk about thuggery? Responding to valid criticism with foul language makes you appear uneducated and low-class. Kinda like those "thugs" you are angry at.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,630
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Jul 18, 2016 16:48:29 GMT
They can't. They are mentally ill. The Dallas shooter had plans to do something crazy way before he got wind of Baton Rouge or MN. Even if they claimed they did it because of racism we'd still have to take into consideration they are bat shit PTSD crazy. I think that is my point. My mom and I were talking about this the other day and I asked that very question about mental illness and PTSD and how the conversations are being skewed away from what may be the real conversation in those cases because of the very divisive racial conversations we are having at the same time. We seem to want to pigeon hole all of our issues into one conversation and that can't possibly happen-when we try to boil it all down to one 'us' or 'them' we miss all the other salient points that very much need to be part of the conversations. ETA: Boy, who knew you could use the word 'conversations' so many times in one very short paragraph. Sorry about that. Maybe I should ask for a thesaurus for my birthday. We are being skewed away from the real issue of PTSD because Congress has repeatedly cut the VA budget. It's a lot easier to place the blame elsewhere.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 18, 2016 16:57:17 GMT
As a black woman, this thread makes me sad. Blantant racism right here on 2peas. But it's all good because as long as you have a token place [insert position here], that makes you not racist. This thread truly makes me sad. I can't say it enough. Just sad. Thank you for those who see differently. do you truly think it is racism, or might there be a lack or elegance in trying to convey a thought through typed words on the Internet? How does one defend themselves against being labeled as a racist? I would think it would be by using examples of how they are not. Doesn't that always bring up the "I have ____ friends" statement and doesn't that then lead to the accusation if token member? The statement earlier of "the blacks" obviously struck me as wrong which is why I said something, but does that mean the poster is racist or just expressed herself incorrectly? I don't know the answer I think that @tishy pissed a lot of people off because of this statement: "My head and heart hurt. I am disgusted and am actually starting to feel racist. I am not, have not been in the past, racist. My daughters first boyfriend is black and we are not. I have no problem with this." So you have Tishy flat out admitting that she is blaming *all* black people for the actions of a few and then trotting out "we let our daughter date a black boy" as if it cancels out the ugly statement she made right before that. I don't believe that all white people are racist, nor do I believe the b.s. that people of color cannot be racist. Small-mindedness is, sadly, a human trait. And there will always be small minded humans of all colors.
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happymomma
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
Aug 6, 2014 23:57:56 GMT
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Post by happymomma on Jul 18, 2016 17:03:49 GMT
I know a LOT of PTSD combat vets. In fact I was with a whole group of them yesterday and the topic of cop killings came up. Every single one of them was upset and disgusted about it. I just don't believe that PTSD is the reason these officers are being ambushed and slaughtered.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 18, 2016 17:08:37 GMT
do you truly think it is racism, or might there be a lack or elegance in trying to convey a thought through typed words on the Internet? How does one defend themselves against being labeled as a racist? I would think it would be by using examples of how they are not. Doesn't that always bring up the "I have ____ friends" statement and doesn't that then lead to the accusation if token member? The statement earlier of "the blacks" obviously struck me as wrong which is why I said something, but does that mean the poster is racist or just expressed herself incorrectly? I don't know the answer I think that @tishy pissed a lot of people off because of this statement: "My head and heart hurt. I am disgusted and am actually starting to feel racist. I am not, have not been in the past, racist. My daughters first boyfriend is black and we are not. I have no problem with this." So you have Tishy flat out admitting that she is blaming *all* black people for the actions of a few and then trotting out "we let our daughter date a black boy" as if it cancels out the ugly statement she made right before that. I don't believe that all white people are racist, nor do I believe the b.s. that people of color cannot be racist. Small-mindedness is, sadly, a human trait. And there will always be small minded humans of all colors. ah, I didn't read it as closely as I thought. I read the "the black,,," comment and had to say something about I and must have lost the rest of the post in my head. Unfortunately, I think she may have articulated a feeling that is growing. I blame the media in part for it. They show nationally the handful of blm protests that turn violent, destroy property, or block traffic, but not the peaceful ones held in thousands of cities across the country. People who don't have much experience with those of a different race get clouded. I live in a small, rural area. If there are 5 black families in the area, I'd be surprised. I can see some of the kids, with their lack of exposure, thinking what the news shows is how it is and yet never once looking at their one black classmate as anything other than their classmate because he is just "peter" and not "the black kid, peter." I'm sure I am not expressing myself well. I guess I hold on to the hope that most people are not racist and that they judge a person not by the color of their skin, but by their interactions with the person. But, as with everyone else, my views are colored by my experiences and environment. I've never lived in an area that seemed to have large racial discords.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 18, 2016 17:20:33 GMT
freecharlie , I do understand what you are trying to say, and I appreciate your thoughtful and intelligent response to my post. I think that most of us are good people who are worried about our country and its future. We are parents who worry about what kind of world we are creating for our children. We are sad and wounded and angry. I don't know the answer, either, but I do believe that intelligent dialogue is a beginning. Hugs to you.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 18, 2016 17:25:59 GMT
freecharlie , I do understand what you are trying to say, and I appreciate your thoughtful and intelligent response to my post. I think that most of us are good people who are worried about our country and its future. We are parents who worry about what kind of world we are creating for our children. We are sad and wounded and angry. I don't know the answer, either, but I do believe that intelligent dialogue is a beginning. Hugs to you. Right now, today, I worry about so much. I worry about how we are all treating each other-and that extends beyond race. We are quickly dividing into smaller communities that isolate us from what our group perceives as other-race, ethnicity, religion, whatever. That concerns me. And I will admit, on the very basest level? It is so hard for me to global the discussions-my son lives, works, goes to school and is a member of the National Guard in Baton Rouge. Right now, with all that is happening there my biggest fear is that they will be called up and that having a military presence will only make it worse putting him, his unit, the citizens of the city, in greater conflict.
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grammanisi
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,741
Jun 26, 2014 1:37:37 GMT
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Post by grammanisi on Jul 18, 2016 18:00:24 GMT
I also take umbrage with the labeling of these officers involved in these shootings as "bad" cops. There is no evidence that they are "bad". This implies they are bad people at the core, a disgrace to the uniform. They are HUMAN beings, who in a tense and dangerous situation, had to make a split second decision that not one of us arm chair QBs could even fathom making. They had to decide, in the blink of an eye, if there was a threat to their lives and then had to decide if they could take the life of another human being. At that moment, they effing skin color of the person on the other end of the gun wasn't wven a consideration. There was nothing "bad" about those cops. Just human instinct and training. I assure you, ANY man or woman who puts that uniform on could end up in the same situation on any given day This is not what I was implying, at all. I guess I worded it wrong.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 4:49:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 18:04:48 GMT
I'm not deciding anything for anyone. I expressed my opinion just like everyone else does. Have a nice evening, Merge. No, Gia, when you finish your opinion with "that needs to stop," you're telling people what opinions they can and can't post. I'm just following your lead... If you're maintaining that @tishy didn't receive the "unconsciously biased" label (and now the outright racist label) then I didn't decide anything for anyone.
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