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Post by elaine on Sept 18, 2016 2:22:23 GMT
I guess I have missed the part in the 2nd amendment that states that gun ownership/ammo/licenses, etc. should be made affordable to all citizens. What's the cap? Maybe I need to do some research and polish up on my 2nd amendment knowledge. Truly, this argument makes mo sense to me. Someone's "right" to be able to easily afford guns and ammo should never trump my child's ability to survive her day at kindergarten. Amen.
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 20:45:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2016 2:32:27 GMT
I guess I have missed the part in the 2nd amendment that states that gun ownership/ammo/licenses, etc. should be made affordable to all citizens. What's the cap? Maybe I need to do some research and polish up on my 2nd amendment knowledge. Truly, this argument makes no sense to me. Someone's "right" to be able to easily afford guns and ammo should never trump my child's ability to survive her day at kindergarten. No kidding. Well, if gun ownership and licensing now has to be affordable for all, then car ownership and licensing also needs to be affordable for all.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 18, 2016 2:36:22 GMT
Now the NRA is continuing with the lie (TV commercial). The spot says "don't let Hillary leave you with just a phone for protection " Asshats. Big lying ones. I just saw that lying sack of sh7t commercial by the NRA in the middle of my football game. I wanted to post it here, so people could see the NRA at its cowardly lying best, but it isn't on YouTube yet. The NRA are cowards. They can't handle the truth, or the ramifications of actually sticking to it. Heaven forbid they argue actual facts - clearly they think they would lose. So they lie like your 5 year old caught with his hand in the cookie jar and crumbs on his face. We must be watching the same game!!!
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Post by elaine on Sept 18, 2016 3:06:22 GMT
I just saw that lying sack of sh7t commercial by the NRA in the middle of my football game. I wanted to post it here, so people could see the NRA at its cowardly lying best, but it isn't on YouTube yet. The NRA are cowards. They can't handle the truth, or the ramifications of actually sticking to it. Heaven forbid they argue actual facts - clearly they think they would lose. So they lie like your 5 year old caught with his hand in the cookie jar and crumbs on his face. We must be watching the same game!!! GO BUCKEYES!!!
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Post by artgirl1 on Sept 18, 2016 3:36:06 GMT
"What are you complaining about, obviously it was a joke. This is what is wrong with the world today, people are so uptight and everything has to be so politically correct."
SERIOUSLY? Is it appropriate for a candidate for the Presidency or a President to spew jokes like this? Lets just incite everyone, including other countries. I do not expect the US President to spew this kind of garbage, joke or not!
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Post by lucyg on Sept 18, 2016 3:45:49 GMT
"What are you complaining about, obviously it was a joke. This is what is wrong with the world today, people are so uptight and everything has to be so politically correct." SERIOUSLY? Is it appropriate for a candidate for the Presidency or a President to spew jokes like this? Lets just incite everyone, including other countries. I do not expect the US President to spew this kind of garbage, joke or not! Relax. She was being sarcastic. You missed all the little angry faces (or devil faces?) at the bottom of her post.
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Post by elaine on Sept 18, 2016 3:47:01 GMT
"What are you complaining about, obviously it was a joke. This is what is wrong with the world today, people are so uptight and everything has to be so politically correct." SERIOUSLY? Is it appropriate for a candidate for the Presidency or a President to spew jokes like this? Lets just incite everyone, including other countries. I do not expect the US President to spew this kind of garbage, joke or not! Sarah doesn't believe that - she just sarcastically pre-empted the typical/usual responses by a handful of people here who always respond this way to any criticism of the garbage that Trump spews. If you look down, the fire-breathing emojis are the clue, if you don't know Sarah*H 's politics as well as some of us do.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 18, 2016 3:56:08 GMT
We must be watching the same game!!! GO BUCKEYES!!!O-H...
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,947
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Sept 18, 2016 3:58:03 GMT
Now the NRA is continuing with the lie (TV commercial). The spot says "don't let Hillary leave you with just a phone for protection " Asshats. Big lying ones. I just saw that lying sack of sh7t commercial by the NRA in the middle of my football game. I wanted to post it here, so people could see the NRA at its cowardly lying best, but it isn't on YouTube yet. The NRA are cowards. They can't handle the truth, or the ramifications of actually sticking to it. Heaven forbid they argue actual facts - clearly they think they would lose. So they lie like your 5 year old caught with his hand in the cookie jar and crumbs on his face. There are those of us that already know they are liars and the ones that don't will probably think it's the greatest commercial ever.
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 20:45:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2016 4:03:41 GMT
Seriously! He should say this about Beyonce, who has an issue with police; not Hillary. She never wanted to repeal the 2nd ammendment as far as I know. Can't keep up with the shit that comes out of Trump's mouth daily!
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Post by elaine on Sept 18, 2016 5:38:27 GMT
I-O!!!! What a game!
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Post by gar on Sept 18, 2016 9:21:55 GMT
I'm genuinely curious how citizens in other parts of the world manage to live full, productive and safe lives without being armed to the teeth like the U.S. We do in the UK. The general public do not, on the whole, have guns. People can own guns, but there are very strict controls and they have to have a good reason. There was a massacre of children and their teacher in 1996 and that changed everything really. The registration for owning shotguns became mandatory and semi-automatic and pump-action weapons were banned. About a year and a half after Dunblane there was a ban on the private ownership of all handguns in mainland Britain. There were firearm amnesties across the UK and thousands of firearms and rounds of ammunition were handed in. Penalties for anyone found in possession of illegal firearms range from heavy fines to prison terms of up to 10 years. We do not have a desire to own guns, generally speaking, it's just not in our mindset. We are not fearful of gun attacks and the need to defend ourselves very, very rarely includes the thought that we may get shot. We have break-ins etc etc but they won't have a gun.
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Post by OntarioScrapper on Sept 18, 2016 9:34:27 GMT
I'm genuinely curious how citizens in other parts of the world manage to live full, productive and safe lives without being armed to the teeth like the U.S. ETA: and if they are, then what are they doing differently that you don't hear about a mass shooting every other week? We have been doing just fine in Canada without "being armed to the teeth like in the U.S." It's just how we have lived.
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Post by mollycoddle on Sept 18, 2016 10:22:39 GMT
I guess I have missed the part in the 2nd amendment that states that gun ownership/ammo/licenses, etc. should be made affordable to all citizens. What's the cap? Maybe I need to do some research and polish up on my 2nd amendment knowledge. Truly, this argument makes no sense to me. Someone's "right" to be able to easily afford guns and ammo should never trump my child's ability to survive her day at kindergarten. No kidding. Well, if gun ownership and licensing now has to be affordable for all, then car ownership and licensing also needs to be affordable for all. I agree. How is this different from car insurance? My car insurance is relatively high because of where I live. No one seems to have been worried that the higher rates would make cars unaffordable to some. Or am I missing something? I might need more coffee.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 18, 2016 12:53:48 GMT
I wish the government would change lobbying practices. Agencies and companies (like Monsanto and the NRA, among others) should not be able to have so much influence over the politicians that we elect. I would be really curious what the average person thinks should be done to help the gun problem in the US. The only other idea besides stricter gun laws is "focus on mental health". As someone who works in mental health care, I think that is great. But it isn't the only solution to the problem. It also seems that it is Republicans that are saying this. Since they are not the interested in funding more mental health programs, it comes across as an empty idea. Not to mention that in most situations we can't force people to get mental health care without a specific threat to harm self or others.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 18, 2016 13:01:11 GMT
I-O!!!! What a game! Yeah, that will teach Brian Kendal to say our defense is "basic"! Lol!!!
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Kath
Full Member
Posts: 446
Jun 26, 2014 12:15:31 GMT
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Post by Kath on Sept 18, 2016 17:34:14 GMT
link to story
I don't understand how anyone can vote for someone for President who gleefully hopes and wishes that something violent will happen to another human being.
He's not. This is a common sentiment that has been thrown around for years, perhaps decades, in the gun culture, conservative talk radio, etc. It's applied to various liberals who believe in disarming or restricting gun rights and is used in analogy on liberal rich people who have bodyguards, liberal actors who have bodyguards, liberal politicians who have bodyguards who are activists for taking away gun rights. It's similar in analogy, which is often used as well, that if Obama doesn't think we should have a wall at the southern border of America, then why doesn't he take down the wall surrounding the White House? It's been said about a billion times that I have heard, used on all sorts of people, and really has nothing at all to do with Hillary but rather the bigger picture of hypocrisy, the do as I say and not as I do mentality.
His supporters, gun culture, yada, yada, understand what he is saying, but somehow the press often doesn't. Strange to me as I am so familiar with the concept and yet these people act like it's the first time it's ever been said and draw really odd conclusions and connotations from it. It's almost like there's 2 different levels of communication going on.
It's a general, over-used, very old analogy. Again, nothing really to do with Hillary. It's the mentality. And Trump's supporters, the people he is speaking to, understand this. They know it has nothing to do with Hillary but what they don't like about what she represents. That the big people have rights and deserve to be protected and that the little people shouldn't have rights and don't deserve to be protected. That's the basic gist.
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Post by elaine on Sept 18, 2016 17:47:55 GMT
link to story
I don't understand how anyone can vote for someone for President who gleefully hopes and wishes that something violent will happen to another human being.
He's not. This is a common sentiment that has been thrown around for years, perhaps decades, in the gun culture, conservative talk radio, etc. It's applied to various liberals who believe in disarming or restricting gun rights and is used in analogy on liberal rich people who have bodyguards, liberal actors who have bodyguards, liberal politicians who have bodyguards who are activists for taking away gun rights. It's similar in analogy, which is often used as well, that if Obama doesn't think we should have a wall at the southern border of America, then why doesn't he take down the wall surrounding the White House? It's been said about a billion times that I have heard, used on all sorts of people, and really has nothing at all to do with Hillary but rather the bigger picture of hypocrisy, the do as I say and not as I do mentality.
His supporters, gun culture, yada, yada, understand what he is saying, but somehow the press often doesn't. Strange to me as I am so familiar with the concept and yet these people act like it's the first time it's ever been said and draw really odd conclusions and connotations from it. It's almost like there's 2 different levels of communication going on.
It's a general, over-used, very old analogy. Again, nothing really to do with Hillary. It's the mentality. And Trump's supporters, the people he is speaking to, understand this. They know it has nothing to do with Hillary but what they don't like about what she represents. That the big people have rights and deserve to be protected and that the little people shouldn't have rights and don't deserve to be protected. That's the basic gist.
The wall vs. the fence around the White House is the stupidest analogy I've heard of, thankfully I've never heard it before or I'd start wondering how stupid the American public had become. I am sorry you've had to hear it. It is akin to saying people who don't believe in welfare shouldn't be taking child credits on their tax returns. Hypocrisy and all. I have never ever heard ANYONE say, "Take her guards away AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. It will BE VERY DANGEROUS." I'd welcome a clip of anyone other than Trump saying it. Please! At at least your post will help explain to those who don't know Sarah*H when she predicted what she knew someone would say.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Sept 18, 2016 17:52:00 GMT
What are you complaining about, obviously it was a joke. This is what is wrong with the world today, people are so uptight and everything has to be so politically correct. <img src="//images.proboards.com/f/smiley/superangry.png" alt=" " class="smile" contenteditable="false" text=" " i think the problem is - he says things that might be 'tongue in cheek' but some of his supporters take his every word for damn near gospel i am surrounded by die-hard supporters - he can do no wrong..they twist everything he does into something worthy they will defend even the dumbest of actions gina well shit i missed that your post was a joke! but i'm going to leave my opinion -
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Kath
Full Member
Posts: 446
Jun 26, 2014 12:15:31 GMT
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Post by Kath on Sept 18, 2016 18:04:43 GMT
He's not. This is a common sentiment that has been thrown around for years, perhaps decades, in the gun culture, conservative talk radio, etc. It's applied to various liberals who believe in disarming or restricting gun rights and is used in analogy on liberal rich people who have bodyguards, liberal actors who have bodyguards, liberal politicians who have bodyguards who are activists for taking away gun rights. It's similar in analogy, which is often used as well, that if Obama doesn't think we should have a wall at the southern border of America, then why doesn't he take down the wall surrounding the White House? It's been said about a billion times that I have heard, used on all sorts of people, and really has nothing at all to do with Hillary but rather the bigger picture of hypocrisy, the do as I say and not as I do mentality.
His supporters, gun culture, yada, yada, understand what he is saying, but somehow the press often doesn't. Strange to me as I am so familiar with the concept and yet these people act like it's the first time it's ever been said and draw really odd conclusions and connotations from it. It's almost like there's 2 different levels of communication going on.
It's a general, over-used, very old analogy. Again, nothing really to do with Hillary. It's the mentality. And Trump's supporters, the people he is speaking to, understand this. They know it has nothing to do with Hillary but what they don't like about what she represents. That the big people have rights and deserve to be protected and that the little people shouldn't have rights and don't deserve to be protected. That's the basic gist.
The wall vs. the fence around the White House is the stupidest analogy I've heard of, thankfully I've never heard it before or I'd start wondering how stupid the American public had become. I am sorry you've had to hear it. It is akin to saying people who don't believe in welfare shouldn't be taking child credits on their tax returns. Hypocrisy and all. I have never ever heard ANYONE say, "Take her guards away AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. It will BE VERY DANGEROUS." I'd welcome a clip of anyone other than Trump saying it. Please! At at least your post will help explain to those who don't know Sarah*H when she predicted what she knew someone would say.
It doesn't matter the exact words. Only the common analogy matters. I think you're way overreading things here.
I watched your clip above. It's not a joke. It's equivalent to someone saying, "I can fly." And then someone else says, "Well, jump off a cliff then and see how well that works out for you." They're not being violent and hoping that person will die by actually jumping off a cliff. What they're saying is don't be an idiot. Hillary would be an idiot to take away her bodyguards, she needs protection, and we would be idiots for allowing Hillary to take away our protection. Let's not be idiots.
That's what I get from this.
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Post by elaine on Sept 18, 2016 18:27:45 GMT
The wall vs. the fence around the White House is the stupidest analogy I've heard of, thankfully I've never heard it before or I'd start wondering how stupid the American public had become. I am sorry you've had to hear it. It is akin to saying people who don't believe in welfare shouldn't be taking child credits on their tax returns. Hypocrisy and all. I have never ever heard ANYONE say, "Take her guards away AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. It will BE VERY DANGEROUS." I'd welcome a clip of anyone other than Trump saying it. Please! At at least your post will help explain to those who don't know Sarah*H when she predicted what she knew someone would say.
It doesn't matter the exact words. Only the common analogy matters. I think you're way overreading things here.
I watched your clip above. It's not a joke. It's equivalent to someone saying, "I can fly." And then someone else says, "Well, jump off a cliff then and see how well that works out for you." They're not being violent and hoping that person will die by actually jumping off a cliff. What they're saying is don't be an idiot. Hillary would be an idiot to take away her bodyguards, she needs protection, and we would be idiots for allowing Hillary to take away our protection. Let's not be idiots.
That's what I get from this.
Anyone who thinks Hillary wants to take their guns away isn't the sharpest crayon in the box. And is easily led by the nose by the NRA and Trump, believing their lies over what Hillary actually says and advocates. Let's not be idiots by believing blatant lies. So, Donald Trump is NOT saying "let's see how that works for you" in response to what Hillary has said, because she has never called for taking guns away. He is, On HIS OWN and for NO REASON, calling her guards to disarm. Gleefully reflecting on how dangerous that would be. To me, that is advocating violence. Let's not be idiots and allow Trump and the cowards who run the NRA to lie unchallenged.
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Kath
Full Member
Posts: 446
Jun 26, 2014 12:15:31 GMT
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Post by Kath on Sept 18, 2016 18:39:36 GMT
I think we do ourselves a disfavor when we allow ourselves to believe that because others don't see eye to eye with us on some issues that they are not as intelligent as we are.
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Post by anxiousmom on Sept 18, 2016 19:06:20 GMT
But isn't part of the problem broader (this season) right now because of the incredible divisiveness that we are experiencing?
It might be an old discussion, but right now, at this time, we are living during a time were people are angry. Whereas before, the broad sweeping vague comments are now being interpreted in a way that that they may not have been prior. There are such strong feelings on both sides and we interpret the comments through our own prisms of beliefs-and those broad comments are being interpreted in a VERY negative way. And believing them.
If we, a group of women who are fairly well educated and paying attention can't agree on what the comments are really supposed to mean, how the people who are only listening to sound bites, reading tweets, or otherwise not researching the information they see supposed to extrapolate what the real meaning is?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 18, 2016 19:10:51 GMT
I think we do ourselves a disfavor when we allow ourselves to believe that because others don't see eye to eye with us on some issues that they are not as intelligent as we are.
In this case, it's not just a matter of a difference of opinion. It is Trump himself stating those words. He is running for president. Common sense of anyone would concur that he is advocating violence by what he said. He lies. He's been called out in it numerous times. That is NOT an opinion, it's fact. That is what Elaine is saying! You can vote for or like who you want, but when it comes to these whopper of lies, outrageous statements, blatant violence that Trump spouts off on a daily basis that are easily proven to be untrue more often than not, and has to be interpreted to what he was supposed to mean by his camp, there in lies the issue. Personalities aside, knowing that he has literally no plan for anything, nothing he has put forth to this day from this past year on any policy, plan, ideas or even anything logical, it sure does strike me as odd and unbelievable that any intelligent person would vote for him. You want changes in your party ?? Focus on your congress people. No term limits. Abuses of the system. Pay for play.
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Post by monklady123 on Sept 18, 2016 19:11:54 GMT
I guess I have missed the part in the 2nd amendment that states that gun ownership/ammo/licenses, etc. should be made affordable to all citizens. What's the cap? Maybe I need to do some research and polish up on my 2nd amendment knowledge. Truly, this argument makes no sense to me. Someone's "right" to be able to easily afford guns and ammo should never trump my child's ability to survive her day at kindergarten. I subbed the other day in 2nd grade, when we had a lockdown drill. This was the real thing -- a real drill I mean, when the police come to the school -- not just the practice we'd had twice earlier in the week. This is the one where the police run through the school and BANG on every door to make sure they're all locked and that no one makes noise. SaveSave
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 20:45:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2016 19:20:20 GMT
I think we do ourselves a disfavor when we allow ourselves to believe that because others don't see eye to eye with us on some issues that they are not as intelligent as we are.
There is a reason for the old saying "There is one in every crowd". Ardent Trump supporters listen to his rhetoric and there is a very good chance one or more will take him meaning/suggestion literally. And there is also a good chance Trump means exactly what he says in spite of what he says afterwards after his campaign talks to him. An example is when he said President Obama is the founder of ISIL. He kept going on and on about that and was given a chance to walk away from the claim in an interview with a conservative talking head and he didn't. It wasn't until the comments got negative responses and I guess he finally listened to folks in his campaign that he walked away from the comment by saying he was being sarcastic. But then followed up by saying " but not that sarcastic". There is no guestion that there are those who disagree with us are just as intelligent as we are. But it's extremely shortsighted not believe that there are those on both sides of an issued that aren't the brightest bulb on the block. And it's these individuals you need to be careful in what you say. Especially when it's being said by someone like Trump who is running for president.
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Post by elaine on Sept 18, 2016 19:31:03 GMT
I think we do ourselves a disfavor when we allow ourselves to believe that because others don't see eye to eye with us on some issues that they are not as intelligent as we are.
You mean when you were insinuating I and other Hillary supporters were idiots? or that the people who believe the lies that the NRA and Trump spew forth readily about Hilary's stance on guns, rather than reading/watching what she ACTUALLY says, are intelligent independent thinkers? It isn't about a difference of opinion, it is about believing facts vs. believing lies that are easily discredited.
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Kath
Full Member
Posts: 446
Jun 26, 2014 12:15:31 GMT
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Post by Kath on Sept 18, 2016 19:54:34 GMT
I think we do ourselves a disfavor when we allow ourselves to believe that because others don't see eye to eye with us on some issues that they are not as intelligent as we are.
You mean when you were insinuating I and other Hillary supporters were idiots?
At no time did I say that you and other Hillary supporters are idiots. Again, an example of overreading, misinterpreting and applying motive to that which simply does not exist on my end.
I was attempting to explain the way Trump's message likely came across to his supporters given my perspective having grown up in the gun/conservative culture of America. This is my world and the people he is speaking to are my family, my friends, my culture, my neighbors. I feel like I get this. I may not get everything about Trump or why he says or acts in the way he does, but I get the people he talks to and I know why they respond the way they do and they are not unintelligent people. Many of them are quite bright, very motivated, very compassionate, very patriotic, a lot of veterans, police, firefighters, blue-collared workers, and, yes, a few of them might be a bit crazy, but there's crazy everywhere. Long before Donald Trump. I kind of believe all of us have a bit of crazy inside of us somewhere.
These people represent America in all of its glorious differences. The polls have Donald and Hillary neck and neck. Half of our fellow Americans are considering voting for Donald Trump and each one has a different story about why. Let's not do the disservice of comparing them to dull crayons in a coloring box.
I have no dog in this fight. What will be, will be.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,661
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Sept 18, 2016 20:07:29 GMT
You mean when you were insinuating I and other Hillary supporters were idiots?
At no time did I say that you and other Hillary supporters are idiots. Again, an example of overreading, misinterpreting and applying motive to that which simply does not exist on my end.
I was attempting to explain the way Trump's message likely came across to his supporters given my perspective having grown up in the gun/conservative culture of America. This is my world and the people he is speaking to are my family, my friends, my culture, my neighbors. I feel like I get this. I may not get everything about Trump or why he says or acts in the way he does, but I get the people he talks to and I know why they respond the way they do and they are not unintelligent people. Many of them are quite bright, very motivated, very compassionate, very patriotic, a lot of veterans, police, firefighters, blue-collared workers, and, yes, a few of them might be a bit crazy, but there's crazy everywhere. Long before Donald Trump. I kind of believe all of us have a bit of crazy inside of us somewhere.
These people represent America in all of its glorious differences. The polls have Donald and Hillary neck and neck. Half of our fellow Americans are considering voting for Donald Trump and each one has a different story about why. Let's not do the disservice of comparing them to dull crayons in a coloring box.
I have no dog in this fight. What will be, will be.
Theses are also my people. But this year is different. I'm seeing an "Ugliness" that I have not seen before. Some of the opinions that were hidden in years past, have been brought to the surface. Trump in not bring out the good in people.
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Post by mollycoddle on Sept 18, 2016 20:29:30 GMT
You mean when you were insinuating I and other Hillary supporters were idiots?
At no time did I say that you and other Hillary supporters are idiots. Again, an example of overreading, misinterpreting and applying motive to that which simply does not exist on my end.
I was attempting to explain the way Trump's message likely came across to his supporters given my perspective having grown up in the gun/conservative culture of America. This is my world and the people he is speaking to are my family, my friends, my culture, my neighbors. I feel like I get this. I may not get everything about Trump or why he says or acts in the way he does, but I get the people he talks to and I know why they respond the way they do and they are not unintelligent people. Many of them are quite bright, very motivated, very compassionate, very patriotic, a lot of veterans, police, firefighters, blue-collared workers, and, yes, a few of them might be a bit crazy, but there's crazy everywhere. Long before Donald Trump. I kind of believe all of us have a bit of crazy inside of us somewhere.
These people represent America in all of its glorious differences. The polls have Donald and Hillary neck and neck. Half of our fellow Americans are considering voting for Donald Trump and each one has a different story about why. Let's not do the disservice of comparing them to dull crayons in a coloring box.
I have no dog in this fight. What will be, will be.
I have one foot in each world. I was raised by conservative parents, in a very small 'river' town in Ohio. I went to a rural school. The folks that I grew up with are very conservative. And now I live in a Trump stronghold. I am familiar with the analogy that you were talking about. It is indeed very common. But my problem is that a Presidential candidate said it. Many people have never heard that before, and will not get the common meaning. It will be misconstrued. It already has been.
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