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Post by mcscrapper on Nov 19, 2016 15:51:49 GMT
I cannot even fathom what you are going through or how you may feel.
I am also a very forgiving person but that doesn't mean I am forgetting nor condoning your behavior. It sounds like you are putting a lot of work into your own healing. I hope this goes as you have planned and that you get your closure.
One of my mother's very good friends was almost killed by her ex. He shot her right in the throat and paralyzed her for life. Her daughter saw the whole thing happen and she went through a similar program to help HER cope with what he had done to her mother. It was not easy for her at all as she was a young teen to young adult when all of this happened. I do think seeing him in prison was a lot harder for her than she thought at the time but she did recognize the need to face him and tell him her feelings. It was very cathartic for her after she went through all of the stages of grief all over again. I guess I'm telling you this so you can be prepared for going through some anger and grief all over again if that happens. I'm quite sure your therapist and the program has given you all of this information already. You are a lot stronger than most could ever imagine having to be. I will pray for you and your healing through this process.
m
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Post by disneypal on Nov 19, 2016 16:01:16 GMT
I can't imagine how difficult it has been for you to get to a place of forgiveness, that is good that you have been able to do so. I was about to suggest that your DD film you as if you are talking to him and show him the video but as I started typing, I realized that she probably isn't able to take her phone in when visiting him. Instead, I suggest you write him a letter. You can find out through DD if he received it.
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,662
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on Nov 19, 2016 16:07:54 GMT
Is he remorseful? In my Divorce Care group, it was pointed out that reaching a point of forgiveness is what's important - it's about how you feel, and you don't necessarily have to tell the other person. I don't know what reaction you're expecting from him, but prepared for possible anger and blame.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Nov 19, 2016 16:17:18 GMT
I am glad to hear you are working with a therapist. After what you have been through it is a miracle you can forgive. I understand if you need to do what you need to do to move forward. I wish you all the best. You are a much stronger woman than I am. I don't know if I could face him after what that monster did to you.
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Post by scrapmaven on Nov 19, 2016 16:53:53 GMT
I support you doing the healthiest and most loving thing for yourself. If he never hears forgiveness then that's his consequence for doing something so heinous to you. This is a choice best made w/your therapist and your heart. Just know that if you can't talk to him and choose not to write a letter the most important thing is that you love yourself and know that you are not in any way to blame for not forgiving your ex. It's all about what's best for your physical and emotional well being. Love yourself and treat yourself well. Then choose.
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eleezybeth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,784
Jun 28, 2014 20:42:01 GMT
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Post by eleezybeth on Nov 19, 2016 17:10:44 GMT
I get what you are trying to do. I am however concerned that you seem to be giving him the power of your forgiveness. What if he tells you to fuck off and he should have killed you? Then what? Are you back in that space? You are expecting him to just hear you - did that ever happen when you were married or during the abuse? Is this about having the last word? For you or him? I appreciate wholeheartedly the need for closure for you but you do not need any interaction with him to make that happen. I'd like you to really get to the bottom of why that physical contact is necessary. You do not need him to agree, own, accept or have any opinion on why you are feeling forgiveness. Trust yourself enough to give forgiveness without contact.
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Post by runner5 on Nov 19, 2016 18:59:27 GMT
My dad was physically and verbally abusive to my sister and me. I didn't see him for 20 years after I became a mom. Then I hit a time where every time I tried to pray, I started thinking of him. I finally prayed the prayer that helped me stop smoking when I was 19 - "Lord I'm willing to be made willing - that's all I can do."
It was enough. He had a horrific medical event and was in a coma for 6 weeks. I decided this was the way I was meant to visit him and DH gave me incredible support making sure I could back out any time and that I was never alone with him. After my dad recovered from that event, I started to visit him very briefly on Thanksgiving and Christmas. It helped me a lot to know I had not only forgiven him but had grown to the point that I could draw healthy boundaries. I'm so glad I did. In the end, I was the only sibling with time to help care for him when he got cancer (and 3 other terrible lung diseases simultaneously). Even then, he woke angry and went into his wife's room with a balled fist. That was it for her. She left him and I was there to protect her while she waited for her son to come take her away. She never moved back (she was in her 70's).
Through it all, I could see how sick he was - mentally not just physically. It helped me so much to really see how he shaped me and it helped me grow stronger and kinder to others. I could see things my teen self could have never understood - that he set us up and then raged at us. He was so cruel and unpredictable and completely wrapped up in himself. I don't think he even had the capacity to understand how to love and care for another person.
I'm just sharing to encourage you if this is something you feel you need to do. I think forgiving in your own heart is enough but I'm so glad I had the experiences I had as an adult in visiting him. That's what truly broke his control over me. I would never encourage anyone either way - to visit or not visit. I think every case is probably different. I'm just speaking out as one voice who was helped by facing her abuser and also helped by forgiving. I never told him I forgave him. I just knew that I had. You couldn't have that kind of conversation with my dad. I don't remember one time when you could just be real with him.
I was so glad to read that you are in a good place now with great support. I remember reading updates from you before and it makes me so happy that things are better for you now.
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,355
Aug 9, 2014 23:13:22 GMT
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Post by DEX on Nov 19, 2016 19:06:18 GMT
I don't want to squash your feelings of needing this for closure... But the rules of victims not being able to visit the abuser are there for a reason... I hooe this goes the way you want... but in the process i hope it doesn't do more damage to you... And if you knew me, you'd know that I can live with extending a kindness and regretting it, but not the opposite. I am so glad you are working with a therapist. My wish would be that you are working on co-dependency issues. Rather than feeling that you "need" this closure, I would hope that you did not feel that need. People have a right to just say, "I'm done!" and walk away. No looking back, no caring about how, someone, who hurt you, feels. By your meeting with him you are working too hard to make him feel better because you "forgive" him. Rather, I would like to see you spend all that energy on yourself. What do YOU want to do with your life? Focus on activities for yourself now. Try not to do something because you feel it is the "right thing to do". You need healing after such a traumatizing event. Please take care of yourself first. You owe him nothing.
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Post by jamielynn on Nov 19, 2016 19:06:27 GMT
I have someone close to me who was abused by a partner.
I think you should wash your hands of him and his issues and move on with things that bring you joy in your life.
He got exactly what I can only dream will come of the abuser I know. Karma at its finest, jail time, and a long, miserable, drawn out death, at a place we know his victim is safe, and with no way to verbally communicate, yet all the time in the world to sit rotting and thinking about the unspeakable things he's done.
I hope you can find closure in your very own way and joy in all you do.
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Post by duchess on Nov 19, 2016 19:21:37 GMT
You can still forgive him without seeing him, if that's what you want. But you have to do what you feel is right for you. I wish you peace.
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Post by cannmom on Nov 19, 2016 19:26:31 GMT
I would write him a letter and say what you want to say and be done with it. It's only unfinished if you let it be. You control how you feel about the situation. it sounds like you are fixating on finding a way to see him. Maybe you want him to see how well you are doing without him. Seriously, I would work on letting it go.
I hope you are able to find peace with whatever you do.
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Post by pelirroja on Nov 19, 2016 19:29:53 GMT
I remember that you had posted about this exact issue somewhat recently and the consensus was that this was not a good idea. I think it still isn't.
I'm going to give you some tough-love advice that comes from Martha Stout PhD's book "The Sociopath Next Door". I'm hoping you will listen and hopefully you get clarity without getting p*ssed off at me. I'm telling you this with the very best of intentions to keep you physically safe, mentally safe and emotionally safe. It is the same advice I would give to anyone who has had DV perpetrated upon them. Notice I didn't use the word "victim" because you are above such labels, you are a strong and resilient lady. ((hugs))
From the book:
The best way to protect yourself from a sociopath is to avoid him and to refuse any kind of contact or communication.
Question your tendency to pity too easily.
Accept that some people literally have no conscience.
and most importantly:
Do not try to redeem the unredeemable.
For some reason you appear to be h*llbent on being the bigger and better person, to forgive the unforgivable. I'm not sure what you're expecting out of this event. I'd also like to remind you that there is a "no contact" rule put in place for a very good reason: you cannot see the danger you are walking into. I don't care if he's in a wheelchair, pathetic, misunderstood, etc. Protect your head, your mind, your heart and avoid this sociopath. He can bring nothing but bad and evil into your world, and you are worth more than setting yourself up to be manipulated. A single afternoon with this criminal could un-do all the hard work you have put into getting better and stronger. Don't do this. Please.
If he's in horrible shape, remind yourself, he put you in horrible shape and seemed to have no conscience about it. Personally, if he is in a deplorable horrendous situation, I feel karma and justice have truly been served.
I apologize if I sound cold, heartless or bitchy. I want you safe and sound and this is a horrible idea, imho.
I wish you peace: you sure do need it.
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Post by peasapie on Nov 19, 2016 19:34:50 GMT
I'd write a letter and send it with DD, as long as it's not personal enough to make her uncomfortable. I am pretty sure I wouldn't bother going through all that red tape just to tell him he's forgiven, though I see where you are coming from as far as closure for yourself. Sending a letter either with DD or through the mail is not allowed. ANY communication must be through and approved by the program I'm working with. I've never experienced what you did, but your post has made me think about it. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I hope he lives long enough for you to find a way toward whatever closure you need. If nothing else, perhaps your daughter can read your letter to him when she visits. Wishing you peace. SaveSave
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Post by kernriver on Nov 19, 2016 19:34:55 GMT
Wow. No other words come to mind. Maybe later.
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Post by CarolinaGirl71 on Nov 19, 2016 19:47:23 GMT
I too agree that it is his karma getting him. I'm glad you're staying strong. Will they allow you to send him a letter? That may help you. If nothing else maybe write a letter, then consider sending it if they will let you. Could your dd read it to him? That was my first thought, too. If you send him a letter, you can extend your forgiveness to him without giving him another opportunity to hurt you. Who knows how he may respond to you in person, especially if he blames you for his incarcerceration. I'm not saying it's your fault in any way, his actions put him where he is - but in his mind, he may blame you, and it may end up being hurtful to you again. IMHO, I'd write him a letter, forgive him for the past, and have no present or future with him. (((Hugs))) - I remember your story and what a hard situation this is for you.
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Post by gizzy on Nov 19, 2016 19:48:46 GMT
I wish you peace with whatever you decide. I'm glad that you have a group of professionals at your side.
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Post by chaosisapony on Nov 19, 2016 20:01:41 GMT
I understand where you're coming from and I hope you are able to get the closure you need through this program. Good luck.
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J u l e e
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Nov 19, 2016 20:22:50 GMT
I decided to delete my response. It was based on my own experience, personality, etc. You are working with professionals who are trained to help you, so my experience and thoughts and "what I would do" are not even necessary. I wish you the best! (((hugs)))
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Post by Delta Dawn on Nov 19, 2016 20:32:25 GMT
You need to forgive him? After all that he put you through it's you doing the forgiving?
Are you religious or spiritual? What about going to see your minister, priest, rabbi, imam, priestess or whomever your religion gives counselling and tell them. They will pray with you and can hopefully give you closure. I honest think you are setting yourself up for panic attacks in the future. If you aren't religious then just ignore this advice.
The legal system checks and balances in place to protect you. You not being able to visit him IN PRISON is protecting you from future upset and possible problems. While it may sound cruel and mean to keep you from being able to do this, I have to say I am on the side of the legal system.
If you really need to have him hear you forgive him, tell your daughter to tell him. You can't write him a letter he can receive so I would entrust your daughter to tell him this information.
Blessings. xoxox
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 10, 2024 17:54:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 20:43:09 GMT
My thoughts:
1. Forgiveness is something you do for yourself in order to move on and have closure. IMO, you don't need to see him in order to do that.
2. I agree that sending a verbal confirmation of your forgiveness through your daughter would still let him know that you have forgiven him, if that's what's important to you. Not a direct message of "Mom said to tell you you're forgiven," but more of a "Dad, in talking to mom over the past year, she has made it clear that she forgives you."
3. From reading your followups in this thread, it seems like (IMO) you seeing him in such a state would just traumatize you further. He is not a victim. Whatever has happened to him has been his own doing.
IMO, you'd be better served to keep working through your guilt and forgiveness with professional therapists. I hope you're able to find some peace with the whole situation. You deserve at least that.
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Post by pierkiss on Nov 19, 2016 21:03:11 GMT
You are a better person than I am. I'm pretty sure if my husband ever did even half of that shit to me I would have zero problem leaving him to rot away in jail alone.
I can understand you wanting closure by telling him that you forgive him. I've been assaulted. Being able to forgive is incredibly empowering. It's a part of taking your whole life back. I get it. (I still have not achieved that). What I d not understand is why you cannot forgive him by simply writing a letter to him and laying it all on the table for him to read. Do you think it will not bring the same level of satisfaction as doing it in person?
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Nov 19, 2016 22:54:34 GMT
Why would you want to tell him that it was ok for him to do that to you? Why? Because telling him you forgive him is doing just that. Let him die without your forgiveness, please. You really want him to shuffle off this mortal coil with a smirk on his face knowing he got you good! That he had the last laugh? This is not something you should be giving any thought to.
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Post by lesserknownpea on Nov 20, 2016 2:08:49 GMT
Thank you all very much for ALL these posts. They all bring up good points.
I may not come back to this thread for a few days, I'm actually at the hospital because my youngest DD is actually in labor with my grandson !!!!
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Post by LisaDV on Nov 20, 2016 2:32:55 GMT
Congrats on your grandson! Best wishes for mom and baby.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 10, 2024 17:54:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 2:36:06 GMT
Congratulations on your new grandson! Enjoy that baby and make some happy family memories And don't forget to post baby photos when you get a chance.
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Post by lesserknownpea on Nov 20, 2016 14:21:06 GMT
Baby boy was born healthy at 2:46 this morning Both healthy and beautiful. 6 lbs 8 oz.
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Post by anxiousmom on Nov 20, 2016 14:24:26 GMT
Baby boy was born healthy at 2:46 this morning Both healthy and beautiful. 6 lbs 8 oz. How precious!! And that should be the focus for a while. *big fluffy hearts of love*
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Post by peanutterbutter on Nov 20, 2016 15:43:14 GMT
Congrats on the grandbaby! I hope you find peace and closure for yourself however you are able to achieve it.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Nov 20, 2016 17:51:25 GMT
I get what you are trying to do. I am however concerned that you seem to be giving him the power of your forgiveness. What if he tells you to fuck off and he should have killed you? Then what? Are you back in that space? You are expecting him to just hear you - did that ever happen when you were married or during the abuse? Is this about having the last word? For you or him? I appreciate wholeheartedly the need for closure for you but you do not need any interaction with him to make that happen. I'd like you to really get to the bottom of why that physical contact is necessary. You do not need him to agree, own, accept or have any opinion on why you are feeling forgiveness. Trust yourself enough to give forgiveness without contact. I understood that the man is ill & unable to speak. I could be wrong, though.
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Nov 24, 2016 9:36:29 GMT
What an adorable baby. Congratulations grandma. And what a lovely thought...here is your future, right in front of you. Here is where your energy needs to be. Hope you can find peace with it all.
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