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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 9, 2017 2:15:06 GMT
Where in the world did I say the law was no big deal - I specifically said the big deal was moving away from family sponsorship and said in my post that this bill had no support in the legislature!?!? As I said earlier, and I'll reiterate - this bizarre preoccupation with the specific requirements is utterly ignoring that the employment based visas ALREADY had more stringent and difficult requirements (sponsored by a specific company for example) and few if any would qualify. There is no actual discussion about the benefits or harm of moving away from family sponsorship which IS the big dramatic change and secondarily if these are better or worse requirements to the EXISTING employment requirements. As well as pointing out that most other countries use a similar "point" or merit based system. There's just seems to be a whole lot of hand wringing that now America doesn't want me - if that's the depth of discussion people are interested in go for it. Oh and as a aside - don't assume your family can bring you over - it pretty much depends on where you currently are located - there's several countries where the wait exceeds 15 years - which is another issue I have with our current system, but if you think it's perfect - no problem (see how fun it is when others put words in your mouth). That's fine and I'm happy to read more about your thoughts on this subject, but I was responding to what you said to me, not everything you said in the entire thread. I'm sorry if I missed something important. I think this is one of those issues (like many) which has no chance of meaningful progress because no one wants to give Trump any chance of signing any meaningful legislation - no matter who actually wrote it and whether it does any good. But for arguments sake - I do think we need to seriously look at revamping our immigration policies. I think the whole cutting the number of visas in half over a decade is asinine. But DO think we need to give more weight to immigrants which we feel we need economically instead of based on family sponsorship. We should still allow immediate family, but should rethink such a high percentage of our visas being devoted to extended family - with the caveat that those who have played by the rules and waited a years and in some cases a decade should absolutely not be thrown to the wayside. Basically flipped the 2/3 to family sponsorship 1/3 to employment. The number and skill set should be tied to what is actually beneficial for our economy. I do think there's a need for STEM graduates - I see that on a daily basis - but am certainly open to expanding that to whatever skills are needed with the other caveat of protecting American workers where appropriate. But as I said, it's academic as I think there's a snowball's chance in hell of any meaningful legislation on immigration moving forward.
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Post by redhead32 on Aug 9, 2017 2:38:23 GMT
I had a J.D. and am currently in school to get a 2nd B.S. so I can teach high school (long story). I don't have enough points to enter. Nor did my husband, who also has a J.D. but has worked in IT for a university for 15+ years. And of course, my very bright, 4.0 10th grader that is pretty good at STEM didn't make the cut either.
I posted this quiz on my FB page, and said, "Interesting. I don't have enough points." I live in a conservative, pro-trump area. When I post random things on FB, I usually get from 20-100 likes (depending upon the topic, of course). Not a single person commented or liked the post.
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Post by laureljean on Aug 9, 2017 3:37:51 GMT
Me neither. Not rich enough.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,749
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Aug 9, 2017 3:58:25 GMT
age...0 wealth...0 no gold medal. damn. 0 no nobel peace prize 0 less than $1.35 million... English is my 1st language, I got that going for me. But yeah, I'm out. I've been deemed worthless. nice.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,531
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Aug 9, 2017 4:01:34 GMT
age...0 wealth...0 no gold medal. damn. 0 no nobel peace prize 0 less than $1.35 million... English is my 1st language, I got that going for me. But yeah, I'm out. I've been deemed worthless. nice. Ugh, me too. I think we're in good company tho. SaveSave
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Post by eversograceful1 on Aug 9, 2017 4:41:58 GMT
I got 30
I have a Masters but not in the fields mentioned.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Aug 9, 2017 5:18:52 GMT
Nope. My M.Ed. isn't a preferred field. Too old and I don't have enough to invest. I'm working on the Nobel and Olympics, but I doubt that's going to happen. You know what's crazy? The people who DO have these qualifications aren't likely to want to live or work here. If I've got the money and education and can live elsewhere without a crazy person running the country, I'm going to stay there. This is a way to basically cut off legal immigration to undesirables, but a lot of people who SHOULD be qualified to get in. Too bad the jobs available to fill are things like agricultural work. Not too many people with an MS wanting to do that job. France has already called out for US scientists, researchers, educators and innovators to come to France. People with the brains are LEAVING the US, not trying to come in. So far the H1-B visa process doesn't support your assertion. April 1st was the window for applying and the cap was exceeded in 5 days. 199,000 applied and all require a bachelor's degree and 20,000 are reserved for those with advanced degrees. All for those with at least 12 years experience in specialized fields. Ahh.. yes the H-1B visa. I read an interesting article on the monopoly that outsourcing companies now hold on those, recently. They're not really what they used to be. H-1B visas
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Post by cookiemum on Aug 9, 2017 6:33:14 GMT
This reminds me in a lot of ways of Australia's immigration policy when trying to get Permanent Residency - the Green Card equivalent. We were sponsored by DH's job which simplified everything. Otherwise I would have needed to be the primary as I have a Masters in Elementary Education. His PhD would have earned less points. We also would have needed to do it before 35 as you lose a lot of points as you get older. In order to retire here you have to show a certain amount of funds and in order to get citizenship as a retiree 50% of your children have to live in Australia. But, if you are an elite athlete? No worries mate, you're fast tracked for PR and citizenship and everything!
FTR, using my current stats I got 20 points vs 28 using the age we were when we moved to Australia. So, I wouldn't be moving to Trumplandia any time soon.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Aug 9, 2017 11:23:01 GMT
So far the H1-B visa process doesn't support your assertion. April 1st was the window for applying and the cap was exceeded in 5 days. 199,000 applied and all require a bachelor's degree and 20,000 are reserved for those with advanced degrees. All for those with at least 12 years experience in specialized fields. Ahh.. yes the H-1B visa. I read an interesting article on the monopoly that outsourcing companies now hold on those, recently. They're not really what they used to be. H-1B visasA lot has happened since April 1.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 9, 2017 11:33:30 GMT
Not even close. I'm retired, small pension, don't plan on investing any more, started working right out of high school at my job that I retired from (no college degrees, just a 2-year certificate program in my field) and I can't walk and chew gum at the same time, nevermind the Olympics. WTH does the Olympics have to do with it anyway? Well, you know Trump only likes "winners"! It's part of his (and Bannon's) plan to only cultivate and support what they deem as the "right" type of people. Winners, white, viral, rich, and worthy of being. Their version of creating a society of "stepford wives"
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 9, 2017 13:31:00 GMT
So far the H1-B visa process doesn't support your assertion. April 1st was the window for applying and the cap was exceeded in 5 days. 199,000 applied and all require a bachelor's degree and 20,000 are reserved for those with advanced degrees. All for those with at least 12 years experience in specialized fields. Ahh.. yes the H-1B visa. I read an interesting article on the monopoly that outsourcing companies now hold on those, recently. They're not really what they used to be. H-1B visasInteresting article - thanks for sharing. Like most things - there's many different sides of the story and things are never as easy and straightforward as any campaign slogan. My husband would definitely be an advocate for continuing some type of program to bring in highly trained engineers as he has had open reqs for as long as a year where he simply cannot find a qualified person. But, I am absolutely sensitive to those who have seen the ugly side of abuses where they've seen their job outsourced to a lower paid foreign worker.
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Post by lucyg on Aug 9, 2017 13:42:18 GMT
Ahh.. yes the H-1B visa. I read an interesting article on the monopoly that outsourcing companies now hold on those, recently. They're not really what they used to be. H-1B visasInteresting article - thanks for sharing. Like most things - there's many different sides of the story and things are never as easy and straightforward as any campaign slogan. My husband would definitely be an advocate for continuing some type of program to bring in highly trained engineers as he has had open reqs for as long as a year where he simply cannot find a qualified person. But, I am absolutely sensitive to those who have seen the ugly side of abuses where they've seen their job outsourced to a lower paid foreign worker. And I've seen the grapes rotting on the vines when ICE cracks down, migrant workers can't get in, and no American is desperate enough to want to pick them.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 8:28:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 13:54:12 GMT
Interesting article - thanks for sharing. Like most things - there's many different sides of the story and things are never as easy and straightforward as any campaign slogan. My husband would definitely be an advocate for continuing some type of program to bring in highly trained engineers as he has had open reqs for as long as a year where he simply cannot find a qualified person. But, I am absolutely sensitive to those who have seen the ugly side of abuses where they've seen their job outsourced to a lower paid foreign worker. And I've seen the grapes rotting on the vines when ICE cracks down, migrant workers can't get in, and no American is desperate enough to want to pick them. I recently saw a news story that said there aren't enough construction crews anymore either.
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Aug 9, 2017 14:10:11 GMT
Hope he doesn't start deporting Americans who don't live up to his expectations. I only got 18 out of 30. Wonder how many he would get?I know he his Master's is from Wharton, so assume it's a business degree without a dual degree in a STEM field, so only giving him credit for his bachelor's: 6 Job over $155,000: 13 Investments of at least $1.8 million: 12 points Gives him 31 without even having to debate his English ability. Thank goodness he has all that money! Shows that he doesn't want the lower income to have access to the US.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 9, 2017 14:47:53 GMT
And I've seen the grapes rotting on the vines when ICE cracks down, migrant workers can't get in, and no American is desperate enough to want to pick them. I recently saw a news story that said there aren't enough construction crews anymore either. The laborers union in NJ has accepted members coming from Portugal since at least the 80's. Apparently lots of great masons at the time. But where do you expect to get laborers and equipment operators if society almost insists that everyone goes to college after high school. You don't go to college to become a crane operator, that's not a skill your going to learn in a classroom. And it is a skill. And it's a decent paying job. I have an acquaintance who has insisted her son go to college when he is so much more skilled in other ways. Kid is unhappy, not doing well, bored out of his mind, and as a result partying too much. Does not want to be there. He is 19 now I told him cut the cord and live his own life - she will eventually accept it. He is too afraid of her complaints. Whatever. But I digress. Yes, the labor & equipment operator unions are seeing issues getting new *qualified* people. Apparently society in its 'wisdom' has directed mostly less than qualified people towards these jobs. Some think these are 'low skilled' jobs when in reality these people need to be highly skilled or capable of becoming highly skilled. It's a great disservice to both these people and to society to present these jobs as 'low skill'.
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,408
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Aug 9, 2017 15:33:33 GMT
And I've seen the grapes rotting on the vines when ICE cracks down, migrant workers can't get in, and no American is desperate enough to want to pick them. I recently saw a news story that said there aren't enough construction crews anymore either. The Gulf coast shrimp boats are trying to hire more American workers, and the vast majority of them are quitting after 2 weeks. Most of them (us) aren't willing to do the hard, dirty, unrelenting work that it requires, even if we need the money.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 9, 2017 15:49:58 GMT
I know he his Master's is from Wharton, so assume it's a business degree without a dual degree in a STEM field, so only giving him credit for his bachelor's: 6 Job over $155,000: 13 Investments of at least $1.8 million: 12 points Gives him 31 without even having to debate his English ability. He does not have a master's degree. Please do not give him more credit than he deserves. He does enough of that on his own. Ah, thank-you. You beat me to it.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 9, 2017 16:55:00 GMT
He does not have a master's degree. Please do not give him more credit than he deserves. He does enough of that on his own. Ah, thank-you. You beat me to it. thanks for reminding me - I meant to acknowledge my mistake when lucyg mentioned it and became sidetracked on other issues. I had heard Wharton and as pretty much everyone I know from there received an MBA - I assumed and we all know how dangerous that is....
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 9, 2017 17:01:34 GMT
And as I am sitting here trying to find an electrician who doesn't have a month waiting list - we are desperately short on electricians as well.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 9, 2017 17:26:32 GMT
Ah, thank-you. You beat me to it. thanks for reminding me - I meant to acknowledge my mistake when lucyg mentioned it and became sidetracked on other issues. I had heard Wharton and as pretty much everyone I know from there received an MBA - I assumed and we all know how dangerous that is.... Honestly, I assumed that too. I only googled it after a discussion with my mother.
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Post by Zee on Aug 9, 2017 17:42:12 GMT
I guess Melania and I are going to have to ride our husbands' coat tails into the US!
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Post by icequeen on Aug 10, 2017 1:41:01 GMT
Nope. Barely registered on the scale. And what the hell , Nobel winners? Olympic winners? Billions to invest? No kidding. Not sure if Trump and his cronies would even qualify. SaveSave
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,643
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Aug 10, 2017 2:06:10 GMT
I've no doubt they would but as far as that questionnaire is they wouldn't be allowed in if they didn't have one lined up before they applied. Keeping out a highly regarded cancer doctor is just a specious argument. One can and should debate whether there should be such a heavy weight on STEM applicants, as well as the athletic/international award section, but the reality is it scientific or medical researchers would be utterly unaffected by this legislation. I think weighting towards STEM makes sense (although it would be nice if the US could produce its own STEM candidates), but I think there is also value in people who would come here to work in jobs that either Americans don't want to do or in areas where we face a shortage. I was listening to a Planet Money podcast that talked about what would have to happen for the economy to grow at the rate Trump proposes to offset the tax cuts and increasing immigration would be essential. Don't most (or maybe all?) countries have point systems for immigration? It makes sense to have some criteria, although obviously there is a lot of debate about what that criteria should be.
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Post by Skellinton on Aug 10, 2017 2:13:02 GMT
I don't qualify, my husband doesn't qualify either. Heck, my mom doesn't qualify either. Does Melania qualify? I really know nothing about her.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,643
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Aug 10, 2017 2:14:51 GMT
So far the H1-B visa process doesn't support your assertion. April 1st was the window for applying and the cap was exceeded in 5 days. 199,000 applied and all require a bachelor's degree and 20,000 are reserved for those with advanced degrees. All for those with at least 12 years experience in specialized fields. Ahh.. yes the H-1B visa. I read an interesting article on the monopoly that outsourcing companies now hold on those, recently. They're not really what they used to be. H-1B visasAhh.. yes the H-1B visa. I read an interesting article on the monopoly that outsourcing companies now hold on those, recently. They're not really what they used to be. H-1B visasInteresting article - thanks for sharing. Like most things - there's many different sides of the story and things are never as easy and straightforward as any campaign slogan. My husband would definitely be an advocate for continuing some type of program to bring in highly trained engineers as he has had open reqs for as long as a year where he simply cannot find a qualified person. But, I am absolutely sensitive to those who have seen the ugly side of abuses where they've seen their job outsourced to a lower paid foreign worker. I see both sides of the issue too. We've had similar problems at my workplace trying to fill positions, but I know there also have been abuses of the system. Like many things, it was a good idea in theory and probably upon first application, then some jerks had to muck it up.
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RedSquirrelUK
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,748
Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
Aug 2, 2014 13:03:45 GMT
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on Aug 10, 2017 9:55:14 GMT
The US would be a big, empty, echoing place, wouldn't it?
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