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Post by peasapie on Aug 28, 2017 11:32:44 GMT
Fox Sports has hired Michael Vick as a football commentator. How do you feel about that? There is a part of me that says he did his time and should be allowed to live his life, and another part that says I don't want to see him commenting on anything.
And then there is Colin Kaepernick, whose kneeling during the American national anthem in response to a seeming rash of black men being killed by white police officers has inspired all sorts of FB posts about why kneeling for the anthem is an insult to those who died in service to their country. (And about black-on-black crime in general.) Kaepernick has not yet been signed for the upcoming year, and there is some debate as to whether that is because of his talent or his politics.
Some say that if players can be fined for twerking in the end zone, why not for kneeling during the anthem. Again, my feelings are mixed, but generally I think you don't mix social protest with your work life. I cam see both sides, though. Since money usually leads in sports, I'm interested to see where this all goes.
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Post by christine58 on Aug 28, 2017 11:39:44 GMT
Kaepernick's not having a job has more to do with his lack of talent than anything else. He's not that good anymore.
Vick is a horrible individual. If I got convicted of a felony, I'd not have a job to come back to. I will not watch anything he commentates on.
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scrappinspidey2
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Aug 28, 2017 11:50:27 GMT
While what Michael Vick did was horrible and saddening, he appears to have learned from it. There are multiple cultures out there that see nothing wrong with animal fighting, something I have never understood, but it is there. He did his time, came back to the NFL and played well and from what I understand, stayed out of trouble He has come out and admitted he was wrong etc. By all accounts he has "learned his lesson." I don't honestly know how I feel about him being an announcer. I had a hard time watching him play the first year he was back; however, since he has come out and said he was wrong and stayed out of trouble, I'm not so anti Vick anymore. I do believe that people can learn from their mistakes and from all accounts it appears he has done so, but again you never fully know if they are or aren't.
Kaepernick is another thing all together. I have never believed his story about why he choose to sit during the anthem. Lets not forget he didn't start out as kneeling. He sat on a bench. The events of that day still lead me to believe he was throwing a temper tantrum and it had nothing to do with what he spun it into. He's quick on his feet in the mental department because he came up with something that got people distracted from his lack of talent and poor sportsman behavior. He then moved it to kneeling when it was quickly becoming a backlash regarding his lack of respect. He isn't being hired because he can't play. The 9ers were stuck with him due to the contract but thankfully he opted out on his own. There are teams who thrive on controversy and I believe they would have picked him up regardless if he could still play like he used to. His attitude is horrible, he is not a team player. These are problems if you want to be a QB.
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Nanner
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Post by Nanner on Aug 28, 2017 11:51:46 GMT
Kaepernick's not having a job has more to do with his lack of talent than anything else. He's not that good anymore. Vick is a horrible individual. If I got convicted of a felony, I'd not have a job to come back to. I will not watch anything he commentates on. Nor will I.
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ginacivey
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Post by ginacivey on Aug 28, 2017 12:39:08 GMT
Kaepernick's not having a job has more to do with his lack of talent than anything else. He's not that good anymore. Vick is a horrible individual. If I got convicted of a felony, I'd not have a job to come back to. I will not watch anything he commentates on. Nor will I. lots of sports stars commit crimes - get suspensions and go back to playing we watch them every sunday tbh - i'm more concerned with the wife beaters - 6 week suspensions vick and his crimes against dogs was horrible - but was it worse? gina
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lindas
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Post by lindas on Aug 28, 2017 12:54:16 GMT
I have no problem with Vick. He did his time, apologized, stayed out of trouble, and got a second chance to make himself a better person.
Kaepernick could have had a job but he thinks he's too good to be a backup. He was offered a one yr, $900,000 contract but turned it down, he want $9 to $10m and he's not worth that kind of money. I didn't buy his reason for taking a knee and I don't buy his "I'll stand for the anthem if hired" line either. People may have been able to overlook his kneeling but not the support of Castro and the police are pigs socks.
These people protesting for him to get a job need to understand that the teams are privately owned. The NFL can't force a team to hire him. He made his choices and now he has to live with them.
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Peamac
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Post by Peamac on Aug 28, 2017 12:59:21 GMT
Not sure how I feel about either of them. Yesterday I got a phone call to answer some survey questions. Most were about politics, but one or two were about Collin Kaepernick and if his actions made me more likely or less likely to watch NFL football. It seemed an odd question to put in there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 12:59:57 GMT
While what Michael Vick did was horrible and saddening, he appears to have learned from it. There are multiple cultures out there that see nothing wrong with animal fighting, something I have never understood, but it is there. He did his time, came back to the NFL and played well and from what I understand, stayed out of trouble He has come out and admitted he was wrong etc. By all accounts he has "learned his lesson." I don't honestly know how I feel about him being an announcer. I had a hard time watching him play the first year he was back; however, since he has come out and said he was wrong and stayed out of trouble, I'm not so anti Vick anymore. I do believe that people can learn from their mistakes and from all accounts it appears he has done so, but again you never fully know if they are or aren't. Kaepernick is another thing all together. I have never believed his story about why he choose to sit during the anthem. Lets not forget he didn't start out as kneeling. He sat on a bench. The events of that day still lead me to believe he was throwing a temper tantrum and it had nothing to do with what he spun it into. He's quick on his feet in the mental department because he came up with something that got people distracted from his lack of talent and poor sportsman behavior. He then moved it to kneeling when it was quickly becoming a backlash regarding his lack of respect. He isn't being hired because he can't play. The 9ers were stuck with him due to the contract but thankfully he opted out on his own. There are teams who thrive on controversy and I believe they would have picked him up regardless if he could still play like he used to. His attitude is horrible, he is not a team player. These are problems if you want to be a QB. This is pretty much how my dh explained the Kaepernick situation. People can claim it's politics all day long but the truth is he doesn't have the talent to support the controversy.
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Post by disneypal on Aug 28, 2017 13:16:44 GMT
Kaepernick doesn't stand for the national anthem because he says "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," ( Source). My first thought was well, how are you oppressed when you are making $11.9 million dollars for playing a sport? But I get that he is protesting for his race, not as an individual. However, that being said, while I don't agree with his showing disrespect for our country and honoring the flag and what it stands for, at the same time...I am glad that we live in a country and can stand up (or in his case kneel down) for a cause that he believes in...while I don't agree with him, I do agree with his right to do as he sees fit. Honestly, I believe if the media hadn't have given it so much attention, no one would have made a major deal of it. The reason for his not being signed this year, though, doesn't have to do with his (IMO) non-patriot statements, but rather he has to do with the fact that he just isn't a strong enough player. As for Michael Vick, it is awful what he did, but he did serve his time (almost 10 years ago now) and he truly seems to be reformed and regretful...he was an amazing quarterback at one point and I think he deserves another chance.
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used2scrap
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Post by used2scrap on Aug 28, 2017 13:26:05 GMT
I don't know, I just find that with the last years of controversies, the violent acts against women, the concussions, the teams demanding more and bigger stadiums, the amount of money involved, I just don't have any interest in watching anymore.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 28, 2017 15:12:06 GMT
I didn't like Kapernick before he sat, but people only want to believe it's because of his sitting. He is a player that isn't what he thinks he's worth.
I won't be watching Vick.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 28, 2017 15:19:17 GMT
I think that it is telling that people want to give Vick another chance but have nothing positive to say about Kaepernick. IMO, it is because people want him to remember his place as a black man. And that opinion is reinforced by seeing the comments on this subject, both on this thread and IRL and who is saying them. I believe that is why the poll that seems to be about politics would include questions about these two.
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Post by farmdpea on Aug 28, 2017 15:24:19 GMT
The reports of Vick are making waves on many a Facebook page. I haven't seen any of my friend mention Kapernick yet.
What Vick did was vile and disgusting, and I don't think he is fit for a job in the public eye. No great loss for me, but I don't intent to watch anything for which he is a commentator. Re: abuse of women, abuse of animals is very much linked to other types of abuse so I don't think it's a matter of comparing one to another.
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likescarrots
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Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
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Post by likescarrots on Aug 28, 2017 16:08:19 GMT
Kaepernick doesn't stand for the national anthem because he says "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," ( Source). My first thought was well, how are you oppressed when you are making $11.9 million dollars for playing a sport? But I get that he is protesting for his race, not as an individual. However, that being said, while I don't agree with his showing disrespect for our country and honoring the flag and what it stands for, at the same time...I am glad that we live in a country and can stand up (or in his case kneel down) for a cause that he believes in...while I don't agree with him, I do agree with his right to do as he sees fit. Honestly, I believe if the media hadn't have given it so much attention, no one would have made a major deal of it. The reason for his not being signed this year, though, doesn't have to do with his (IMO) non-patriot statements, but rather he has to do with the fact that he just isn't a strong enough player. As for Michael Vick, it is awful what he did, but he did serve his time (almost 10 years ago now) and he truly seems to be reformed and regretful...he was an amazing quarterback at one point and I think he deserves another chance. you realize that black people in this country can be oppressed regardless of their paycheck, right? James Blake, a professional tennis player with a net worth of 8 million dollars, was beaten by police in NYC. The police claim it was a case of mistaken identity, aka being in a rich neighborhood while black. Having money did not prevent this from happening.
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Post by njinkerbelle on Aug 28, 2017 16:19:26 GMT
I think both of them need a good lesson in compassion and citizenship and should perhaps spend some time over in Afganistan just so they experience the hardship all our fine men and women in the military are experiencing. Then we'll see how how hard life is for these privilege misfits.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 28, 2017 16:35:30 GMT
I think both of them need a good lesson in compassion and citizenship and should perhaps spend some time over in Afganistan just so they experience the hardship all our fine men and women in the military are experiencing. Then we'll see how how hard life is for these privilege misfits. In what way did CK not show compassion or citizenship? Isn't that exactly what he was doing? He was making a statement because of unjustices in our country. And doing it in a peaceful way. Being in the military is not the only way to show that you are a fine citizen. Nor does it automatically mean that you are a fine citizen, for that matter. Just like you can't lump all rich, poor, brown, white, etc all in one characteristic, either.
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Post by papersilly on Aug 28, 2017 16:48:10 GMT
tbh - i'm more concerned with the wife beaters - 6 week suspensions vick and his crimes against dogs was horrible - but was it worse? exactly!! just suspensions for beating on your spouse or SO. so wrong. clearly the NFL prioritizes the bottom line over the moral line.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 28, 2017 17:14:12 GMT
I think that it is telling that people want to give Vick another chance but have nothing positive to say about Kaepernick. IMO, it is because people want him to remember his place as a black man. And that opinion is reinforced by seeing the comments on this subject, both on this thread and IRL and who is saying them. I believe that is why the poll that seems to be about politics would include questions about these two. So are people supposed to say Kapernick is talented and worth more just to pacify people or to prevent others from assuming we think otherwise? The 49ers are a rival team, so I'm no stranger to Kap before or after his sitting. So now I should say Kap is great just so people don't think I 'want him to remember his place as a black man'. I'm sorry, that is messed up.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 28, 2017 18:18:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 18:26:30 GMT
Kap sucks. His lack of being on a team has nothing to do with his kneeling but everything to do with his inability to maneuver in the pocket, make passes that every QB can toss, and his poor attitude. He was not respected by team mates. It was the other players (mainly defense) that lead the the 49ers as far as they went in after regular season play.
Vick? He did his time. He isnt playing and I am happy about that. I am sure he will be a good at his new position.
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ginacivey
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refupea #2 in southeast missouri
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Post by ginacivey on Aug 28, 2017 18:35:11 GMT
Being in the military is not the only way to show that you are a fine citizen. Nor does it automatically mean that you are a fine citizen, for that matter. you got that right i'm really tired of people using the military as a way to 'prove you are patriotic' and to 'learn your place' gina
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Post by kimpossible on Aug 28, 2017 18:45:12 GMT
So the inside scoop from a couple of long time 49er players that played with Kap say he stopped being a leader. Part of it was his distraction with the Natl. anthem and he seem to get more and more adamant that this is the "cause" he needed to take.
The players around him got upset that he allowed this to "infiltrate" the team and distract them from what they were supposed to be out there doing. My understanding is that it really wasn't about his "cause" but just that he allowed the distraction to take over everything - his playing, his focus, his team player, his attitude, his leadership.
He played hurt - not everyone knows that - when he came back last year in addition to his "cause" he seemed unfocused and hesitant in the pocket - maybe part of his injury not emotionally ready to get back in and play. Thus - everyone thought he was losing his talent/skills.
I don't know if his not getting picked up is really about his talent vs. his "cause". But this I do know - when your QB is not willing to be the strong leader, not be a team player, he loses respect of his teammates, you are not going to be in sync and you aren't going to win. If you can't win - the NFL will pick apart every little reason why you shouldn't be playing. He just happened to add a very big distraction with his "cause' to give them even more reasons to not consider him.
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used2scrap
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Post by used2scrap on Aug 28, 2017 18:46:46 GMT
Interesting article, thank you for sharing.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
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Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Aug 28, 2017 18:48:03 GMT
Being in the military is not the only way to show that you are a fine citizen. Nor does it automatically mean that you are a fine citizen, for that matter. you got that right i'm really tired of people using the military as a way to 'prove you are patriotic' and to 'learn your place' gina We are creating a very dangerous "warrior class," an unintended result of the all volunteer force.
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Post by epeanymous on Aug 28, 2017 19:34:36 GMT
Whatever else people think, I don't think that a protest versus a felony conviction are . . . equivalents.
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Post by papersilly on Aug 28, 2017 19:37:52 GMT
Kap sucks. His lack of being on a team has nothing to do with his kneeling but everything to do with his inability to maneuver in the pocket, make passes that every QB can toss, and his poor attitude. He was not respected by team mates. It was the other players (mainly defense) that lead the the 49ers as far as they went in after regular season play. i think that is the reason too. the NFL is not in the Morals business. if you have the talent and the skills and you might be an occasional distraction, they will still bend every rule and cut very slack to get you on their team. if you are fizzling out AND you are still a distraction to the team or the league, they will step over you like a dirty puddle on the sidewalk.
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PaperAngel
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Post by PaperAngel on Aug 28, 2017 19:38:16 GMT
I don't have an issue with either of these NFL players & wish both all the best in their future endeavors.
Vick admitted & faced the consequences of his crime, & his successful professional career qualifies him to be a color commentator.
Kaepernick used the platform of sports to stage a peaceful protest against a perceived* social injustice & exercise his first amendment rights; IMHO the flag is a useless symbol if we don't recognize the freedoms it embodies. While his stats from last year show that he's more qualified than many of the backup & even starting quarterbacks currently on rosters, it appears teams are hesitant due to a non-performance factor(s).
* Perceived by him; whether no one or everyone agrees with him is irrelevant.
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cycworker
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Post by cycworker on Aug 28, 2017 19:53:20 GMT
Fox Sports has hired Michael Vick as a football commentator. How do you feel about that? There is a part of me that says he did his time and should be allowed to live his life, and another part that says I don't want to see him commenting on anything. And then there is Colin Kaepernick, whose kneeling during the American national anthem in response to a seeming rash of black men being killed by white police officers has inspired all sorts of FB posts about why kneeling for the anthem is an insult to those who died in service to their country. (And about black-on-black crime in general.) Kaepernick has not yet been signed for the upcoming year, and there is some debate as to whether that is because of his talent or his politics. Some say that if players can be fined for twerking in the end zone, why not for kneeling during the anthem. Again, my feelings are mixed, but generally I think you don't mix social protest with your work life. I cam see both sides, though. Since money usually leads in sports, I'm interested to see where this all goes. Kaepernick: I don't have a problem him kneeling. I don't see it as really mixing his work & his social protest. It isn't disrupting the games. He was quietly kneeling at the sidelines. He wasn't making a spectacle of himself or being disruptive. I thought he was wrong when he was sitting like a bump on a log on a chair or a cooler during the anthem. But kneeling? Kneeling balances respect for what the flag means to some, while also demonstrating his beliefs that the country isn't living up to the values it claims to espouse. Now, do I think kneeling is particularly effective form of protest/social action? No, I don't, at least long term. Yes, it's disruptive, but I don't think its disruptive enough, and I think it actually enables the racists by providing a distraction (the 'what is patriotism' debate) from the real conversations need to be having... like how the heck a good guy like Philando Castillo can be murdered in cold blood, in front of his family, by a police officer and that police officer gets away with it. So I think those of us who want to address systemic racism are actually letting the racists off too easily by going the route of these protests. That said, I hate that the NFL is deliberately blacklisting him & trying to force teams to not sign him. That's immoral, and frankly, if players walked out over it, that would finally get us somewhere. The NFL NEEDS black players. If all of them said, "No," and told the NFL it needed to get involved in helping to dismantle racism, we'd finally get somewhere,because it would hit the white owners where it counts - in their pocketbooks. Same with the WNBA, and the NBA. As to Michael Vick: He has paid his debt to society. He shouldn't be stopped from working. I didn't have an issue with him coming back to play quarterback, either. It isn't an employer's job to be the justice system when the conduct matter is a legal one. I don't even have an issue with players continuing to play while dealing with legal matters while the system is doing its job; I support innocent until proven guilt. Let the courts deal with off field behaviour.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 28, 2017 19:55:40 GMT
I think that it is telling that people want to give Vick another chance but have nothing positive to say about Kaepernick. IMO, it is because people want him to remember his place as a black man. And that opinion is reinforced by seeing the comments on this subject, both on this thread and IRL and who is saying them. I believe that is why the poll that seems to be about politics would include questions about these two. So are people supposed to say Kapernick is talented and worth more just to pacify people or to prevent others from assuming we think otherwise? The 49ers are a rival team, so I'm no stranger to Kap before or after his sitting. So now I should say Kap is great just so people don't think I 'want him to remember his place as a black man'. I'm sorry, that is messed up. What I am referring to are the comments that his "cause" is not valid. I have seen more negative comments about CK than I have about the KKK and Nazi protesters. THAT is what is messed up. People are willing to give criminals a second chance based on them saying they were sorry, but make negative comments about CK saying he was sorry and that he would stand if he was playing this year. I have no doubt that the turmoil that has surrounded him in the last year would affect all areas of his life. If I felt strongly about a cause and then was subsequently treated as if I was a worthless POS because people who are likely racists anyway didn't feel that my cause is worthy and acted as if I was worse than the people in the NFL who HAVE committed crimes, I would be deeply affected as well.
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cycworker
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Post by cycworker on Aug 28, 2017 20:01:16 GMT
Kaepernick's not having a job has more to do with his lack of talent than anything else. He's not that good anymore. Vick is a horrible individual. If I got convicted of a felony, I'd not have a job to come back to. I will not watch anything he commentates on. Kaepernick may not be as good as he used to be, or as good as his previous contract's salary would suggest, but he's certainly still better than Jay freakin' Cutler, who was already retired. See, I don't think I agree that it's right that you should be in a position where if you commit a felony you don't have a job to come back to. I think that's counterproductive. It's exactly that kind of thinking that leads to recidivism. You should do your time, pay your debt to society for your mistakes, and be given an opportunity to put your life back together. That should include a job in the field for which you are trained. Certainly the court shouldn't say, 'Oh, X is in Y profession so we'll go easier on them...' But, say a person loses their driver's license due to something that happens off work hours. I see no reason to take the person's job away based on that. If I did take their job away, it would be due to them not being able to figure out a way to get to work as a consequence of losing their license, not because of what they did to lose the license. What they did to lose the license is between them & the justice system, as long as it's not done on my (the employer's) time.
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