|
Post by PNWMom on Aug 29, 2017 2:20:23 GMT
Kaepernick's not having a job has more to do with his lack of talent than anything else. He's not that good anymore. That's not even remotely true. There are at least 7-8 starting QBs in the league right now that he is quite clearly better than. He's proved he can win when he is in a system that plays to his strengths and lets him use his legs as well as his arm. You seriously think that Blaine Gabbert or Blake Bortles are better than Kaepernick?? Josh McCown??? Not sure what you're smoking but, where the heck are you getting your justification for that??
|
|
used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
|
Post by used2scrap on Aug 29, 2017 2:47:52 GMT
The military has to be trained to protect this country. Would you rather that they were not trained? Their training doesn't make them any more dangerous than anyone else. I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not...this isn't about the military being trained, of course they should be. The point is the idea that people in the military are somehow more patriotic, more qualified citizens is dangerous. It does not line up with the constitutional ideals of civilian control of the military if somehow service members are a better class of more patriotic citizen who deserve more citizen afforded rights. foreignpolicy.com/2012/07/03/mcchrystal-time-to-bring-back-the-draft/amp/
|
|
|
Post by #notLauren on Aug 29, 2017 3:11:03 GMT
Since the NFL is composed of privately owned teams, I say too bad for KP. Free speech, which is what those protesting for him are citing, has nothing to do with private employers. It only insures that you don't get arrested by the government. Even if he hasn't been picked up because of his kneeling, too bad. It's a consequence of his action and if he wants to take a stand (no pun intended) he needs to be willing to accept the consequences. But is it ok for employers to play the National Anthem at work and expect employees to stand? (Military excepted). Yes, it is. No one has to sing or to recite the words of the Pledge of Allegiance. But anyone living in this country owes it the respect to get their asses out of their chairs and stand as a sign of respect. And if employees won't stand then I have no problem at all with a private employer saying "sayonara" to that employee.
|
|
|
Post by #notLauren on Aug 29, 2017 3:11:44 GMT
Kaepernick's not having a job has more to do with his lack of talent than anything else. He's not that good anymore. That's not even remotely true. There are at least 7-8 starting QBs in the league right now that he is quite clearly better than. He's proved he can win when he is in a system that plays to his strengths and lets him use his legs as well as his arm. You seriously think that Blaine Gabbert or Blake Bortles are better than Kaepernick?? Josh McCown??? Not sure what you're smoking but, where the heck are you getting your justification for that?? Football is not a civil service job; employers aren't obligated to choose from the 3 best candidates.
|
|
used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
|
Post by used2scrap on Aug 29, 2017 3:20:36 GMT
But is it ok for employers to play the National Anthem at work and expect employees to stand? (Military excepted). Yes, it is. No one has to sing or to recite the words of the Pledge of Allegiance. But anyone living in this country owes it the respect to get their asses out of their chairs and stand as a sign of respect. And if employees won't stand then I have no problem at all with a private employer saying "sayonara" to that employee. Fair enough... Do you know any employers besides sporting teams, military, maybe schools that play the National Anthem as part of the normal work day?
|
|
|
Post by #notLauren on Aug 29, 2017 3:22:11 GMT
No, not really. But that wasn't your question.
|
|
used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
|
Post by used2scrap on Aug 29, 2017 3:26:25 GMT
No, not really. But that wasn't your question. Ok again, fair enough. Is it ok for emoloyers to play the national anthem as some sort of "patriotism test" as a condition of employment? (I know the answer is pretty much yes as most states are "at will" for employers)...it's more a rhetorical question about what freedom really means. Is refusing to stand/taking a knee for the national anthem protected speech or not?
|
|
|
Post by #notLauren on Aug 29, 2017 3:37:11 GMT
It's not something I would personally use as a condition of employment, but yes, it's "ok" for any employer to use any legal criteria for determining it's staffing needs and requirements.
|
|
|
Post by frenchie on Aug 29, 2017 3:48:02 GMT
I find it amusing all the people in this thread who are disgusted with Michael Vick but watched the barbaric fight this weekend. As if watching humans harm others is entertainment. It's like don't wear fur but I eat meat. Spare me. Mayweather and McGregor both agreed to fight, and both got millions of dollars to do so. In dogfighting rings, the dogs do not choose to fight- they are forced to. Your analogy is ridiculous.
|
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
|
Post by Rainbow on Aug 29, 2017 5:06:58 GMT
The military has to be trained to protect this country. Would you rather that they were not trained? Their training doesn't make them any more dangerous than anyone else. I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not...this isn't about the military being trained, of course they should be. The point is the idea that people in the military are somehow more patriotic, more qualified citizens is dangerous. It does not line up with the constitutional ideals of civilian control of the military if somehow service members are a better class of more patriotic citizen who deserve more citizen afforded rights. foreignpolicy.com/2012/07/03/mcchrystal-time-to-bring-back-the-draft/amp/ They have exactly the same rights as everyone else. In my eyes, they are more patriotic than anyone else. Not sure what is up with the control issue mentioned. I don't see a problem there either. I think they are wonderful and God bless them for all they do! YMMV
|
|
|
Post by beebee on Aug 29, 2017 6:15:55 GMT
I will not watch Vick. I will change the channel if he is on. Yes he did serve his time, but I will not support anyone that preyed on helpless animals.
I feel like Kaepernick has a right to do what he did and each team has a right to make their choice to hire him or not. I would not support a team that hired him.
I also think penalties should be way harder for wife beaters and I will not support teams that make heroes of them.
|
|
|
Post by *KAS* on Aug 29, 2017 11:03:33 GMT
Kaepernick's not having a job has more to do with his lack of talent than anything else. He's not that good anymore. That's not even remotely true. There are at least 7-8 starting QBs in the league right now that he is quite clearly better than. He's proved he can win when he is in a system that plays to his strengths and lets him use his legs as well as his arm. You seriously think that Blaine Gabbert or Blake Bortles are better than Kaepernick?? Josh McCown??? Not sure what you're smoking but, where the heck are you getting your justification for that?? Gabbert $900k salary / 1 year contract Bortles - $3mil salary / locked into a ridiculous contract that pays him like $18 million next year, which no team would pick up so they are pretty much stuck. McCown - $6mil / 1 year contract Kaepernick's contract was to pay him $14 million. He's not terrible, he's just not worth what he was supposed to make. He's been interviewed by multiple teams, and there's a reason every one of them have picked someone else. It's not just the sideshow drama or they wouldn't have bothered with an interview. He's likely looking to be a starter and they don't need one or he won't accept an incentive-laden contract, or something along those lines.
|
|
|
Post by *KAS* on Aug 29, 2017 11:17:01 GMT
I find it amusing all the people in this thread who are disgusted with Michael Vick but watched the barbaric fight this weekend. As if watching humans harm others is entertainment. It's like don't wear fur but I eat meat. Spare me. Mayweather and McGregor both agreed to fight, and both got millions of dollars to do so. In dogfighting rings, the dogs do not choose to fight- they are forced to. Your analogy is ridiculous. I am on the 2nd chance for Vick bench but still want to weigh in. That particular analogy might have been 'ridiculous' but the fact remains that Mayweather has beat women multiple times, including in front of his children. He was facing 32 years in prison but did a plea bargain and instead just made $300mil fighting. If Vick doesn't deserve a 2nd chance, then why are we holding parties to watch Mayweather? That comparison isn't 'ridiculous' to me at all. FTR, I'm not a fan of McGregor either. We have enough race issues here in our own country. His 'dance for me, boy' line is repulsive and also shouldn't be celebrated. I was invited to a friend's house to watch it. At first I was going to go, just to see some friends and socialize and check out the hype. Then I really thought about it Friday night and decided that for me, going was very hypocritical of me based on how I felt so I changed my mind and didn't watch any of the coverage.
|
|
|
Post by christine58 on Aug 29, 2017 11:26:02 GMT
Kaepernick's not having a job has more to do with his lack of talent than anything else. He's not that good anymore. That's not even remotely true. There are at least 7-8 starting QBs in the league right now that he is quite clearly better than. He's proved he can win when he is in a system that plays to his strengths and lets him use his legs as well as his arm. You seriously think that Blaine Gabbert or Blake Bortles are better than Kaepernick?? Josh McCown??? Not sure what you're smoking but, where the heck are you getting your justification for that?? WOW..Why the personal attack because I expressed my opinion?? "Not sure what I am smoking"... that's a really low blow coming from you honestly. Interesting response. Let me rephrase it...Kaepernick is NOT worth the 14 million he was supposed to make. He's visited many teams and I'm pretty sure if someone thought he was good enough to play, he'd have job.
|
|
|
Post by frenchie on Aug 29, 2017 12:34:30 GMT
Mayweather and McGregor both agreed to fight, and both got millions of dollars to do so. In dogfighting rings, the dogs do not choose to fight- they are forced to. Your analogy is ridiculous. I am on the 2nd chance for Vick bench but still want to weigh in. That particular analogy might have been 'ridiculous' but the fact remains that Mayweather has beat women multiple times, including in front of his children. He was facing 32 years in prison but did a plea bargain and instead just made $300mil fighting. If Vick doesn't deserve a 2nd chance, then why are we holding parties to watch Mayweather? That comparison isn't 'ridiculous' to me at all. FTR, I'm not a fan of McGregor either. We have enough race issues here in our own country. His 'dance for me, boy' line is repulsive and also shouldn't be celebrated. I was invited to a friend's house to watch it. At first I was going to go, just to see some friends and socialize and check out the hype. Then I really thought about it Friday night and decided that for me, going was very hypocritical of me based on how I felt so I changed my mind and didn't watch any of the coverage. To me, her post was comparing what Michael Vick did to boxing. It was not about what scumbags they all are in real life. If that was what she was referring to, then I agree with her 100%.
|
|
|
Post by *KAS* on Aug 29, 2017 13:40:36 GMT
I am on the 2nd chance for Vick bench but still want to weigh in. That particular analogy might have been 'ridiculous' but the fact remains that Mayweather has beat women multiple times, including in front of his children. He was facing 32 years in prison but did a plea bargain and instead just made $300mil fighting. If Vick doesn't deserve a 2nd chance, then why are we holding parties to watch Mayweather? That comparison isn't 'ridiculous' to me at all. FTR, I'm not a fan of McGregor either. We have enough race issues here in our own country. His 'dance for me, boy' line is repulsive and also shouldn't be celebrated. I was invited to a friend's house to watch it. At first I was going to go, just to see some friends and socialize and check out the hype. Then I really thought about it Friday night and decided that for me, going was very hypocritical of me based on how I felt so I changed my mind and didn't watch any of the coverage. To me, her post was comparing what Michael Vick did to boxing. It was not about what scumbags they all are in real life. If that was what she was referring to, then I agree with her 100%. I understand - that's why I changed up what I think is ridiculous. Don't compare dog fighting to a voluntary boxing match. I agree. But how many people who bash Vick were also watching that fight on Saturday night? Many, I'm sure. Not sure why one guy served time in prison for his crimes but doesn't deserve a second chance, yet we celebrate and hold parties to watch another guy who SHOULD be in prison for his crimes. It's screwed up, no matter how you look at it. For those that aren't familiar, here's a story about Mayweather - the man who just made $300 million dollars fighting on pay per view TV.
|
|
|
Post by workingclassdog on Aug 29, 2017 14:56:37 GMT
Am I to assume correctly Vick was charged as a felony? If I was charged with a felony, I wouldn't be getting no fancy job. I would be at the fast food restaurant flipping burgers. No one is going to hire a felon unless you have friends in the right places. Looks to me Vick has friends in the right places. This should go for every woman beater as well.
Kap is a pig and I can't stand him. If he wants to play and given an offer of $900,000 take it or leave it.. quit complaining about it.
|
|
peabrain
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,588
Jun 25, 2014 22:18:04 GMT
|
Post by peabrain on Aug 29, 2017 15:12:49 GMT
|
|
azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
|
Post by azredhead on Aug 29, 2017 16:58:15 GMT
Also keep in mind that the owner of football Roger Goodell is under heavy scrunity because of discipline issues. In cases of the domestic abuse (take some of the Dallas players) for instance the punishment for that have been far less for serious crimes but then other crimes such a drug abuse (not that they're aren't serious too. Some get one game suspension and some more it wasn't consistent, or match the crimes. As far CK goes still I'll say again they are very different and race isn't the issue in his case. The only part of it that was his protesting. And I don't think he was all that quiet about it, (maybe I just think if it in different way) wearing a Castro shirt to game in Florida. He was not a known leader and still turned down job if he couldn't be the starter. I have been a long time football fan, it's changed a lot. Coaches and Owners have the right to tell them they can or can not stand for the Anthem. The Browns coach and own Dallas Owner Jerry Jones actually gave a good message about it after and they were all standing arm linked in the game last week. Even in preseason- that I have no problem with other teams have done that . It's not disrespectful, like kneeling or s towel over your face. I will never understood that.Dont flame but but I will never understand that especially when they're doing things with military besides the anthem at these games. i come from a long line of military family so that's part of it I get a little crazy just about that issue. I understand it's different for everyone.
|
|
|
Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 29, 2017 17:50:36 GMT
Kaepernick's not having a job has more to do with his lack of talent than anything else. He's not that good anymore. That's not even remotely true. There are at least 7-8 starting QBs in the league right now that he is quite clearly better than. He's proved he can win when he is in a system that plays to his strengths and lets him use his legs as well as his arm. You seriously think that Blaine Gabbert or Blake Bortles are better than Kaepernick?? Josh McCown??? Not sure what you're smoking but, where the heck are you getting your justification for that?? Don't know the other names, but Kap is not as good as our quarterback and he didn't want to be the backup, so no, we did not sign him.
|
|
ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
|
Post by ginacivey on Aug 29, 2017 18:09:28 GMT
If I was charged with a felony, I wouldn't be getting no fancy job. I would be at the fast food restaurant flipping burgers. No one is going to hire a felon unless you have friends in the right places. lots of places hire felons many people and companies believe in redemption gina
|
|
|
Post by christine58 on Aug 29, 2017 18:13:16 GMT
Don't know the other names, but Kap is not as good as our quarterback and he didn't want to be the backup, so no, we did not sign him. BINGO~~~ He thinks he can start someplace for $14 million...
|
|
|
Post by annabella on Aug 29, 2017 18:13:43 GMT
Am I to assume correctly Vick was charged as a felony? If I was charged with a felony, I wouldn't be getting no fancy job. I would be at the fast food restaurant flipping burgers. No one is going to hire a felon unless you have friends in the right places. Looks to me Vick has friends in the right places. This should go for every woman beater as well. My city changed the laws recently where that is no longer a question on job applications to not discriminate against people. Yes it's pro-criminal.
|
|
AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,502
Aug 28, 2015 22:31:17 GMT
|
Post by AmandaA on Aug 29, 2017 20:24:08 GMT
If I was charged with a felony, I wouldn't be getting no fancy job. I would be at the fast food restaurant flipping burgers. No one is going to hire a felon unless you have friends in the right places. lots of places hire felons many people and companies believe in redemption gina Amen! Our best employee has a felony on his record. He is a good person, he made a mistake, he did his time, and I am thankful every day that we have his help. He is equally thankful that we gave him a chance when most people wouldn't. We have had many a POS pass through with a clean record that I hope I never cross paths with again.
|
|
|
Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 29, 2017 21:46:46 GMT
Around here people with felonies have a hard time finding work as well as a place to live.
|
|
|
Post by PNWMom on Aug 30, 2017 3:15:46 GMT
That's not even remotely true. There are at least 7-8 starting QBs in the league right now that he is quite clearly better than. He's proved he can win when he is in a system that plays to his strengths and lets him use his legs as well as his arm. You seriously think that Blaine Gabbert or Blake Bortles are better than Kaepernick?? Josh McCown??? Not sure what you're smoking but, where the heck are you getting your justification for that?? WOW..Why the personal attack because I expressed my opinion?? "Not sure what I am smoking"... that's a really low blow coming from you honestly. Interesting response. Let me rephrase it...Kaepernick is NOT worth the 14 million he was supposed to make. He's visited many teams and I'm pretty sure if someone thought he was good enough to play, he'd have job. Low blow??? I was under the impression this was a thread about sports. Clearly you are not well versed in the art of sporting smack talk........ Kaep left SF and that 14 million dollar contract. No way he'd get something like that; no way he ASKing for something like that.
|
|