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Post by Merge on Aug 30, 2017 1:14:01 GMT
Oh peas, I'm just overwhelmed from what I experienced today.
My youngest daughter's best friend's family had 2-3 feet of water in their house during Harvey. They live in a two story home in the neighborhood immediately north of ours. Of course, we wanted to help them recover, particularly as we know the husband is partially disabled.
I texted the mom this morning and asked what we could bring with us. We hadn't been up there yet because there was high water on the road in between here and there, but the water receded from their home a couple of days ago, so I was hoping they'd at least gotten a start on the cleanup process. Mom said, bring whatever you can - we haven't really gotten underway yet and need everything. We bought bleach, mops, sponges and as many plastic storage containers as we could get.
I have to say I was completely shocked when we got there. These people are hoarders. Not like with rotting food and dog feces, not that at all, but rather that every room, every corner, is packed with boxes full of junk. Garage sale finds, old clothes, books, toys, boxes and boxes of old VHS tapes, cassette tapes and DVDs, wrapping paper, etc. Every horizontal surface also covered with stuff. They hadn't expected to flood and didn't put anything up until the water was rushing through the door - I suspect because there isn't really anywhere to put things - so very little was saved.
Another friend's mom and I were there to help today, but were hampered at every turn because this family wants to figure out how to sanitize and keep every single thing that was touched by floodwater. A lot of this stuff is unsalvageable, y'all, or not worth salvaging in my opinion because it's junk.
We managed to sanitize with bleach water, wrap and pack a lot of knick knacks and china today. We also secured them a space in a storage facility. But this family has no idea how to go about quickly sorting through and packing up their things because they literally can't get rid of anything. The carpets and flooring need to come out of that house soon, before they start to mold, but at this rate it will be weeks or months before they can even get to the floor under the crap.
What do I do? How much of this can I reasonably make my responsibility? I feel like I can't just abandon them, but I also can't fix their hoarding problem in addition to trying to help them recover from the flood. Has anyone dealt with anything like this before?
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Post by Dixie Lou on Aug 30, 2017 1:18:57 GMT
Wow. How long were you planning on helping them? I'd limit my help to whatever time you were planning to spend anyway and maybe give them a few gift cards for dinner and call it done. You can't really do more.
Hope that doesn't make me sound uncaring. God bless all of the people this terrible storm affected.
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Post by pondrunner on Aug 30, 2017 1:25:21 GMT
That flood water was full of the oil and fuel that leaks out of cars, dead animals, household chemicals, and god alone knows what else. Textiles and paper are done for. I think I would offer to help pack up hard items and try to get them into dry storage. But if they are going to try to sanitize soft goods they are going to have a real bad time.
With 2-3 feet of water there is going to be a lot of restoration as it is, so I wouldn't worry about getting the carpet out now. The drywall is going to have to be cut out to above the level of the water. Could be electric and plumbing work to be done in addition to flooring. I would just try to help get out whatever can get out. Furniture is done, get it to the curb. Start where you can. Go to Home Depot and get a filter mask now, don't wait until you see mold. The good news is it can't be made worse by delaying the process. It is already very bad.
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Post by AussieMeg on Aug 30, 2017 1:28:56 GMT
It's a shame that they can't see this truly awful disaster as a means to start afresh and get rid of all the junk and clutter. I guess that's the nature of hoarders though isn't it - they just don't see it as junk and clutter. I have someone in my family who would be in the same predicament.
You're very kind to want to try and help them. I wonder if you can go along with them (for now) and try to get all the crap into storage for the time being. Then when things have settled down and the flooding has subsided, you might be able to help them go through all the junk and try to encourage them to get rid of a lot of it. Either that or it will all be mouldy by then! Perhaps if they've lived for a few weeks without the clutter they might realise just how much better off they are.
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Post by papersilly on Aug 30, 2017 1:40:12 GMT
I think you should help with the absolute necessities first. That should be the extent of your help. With all the water damage and possible mold, won't the "hoard" be unsalvagable anyway? You are not obligated to sift through all that stuff. Just what they need to live right now.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 30, 2017 1:41:36 GMT
If it got wet, it goes.
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Post by Merge on Aug 30, 2017 1:42:17 GMT
That flood water was full of the oil and fuel that leaks out of cars, dead animals, household chemicals, and god alone knows what else. Textiles and paper are done for. I think I would offer to help pack up hard items and try to get them into dry storage. But if they are going to try to sanitize soft goods they are going to have a real bad time. With 2-3 feet of water there is going to be a lot of restoration as it is, so I wouldn't worry about getting the carpet out now. The drywall is going to have to be cut out to above the level of the water. Could be electric and plumbing work to be done in addition to flooring. I would just try to help get out whatever can get out. Furniture is done, get it to the curb. Start where you can. Go to Home Depot and get a filter mask now, don't wait until you see mold. The good news is it can't be made worse by delaying the process. It is already very bad. Home Depot hasn't reopened yet, and Target was sold out of masks. Tried to convince them to let us help them take the couches out today, but the mom said her husband wouldn't like that. He's perfectly happy sitting there on the rapidly molding couches! This whole thing has disaster written all over it. Their youngest daughter, my daughter's friend, is only 14 and not remotely equipped to take charge. One son has autism and is not able to do much without explicit direction, and the other has moved away from home and only grudgingly came over today to help put some DVDs in boxes. Mostly he and his dad sat there eating wings while everyone else was working. Dad is somewhat disabled, but sat there today like he couldn't do anything at all, which I know is not the case, and said no to anything we tried to get rid of. I feel terrible for the kids still at home that their parents can't get their act together. I don't know what to do about that. They're all living in the upstairs of their house. The kitchen is unusable and they have one bathroom to share. It's chaos and pretty soon it will be moldy chaos.
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eleezybeth
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Jun 28, 2014 20:42:01 GMT
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Post by eleezybeth on Aug 30, 2017 1:46:11 GMT
That is very stressful. Do not feel like you need to solve them. You helped as much as you could.
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twinsmomfla99
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Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Aug 30, 2017 1:55:54 GMT
That flood water was full of the oil and fuel that leaks out of cars, dead animals, household chemicals, and god alone knows what else. Textiles and paper are done for. I think I would offer to help pack up hard items and try to get them into dry storage. But if they are going to try to sanitize soft goods they are going to have a real bad time. With 2-3 feet of water there is going to be a lot of restoration as it is, so I wouldn't worry about getting the carpet out now. The drywall is going to have to be cut out to above the level of the water. Could be electric and plumbing work to be done in addition to flooring. I would just try to help get out whatever can get out. Furniture is done, get it to the curb. Start where you can. Go to Home Depot and get a filter mask now, don't wait until you see mold. The good news is it can't be made worse by delaying the process. It is already very bad. Home Depot hasn't reopened yet, and Target was sold out of masks. Tried to convince them to let us help them take the couches out today, but the mom said her husband wouldn't like that. He's perfectly happy sitting there on the rapidly molding couches! This whole thing has disaster written all over it. Their youngest daughter, my daughter's friend, is only 14 and not remotely equipped to take charge. One son has autism and is not able to do much without explicit direction, and the other has moved away from home and only grudgingly came over today to help put some DVDs in boxes. Mostly he and his dad sat there eating wings while everyone else was working. Dad is somewhat disabled, but sat there today like he couldn't do anything at all, which I know is not the case, and said no to anything we tried to get rid of. I feel terrible for the kids still at home that their parents can't get their act together. I don't know what to do about that. They're all living in the upstairs of their house. The kitchen is unusable and they have one bathroom to share. It's chaos and pretty soon it will be moldy chaos. Merge, I think you might need to get children's protective services involved if they are going to insist on keeping moldy (and eventually toxic) items that need to go to the dump. Seriously, that is such a health hazard, and minor children and an autistic child should not be subjected to that environment.
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Post by Lexica on Aug 30, 2017 2:00:36 GMT
Oh boy, what a mess! I used to have a friend that was a hoarder. The first time I saw her place, I was shocked. I've never been into a hoarder's home before that. She was very upset because her mother was coming to visit and if she saw the house like that, she was going to take custody of this friend's little girl. I worked over there for 4 weekends in a row and it was quite eye opening. She had such difficulty getting rid of anything. All boxes from anything she ever bought were still in this little place. I told her that any box for something with no electronic moving parts went to the trash first, then we needed to determine how old the remaining boxes were. Some of the items were no longer working. She explained that the boxes were to return the item to the store. After 6 years, box or no, they are not taking something back! I did the very best I could, starting in the child's bedroom, making the mom remove everything that didn't belong to the little girl. I sorted, organized, arranged, and had her bedroom looking great.
I forced her to remove about 80% of the crap from the kitchen and living room. She chose to just move it to her backyard area (which was just dirt and bunny holes, and rats everywhere) The floor in her kitchen was filthy. We had bought products to clean it. Before we even so much as swept it, she poured wax on it and was so excited at how shiny it was and how clean it smelled. Ugh. I had to tell her that before she could wax, we needed to sweep off all the dirt and cat food. Then we needed to scrub it good until it became the original color - white. She didn't know it was once white! Finally, I told her to go ahead and wax it.
I guess the visit went well, because the child was still with her after the mom went home. I don't know how many days it was until all the crap was all over everything again. I did beg her to leave the little girl's room alone to give her a place to do her homework and not trip all over boxes. Who knows how it went. I never went back in there again. I didn't want to see it a disaster all over again.
With this family, I don't think you are going to be able to get this place to your standards, no matter what. If they are willing to sit on a wet and soon-to-be moldy couch, and want to hang on to things that were under the floodwater level, I think they are helpless. I guess I would offer to remove it my way, and when that was refused, I'd offer some meal gift certificates and wish them good luck. If they won't let you remove anything? What good is it your being there? Does their insurance cover any of this? If so, I'd recommend they wait for their adjuster to come out. Maybe go ahead and take photos of everything for possible assistance, and then try to talk them into tossing it.
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Post by Merge on Aug 30, 2017 2:17:23 GMT
OK, thank you for letting me talk/type this out. I've talked with DH and tomorrow we are committed to helping them find some boxes (in very short supply for obvious reasons) and we'll take them lunch. Their daughter is spending the night with us and is welcome to stay as long as she wants/needs to. I just don't think I can do more than that if they're not willing to get rid of anything.
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janeliz
Drama Llama
I'm the Wiz and nobody beats me.
Posts: 5,633
Jun 26, 2014 14:35:07 GMT
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Post by janeliz on Aug 30, 2017 2:24:33 GMT
What an already sad situation made worse by this disaster. You're limited in what you can do, but I think letting your DD's friend stay with you is a perfect way to help.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Aug 30, 2017 2:34:51 GMT
OK, thank you for letting me talk/type this out. I've talked with DH and tomorrow we are committed to helping them find some boxes (in very short supply for obvious reasons) and we'll take them lunch. Their daughter is spending the night with us and is welcome to stay as long as she wants/needs to. I just don't think I can do more than that if they're not willing to get rid of anything. This is what I was going to suggest as well, if you have the space in your home to put up your DD's friend for a time that's what I would do. As much as I would hate to call CPS I probably would do that too because the kids have no choice in the matter when their parents choose to live that way and that's just not right, especially for the special needs kid. Beyond that you're going to have a tough time convincing them of anything because their thinking is obviously warped into believing how they're living is okay. Hugs, it's hard. We have a friend kind of like that too (she's slowly working on it, sort of) and just pray to God that she's able to go through everything and get the mess cleaned up.
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PrettyInPeank
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Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Aug 30, 2017 2:36:35 GMT
They will most likely cling to the junk even more because of the stress of the flood. Things will rot and mold. Soon it will go from the category of too much stuff to the filth category. Which is CPS territory.
I don't know what I'd do. If I came in 6 weeks to check, they'd know it was me who called. They may not even let you in by then. I really don't know what I'd do.
But know you cannot help them in the way you want to help them. It's a mental health problem. Like addiction, they need to acknowledge the problem and then decide to seek help themselves.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 30, 2017 2:46:16 GMT
I would give them any information or educational materials on what types of items need to be tossed and what can be salvaged. Tell the what can happen if those guidelines aren't followed. Offer to help with that and leave it at that. If they refuse, you can't do much more.
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Post by zztop11 on Aug 30, 2017 2:49:33 GMT
Maybe you can have the daughter stay at your house for some de-stressing time for her. It's not helping them with the hoarding problem but you are certainly helping. And that also keeps you out of harms way. So sad.
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Post by scrapmaven on Aug 30, 2017 2:59:26 GMT
I think that you're doing more than enough, because you can't fix a hoarder in just a few short days. Thed eir dd will be safe from harm at your house and she'll need lots of love and reassurance, too. Her parents are choosing to live in a place that is likely unlivable right now. You can't fix or change that for them. I know that you're a mandated reporter in the classroom setting. Does that also apply to this situation? If not, is there a gentle way to suggest to the mother that this is unlivable for her children and someone might call CPS and you want to help prevent that?
This is such a horrible time and I feel for everyone in this hurricane's path. I spent 2 weeks in the Woodlands last winter and it was truly a lovely area. So sad to think of all the damage now.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 30, 2017 3:01:53 GMT
OK, thank you for letting me talk/type this out. I've talked with DH and tomorrow we are committed to helping them find some boxes (in very short supply for obvious reasons) and we'll take them lunch. Their daughter is spending the night with us and is welcome to stay as long as she wants/needs to. I just don't think I can do more than that if they're not willing to get rid of anything. You cannot fix this. They are not willing to accept help. Boxes and lunch sound good for them tomorrow. Thanks for being a safe place for the daughter. That's good, she would never have said anything had you not been there to see.
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quiltz
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Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on Aug 30, 2017 3:02:44 GMT
I would give them any information or educational materials on what types of items need to be tossed and what can be salvaged. Tell the what can happen if those guidelines aren't followed. Offer to help with that and leave it at that. If they refuse, you can't do much more. Unfortunately, people who have a hoarding issue don't think that they have a hoarding issue.
I have worked / tried to help people who cling to memories or just 'stuff'. Their 'stuff' is the most important thing to them. Their 'stuff' tends to define who they are, as everything is so important. @merge you have done the best that you could. Keeping the daughter in your place is an excellent plan. You do need to inform CPS about the situation. It is unhealthy to be breathing in the toxic mold and the water is filled with nasty stuff. Many ( ( ( hugs ) ) ) to you.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 30, 2017 3:05:38 GMT
I think that you're doing more than enough, because you can't fix a hoarder in just a few short days. Thed eir dd will be safe from harm at your house and she'll need lots of love and reassurance, too. Her parents are choosing to live in a place that is likely unlivable right now. You can't fix or change that for them. I know that you're a mandated reporter in the classroom setting. Does that also apply to this situation? If not, is there a gentle way to suggest to the mother that this is unlivable for her children and someone might call CPS and you want to help prevent that? This is such a horrible time and I feel for everyone in this hurricane's path. I spent 2 weeks in the Woodlands last winter and it was truly a lovely area. So sad to think of all the damage now. Please don't even bring up CPS. If you think at some point you need to call, make sure no one knows. The daughter needs you in her life for now.
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Post by Basket1lady on Aug 30, 2017 3:34:13 GMT
Surely the insurance company will send in an abatement team? Once repairs are underway, the items will need to be removed. I would think they would need to be relocated from the house while everything is ripped out, dried out, and replaced. Unfortunately due to the enormity of the flood, that could take a while.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 30, 2017 5:06:01 GMT
Offer the daughter to stay with you and let the parents figure it out?
My mother was a borderline hoarder, seriously almost but not quite. I could easily be but I don't allow it. But once you go over the line from 'I'm almost a hoarder' to full on hoarding stuff on every surface you don't just clean up without mental help. You can't provide that mental help. You will get dragged in and they will get upset and resentful and it will destroy your DD's friendship with the DD.
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Deleted
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May 19, 2024 20:57:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 5:14:44 GMT
I feel terrible for the kids still at home that their parents can't get their act together. I don't know what to do about that. They're all living in the upstairs of their house. The kitchen is unusable and they have one bathroom to share. It's chaos and pretty soon it will be moldy chaos. This probably isn't going to be a popular response, but having been a mandated reporter for 24 years, I believe the kindest thing you can do for those kids is file a report with child protective services. That family needs professional help, and they most likely aren't going to accept it willingly.
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Post by flanz on Aug 30, 2017 5:19:34 GMT
OK, thank you for letting me talk/type this out. I've talked with DH and tomorrow we are committed to helping them find some boxes (in very short supply for obvious reasons) and we'll take them lunch. Their daughter is spending the night with us and is welcome to stay as long as she wants/needs to. I just don't think I can do more than that if they're not willing to get rid of anything. I validate your decision completely!
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Aug 30, 2017 11:13:41 GMT
How much of this can I reasonably make my responsibility? You just can't take this on as your responsibility. You can offer a normal amount of help, and what they take, they take. But the parents don't sound normal. Hoarders have something in their brain that is wired different, and they don't always see the danger that their hoarding can bring. I would be blunt and honest to them that they are & will be putting their children's lives at risk if they don't immediately get rid of any soft item (paper, sofas, etc) that the water touches because of the sewage, oils, dead animal scum, and growing mold will contaminate their house. An autistic boy and a young teen girl can't have the weight of hurricane cleanup on their shoulders. That's horrible. And neglectful.
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Nanner
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Posts: 5,969
Jun 25, 2014 23:13:23 GMT
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Post by Nanner on Aug 30, 2017 12:03:26 GMT
I think you've made a good decision, Merge. You can't fix them.
Good luck.
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Post by mikklynn on Aug 30, 2017 12:07:31 GMT
I feel terrible for the kids still at home that their parents can't get their act together. I don't know what to do about that. They're all living in the upstairs of their house. The kitchen is unusable and they have one bathroom to share. It's chaos and pretty soon it will be moldy chaos. This probably isn't going to be a popular response, but having been a mandated reporter for 24 years, I believe the kindest thing you can do for those kids is file a report with child protective services. That family needs professional help, and they most likely aren't going to accept it willingly. I was going to say the same thing - please, report the situation. I commend you for letting their DD stay with you, as well as your desire to help.
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johnnysmom
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Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Aug 30, 2017 12:20:57 GMT
OK, thank you for letting me talk/type this out. I've talked with DH and tomorrow we are committed to helping them find some boxes (in very short supply for obvious reasons) and we'll take them lunch. Their daughter is spending the night with us and is welcome to stay as long as she wants/needs to. I just don't think I can do more than that if they're not willing to get rid of anything. I think that's about all you can do. The only other idea that crossed my mind was offer to bring some of her dishes/pans/kitchenware/etc to your house, a box or two at a time and run them through your dishwasher to sanitize them. I guess if there's anything that could go in the washing machine (towels, clothes, etc) you could offer that too.
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freebird
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Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Aug 30, 2017 14:19:38 GMT
I'd probably have a come to jesus meetin'.
"Here's how this goes, this stuff will have to be thrown away (start with furniture), otherwise, it will mold and put you and your family at risk. This will flag you for CPS. You don't want them down your back do you?"
For me, it's veiled threat, said with love.
Do it, or your kids will live somewhere safe. Period.
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 30, 2017 14:23:37 GMT
OK, thank you for letting me talk/type this out. I've talked with DH and tomorrow we are committed to helping them find some boxes (in very short supply for obvious reasons) and we'll take them lunch. Their daughter is spending the night with us and is welcome to stay as long as she wants/needs to. I just don't think I can do more than that if they're not willing to get rid of anything. I'll send stuff your way if you need it.
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