Deleted
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May 5, 2024 17:17:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 13:38:02 GMT
Russia understands that wide swaths of America can be manipulated over issues of race and religion. With the sophisticated demographic targeting available through Facebook, Russia was able to deliver to key voters a message that Hillary Clinton was the favored candidate of blacks and Muslims. The story that Russia tells about the US is that America is a land of unequal justice and vast racial inequality. In their Facebook ads, they turned their story into a weapon of division. From Wapo: www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/russian-operatives-used-facebook-ads-to-exploit-divisions-over-black-political-activism-and-muslims/2017/09/25/4a011242-a21b-11e7-ade1-76d061d56efa_story.html"These targeted messages, along with others that have surfaced in recent days, highlight the sophistication of an influence campaign slickly crafted to mimic and infiltrate U.S. political discourse while also seeking to heighten tensions between groups already wary of one another.... “Is it a goal of the Kremlin to encourage discord in American society? The answer to that is yes,” said Michael A. McFaul, a former U.S. ambassador to Russia who is now a director of the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies at Stanford University. “More generally, Putin has an idea that our society is imperfect, that our democracy is not better than his, so to see us in conflict on big social issues is in the Kremlin’s interests.”" They know our Achilles heel and will use it to try to take us down. And too many will find ways to help them by focusing on what tears us apart instead of finding ways to heal and bring the country together. Like Trump, w/his NFL rhetoric, who seems to be helping stoke the divisions. How ironic if the history books write that America was ultimately destroyed by its hundreds of years of festering racism.
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Post by mellyw on Sept 26, 2017 14:07:24 GMT
This is where I get all conspiracy theory on this whole story. My gut instinct is someone in the U.S had to have helped with these ads. I'm not even pointing a finger at the Trump campaign.
These ads were so targeted, down to zip codes. If U.S citizens weren't helping, then we have some really good Russian spies that have been embedded around the country for years.
It's easy enough to see,especially using old Cold War tactics that Putin has expanded and updated to figure out what makes us tick as Americans, the subjects to foment divisions. Down to street by street? That reeks of local help to me.
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Post by missbennet on Sept 26, 2017 14:13:15 GMT
This is where I get all conspiracy theory on this whole story. My gut instinct is someone in the U.S had to have helped with these ads. I'm not even pointing a finger at the Trump campaign. These ads were so targeted, down to zip codes. If U.S citizens weren't helping, then we have some really good Russian spies that have been embedded around the country for years. It's easy enough to see,especially using old Cold War tactics that Putin has expanded and updated to figure out what makes us tick as Americans, the subjects to foment divisions. Down to street by street? That reeks of local help to me.Or, they had already hacked voting records and knew how people were registered and the ads were targeted that way. We sort of assume that when hacks are reported, those are the only ones - but good hackers go in and get information and leave no trace. So by the time breaches and thefts are discovered, they may actually be on the most recent one, but the data had been out there for a long time.
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Post by hop2 on Sept 26, 2017 14:15:41 GMT
All that info is available from FB algorithms they just say had to have one if thier shell companies buy the info
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Sept 26, 2017 14:25:40 GMT
Here's the craziest thing: a large segment of the population (largely Republican) doesn't understand that this is even a conflict, and is completely willing to overlook that Russia's interests are not our interests.
After decades of crazy cold war spending and arms racing, we finally defeated the USSR. We didn't have to go into battle, we just outspent them to the point where they couldn't keep up. It wasn't that we ideologically proved the superiority of democracy, we just had more money to throw at the problem. Round One: USA.
But the USA thought that round one was the entire war. Russia has moved on to round two. They are being very "judo" about it - use their strengths and their enemies' weaknesses against them. We have a lot of very stupid people in our country who are willing to be led into believing anything so long as it plays into whatever beliefs they have. We have a lot of people who don't want to spend event a moment questioning the latest 'news' about someone they don't like, they'll just spread it as the gospel truth. We have a lot of people who don't want to have their beliefs challenged because they are too lazy to consider why they believe what they do. If your belief is worth having, it is worth questioning and defending - but they don't want to hear even the slightest criticism of it. And there are a lot of scared people who just don't like anything different - whether it's an immigrant, a brown person, or a black person who dares to question authority.
And then we have the people in power who overlook these things as 'partisan bias' (McConnell) or have the hubris to think that they know better than the ones sounding the alarm (Zuckerberg). We have some who are willing to buy into the narrative that we are friends with Russia, and we should thank them from saving us from Hillary (multiple useful idiots across the US).
What these people don't understand is that Russia is not our ally. Russia's goals are not our goals. Putin's needs are not our needs. Sure, at this point in time it may seem like they are being helpful. But keep in mind - Russians are not Republicans. Putin is not a member of the GOP. Just because they supported/helped your candidate this time, that doesn't mean that it will happen next time. And what will they do then? Cry about how the Russians manipulated the system, and we need a do-over? Sorry...it needs to be fixed for the security and validity of our electoral system, NOT because it may not benefit you. As an American, this should bother everyone. Instead you have people waving the flag and up in arms over whether some stranger stands or kneels during a song.
Learn from history. Stalin signed an agreement with Hitler. Not because he liked Hitler, but because it aligned with the goals of the USSR at that time. Hitler went back on it, and they became enemies. Then the USSR allied with the west to fight against Hitler. After the war, it was back to being enemies. Russia will do what benefits Russia, at all times. And if things change, Russia will change its allegiances as well. This is normal and expected for every country on earth - and yet these fools truly believe that Russia is 'helping' the US by electing Trump because they want to...what? Be helpful?
Russia is not our ally. Putin is not our friend.
I feel like I've typed this before somewhere...
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 17:17:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 14:32:27 GMT
This is where I get all conspiracy theory on this whole story. My gut instinct is someone in the U.S had to have helped with these ads. I'm not even pointing a finger at the Trump campaign. These ads were so targeted, down to zip codes. If U.S citizens weren't helping, then we have some really good Russian spies that have been embedded around the country for years. It's easy enough to see,especially using old Cold War tactics that Putin has expanded and updated to figure out what makes us tick as Americans, the subjects to foment divisions. Down to street by street? That reeks of local help to me. My guess is Mercer/Cambridge. Money over country.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 26, 2017 15:02:39 GMT
This is where I get all conspiracy theory on this whole story. My gut instinct is someone in the U.S had to have helped with these ads. I'm not even pointing a finger at the Trump campaign. These ads were so targeted, down to zip codes. If U.S citizens weren't helping, then we have some really good Russian spies that have been embedded around the country for years. It's easy enough to see,especially using old Cold War tactics that Putin has expanded and updated to figure out what makes us tick as Americans, the subjects to foment divisions. Down to street by street? That reeks of local help to me. I'll bet they'll find that they did--that company owned by the Mercers--Cambridge Antalytica, they were doing the same exact thing.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Sept 26, 2017 16:36:41 GMT
If $100,000 in targeted FB ads is all it takes to change an election in this country then something is wrong. There are millions spent on the election by both parties. Not saying it didn't happen but I don't think it had as big of an influence as they are trying to make it out to be. Wrong yes, something to look into sure but it sounds a little crazy that it really had that much impact.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,034
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Sept 26, 2017 16:51:09 GMT
If $100,000 in targeted FB ads is all it takes to change an election in this country then something is wrong. There are millions spent on the election by both parties. Not saying it didn't happen but I don't think it had as big of an influence as they are trying to make it out to be. Wrong yes, something to look into sure but it sounds a little crazy that it really had that much impact. You haven't seen anyone in the past few days who believed the fake information about the NFL rule about standing for the anthem? Or the Cowboys coach's fake statement? I've seen it repeated countless times on Facebook, twitter, news comments, here, and even my own honor student teenager believed it. What about the man who drove to shoot up the pizza restaurant where Hilary was supposedly holding children and abusing them? If he took it to that level, surely there were others who believed... If advertising didn't work, tv commercials, bill boards, internet ads wouldn't exist. I know Facebook can get me to go shopping when they throw targeted ads on my feed (pier one Halloween items I'm talking about you). Dismissing it as a possibility without exposing it and studying the impacts is dangerous.
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 26, 2017 16:52:33 GMT
What many liberals don't want to accept is that you can't legislate feeling. Conduct; yes. Speech; yes. Feelings and beliefs? No.
People are going to believe what they believe and vote in accordance with those beliefs. This whole Russia thing is a red-herring. People who were going to vote for Trump were going to do so regardless of what Russia did or didn't do.
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Post by elaine on Sept 26, 2017 16:56:59 GMT
What many liberals don't want to accept is that you can't legislate feeling. Conduct; yes. Speech; yes. Feelings and beliefs? No. People are going to believe what they believe and vote in accordance with those beliefs. This whole Russia thing is a red-herring. People who were going to vote for Trump were going to do so regardless of what Russia did or didn't do. But there were many people I knew who weren’t sure who to vote for and those FB posts/stories against Hillary were what was discussed over lunch. I do think that many undecideds were influenced and they are the segment of Trump voters that are now Trump regreters - we have some on this board. If even that many more people voted for Hillary than Trump, the outcome of the electoral college may have been different.
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 26, 2017 17:12:25 GMT
I understand what you're saying about the undecideds.
A lot of what was posted was truth or interpretations of the truth just as many people do. So does it really make a difference whether the information was put out there by an American or a Russian? If people are basing their vote on the truth?
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Sept 26, 2017 18:38:29 GMT
Honestly, for me the issue isn't really the election. That's over and done.
The bigger issue for me is - we know Russia did it. We have an idea of how they did it. We're still figuring out who on the American side helped them with it, or was aware of it. And yet there are people out there who don't really care about making sure it doesn't happen again.
We were attacked. There may not have been bombs or guns involved, but it was an attack. After Pearl Harbor and 9/11, everyone understood that we had been attacked, and it was vital to figure out who did it and how we could stop it from happening again. In this case, people are denying that the attack happened and willfully turning away from determining who was involved and how we can keep it from happening again.
It's not a matter of the 2016 election. It's a matter of the 2018 election. And 2020. And 2022. And 2024. Because if we aren't at all concerned about the issue, it will come back. And next time it may not work out for 'your side.' It may not work out at all - because if Russia is able to sway voters with a few targeted ads, do you doubt for a second that they could use those same skills to divide the country in a way that weakens it? You may not care that it just changed the political leadership - but what happens when they decide to incite violence or get people to rise up against "your" guy?
No matter what the outcome of 2016, I can tell you the outcome of 2017: Russia will continue to cause mischief to disrupt and cause domestic unrest among countries around the world because it benefits them. Whether or not it helps the US is irrelevant, other than a weaker US will generally benefit Russian interests.
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Post by elaine on Sept 26, 2017 18:43:51 GMT
I understand what you're saying about the undecideds. A lot of what was posted was truth or interpretations of the truth just as many people do. So does it really make a difference whether the information was put out there by an American or a Russian? If people are basing their vote on the truth? Yes, it does to me. Because Russia bombarded our social platforms with only one slanted side of the stories to purposely throw the election in one direction - the one they thought would best serve their needs.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 26, 2017 19:11:49 GMT
Is it a coincidence that Trump also uses social issues to create more of a divide and use it to his advantage?
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Post by mellyw on Sept 26, 2017 19:27:20 GMT
This is where I get all conspiracy theory on this whole story. My gut instinct is someone in the U.S had to have helped with these ads. I'm not even pointing a finger at the Trump campaign. These ads were so targeted, down to zip codes. If U.S citizens weren't helping, then we have some really good Russian spies that have been embedded around the country for years. It's easy enough to see,especially using old Cold War tactics that Putin has expanded and updated to figure out what makes us tick as Americans, the subjects to foment divisions. Down to street by street? That reeks of local help to me. My guess is Mercer/Cambridge. Money over country. That's my guess to. And the social media section Jared Kushner was leading.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Sept 26, 2017 19:39:34 GMT
Honestly, for me the issue isn't really the election. That's over and done. The bigger issue for me is - we know Russia did it. We have an idea of how they did it. We're still figuring out who on the American side helped them with it, or was aware of it. And yet there are people out there who don't really care about making sure it doesn't happen again. We were attacked. There may not have been bombs or guns involved, but it was an attack. After Pearl Harbor and 9/11, everyone understood that we had been attacked, and it was vital to figure out who did it and how we could stop it from happening again. In this case, people are denying that the attack happened and willfully turning away from determining who was involved and how we can keep it from happening again. It's not a matter of the 2016 election. It's a matter of the 2018 election. And 2020. And 2022. And 2024. Because if we aren't at all concerned about the issue, it will come back. And next time it may not work out for 'your side.' It may not work out at all - because if Russia is able to sway voters with a few targeted ads, do you doubt for a second that they could use those same skills to divide the country in a way that weakens it? You may not care that it just changed the political leadership - but what happens when they decide to incite violence or get people to rise up against "your" guy? No matter what the outcome of 2016, I can tell you the outcome of 2017: Russia will continue to cause mischief to disrupt and cause domestic unrest among countries around the world because it benefits them. Whether or not it helps the US is irrelevant, other than a weaker US will generally benefit Russian interests. I'm certainly not saying it's ok and we should ignore it but if after spending millions on campaign ads and doing whatever they could to sway people if $100,000 in FB ads truly changed the election that's pretty scary. I guess it also means that what we saw this time around is nothing compared to what we will see the next time. Personally I thought I saw it going both ways during the election and pretty much ignored the ads. Of course I am in California so they didn't care one way or the other as there was no way California was going to vote Trump. I to hate FB or ads or in my yahoo mail. It freaks me out if I search in my phone and I see an ad for what I was looking for on my tablet or pc or vice versa just moments later.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 26, 2017 20:03:53 GMT
One ad on Facebook is forwarded, shared or discussed by how any thousands of people.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Sept 26, 2017 20:18:00 GMT
One ad on Facebook is forwarded, shared or discussed by how any thousands of people. It's not just this. They didn't just throw the ads out there to the wind. They specifically chose to show those ads to people who lived in the right place, were likely to believe and like the story, and then were likely to share the story with others of like mind. The amount of targeting that can be done with these ads is stunning. It's not as simple as a pair of ugly pants following you around after you look at them on Amazon. This person tells the story of how he targeted his roommate with ads - he never told Facebook who to show the ads to, he just microtargeted the ad so his roommate would see it. $100K doesn't go far if you're just doing a general ad campaign. But if you can make sure that the only people who see your ads will a) live in a swing state b) be possible Trump supporters c) be likely voters d) be likely to share anti-Hillary stories e) have friends who are also likely to spread those stories You can go really, really far with $100K. If people realized just how closely they can be targeted on social media, it would cause some major freak-outs. Imagine that you were a llama rancher in Kentucky who happens to enjoy the McRib sandwich and a bottle of 1972 red wine. If you saw ads on your FB for any one of those things, no biggie. But if you saw an ad about a new Kentucky restaurant that serves McRib sandwiches with 1972 red wine while llamas roam outside a picture window, you'd feel pretty uncomfortable.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 26, 2017 20:31:20 GMT
Oh, I know they were targeted ads, but my thought was that beyond the targets they were shared way farther.
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 26, 2017 20:38:32 GMT
I have no problem with social media being used. Targeted ads are used by any number of commercial and political agencies.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 17:17:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 21:14:46 GMT
Honestly, for me the issue isn't really the election. That's over and done. The bigger issue for me is - we know Russia did it. We have an idea of how they did it. We're still figuring out who on the American side helped them with it, or was aware of it. And yet there are people out there who don't really care about making sure it doesn't happen again. We were attacked. There may not have been bombs or guns involved, but it was an attack. After Pearl Harbor and 9/11, everyone understood that we had been attacked, and it was vital to figure out who did it and how we could stop it from happening again. In this case, people are denying that the attack happened and willfully turning away from determining who was involved and how we can keep it from happening again. It's not a matter of the 2016 election. It's a matter of the 2018 election. And 2020. And 2022. And 2024. Because if we aren't at all concerned about the issue, it will come back. And next time it may not work out for 'your side.' It may not work out at all - because if Russia is able to sway voters with a few targeted ads, do you doubt for a second that they could use those same skills to divide the country in a way that weakens it? You may not care that it just changed the political leadership - but what happens when they decide to incite violence or get people to rise up against "your" guy? No matter what the outcome of 2016, I can tell you the outcome of 2017: Russia will continue to cause mischief to disrupt and cause domestic unrest among countries around the world because it benefits them. Whether or not it helps the US is irrelevant, other than a weaker US will generally benefit Russian interests. This is my concern as well. People just want to pretend we can just grit our teeth and get through the Trump presidency, as if it's some anomaly that will never happen again. It is ALL that will happen from here on out and it will bring us down as a nation if we can't figure out ways to get the money out of politics, get the country to a more equitable place, and make the presidency less inviting to the next narcissistic billionaire who will use it to enrich him/herself and his/her family while getting bragging rights among his/her cronies.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Sept 26, 2017 21:43:26 GMT
It still stuns me that someone could feel that targeted ads on behalf of a foreign adversary would be OK.
Hanoi Hannah Axis Sally Tokyo Rose Baghdad Bob
Back in the day, radio was used by the enemy to sway people to their side. Now, we have targeted ads on social media. The purchasers of the ads are not our friends, and their goals are not those of the United States.
Russia is not our ally. Putin is not our friend.
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 26, 2017 21:50:38 GMT
They are ads. I don't believe Putin is our ally or our friend, but how should we stop someone from posting a facebook targeted ad? And if the content of the ads is true, then I really don't see why you're upset. If it's false, that's a different story but it seems like you believe the American public has been "manipulated" by the truth and that 0that's a horrible thing. Really? Or am I not understanding what you're saying?
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 26, 2017 21:55:16 GMT
They are ads. I don't believe Putin is our ally or our friend, but how should we stop someone from posting a facebook targeted ad? And if the content of the ads is true, then I really don't see why you're upset. If it's false, that's a different story but it seems like you believe the American public has been "manipulated" by the truth and that 0that's a horrible thing. Really? Or am I not understanding what you're saying? You are the target audience.
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Post by epeanymous on Sept 26, 2017 22:00:57 GMT
It still stuns me that someone could feel that targeted ads on behalf of a foreign adversary would be OK. Hanoi Hannah Axis Sally Tokyo Rose Baghdad Bob Back in the day, radio was used by the enemy to sway people to their side. Now, we have targeted ads on social media. The purchasers of the ads are not our friends, and their goals are not those of the United States. Russia is not our ally. Putin is not our friend.I get the feeling that for some folks, the enemy of their enemy is their friend, and the enemy that they perceive is Democrats.
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 26, 2017 22:01:22 GMT
I'm sure you mean that as an insult but unlike you, I'm not offended by everything someone who doesn't agree with me says.
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 26, 2017 22:02:33 GMT
It still stuns me that someone could feel that targeted ads on behalf of a foreign adversary would be OK. Hanoi Hannah Axis Sally Tokyo Rose Baghdad Bob Back in the day, radio was used by the enemy to sway people to their side. Now, we have targeted ads on social media. The purchasers of the ads are not our friends, and their goals are not those of the United States. Russia is not our ally. Putin is not our friend.I get the feeling that for some folks, the enemy of their enemy is their friend, and the enemy that they perceive is Democrats. That plays both ways. People here who hate Trump have made it very clear that anyone who voted for him is their enemy. Actually, anyone who doesn't agree with every aspect of the social justice warrior agenda is "the enemy".
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 26, 2017 22:05:40 GMT
What many liberals don't want to accept is that you can't legislate feeling. Conduct; yes. Speech; yes. Feelings and beliefs? No. People are going to believe what they believe and vote in accordance with those beliefs. This whole Russia thing is a red-herring. People who were going to vote for Trump were going to do so regardless of what Russia did or didn't do. I know several Republicans that were not going to vote for Trump but changed their choice after posting crazy FB stories. We will have to see if these were some of the Russian ads or not. I have not made up my mind if this was a red-herring or not. I hope that people wait for the actual evidence before they say whether something is true or not. How would one know so soon?
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Post by gar on Sept 26, 2017 22:06:59 GMT
It goes without saying that these weren't 'ads' as in recognisable ads, they were made to look like news, facts, reports and polls etc.
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