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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Oct 25, 2017 17:26:54 GMT
Has the family confirmed dementia or Alzheimer's? I think it would be the brave choice to do so. It's really any family's decision on whether to announce a diagnosis of dementia or Alzheimer's. While some see it as brave to do so, others view it as an invasion of privacy. As far as a Bush announcement on his condition, there has been none here that I'm aware of. He does appear to be quite frail though. I'll admit that I just skimmed the article but I question the term "assault" A 90-something year old man in a wheelchair? I realize that what he allegedly did was completely inappropriate, but I would not classify it as "sexual assault". I worry that that term is going to get tossed around too much - it loses its impact.I agree with you. This is happening in the media now with these and other phrases and the result is that many just tune it out when they hear it.
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rickmer
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Jul 1, 2014 20:20:18 GMT
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Post by rickmer on Oct 25, 2017 17:35:22 GMT
my grandfather was in the beginning stages of alzheimers and we didn't know it. i visited him in the hospital and when i walked in he made some comment about "look at the gams on you!!!". my response was wth just happened?? in was in my early 20s and my grandfather a) rarely even addressed me directly b) had never said anything remotely sexual in any capacity never mind this comment. he was so excited... i was waiting for him to follow with a "hubba hubba".
my mom was a nurse and did geriatric care and urology. lots of old men! she said it is very common.
and i do agree - i would not be consider it sexual assault.
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zella
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Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Oct 25, 2017 20:38:39 GMT
Acting out in sexual ways is a fairly common behavior trait seen with severe dementia. I wouldn't assume that the person behaved that way prior to the dementia. Hopefully that is the case here.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 5:57:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 21:09:00 GMT
Oh for goodness sake, the man was 89 when this happened. So he accidentally touched her bottom, he was in a damn wheelchair and made a bit of a joke about it by all accounts and she interprets this as sexual assault? She really needs to get a life if she can't cope with that. She's doing a serious injustice to the many that ARE actually sexually assaulted.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Oct 25, 2017 21:13:49 GMT
Well he certainly couldn't put his arm/hand around her shoulders while sitting in a wheelchair!!
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Deleted
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May 3, 2024 5:57:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 22:32:16 GMT
To play this from the other side.
My husband's father is in full possession of his faculties. And he is banned from at least 3 restaurants/casinos that we know of. We also know that he was threaten with arrest if he didn't leave one woman( waitress) alone.
All this from a then 80 year old man who seemed to be a but wobbly and no harm to anyone. He honestly believes that he is entitled to this behavior because nobody ever called him out on it when he was younger.
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Post by Merge on Oct 25, 2017 22:51:31 GMT
I would think dementia. I think we have to make allowances for old and/or disabled people and children who may not fully understand their actions.
I have a special needs 5th grader who grabs my boobs on a regular basis, and I don't consider it assault.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Oct 25, 2017 22:56:48 GMT
A friend of mine was warned a few times that her 85 year old mom who was going to adult daycare was getting way too cozy with some of the male seniors in the program. It was absolutely dementia related because up until she needed more care during the day she was the most prim and proper little lady you could ever know. Once she started losing it, all bets were off. I’m sure her younger self would have been totally horrified by some of the things the staff told her daughter she did! Even my mom in her later days completely lost her filter. She would spout off some of the rudest things when we were out in public at times, things she would never have dreamed of thinking much less saying out loud when she was younger. It’s definitely a thing.
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tduby1
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Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Oct 25, 2017 22:58:23 GMT
To play this from the other side. My husband's father is in full possession of his faculties. And he is banned from at least 3 restaurants/casinos that we know of. We also know that he was threaten with arrest if he didn't leave one woman( waitress) alone. All this from a then 80 year old man who seemed to be a but wobbly and no harm to anyone. He honestly believes that he is entitled to this behavior because nobody ever called him out on it when he was younger. The difference is your FIL has a long established pattern of this behavior, Mr. bush does not.
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Post by myboysnme on Oct 25, 2017 23:01:22 GMT
One of the earliest manifestations of dementia for my stepdad was loss of his frontal lobe - the area that controls inhibition and social cues. He became very sexually inappropriate. I remember him seeing a picture of an actress in the newspaper - a small black and white photo and going on and on about how attractive she was. He also started ignoring traffic signals, and just about anything you would use your impulse control for.
In all my work with people with dementia, I have not seen people who suddenly become sexually inappropriate without having the brain significantly affected.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Oct 25, 2017 23:05:03 GMT
DHs grandma told our niece that kids these days are crazy to be getting their tongues pierced, if she was them she'd be getting her "vagina pierced". Rofl! She also made some pretty off color comments to my sis in law. It was definitely the dementia. She was very conservative prior to that setting in. I had forgotten all about that till this discussion.
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scrappinmama
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Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Oct 25, 2017 23:35:49 GMT
This makes me sad. I always liked George Bush, even though I did not agree with him politically. He seemed like a very kind person who loved his family. It does sound like he has dementia now. As for this actress, she needs to get over herself. It angers me that she is throwing around the term sexual assault. It minimizes the impact of the word. Real sexual assault is devastating the the victim. If this actress wants to know what real sexual assault is, she should speak to a survivor. Now was what he did inappropriate? Absolutely it was. But it was not assault.
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Post by beebee on Oct 26, 2017 0:43:37 GMT
A friend of mine was warned a few times that her 85 year old mom who was going to adult daycare was getting way too cozy with some of the male seniors in the program. It was absolutely dementia related because up until she needed more care during the day she was the most prim and proper little lady you could ever know. Once she started losing it, all bets were off. I’m sure her younger self would have been totally horrified by some of the things the staff told her daughter she did! Even my mom in her later days completely lost her filter. She would spout off some of the rudest things when we were out in public at times, things she would never have dreamed of thinking much less saying out loud when she was younger. It’s definitely a thing. Yep, we grabbed a bit to eat after taking my grandfather to a doctor's appointment this week. He told our waitress that her socks were dirty and told another lady that she was looking old as she walked by. I was about to melt under the table. He got angry when my mom told him that he was being rude. I cannot emphasis enough that this WAS NOT my grandfather when he was in his right mind.
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Post by zztop11 on Oct 26, 2017 2:23:47 GMT
I agree that even Harassment as a term is questionable here. I consider harassment as a continued, repeated behavior. That is correct. When I was teaching health in our sex ed. unit, we discussed sexual harassment. I remember the definition included that it happened over and over.
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Post by Jennifer C on Oct 26, 2017 2:42:37 GMT
I'm on the bench with people that say this incident is being blown way out of proportion. She needs to get over herself. A man sitting in a wheelchair put his arm around her.
I think she just wants her name in the papers.
Jennifer
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Post by femalebusiness on Oct 26, 2017 3:14:41 GMT
I have no idea if he was inappropriate with Heather Lind or not, nor whether he has dementia but I thought it was common knowledge that he had a mistress for many years. So he's not squeaky clean.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Oct 26, 2017 3:44:08 GMT
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azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Oct 26, 2017 3:53:49 GMT
This makes me sad. I always liked George Bush, even though I did not agree with him politically. He seemed like a very kind person who loved his family. It does sound like he has dementia now. As for this actress, she needs to get over herself. It angers me that she is throwing around the term sexual assault. It minimizes the impact of the word. Real sexual assault is devastating the the victim. If this actress wants to know what real sexual assault is, she should speak to a survivor. Now was what he did inappropriate? Absolutely it was. But it was not assault. totally blown out of proportion. Agree with everything you said! ohh and ETA my grandpa was feeling up hospice nurses in the last weeks of his life as well. He was the same age. Different complications with alzhemers but similar unusual behaviors the last few weeks.
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Post by burningfeather on Oct 26, 2017 3:58:12 GMT
Funny that they are both actresses. Get back to me when it's a nurse or the cleaning lady at the hospital... Someone who doesn't have a stake in getting media attention.
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Post by Night Owl on Oct 26, 2017 4:09:25 GMT
He had a long time mistress that was his assistant in the White House and Barbara knew about it, people have looked the other way a lot.
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inkedup
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Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Oct 26, 2017 4:11:39 GMT
Funny that they are both actresses. Get back to me when it's a nurse or the cleaning lady at the hospital... Someone who doesn't have a stake in getting media attention. Yes, it seems like so many of the women who are coming out of the woodwork are trying to raise their public profile. I have been sexually assaulted, I have been sexually harassed, and I have had my butt grabbed many times in my life. To call a dirty joke and a pat on the butt an assault is an insult to those of us who have survived actual assault. Assault is violent and terrifying. Some guy (old or young) grabbing your butt is offensive and annoying, but I've never feared for my life when it's happened to me. Huge difference.
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Post by pondrunner on Oct 26, 2017 12:04:04 GMT
Wait wait wait, hold up.
Because she is an actress not a nurse Because it only happened once Because it wasn't like he raped her
She shouldn't speak up and say that she was touched in a way that was not appropriate? That takes it too far because her complaint just isn't legitimate enough?
This is why #metoo even exists, because women have been told for a long time that we are overreacting when we are treated as objects to be handled, that covers a lot of different experiences from inappropriate words to forcible rape and a lot in between including groping, being rubbed against in the subway, and other things that might only happen once and might be "just annoying" but still isn't okay. Of course forcible rape is different than having someone grab your ass, but that doesn't make groping okay.
To me, #metoo is about asserting my right to exist in the world without being touched, spoken to, or otherwise treated in a way that I don't consent to. Grabbing my ass even once is not something I consent to and I object to the idea that any woman isn't important enough to say someone touched me in a way I didn't consent to and that's not okay.
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tduby1
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Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Oct 26, 2017 14:08:14 GMT
I have no idea if he was inappropriate with Heather Lind or not, nor whether he has dementia but I thought it was common knowledge that he had a mistress for many years. So he's not squeaky clean. I had never heard this before.
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Post by burningfeather on Oct 26, 2017 15:14:57 GMT
Wait wait wait, hold up. Because she is an actress not a nurse Because it only happened once Because it wasn't like he raped her She shouldn't speak up and say that she was touched in a way that was not appropriate? Not at all. But an "actress" (two as a matter of fact) has a stake in being in the spotlight. Joining in on a current national movement is a great way to make sure she gets interviews and attention. I find it curious that the only two people to come forward - four years after the fact - are actresses. Harvey Weinstein was a bit of a different situation. People knew what was going on at the time and he held great power. What power did President Bush hold at 89 and in a wheelchair? He couldn't negatively impact this woman's career like Weinstein could. As for whether he did or didn't have a mistress, that's a far, far jump from mistress to sexually assaulting random actresses.
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Post by femalebusiness on Oct 26, 2017 15:25:10 GMT
I have no idea if he was inappropriate with Heather Lind or not, nor whether he has dementia but I thought it was common knowledge that he had a mistress for many years. So he's not squeaky clean. I had never heard this before. I heard it when he was president and supposedly it was well known in DC. Google George H. W. Bush and mistress. The stories are out there.
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Post by pondrunner on Oct 26, 2017 15:30:30 GMT
Wait wait wait, hold up. Because she is an actress not a nurse Because it only happened once Because it wasn't like he raped her She shouldn't speak up and say that she was touched in a way that was not appropriate? Not at all. But an "actress" (two as a matter of fact) has a stake in being in the spotlight. Joining in on a current national movement is a great way to make sure she gets interviews and attention. I find it curious that the only two people to come forward - four years after the fact - are actresses. Harvey Weinstein was a bit of a different situation. People knew what was going on at the time and he held great power. What power did President Bush hold at 89 and in a wheelchair? He couldn't negatively impact this woman's career like Weinstein could. As for whether he did or didn't have a mistress, that's a far, far jump from mistress to sexually assaulting random actresses. What power did the former President of the United States have? That might keep a woman from speaking up when he touched her in a way she didn't consent to? Why on earth would she not speak up? Regardless of his current health status this is a man with prestige and privilege.
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Post by *KAS* on Oct 26, 2017 15:38:43 GMT
I have to agree with others - I read this report and rolled my eyes. Looking at the picture, it does look like his arm is around her, but he's sitting in a wheel chair and that's just where his arm is going to be. Maybe it's not appropriate, and maybe he did tell a "dirty joke" that wasn't OK, but I'm inclined to believe that he has dementia as well and that this is going a little over board. is it wrong that I want to know what the 'dirty joke' was? I mean, was it like xxx bad? Or was it just crude and inappropriate? SaveSaveThe joke was a cheesy 90-year-old joke Know who my favorite magician is? David Cop-a-feel Or something like that. He probably said the joke, and patted her butt. He was 89, retired, in a wheelchair, and not in the greatest health. To call that 'sexual assault' and bring it up 5 years later is a complete disservice to people that have been sexually assaulted. I understand it could have made her uncomfortable, but come on..... Harvey Weinstein is different b/c of the power and influence he had (until about a week ago) over these women and their careers.
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Post by mom on Oct 26, 2017 15:45:56 GMT
is it wrong that I want to know what the 'dirty joke' was? I mean, was it like xxx bad? Or was it just crude and inappropriate? SaveSaveThe joke was a cheesy 90-year-old joke Know who my favorite magician is? David Cop-a-feel Or something like that. He probably said the joke, and patted her butt. He was 89, retired, in a wheelchair, and not in the greatest health. To call that 'sexual assault' and bring it up 5 years later is a complete disservice to people that have been sexually assaulted. I understand it could have made her uncomfortable, but come on..... Harvey Weinstein is different b/c of the power and influence he had (until about a week ago) over these women and their careers. I was just reading about this. I agree. She is completely doing a disservice to those who have truly been sexually assaulted. SaveSave
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tduby1
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Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Oct 26, 2017 16:13:54 GMT
I had never heard this before. I heard it when he was president and supposedly it was well known in DC. Google George H. W. Bush and mistress. The stories are out there. Yes, after reading this post I started researching it. I am shocked! I had never heard that before but it does appear to be true.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Oct 26, 2017 16:22:31 GMT
Not to negate how these other women may or may not have felt at the time, but if a 90 year old man told me that corny joke and patted my behind I think I would probably laugh and chalk it up to old manism, ex-president or not. But that is just my sense of humor. I am pretty sure I would not appreciate if someone my own age did it, and I can't really explain the difference in my mind.
I have a confession: I am a butt popper. Often as I walk by one of siblings, my dh, my kids, I pop them on the butt. (I don't pop random people, but I confess I have caught myself ready to pop a co worker. When I told her she cracked up, but she is also a long time friend). At my brother's wedding Sat evening I popped my younger brother on the butt TWICE! Yesterday, I started wondering if he thought that was weird/ assaultish, or if anyone else around would have. I texted him and asked, He laughed at me. I guess he is used to me.
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