tduby1
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Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Oct 25, 2017 14:12:29 GMT
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naby64
Drama Llama
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Jun 25, 2014 21:44:13 GMT
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Post by naby64 on Oct 25, 2017 14:22:28 GMT
I haven't clicked the link but can only answer the dementia question. Yes, it can make you act out of character. My never said a cuss word grandmother had dementia/Alzhiemers(sp) and she got to where she would cuss like a sailor if she didn't like something or didn't get her way. She regressed in acting to child like ways. To the rest of Pres Bush, I couldn't say.
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Post by 16joy on Oct 25, 2017 14:36:40 GMT
Yes, dementia can make you become a totally different person. I know a woman who spits at people, trys to kick staff, throws her utensils (she's given plasticware now), steals food from table mates' plates, and takes her shirt off in the common areas when she gets hot. There's more but that gives you an idea of how things change.
i read about this 2 days ago on dailymail. I read more US news there first and then a couple of days later our mainstream media reports. i shake my head. Isn't this girl the age of his grandchildren? What was he thinking? I hope he has dementia and it explains this. If not, he's another HW.
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Post by marzbar71 on Oct 25, 2017 15:03:43 GMT
I'll admit that I just skimmed the article but I question the term "assault" A 90-something year old man in a wheelchair? I realize that what he allegedly did was completely inappropriate, but I would not classify it as "sexual assault". I worry that that term is going to get tossed around too much - it loses its impact.
Putting on my fireproof suit......
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Peamac
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Jun 26, 2014 0:09:18 GMT
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Post by Peamac on Oct 25, 2017 15:08:35 GMT
I know a godly pastor in his 90's in a nursing home that exposed himself to the nurses- definitely his dementia. My sisters worked in a nursing home in high school and had interesting experiences with some of the patients due to dementia (none that were sexual harrassment, though).
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Post by Skellinton on Oct 25, 2017 15:11:49 GMT
I'll admit that I just skimmed the article but I question the term "assault" A 90-something year old man in a wheelchair? I realize that what he allegedly did was completely inappropriate, but I would not classify it as "sexual assault". I worry that that term is going to get tossed around too much - it loses its impact. Putting on my fireproof suit...... I am with you. This should be considered harassment, I do think assault is going to far. Kind of like when bullying became the hot button word a few years ago. Words quickly lose their meaning and impact when everything is labeled a certain way.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Oct 25, 2017 15:13:14 GMT
Could it be dementia and does dementia cause you to act out of character or in character but more blatant, if that makes sense? This was my first thought! I have dealt with some elderly people who did do this and they would have been horrified in the past that was what was coming in their future! Totally out of character!!
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Post by lucillebluth on Oct 25, 2017 15:18:50 GMT
I'll admit that I just skimmed the article but I question the term "assault" A 90-something year old man in a wheelchair? I realize that what he allegedly did was completely inappropriate, but I would not classify it as "sexual assault". I worry that that term is going to get tossed around too much - it loses its impact. Putting on my fireproof suit...... I am with you. This should be considered harassment, I do think assault is going to far. Kind of like when bullying became the hot button word a few years ago. Words quickly lose their meaning and impact when everything is labeled a certain way. Me, too. I even think harassment is going too far, since this was likely a result of encroaching dementia.
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Post by marzbar71 on Oct 25, 2017 15:20:32 GMT
I agree that even Harassment as a term is questionable here. I consider harassment as a continued, repeated behavior.
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Post by mom on Oct 25, 2017 15:27:59 GMT
I am really surprised and disappointed by this. I don't want to excuse what he may have done -but I do wonder about his mental capabilities.
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moodyblue
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Location: Western Illinois
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Oct 25, 2017 15:28:39 GMT
I think she has gone overboard in her accusations. It's most likely that he behaves inappropriately because of some level of dementia, which is not at all uncommon. I don't like to make excuses for people, including former presidents, but it does seem like this is dementia-related, without real intent or awareness of wrong-doing.
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,861
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on Oct 25, 2017 15:38:04 GMT
I have to agree with others - I read this report and rolled my eyes. Looking at the picture, it does look like his arm is around her, but he's sitting in a wheel chair and that's just where his arm is going to be. Maybe it's not appropriate, and maybe he did tell a "dirty joke" that wasn't OK, but I'm inclined to believe that he has dementia as well and that this is going a little over board.
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Post by mom on Oct 25, 2017 15:41:33 GMT
I have to agree with others - I read this report and rolled my eyes. Looking at the picture, it does look like his arm is around her, but he's sitting in a wheel chair and that's just where his arm is going to be. Maybe it's not appropriate, and maybe he did tell a "dirty joke" that wasn't OK, but I'm inclined to believe that he has dementia as well and that this is going a little over board. is it wrong that I want to know what the 'dirty joke' was? I mean, was it like xxx bad? Or was it just crude and inappropriate? SaveSave
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Post by refugeepea on Oct 25, 2017 15:49:17 GMT
Yes it can. I used to work at an assisted living center. It's hard to know sometimes. Doesn't he have a form of Parkinsons? With some types dementia is also common. What I find disturbing is Mrs. Bush or the security guard offered no explanation of his behavior. That would make me wonder.
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Post by annabella on Oct 25, 2017 15:52:33 GMT
I'll admit that I just skimmed the article but I question the term "assault" A 90-something year old man in a wheelchair? I realize that what he allegedly did was completely inappropriate, but I would not classify it as "sexual assault". I worry that that term is going to get tossed around too much - it loses its impact. Putting on my fireproof suit...... I agree with you as this was my first thought as well. I'm no Bush fan, but I believe his medical condition came into play here. I think she completely over blew it and now her post is deleted. Everyone is trying to be relevant these days.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Oct 25, 2017 15:53:31 GMT
I think she has gone overboard in her accusations. It's most likely that he behaves inappropriately because of some level of dementia, which is not at all uncommon. I don't like to make excuses for people, including former presidents, but it does seem like this is dementia-related, without real intent or awareness of wrong-doing. at age 90 ish when this happened, with not even a hint of impropriety prior to this, dementia does seem the likely culprit. I mean, someone at some point, would have come forward years ago if this was behavior true to him. His spokesman apologized (did not deny) to her and said he would never intentionally make some feel uncomfortable. Reading between the lines, I do wonder if intentionally is the key word here. I've also read she has since deleted her post. That makes me wonder if she has been made aware of some extenuating circumstances (dementia, perhaps) that she was not aware of prior.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Oct 25, 2017 15:54:47 GMT
Yes it can. I used to work at an assisted living center. It's hard to know sometimes. Doesn't he have a form of Parkinsons? With some types dementia is also common. What I find disturbing is Mrs. Bush or the security guard offered no explanation of his behavior. That would make me wonder. If it is dementia, that doesn't surprise me. People tend to be denial about that and perhaps that was the case. Or perhaps, they felt they were preserving his dignity.
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Post by librarylady on Oct 25, 2017 15:54:54 GMT
I agree that calling it an assault is a bit too much. Sexual harassment is more what I consider that to be.
I think that many older people loose all inhibitions and do things out of character. I have been told that the Rx some elderly take makes them forget what is appropriate and what is not.
Personally, I also add into that the desire for an older person to show they still have vitality. In his case, perhaps it is the old saying of "There may be snow on the roof, but there is still fire in the chimney."
There is a reason why our society has plenty of stories about "dirty old men."
He would have been 90 when this happened.
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Post by peasapie on Oct 25, 2017 16:02:20 GMT
I read this today and assumed it was a dementia kind of thing. He's 93.
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Post by refugeepea on Oct 25, 2017 16:04:03 GMT
If it is dementia, that doesn't surprise me. People tend to be denial about that and perhaps that was the case. Or perhaps, they felt they were preserving his dignity. I guess I believe in a more direct approach. If its a medical condition, there shouldn't be anything to hide. They shouldn't be ashamed he has dementia. Leave him his dignity, if you know he will respond badly to calling him out. Still, a quick comment away from him would have been appropriate Now, here we are 3 years later with an article going nation wide.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Oct 25, 2017 16:06:01 GMT
If it is dementia, that doesn't surprise me. People tend to be denial about that and perhaps that was the case. Or perhaps, they felt they were preserving his dignity. I guess I believe in a more direct approach. If its a medical condition, there shouldn't be anything to hide. They shouldn't be ashamed he has dementia. Leave him his dignity, if you know he will respond badly to calling him out. Still, a quick comment away from him would have been appropriate Now, here we are 3 years later with an article going nation wide. I don't disagree. Was just offering what their mindset might have been at that time. If that was the case, I suspect now, in hindsight there is some regret.
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Post by smokeynspike on Oct 25, 2017 16:14:57 GMT
I am really disliking the #metoo campaign right now. I am of the opinion that if you really have been assaulted or harassed you take care of that legally or through counseling or some other manner. Not publically throwing someones name in the mud on the internet when they don't have the chance to refute it. The person is judged guilty without due process. We all know how the internet is and how witch hunt-like things can progress. And not everybody is honest. Some are looking for payouts. Some of these women are going to be opening themselves up for legal suits of their own for libel or slander soon if names are attached to alleged events.
And none of this opinion has anything to do with actual harassment or assault. I'm a woman too. I would never toss those words around for some of the events that I keep seeing. They are serious and have huge weight to them. Thought needs to go into using them correctly.
Melissa
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Oct 25, 2017 16:17:58 GMT
I think she has gone overboard in her accusations. It's most likely that he behaves inappropriately because of some level of dementia, which is not at all uncommon. I don't like to make excuses for people, including former presidents, but it does seem like this is dementia-related, without real intent or awareness of wrong-doing. I agree. I feel bad for him and his family that this is being brought up in this way at this time if this is the case.
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Post by burningfeather on Oct 25, 2017 16:26:58 GMT
Yes it can. I used to work at an assisted living center. It's hard to know sometimes. Doesn't he have a form of Parkinsons? With some types dementia is also common. What I find disturbing is Mrs. Bush or the security guard offered no explanation of his behavior. That would make me wonder. That's assuming it happened the way that she says. I find it highly questionable that she interprets an eyeroll by Mrs. Bush to indicate that this was some sort of regular behavior. Secondly, I find the timing a little too convenient. George Bush, as far as I've ever heard, has never been accused of any sort of inappropriate behavior or telling of off color jokes. That doesn't mean, of course, that it couldn't be some sort of dementia, but that makes coming forward with something like this 4 years later even less appropriate.
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casii
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Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Oct 25, 2017 16:34:59 GMT
Has the family confirmed dementia or Alzheimer's? I think it would be the brave choice to do so. My FIL had Alzheimer's and acted out in ways that would previously have shamed him. My mom, we think, has dementia and you wouldn't believe the stuff that comes out of her mouth. She turns every conversation she can into a sexual interrogation. If she were 40, she'd die to hear herself.
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Post by refugeepea on Oct 25, 2017 16:47:42 GMT
That's assuming it happened the way that she says. I find it highly questionable that she interprets an eyeroll by Mrs. Bush to indicate that this was some sort of regular behavior. Yes, the eye roll could mean other things but the security guard saying she shouldn't have stood by him. With him being a public figure for so long, it seems like there would at least be rumors so I lean more towards dementia. When I worked at that facility, it really opened my eyes to people who played their "forgetfulness". In one building, the kitchen area was open to the living space. A resident targeted a specific CNA and she had me stand out of his eyesight so I would be a witness to what he said to her. It was disgusting. The terms he used, I didn't know an almost 100 year old man knew. He only did it when she was alone. She repeatedly told him to please not talk like that, it wasn't appropriate, and it made him talk dirtier.
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AmandaA
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Aug 28, 2015 22:31:17 GMT
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Post by AmandaA on Oct 25, 2017 16:54:51 GMT
Before we started our clinical rotation in the nursing home, out instructor prepared all of the young, naive nursing students for what we should expect. Bring in a fresh batch of 19-20 year old girls in their cute little uniforms and a lot of things were said and hands perhaps put where they didn't belong. Some of them had more control of their mental faculties than others. I would never claim abuse, harassment, or #metoo from my personal experiences in those situations. To me that is an entirely different circumstance and really diminishes the significance of other women's experiences.
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tracylynn
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Posts: 4,861
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on Oct 25, 2017 17:10:43 GMT
I am really disliking the #metoo campaign right now. I am of the opinion that if you really have been assaulted or harassed you take care of that legally or through counseling or some other manner. Not publically throwing someones name in the mud on the internet when they don't have the chance to refute it. The person is judged guilty without due process. We all know how the internet is and how witch hunt-like things can progress. And not everybody is honest. Some are looking for payouts. Some of these women are going to be opening themselves up for legal suits of their own for libel or slander soon if names are attached to alleged events. And none of this opinion has anything to do with actual harassment or assault. I'm a woman too. I would never toss those words around for some of the events that I keep seeing. They are serious and have huge weight to them. Thought needs to go into using them correctly. Melissa It's unfortunate that some of the people who are doing #metoo are choosing to name names. I'm not sure that was really the intent of the campaign.
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mallie
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Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on Oct 25, 2017 17:11:08 GMT
I have certainly seen it in both men and women. Just 2 examples.
I have a friend whose mother was a pastor's wife and was very conservative in every possible way. She got Alzheimer's and changed into a totally different and deeply obnoxious person -- loud mouth racist, bigoted against anyone not white American, delusional, highly sexual, She liked to take her clothes off and rub up against any male in the area (including an obviously teenage boy), and so on. She would also try to get out of the locked facility all the time while she was naked to find men to have sex with (only said in a far more crude way.
My own grandfather would say and do wildly inappropriate things after he had his 3rd stroke. He had never said anything racist or sexual in our presence, but suddenly, he did. He would also touch himself, etc.
Very sad, but also true. Also true that you really should not take offense at the behaviors -- people are not in their right minds.
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Post by beebee on Oct 25, 2017 17:18:22 GMT
I am having a hard time with this accusation. My grandfather is in a memory care home. We visit him several times a week. My grandfather was the sweetest man most of his life. These past few years, when you walk in, you don't know if you will get the nice grandfather or the cussing and angry grandfather. It is hard. There is another man there that always makes a beeline for any woman that walks in. He is inappropriate and makes me feel uncomfortable, but he is old and has dementia. I can't imagine throwing an accusation out there that would hurt his family. It is hard enough as it is. Maybe he was like that when he was young and maybe he wasn't, but at 90 years old, I just don't think that is the time to malign a person's character.
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