smcast
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,333
Location: MN
Mar 18, 2016 14:06:38 GMT
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Post by smcast on Jan 2, 2018 14:30:36 GMT
I wonder if the flippant attitude comes because the term depression is tossed around a lot. What do those of you who are diagnosed with clinical, not situational, depression think? Is the term loosely used on medical charts?
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Jan 2, 2018 14:34:23 GMT
I say this a lot but we tend to think other people are like we are. Now my personal goal in life is to not say or do anything that would make another person uncomfortable.
However, I truly do not understand severe depression and I take Celera for my fibromyalgia. My dx'ing Dr said fibromyalgia sufferers had been through so many "it's all in your head" experiences they were now considered clinicaly depressed class of people. Who am I to say I'm not depressed but I've never felt I am. I wake each morning, eager for a new day. I'm one of those perhaps annoying people who say I choose to be happy. Probably especially annoying to the Mr. Negative I'm married to.
To all who suffer with difficult mental trauma, I hope there is a medication that will help each of you cope.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jan 2, 2018 14:48:57 GMT
I wonder if the flippant attitude comes because the term depression is tossed around a lot. What do those of you who are diagnosed with clinical, not situational, depression think? Is the term loosely used on medical charts? I think it is. I am a firm believer that mental illness should only be diagnosed and treated by a psychiatrist. I am against general practice docs prescribing psychiatric meds. I have seen way too many situations where someone presents like they have depression and then is prescribed an antidepressant and ends up pushed off the deep end because they really need a mood stabilizer. I also think counseling is critical. I think that there are times when medication isn't enough and you need tools to cope. Plus, I think some depression is situational and issues should be dealt with in counseling.
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smcast
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,333
Location: MN
Mar 18, 2016 14:06:38 GMT
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Post by smcast on Jan 2, 2018 14:57:29 GMT
I wonder if the flippant attitude comes because the term depression is tossed around a lot. What do those of you who are diagnosed with clinical, not situational, depression think? Is the term loosely used on medical charts? I think it is. I am a firm believer that mental illness should only be diagnosed and treated by a psychiatrist. I am against general practice docs prescribing psychiatric meds. I have seen way too many situations where someone presents like they have depression and then is prescribed an antidepressant and ends up pushed off the deep end because they really need a mood stabilizer. I also think counseling is critical. I think that there are times when medication isn't enough and you need tools to cope. Plus, I think some depression is situational and issues should be dealt with in counseling. This is what I think but didn't want to say too much because I haven't personally experienced it. I see the majority of H&Ps at the hospital list depression and/anxiety and think its overkill. Go to a doctor, they throw a pill at you. A little biased, I know I have them. I'm a big proponent for positive coping skills and other modalities to treat people. Everyone's different.
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Post by mrsscrapdiva on Jan 2, 2018 15:10:52 GMT
Yes, my own parents and dh.
"Just go for a walk, you will feel better" "I don't know why you would be depressed, you have nothing in your life to make you sad" "if you lost weight you would feel better" "I don't know why that makes you anxious, just don't let it bother you"
Thank goodness for my best friend, who 100% gets it, and online support I have found in various places, my doctors and counselling.
I think a little empathy or a hug would be so much more kind rather than advice that is thought to be helpful but comes across completely in the wrong way. I feel like when the rude comments are said, just shoot me while I am down.
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Post by lbp on Jan 2, 2018 15:37:12 GMT
Yes, my own parents and dh. "Just go for a walk, you will feel better" "I don't know why you would be depressed, you have nothing in your life to make you sad" "if you lost weight you would feel better" "I don't know why that makes you anxious, just don't let it bother you" Thank goodness for my best friend, who 100% gets it, and online support I have found in various places, my doctors and counselling. I think a little empathy or a hug would be so much more kind rather than advice that is thought to be helpful but comes across completely in the wrong way. I feel like when the rude comments are said, just shoot me while I am down. I do not suffer from depression, but I do have anxiety issues. However I have several family members and friends who have depression. What am I supposed to say to them? I say I'm sorry, I give hugs, but I really don't know what to do to help. Exercise, redirection, etc.. help with my anxiety, does this help with depression? What advice would you give to someone who wants to help a friend with depression. Your family and friends may think they are helping by saying exercise, go for a walk, etc.
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Post by not2peased on Jan 2, 2018 15:46:16 GMT
Yes, my own parents and dh. "Just go for a walk, you will feel better" "I don't know why you would be depressed, you have nothing in your life to make you sad" "if you lost weight you would feel better" "I don't know why that makes you anxious, just don't let it bother you" Thank goodness for my best friend, who 100% gets it, and online support I have found in various places, my doctors and counselling. I think a little empathy or a hug would be so much more kind rather than advice that is thought to be helpful but comes across completely in the wrong way. I feel like when the rude comments are said, just shoot me while I am down. the thing is, many helpful suggestions people give have been PROVEN to help. rather than write off someone's suggestions as them "not getting it' I think we should all keep an open mind, especially when someone is coming at this from a place of caring. For example, losing weight HAS helped with my depression, as does going for a walk. it's not a cure, of course, but when used with other treatments, these ideas CAN help.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jan 2, 2018 16:20:54 GMT
not2peased, I agree that there are tools which can help. Where I think people start to bristle about them is when we feel like the people who are making them have a history of dismissive commentary. I have a friend who doesn't understand it at all. He will text me and I will say to him, I'm just in a mood today and don't feel like talking. I'll catch up with you later. And then he will say stuff like you really need to exercise, etc. First, I didn't ask for his suggestions and second, he didn't know what my mood actually was to address it in a constructive way. When I'm manic, exercise is terrible. It just revs me up worse. When someone comes here and posts about it, my first move is to empathize. Then offer a suggestion. Empathy is generally the missing ingredient.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jan 2, 2018 16:32:35 GMT
Yes, my own parents and dh. "Just go for a walk, you will feel better" "I don't know why you would be depressed, you have nothing in your life to make you sad" "if you lost weight you would feel better" "I don't know why that makes you anxious, just don't let it bother you" Thank goodness for my best friend, who 100% gets it, and online support I have found in various places, my doctors and counselling. I think a little empathy or a hug would be so much more kind rather than advice that is thought to be helpful but comes across completely in the wrong way. I feel like when the rude comments are said, just shoot me while I am down. the thing is, many helpful suggestions people give have been PROVEN to help. rather than write off someone's suggestions as them "not getting it' I think we should all keep an open mind, especially when someone is coming at this from a place of caring. For example, losing weight HAS helped with my depression, as does going for a walk. it's not a cure, of course, but when used with other treatments, these ideas CAN help. Certainly those things can help. But does the speaker think they're the only one smart enough to know this, or the depressed person isn't aware of such simple suggestions? They can come off as a little glib and dismissive in many cases. If that's what's being offered, I'd rather the person try to listen and remain silent.
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Post by mrsscrapdiva on Jan 2, 2018 16:32:56 GMT
It is all in how the message is delivered. Almost like Well, if you just did these things, it will all go away. I was raised to believe if you are of normal weight, active, have a clean house, go to church every Sunday and dress well than obviously you have your life together. There would be no reason to have depression or anxiety. I guess it is all in how it is perceived too. Yes, I am sure they mean well but they aren't the best at communicating. What is meant to be loving and kind comes across as judgmental, criticizing and rude. I have discussed this in length in therapy.
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Post by fruitysuet on Jan 2, 2018 18:22:44 GMT
If you've suffered depression, were there people in your life who really cared and loved you, but truly believed you could just " snap out of it?" I had nobody in my family who understood or had any sympathy. And this includes my own mother who spent years suffering depression herself. I'm sorry for you that you are having to endure the same.
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,253
Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on Jan 2, 2018 19:16:53 GMT
I think it is common for many conditions, especially those where the word used is often used in inaccurate ways.
For example, my sister and I both suffer from migraines. Do you know how many people have told us both, "Well, when I get a migraine, I just go on about my business. I don't need to lie down in a dark room/take meds/vomit/pull over from driving. Toughen up! Sheesh." I'll tell you how many -- MOST people say that. To the point where most times when I've had to call out of work due to a migraine, I tell people I had a stomach bug. People are sympathetic to that, but not migraines.
I fully believe it's because in many circles, migraine=headache and people don't realize that migraines are totally different animals. And most people don't want to hear or learn something new, especially if that means they no longer can feel superior to someone else. It's far better to feel superior, than to feel sympathy.
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Post by Zee on Jan 2, 2018 19:22:26 GMT
yes, I was told to get over myself on this board. I don't discuss depression IRL because of what you posted. I remember I told you I didn't like how you put yourself down, that you should say good things about yourself. You didn't like that and made it clear I should keep my thoughts about it to myself. If you are talking about me, I want you to know that in no way did I ever mean you should get over yourself. I just wanted to hear you speak positive things about yourself. But, message received, and I won't say any more about it. I just was hoping that it wasn't me who kept you from feeling like you could post about it here.
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Jan 2, 2018 20:00:59 GMT
From this thread I've taken away the concept that people with disorders I don't understand might lash out if I inadvertently say the wrong thing. If we say the wrong thing isn't it obvious we do so from ignorance rather than malice?
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jan 2, 2018 20:12:47 GMT
georgiapea, I would never lash out at someone for saying the "wrong" thing. If I have the energy, I usually try to help someone understand. I fully expect that I might say something out of ignorance to people with chronic conditions I have no experience with. I'd like them to extend me grace and I extend the same grace. I think that the OP is struggling with someone who is close to her who is not wanting to see the big picture. Because these people are close to us, it is harder to shrug off. And it is harder to accept because these are the people that are supposed to be part of our support system.
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J u l e e
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Jan 2, 2018 20:26:46 GMT
And you know what? My DH is a wonderful guy. But he has the most calm, steady personality. I experience every emotion like 10x more intensely than he does. And you know when I'm down, it sucks. But when I am up, I feel joy and excitement and humor to the point where I often have happy tears. I can laugh until I wet my pants! And you know what? He doesn't have that. This is me. I don't suffer from depression. My husband does to a small degree. It took us a while to get a rhythm with each other's emotions. He describes me as a straight horizontal line. My emotions can go a little above or below (occasionally really above or below), but by nature I am predictably steady. He would sometimes think I wasn't having any fun if I wasn't outrageously joyful like he imagined I should be, when in reality I was having a lot of fun. It just doesn't look the same as he experiences it. I experience joy, it just doesn't look like peeing my pants with laughter. This has been a great discussion. I think we do have to talk about it with the people we love otherwise how will we understand each other? Keep talking!
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rickmer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,125
Jul 1, 2014 20:20:18 GMT
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Post by rickmer on Jan 2, 2018 20:35:02 GMT
i stepped back from a friend who was giving me the cold shoulder about 8 years ago. i sent her a note recently on FB and she was so happy to hear from. she had a complete breakdown, was hospitalized and medicated and didn't think she was worth being in anyone's life. she was so apologetic about dropping off the face of the earth.
i told her i thought i was respecting her wishes by backing away... that i was so sorry i didn't realize i was feeding the beast that is depression that was telling her dark things about herself and her lack of self-worth.
some people get it, some people don't. i think it is frustrating for people who don't understand why you can't choose to pick yourself up and shake it off.
there are lots of great articles out there that explain depression. if you find one that speaks to how you feel, perhaps you could forward it to people in your life... to give it some kind of validity to them (just if you are trying to help them understand, of course you are under no obligation to justify anything to anyone)
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Jan 2, 2018 20:55:08 GMT
Oh, jeremysgirl, I came back because I realized I should have acknowledged that you were excluded from my fear of being 'lashed at'. I feel you are so compassionate toward us who haven't a clue.
Migraines I understand. I've had 2. I also worked with a young woman who was unfairly judged because she frequently was unable to work.
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J u l e e
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Jan 2, 2018 21:19:04 GMT
It was actually here that I learned people suffer from migraines differently as well. I have had migraines all my life. The kind where I get violently ill if I am not lying still in complete darkness and silence. I have to hold my skull together because if I don't I am positive it will blow apart from the pain which is so bad I need to cry, but crying hurts too much. Childbirth was a walk in the park comparatively.
I had a friend who suffered from migraines but would lay around and watch television when she had them. I judged her hard. But on a thread years ago about migraines, I learned people have them over the course of days and even go to work. Aside from the hangover which is usually the entire day after, the worst of mine are over in a few hours. So, even something like migraines are cannot be completely understood from person to person.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jan 2, 2018 21:35:08 GMT
rickmer, I recently posted this article both on this board and on Facebook. I think your friend might like it.
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Post by laureljean on Jan 2, 2018 23:44:13 GMT
Yes. One of the most vocal (a relative) eventually suffered a prolonged bout of depression herself. She has since apologized.
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Post by Merge on Jan 3, 2018 0:01:06 GMT
I wonder if the flippant attitude comes because the term depression is tossed around a lot. What do those of you who are diagnosed with clinical, not situational, depression think? Is the term loosely used on medical charts? I think it is. I am a firm believer that mental illness should only be diagnosed and treated by a psychiatrist. I am against general practice docs prescribing psychiatric meds. I have seen way too many situations where someone presents like they have depression and then is prescribed an antidepressant and ends up pushed off the deep end because they really need a mood stabilizer. I also think counseling is critical. I think that there are times when medication isn't enough and you need tools to cope. Plus, I think some depression is situational and issues should be dealt with in counseling. I was first diagnosed and treated by a trusted GP who I credit with saving my marriage and career. I was opposed to medication and would not have taken the next step to see a mental health professional at that point in my illness. He convinced me to try the meds for a few months, with monthly follow ups with him. I would have been very skeptical of taking meds from anyone who didn't know me and my history like my GP did. So from that perspective, I can't say that only psychiatrists should diagnose and treat. My life has changed so drastically for the better with the right meds and some counseling. My oldest daughter, on the other hand, started with an antidepressant from the GP and didn't get better. She was referred to a psychiatrist, who tried first a different medication and now has added a mood stabilizer. She has a tentative bipolar diagnosis and will continue under the psychiatrist's care. So personally, I think there's a place for both.
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RosieKat
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PeaJect #12
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Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Jan 3, 2018 1:16:10 GMT
From this thread I've taken away the concept that people with disorders I don't understand might lash out if I inadvertently say the wrong thing. If we say the wrong thing isn't it obvious we do so from ignorance rather than malice? In my experience, it's only a problem if someone repeatedly insists that (taking a walk) is the answer, and/or is resistant to any other discussion or education about the situation. It also seems to be in the delivery - saying "You ought to go take a walk" is very different in feel from "Want to come take a walk with me?" It's the difference between being lectured like a child versus being addressed with empathy as an adult. I do think those of us with these illnesses have a responsibility to ourselves to do whatever we can to help us stay healthy. Just as a diabetic might be prescribed medication but should still be smart in how s/he eats and exercises - mental illnesses often require medication, but ultimately, to get as healthy as possible, we need to make the best lifestyle choices we can. Sometimes we need those meds just to get us off the very bottom to where we can even begin to think about what those good choices might be, but rarely is 100% of the final answer medication. So while I don't believe that "pull yourself together" or "get over it" are helpful or kind, "Come take a walk with me" can be. I hope that makes sense. (Even if it doesn't, please understand I'm not belittling people with a mental illness. Pretty much everyone I'm related to, including myself, deals with some form of it or another.)
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jan 3, 2018 1:22:04 GMT
I am in 100% agreement with rosiekat that we need to take good care of ourselves. Medication alone isn't a solution. Therapy is necessary. Having go to strategies makes all the difference.
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Post by nyxish on Jan 3, 2018 1:22:55 GMT
Yes, my own parents and dh. "Just go for a walk, you will feel better" "I don't know why you would be depressed, you have nothing in your life to make you sad" "if you lost weight you would feel better" "I don't know why that makes you anxious, just don't let it bother you" Thank goodness for my best friend, who 100% gets it, and online support I have found in various places, my doctors and counselling. I think a little empathy or a hug would be so much more kind rather than advice that is thought to be helpful but comes across completely in the wrong way. I feel like when the rude comments are said, just shoot me while I am down. the thing is, many helpful suggestions people give have been PROVEN to help. rather than write off someone's suggestions as them "not getting it' I think we should all keep an open mind, especially when someone is coming at this from a place of caring. For example, losing weight HAS helped with my depression, as does going for a walk. it's not a cure, of course, but when used with other treatments, these ideas CAN help. Respectfully, while you are correct, if this is your take on it, than i don't think you understand at all. Instead of offering advice that honestly doesn't help, it's more helpful for many if those who want to help can put aside their own discomfort and just listen. From this thread I've taken away the concept that people with disorders I don't understand might lash out if I inadvertently say the wrong thing. If we say the wrong thing isn't it obvious we do so from ignorance rather than malice? i think a lot of people who suffer from depression *know* that, but hearing the same well meant but useless advice over and over wears a person down. So, just as the advice is well meant and should be understood as that, maybe the snarls could also be taken with some understanding. IMHO, as someone who is in a bad place now with no hope in sight, i've found that a lot of the well meant advice about "snapping out of it" or "why don't you just...." is less about me or that pain i am trying to handle, but more about the person giving the advice wanting me not to make them uncomfortable, not to remind them of icky things. While i totally admit my view is a bit more bitter than is probably truth, i do think it is very true that generally people don't know how to deal with pain/grief/long recovery struggles. At least Americans don't.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jan 3, 2018 1:39:52 GMT
nyxish, hugs. You make a good point in that it makes people uncomfortable. And how much you may share can make people even more uncomfortable. My mother is a very gentle, very understanding, very emotional person. I told her once I wrote my suicide note. I just wanted her to give me a hug, tell me that life is worth living, that I could overcome all the things in my life going wrong at that time. She completely came unglued. She yelled at me and my mother rarely yells. But she didn't know what to do with that information. It's just such a touchy subject. The people close to you love you and they don't want to lose you. But they can't understand what that feels like to be so low and having a brain that plays tricks on you. I think we need to talk about it but others really aren't equipped to hear it. This is where a good therapist comes in handy. Or a message board with a fair number of people who do *get* it. We can offer each other a different kind of support. We can share stories that don't make each other feel uncomfortable because we have been there too. It doesn't horrify me if you PM me and tell me the terrible thoughts you are dealing with.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jan 3, 2018 2:29:32 GMT
If you've suffered depression, were there people in your life who really cared and loved you, but truly believed you could just " snap out of it?" Before reading the thread-- YES. People who do NOT understand depression just don't get it. That doesn't mean they didn't care about ME, but they didn't understand the insidiousness of depression. still haven't read the entire thing. A couple random thoughts in regards to the posts on this page: I, personally, am glad my GP can prescribe my anti-depressant, because the mental health provider situation in AZ sucks. Thankfully I've taken my Rx for years, since before we moved here, though. I was Rx'ed initially by a psychiatrist in conjunction with seeing a counselor, but having the freedom to NOW get if from a regular doctor now is a godsend for a number of reasons. People who say things like 'well, if you just lose weight you'll be less depressed' truly DO NOT get it. People with depression KNOW all these things, intellectually. But it's a vicious cycle- your brain gets used to feeling 'bad' (to put it simply) all the time, so you don't have energy to do anything you don't have to. I manged to get myself to work, do the laundry, feed my cats, etc. but that was it. Before I was diagnosed, saw a counselor, and got on medication, I had no idea what was wrong with me... I thought I was going crazy. Even NOW, after taking medication for more than 10 years, and KNOWING all the things that help stabilize my mood (proper nutrition, good self-care, proper sleep, exercise, etc.) it is STILL possible to get sucked into a downward spiral where you still just CAN'T do those things for yourself, even though you know you 'should' or that they're good for you. The spiral is so gradual that sometimes you don't realize you're in it until it's too late. My boyfriend didn't understand anything about depression before he met me, and even after being together for 14 years, I'm not sure he really 'understands' what it feels like for me when I'm in it, because describing it in words isn't the same as experiencing it. IMHO, as someone who is in a bad place now with no hope in sight, i've found that a lot of the well meant advice about "snapping out of it" or "why don't you just...." is less about me or that pain i am trying to handle, but more about the person giving the advice wanting me not to make them uncomfortable, not to remind them of icky things.
While i totally admit my view is a bit more bitter than is probably truth, i do think it is very true that generally people don't know how to deal with pain/grief/long recovery struggles. At least Americans don't. TOTALLY agree with this. ETA: The day that line was crossed, I didn’t need to read about it. I KNEW it was time. Because why else would I lay on the couch, watch the dog pee on the rug, not stop her and not get up from the couch to clean it up? That was the day I knew I had to do something about it. ^^^ I had something similar happen, but after I started talking to a counselor, I realized I had been chronically depressed ('high functioning' if you want to call it that) for MANY years before I reached this point. It gradually got worse over time, though- until the afternoon I found myself curled up on the floor, sobbing-- but I had no idea WHY-- and I thought I was having a nervous breakdown. I still didn't get medical help right away- but thankfully I had a supportive family member I could talk to who had gone through something similar to encourage me to seek help. If I hadn't had her to talk to, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to get help. But to other people, I 'looked' and 'seemed' fine.
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Jan 3, 2018 3:17:51 GMT
Thank you to everyone who participated on this thread. I feel I've learned more about depression tonight than I did in the whole rest of my life. And my heart goes out to each of you who experiences it. I will try to be a better person in the future.
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Post by utpea on Jan 3, 2018 3:59:46 GMT
bethany102399 said “I honestly think unless you've lived through the darkness, it's really hard to understand when someone says they have depression.” I agree. Agree 100%! There are people in my life who understand and others that do not. I’m so sorry that you are experiencing any level of depression. It’s truly is one of the hardest things I have ever dealt with in my life.
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Post by hop2 on Jan 3, 2018 4:48:34 GMT
It’s hard to be the person on the other side of the equation being understanding and empathetic and supportive and then your loved one refuses treatment/therapy/counseling/drugs etc.
You can’t help them, they can’t/won’t help themselves & they actively refuse/avoid help from professionals. ‘I don’t need shrinking’ ‘quackery won’t help’ ‘ I don’t need help nothing’s wrong’ etc etc. and then when they have a captive sympathetic audience they bring their depression out for sympathy show & tell BUT still refuse actual treatment. ( and I’m talking irl not anyone in here really reaching out for understanding )
I feel like screaming I was sympathetic & you literally brushed me aside and said ‘I couldn’t understand’! When that happens then you just feel manipulated and used. No amount of logic talk with yourself that it’s thier illness talking makes any of that hurt go away.
I literally have to walk away some days before literally exploding.
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