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Post by auntkelly on Nov 12, 2018 18:10:08 GMT
I think everyone needs to sit down and really listen to what your father has to say. I don't think your mom would want you to keep your promise to her if it wasn't what your father wanted.
Even if your father is in assisted living, I think he will still be quite dependent on you in a lot of ways. No one knows your father as well as you do and you can be his advocate at the assisted living center so that he gets the care he needs. You can still take him to all his doctor's appointments. Also, you can spend time with him at the assisted living center and help him establish a social life there.
I have a friend whose mother and MIL are at the same assisted living center. She is there all the time and participates in a lot of the social activities. She knows all the residents and helps them out w/ things like setting up FaceTime calls to their grandkids.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Nov 12, 2018 18:12:01 GMT
I get where you are coming from. I am the "baby" and my brother is the oldest. My brother was very hands off with our parents, and I was very hands on. We both lived about an hour from our parents, but I was there every week, and he was there every couple of months. He made the decision that our parents should live in a care home, and even arranged a tour. My parents were still doing ok, and both expressed a strong desire to not go. As our parents declined, he continued to push the issue and it caused a huge rift. I think my brother felt that since he was the oldest, he was the one to make the decisions, regardless of who was closer. In the end, my parents remained in their home, with 24 hour care. What bothers me most, is that your brother didn't bother to discuss this with you. It is like he went behind your back and I can see where your resentment is. Also, sometimes people from that generation (like my parents) will defer to the male. Your dad may, or may not be on board with this but because his oldest son is suggesting this, it sounds like it would be a good idea. In my situation, in the end, my brother and I have mended fences. My uncle, who was siding with my brother, thanked me for fighting so hard to keep my parents at home. It truly was their wish. I wish you the best, and I hope your dad will be honest with what he wants. I just want to note that in my mom’s case, she didn’t want to go “to a home” either but that was because she was thinking it was like the nursing homes of the past where old people were warehoused to basically wait to die, and that is NOT what assisted living places today are like at all. In fact, many actual nursing homes aren’t like that anymore either. The place my mom lived in had multiple levels of care so people wouldn’t have to undergo a major move once they needed a higher level of care, they could stay where they were familiar. So it’s very possible that many people say they don’t want that when in fact they don’t really know what these residences are like now. Once my mom got acclimated to her new little apartment and all the fun things she now had access to doing, she really did love being there. The same was true with my MIL when she moved into the senior condo building she moved to when her single family home got to be too much for her to handle. MIL even told us that she wished she would have moved there ten years sooner because she had so many friends there and so much more to do right there where she lived. So even though a person might initially think it isn’t for them, they just might change their perspective once they get a true picture of what these communities are designed to offer. |
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amom23
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Post by amom23 on Nov 12, 2018 18:19:15 GMT
My grandma really enjoyed living in assisted living. She was able to have her privacy and independence while not having to cook and clean and there were always people to visit with and activities going on if she felt like participating. It wasn't a negative at all. There was still plenty for my mom and I to help grandma with too.
If you all sat down and talked you might realize your Dad has legit reasons for wanting to move and your brother might have YOUR best intentions at heart.
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Post by mom on Nov 12, 2018 18:22:23 GMT
Does your dad want to move into assisted living? I think if he does and he's fully mentally capable of making that decision then you should honour it.
I care for my mother in her own home, it's hard and thankless but I worry what I'll do when she no longer needs me so I do understand it from that perspective. On the other hand, is your dad maybe worried about becoming a burden and wants to retain some independence while he still can? I think the emotions and weaknesses that come with being elderly aren't something we'll understand till we get there ourselves and knowing what to do for elderly parents is so difficult.
I don't think this is a reflection on you or the care you have given him and your mum over the years, please be gentle with yourself over this.
said what I was trying to type out. I have been in your exact shoes. It is a hard job. But one I would do again in a heartbeat. But it does take a toll on you, your relationship with your husband, etc. It comes with sacrifices. Maybe your dad sees the toll it is taking and wants to spare you that? Also? My husbands company runs assisted living homes. They are nothing like nursing homes (which they also run). I know I was surprised to see what they are actually like nowadays. You go and come as you wish. Honestly, if my dad had not remarried so quickly, I would have been ok with him in an assisted living. He can have his independence and still be checked on. Something you said, though, does need addressing. You mentioned that you won't have a purpose. I am sorry - but you have to change your thinking with this. It is not your dad's responsibility to give you purpose. That comes from within. I get it - it is hard not seeing your dad every day. I went through the same withdrawals when my dad remarried and no longer needed me. But its not on him to give you purpose. Yes, your 'normal' will change but you find a new purpose. Maybe its volunteering. Maybe its going back to work. But that is for you to figure out and your dad shouldn't have to carry that burden. |
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scrapngranny
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Post by scrapngranny on Nov 12, 2018 18:28:36 GMT
I’m sorry this has turned into a hurtful situation. Families can be a mine field to navigate sometimes. You, your DH, brother, and dad all need to talk to talk this out together. There could be reasons your dad would feel more comfortable in an assisted living facility. At 91 your dad will need more care as time goes on.
Listen to everyone’s thinking and state how you feel and see if you can create a plan the will suit everyone. There really are pros and cons to each of these choices.
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AmeliaBloomer
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Nov 12, 2018 18:33:39 GMT
I think everyone needs to sit down and really listen to what your father has to say. I don't think your mom would want you to keep your promise to her if it wasn't what your father wanted. Even if your father is in assisted living, I think he will still be quite dependent on you in a lot of ways. No one knows your father as well as you do and you can be his advocate at the assisted living center so that he gets the care he needs. You can still take him to all his doctor's appointments. Also, you can spend time with him at the assisted living center and help him establish a social life there.
I have a friend whose mother and MIL are at the same assisted living center. She is there all the time and participates in a lot of the social activities. She knows all the residents and helps them out w/ things like setting up FaceTime calls to their grandkids.
Word. Palabra. Verbum. I did ALL of the above at my father’s eventual assisted living facility. You’re still on daughter duty; you’re just driving to a different location and the burden shifts somewhat. And then as his health declined, there were lots of things to do that the facility wanted nothing to do with...or are legally constrained from doing. I actually submitted my earlyish retirement notice based on how much my father would benefit from me being available during the days, and that anticipated need really didn’t change that much after his move. And then he up and died eight weeks before my last day of work, but that’s a whole ’nother story. The point is that a facility is a transition to a different type of care from you, but there are still lots of balls to keep track of. Some you keep juggling yourself; some you just make sure the other guy isn’t doing some fancy sleight of hand... |
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Post by jemali on Nov 12, 2018 18:39:51 GMT
We had a similar situation with my MIL. Three of the 4 children thought it was time for her to move to assisted living. The other wanted to give up her apartment, cut her hours and move in with mom. We could see that this would not work very well for short term, much less looking into the future.
MIL was hesitant, but the main things she needed were 1. people to be around her and not be home by herself. 2. She didn’t like to cook for just herself and therefore was not eating very healthy. 3. She was forgetting how to check her blood sugar and give herself insulin.
We moved her to assisted living and it was the best thing for her. There’s no way she could live by herself now.
One thing somebody told us was that by moving her to assisted living we got to be her children again and not her caretaker. It’s not that we don’t love her but it is a huge burden removed knowing that someone is watching over her and taking care of her.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 18:49:18 GMT
One thing somebody told us was that by moving her to assisted living we got to be her children again and not her caretaker. That's an extremely important thing. I've tried many times to explain to people that I no longer feel like my mother's daughter, I feel like her carer and nothing more. I can't put it into words really but I 'do' for her then there's no room for anything else. |
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Post by Zee on Nov 12, 2018 18:57:38 GMT
Maybe dad doesn't like feeling like a burden (not that he is, but maybe he'd like to remain independent as long as possible) and would like to retain some autonomy in the decision making process. He might like the social opportunities with people his age that assisted living can give him.
My uncle-in-law had so many social opportunities once he moved into assisted living. It was really nice to see his Facebook pics of all the outings and things before he died.
Your identity may be that of caregiver, but maybe you could instead focus on a new phase of your life. You could go back to work or find time to volunteer. Check in with Dad a few times a week but let him live his life without making him feel that he's done something awful and hurtful to you by wanting to live independently.
Letting him go to assisted living is not the same as "putting him in a home" and you are not breaking any promised to your mother by allowing his wishes to prevail.
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Mystie
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Post by Mystie on Nov 12, 2018 19:14:42 GMT
My parents are recently deceased. I am one of the youngest siblings, but shared my parents’ care for their last several years with my sister (so, several brothers either out of town or disinterested). And work we did, including going though/inventorying house contents. But when my oldest brother called and gave advice? Man, it was like the word.of.God. He didn’t misuse the power, and often gave advice at our prodding because we all understood the power of the Crown Prince, so we were all complicit, but I TOTALLY understand how birth order and gender can affect this whole dynamic. I would also suspect that your brother is being influenced by his wife. Nothing wrong with that, but it does rankle when the out-of-town, non-involved advice is based in the experiences of another family. The most important thing to do now is parse out when your dad truly wants, not what he may (or may not) have been convinced he wants. Good luck. Let us know. Oh, that Crown Prince thing made me laugh...it was JUST LIKE THAT in my mom's family. She and my aunt lived near my grandparents, did so much for them, but when they needed to convince Grandpa of anything, the phone call had to come from my oldest uncle, clear across the country. My uncle could do no wrong in Grandpa and Grandma's eyes. OP, I'll just echo that you need to talk to your dad with an open mind and really try to set aside your hurt feelings and find out the truth of what he wants and what your brother has suggested. Is it possible that your brother is aware of what a sacrifice you have made and is trying to help your dad find another way that works better? And maybe start thinking about other ways you can nurture your caretaking spirit in the coming years. |
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moodyblue
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Nov 12, 2018 19:19:04 GMT
First, my bias - I don't think anyone should make promises like "I'll never put you/other parent into a home." or "We'll keep you at home until the end." or "You'll live with us and never go to a home."
Sometimes it's NOT the best thing for the elderly person to stay at home, or move in with children; sometimes the level of care or support needed is just not doable. And sometimes it's not what the parent WANTS.
If you want to be seen and treated as a mature adult, you have to act like one - meet with everyone at once so it's all discussed openly and every person hears the same things. Refusing to talk with the others doesn't present you as the adult you want to be treated as.
Find out what your dad actually wants - NOT what your MOM wanted for him, or what YOU want for him. If he's mentally competent then he's the one who gets to make the decision. And it may not be what you would choose, but it's not you who gets to choose now.
I understand that you've focused on caring for your dad so much that it has become your purpose. You'll still have lots to do even if he's not living with you. But one way or another, this phase of YOUR life will come to an end at some point. No one knows exactly what will happen next, including with your own health or your husband's either. You need to look at your future and plan for it.
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Post by craftedbys on Nov 12, 2018 19:27:16 GMT
Thank you for all the kind thoughts and for information to look at if from other perspectives. I will answer a few questions.
First off, I completely admit I am being selfish with Dad not going into AL. I wish I had had more time with mom before she started declining. I cherish the time we spend together on a daily basis and I think the dynamic would be changed with him in a facility.
BTW, I am POA both medically and financially because I am the one that lives here. Both brothers are the executors of the estate because, well, I am a female and the baby, so I couldn't possibly be expected to handle it. Yes, I am bitter about that and the attitude they have.
For those that ask what he wants. We have asked him. Even last Wednesday he admitted to my DH that he didn't think he would be happy in AL. And for the last year DH and I have always said that we will do whatever he wants. We didn't spring him moving in with us on him. We have kept him on the loop, talking about it, asking him how he feels about it, etc.
He will say one thing to us here, then turn around and agree with my brother. I have told him to tell us how he feels and not just what he thinks we want to hear.
As far as the stress of running two households, it actually got easier once the kids went back to school in August. The hardest part is when DH tries to cook on Sundays the cupboard here is bare because I cook over there so don't really shop for our house except for coffee and food for the animals (unless I know the kids are expected to be here).
My BFF has likened it to my being unexpectedly fired from a job. One that I have had for two years now and we enjoying and thought I was pretty good at. Having been fired like that in the business world and remembering how that felt, I would say it is an entirely accurate analogy.
Dad called this morning and asked if we could all sit down and talk this out. I told him I already said what I have to say. (FYI, in my 50+ years I have never been that disrespectful before). However, I finally agreed to go over there later, once DH is off work.
I know my SIL will say that this is between me, my brother, and my Dad, and the in laws need to stay out of it. Well, no. My DH has every right to have a say so and an opinion because he is right by my side helping me. He says my Dad has been more of a father to him than his own (FIL died the year we were married, so my Dad has been in DH's life longer than his own was).
Funny, right after mom died and the topic of AL came up, both my brother and SIL agreed that Dad wouldn't be happy in one and would be gone within a few months. Now it feels like Dad has given up and just wants go go there and wait to die.
Again, thank you for all of the insights and kindness. Will try to update later.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 19:48:51 GMT
So now, not only will I not be able to keep my promise to my mom, I won't have a purpose. I am a caretaker by nature, so without him to take care of, what am I supposed to do? I guess I am supposed to go back to work and then stop and see him and watch him watch the walls. Some life. <<<<<<<<<edit>>>>> Of course, somehow it is now turned around and I am the selfish one and am acting horribly because I am upset that they are making all of these plans and decisions without including me or what my opinion is. Once again, I am being left out of the "grownup decisions" because I am the youngest and they don't think I can handle it.
Have YOU talked to them as an adult group about your plans to move across town, give up your job, buy a newer house to accomodate dad living with you. I see you have talked to dad but you are ignoring his reluctance in favor of your personal need to be the care giver. You may not be left out because you are the youngest but you are left out because you are the most obstant about getting what you want (purpose in life) instead of helping your dad get what HE wants (independence) He just might surprise you about his social life once he isn't having to depend on asking anyone to take him. He can just walk down the hall and enjoy a social life in an assisted living facility. My grandma LOVES the facility she is living in. My aunt wants her moved out and into my aunts home. Grandma doesn't want to go. She doesn't want her daughter to deal with her bathing. Nor does she like that the only people who visits my aunts house is my aunt. No one else in the family feels welcomed to drop by to visit, or can't drop by if my aunt doesn't feel up to visitors. In the facility anyone is free to visit from 8 to 8 and even later if the resident wants them to be allowed to visit. |
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scrappyesq
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Post by scrappyesq on Nov 12, 2018 20:00:43 GMT
Hugs to you. Could it be that your brother is exploiting the guilt your dad has about you doing so much? Maybe your dad mentioned that he feels bad that you do everything for him and your brother took that and ran with it.
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J u l e e
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Post by J u l e e on Nov 12, 2018 20:40:59 GMT
I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said, but I wanted to tell you I think you're a wonderful daughter and have done an admirable job taking care of your parents and helping with their home. Whatever happens, be proud of yourself and how you've honored your parents.
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Post by Zee on Nov 12, 2018 20:44:52 GMT
Dad is absolutely right, you all need to sit down and talk it out. Maturely and respectfully.
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julieb
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Post by julieb on Nov 12, 2018 20:46:48 GMT
I think you and DH should sit with your father, brother and SIL and discuss. This will not be pleasant----but it will demonstrate to your brother that you ARE an ADULT and no longer that little kid sister. Talk it out. Talk about your father's needs/wishes, not your need to be the caregiver. See if your father will be honest about things. Question: what about the big house after your father and children are gone? Can you easily make the payments? I am sorry everything has turned into drama. Hug to you. This. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 21:12:51 GMT
You've done so much for your father and it's admirable. Perhaps he knows this and senses how stressful this has been for you and your mention of selling your home for him to move in with you has got him thinking that he is just too much of a burden. Sit down with them and rather than go in with guns blazing, take a moment to realize that this may all because of others feeling like you've already sacrificed enough and don't want you to have to sell your home to boot. If you really want your father to remain with you, let them know that and that you will be the first to speak up when you feel that the time has come for him to receive more care in an assisted living facility.
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Post by mom on Nov 12, 2018 21:22:10 GMT
Dad is absolutely right, you all need to sit down and talk it out. Maturely and respectfully. Completely agree with this. If you don't want to be seen as the kid sister, then don't act like the kid sister. Show them you are mature enough to see what Dad's best interest is vs you wanting you way no matter what. |
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Post by Skellinton on Nov 12, 2018 21:29:45 GMT
Most everything Ism thinking has been said, but I would like to ad it is extremely likely at some point your dad will need care you cannot provide andthe best option will be an assisted living facility. In my experience, it is easier for someone to transition before it becomes a necessity. Your father is 90, he may seem like a 70 year old, but he is 90. Hopefully he has a lot of time left, but you need to be realistic, wouldn’t it be easier to let him move now when he is interested in the move? When he can make the decision by himself?
My grandma lived in a facility that offered several levels of care. When she first moved in she has what was essentially apartment complete with small kitchen. As she got sick she was moved up a level to a room without a kitchen and more nursing care, it was an easier transition for her because she has friends, she was familiar with some of the staff and she was comfortable with the situation.
Tour some facilities, you might be surprised how your dad feels and acts. You also might find a new purpose for yourself! Maybe you could volunteer there. You could still visit your dad everyday, but I bet he would be happier knowing you were his daughter,not his caretaker.
Good luck!
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peabrain
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Post by peabrain on Nov 12, 2018 21:34:37 GMT
I hope for a peaceful resolution for you in however this turns out.
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momto4kiddos
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Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
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Post by momto4kiddos on Nov 12, 2018 21:52:23 GMT
I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I'm glad you'll have your dh to support you tonight when you meet with them. ((HUGS))
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Post by Really Red on Nov 12, 2018 23:34:11 GMT
I'm sorry. My BIL did something like this to my ex - couching things in "It's out of concern for you," or "I'm worried about..." when all it is, is they are worried about something for THEM.
It sucks. These people are very good manipulators.
I think you know what you want. You lay it out for your dad in clear terms and see what he says. I'm really sorry it's come to this.
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Post by christine58 on Nov 14, 2018 0:57:34 GMT
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Post by flanz on Nov 14, 2018 1:37:51 GMT
Most everything Ism thinking has been said, but I would like to ad it is extremely likely at some point your dad will need care you cannot provide andthe best option will be an assisted living facility. In my experience, it is easier for someone to transition before it becomes a necessity. Your father is 90, he may seem like a 70 year old, but he is 90. Hopefully he has a lot of time left, but you need to be realistic, wouldn’t it be easier to let him move now when he is interested in the move? When he can make the decision by himself? My grandma lived in a facility that offered several levels of care. When she first moved in she has what was essentially apartment complete with small kitchen. As she got sick she was moved up a level to a room without a kitchen and more nursing care, it was an easier transition for her because she has friends, she was familiar with some of the staff and she was comfortable with the situation. Tour some facilities, you might be surprised how your dad feels and acts. You also might find a new purpose for yourself! Maybe you could volunteer there. You could still visit your dad everyday, but I bet he would be happier knowing you were his daughter,not his caretaker. Good luck! This!!! |
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Rhondito
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Post by Rhondito on Nov 14, 2018 2:04:57 GMT
What happens to your dad's house when he moves out? Who gets it, or the proceeds from it? Will it be more beneficial to your brother if your dad goes in AL? Not so much if he moves in with you?
In most cases, it's all about the money...
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Post by jeremysgirl on Nov 14, 2018 2:14:25 GMT
My grandpa lived in the city of Chicago, not suburbs. He went blind and he lived in his house for almost two years after he lost his sight. He was miserable. He was relatively young so he only had one friend in his neighborhood that was retired. Tony would come by 3 or 4 times a week to take him walking to his favorite lunch place. My aunt stopped by with his groceries and such. He felt trapped.
He decided to sell his house and go to an assisted living community. It was the best decision he ever made. The community was gated so he was safe to walk. Everyone was retired so he could walk with people all the time. They had a pool and he loved being able to swim. He had bunches of people to play cards with. He went on shopping trips and to church on Sundays. He started singing with the choir. His center would take a group over to practice on Wednesday nights. He even had a girlfriend there. Point is, they we're able to give him a good life with as much independence he could handle and help for those things he couldn't. And he had friends to fill his days and activities. Hands down, I am going to a retirement community when I am old. I will not sit in my house and have my children care for me.
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Post by gigi333 on Nov 14, 2018 5:34:27 GMT
Omg that’s awful
I would go insane if someone did that to me
I’m so sorry this is happening
My advice is go over and fight like hell for what you want, no way your dad will be happy in a home
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 8:31:52 GMT
Omg that’s awful I would go insane if someone did that to me I’m so sorry this is happening My advice is go over and fight like hell for what you want, no way your dad will be happy in a home It really isn't about what she wants, it's solely about what her dad wants. It's his life and decision to make. Many people are genuinely happy in assisted living. |
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teddyw
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Post by teddyw on Nov 14, 2018 11:12:25 GMT
Does your brother know how much AL costs?
We have my dad at his own home with a caregiver who comes in the AM. My oldest sister is his POA and is in charge of his finances. She goes over later in the day M-F
One of my other siblings go on the weekends. I go when I can but I’m the only one not in town.
My dad has the money to increase the caregiver any time. This is his choice. I think he would benefit with the social aspect of AL but I don’t have much say as the out of towner.
That being said. I’m the first person my sister calls or texts to vent about this. And it’s pretty much ever day.
Maybe your brother thinks he’s helping? Or not. Maybe he’s concerned about the money.
I do have a brother whose the youngest. My dad was adamant he would not be in charge of his finances. I cannot tell you how pissed this makes him. Maybe your brother is jealous of all the time you get with your dad?
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