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Post by mom on Jan 11, 2019 15:57:57 GMT
The Rolling Stones.... who f...ing cares... Sell the tickets and go see them another time. Does DS even like/know this band? He only graduates once. He will remember the party and seeing all his friends and family... a concert... no way! Yeah, DS2 knows who they are. He is a big fan. He is my old soul who loves 70-80's (and some 60's) music.
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Post by alexa11 on Jan 11, 2019 16:00:00 GMT
I just want to say that I understand how frustrated you are! Kids have no idea of what it's like to plan, invite, coordinate, set up an event, etc. I'm a see things in black and white kind of person, so I see 3 options: Cancel, have party without him, or try to change it if it's not going to be a big hassle. The last option would only be IF it's not going to stress you out too much. No, I wouldn't buy a plane ticket or go out of my way to make it all work out. I'm sorry that you're dealing with a crap ex!
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Post by mom on Jan 11, 2019 16:01:09 GMT
How many times have we talked about honoring the first obligation. You don't get to change your mind if another gig comes along. You son is learning to dump the given activity for what he thinks is a better deal... If I were you I would cancel your party, let your DS call the relatives and tell them he will not be there. His choice! On another note: Why is it necessary to have two parties for one kid?Because my xDH was abusive to me and my oldest (convicted) and it is hard to those who are in my family to be around him, even now. xDH has made raising our kids extremely hard with his behavior and antics. He causes scenes, and cannot be trusted to act civil.
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Post by mom on Jan 11, 2019 16:04:46 GMT
This. DS knows you and trusts you to still love him and like him and talk to him if he pisses you off, but he may have no such feelings of security with his Dad. Which is a horrible place to be. Doesn’t make him a coward. Please read and reread this. Yes, your son should make the right decision. But it sounds like his father has decided to pull a last minute power play while you are still "parenting" together. (It's not uncommon for self-absorbed exes, especially around graduation time.) Your ds is trapped in the fray of your ex's little stunt. It's really hard to navigate this when you are 18. Heck, the last time I cried over something my distant father did that made me feel ignored/unimportant I was in my 30's. I wouldn't ask your son to tell your ex anything. (That was the worst for me as a kid, and my parents were fairly amicable) Contact the ex directly, preferably email so you have a record of what is said. I'm sorry you have been forced into this situation.
*I also really like what TheOtherMeg posted, even though it is somewhat contradictory to what I said! Really good food for thought. The way this came about was son told me last night about their plans, and we discussed what he knew (when they were leaving, when the concert started, etc). Then I called xHD. I honestly thought this would be cleared up with a call (after all, I have emails where he agreed to the party plans). I promise - I try to keep any arguing back and forth, disagreements, etc, away from son.
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Post by mellowyellow on Jan 11, 2019 16:07:57 GMT
I just want to say that I understand how frustrated you are! Kids have no idea of what it's like to plan, invite, coordinate, set up an event, etc. I'm a see things in black and white kind of person, so I see 3 options: Cancel, have party without him, or try to change it if it's not going to be a big hassle. The last option would only be IF it's not going to stress you out too much. No, I wouldn't buy a plane ticket or go out of my way to make it all work out. I'm sorry that you're dealing with a crap ex! I am sorry you are having to deal with this...how frustrating! But with that being said.....I would not do either of the 3 options mentioned above. Since a year ago, you all decided on a plan....I would be sticking to that plan. Your DS can leave the graduation party after spending a few hours with your side of the family. He needs to learn to honor his commitment. There is absolutely no reason that they need to leave that early for the concert. I would also try to keep my cool and just very matter of factly state....this is how it's going to be. Good luck and big hugs!
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Post by mom on Jan 11, 2019 16:09:54 GMT
i am sorry, that is so frustrating!! i have to say, reading what you wrote is like a prediction of my future (well not the graduation part cuz that is really not a big deal here). but i could totally see STBX doing the *exact* same thing. this is the reason i only communicate with him in writing so there is a record of EVERYTHING agreed upon. otherwise he will say "that's not what you said" or "you didn't' tell me that".is there anyway you can ask his dad to leave after the party yourself, leaving DS out of the middle of it?? Ohh I do have it all via email. He doesn't care. I have tried reaching out to xDH. I called last night and he would not even discuss it. Im letting this cool a bit (for me) before dealing with this again.
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Post by dewryce on Jan 11, 2019 16:10:33 GMT
This. DS knows you and trusts you to still love him and like him and talk to him if he pisses you off, but he may have no such feelings of security with his Dad. Which is a horrible place to be. Doesn’t make him a coward. You are right. I was angry. He isn't a coward. (this is why I walked away from arguing with him, to come vent here. I didn't want to say something I didn't mean before I calmed down.) With what you said about his relationship with DS1, it seems your exDH is emotionally manipulating DS2 and probably making him feel very guilty. I’m not saying he is making great decisions, but I do feel bad for your son, he’s stuck between a rock and a hard place. After watching the relationship with his older brother and with pressure from his Dad now he’s got to be scared of how disagreeing with him will impact their relationship...will his Dad stop talking to him? He may not be a great Dad, but he’s still his Dad so that must be a scary proposition for him. Good teaching moment with how to deal with this for sure. IMHO he’s old enough to have a frank conversation about it. I’m not suggesting you insult the man, but you can provide support and guidance while being honest about his Dad’s actions and how they impact everyone.
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Post by mom on Jan 11, 2019 16:12:32 GMT
but it is okay to make you mad? I am seeing red. My ds also graduates in May and it is a big deal for us. Ds would literally feel my wrath every minute if every day. This right here. Why is it okay to make Mom mad and not Dad? I validate you, mom , because I'm always the one on your end of something like this. I'm too nice and too accommodating and I always end up being the one to change my plans because xDH is a narcissistic douche-canoe who thinks the world revolves around him and DS(17) refuses to stand up to him for fear of losing his relationship with him. But me? He tells me no all the time - because he knows he's not putting our relationship at risk by doing so. I'm the one who ends up making it about the kid and taking the high road while xDH makes it all about him and his convenience. It pisses me off and DH even more so. I'd be fuming mad. Jen Yep. This is my life.
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Post by mom on Jan 11, 2019 16:13:40 GMT
I'm not understanding why moving the party is too late. Graduation isn't for another 5-6 months. Because people are coming from other states that have made their plans, based on when we were having this party.
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Post by mom on Jan 11, 2019 16:16:53 GMT
You are right. I was angry. He isn't a coward. (this is why I walked away from arguing with him, to come vent here. I didn't want to say something I didn't mean before I calmed down.) With what you said about his relationship with DS1, it seems your exDH is emotionally manipulating DS2 and probably making him feel very guilty. I’m not saying he is making great decisions, but I do feel bad for your son, he’s stuck between a rock and a hard place. After watching the relationship with his older brother and with pressure from his Dad now he’s got to be scared of how disagreeing with him will impact their relationship...will his Dad stop talking to him? He may not be a great Dad, but he’s still his Dad so that must be a scary proposition for him. Good teaching moment with how to deal with this for sure. IMHO he’s old enough to have a frank conversation about it. I’m not suggesting you insult the man, but you can provide support and guidance while being honest about his Dad’s actions and how they impact everyone. You are right. Last night I was just so blind sighted by this & I couldn't think rationally. We are planning to sit with DS2 tonight and just talk it out. No drama, no fighting.
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Post by dewryce on Jan 11, 2019 16:19:23 GMT
I hope it all works out! After reading a follow-up post I’m re-thinking my advice about not insulting him ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/Q_m8lDOvc_3Le3r1GKdf.jpg) I’m so very sorry your family had to go through that.
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Post by prapea on Jan 11, 2019 16:23:00 GMT
How many times have we talked about honoring the first obligation. You don't get to change your mind if another gig comes along. You son is learning to dump the given activity for what he thinks is a better deal... If I were you I would cancel your party, let your DS call the relatives and tell them he will not be there. His choice! On another note: Why is it necessary to have two parties for one kid?Because my xDH was abusive to me and my oldest (convicted) and it is hard to those who are in my family to be around him, even now. xDH has made raising our kids extremely hard with his behavior and antics. He causes scenes, and cannot be trusted to act civil. I am guessing your DS2 knows about the abuse you guys endured from your ex. I will also say, if I were in your DS2’s shoes right now, I would do the same to not ruffle feathers. Think of the situation like he is a kid and not an 18 year old Male. You will probably see it differently then. I can also see my kid doing the same because I can see it now. Also, you never know if your ex manipulated or is manipulating your ds. May be DS2 thinks he can never see his sister if he makes his dad angry.
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Post by mom on Jan 11, 2019 16:24:23 GMT
I hope it all works out! After reading a follow-up post I’m re-thinking my advice about not insulting him ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/Q_m8lDOvc_3Le3r1GKdf.jpg) I’m so very sorry your family had to go through that. ha. Yes. He has made life hard in the past but DH and I have always tried to take the high road. No badmouthing him to the boys, use email so we don't fight/argue where the kids can hear. We can be at school events at the same time - we just avoid each other for the most part. I actually get along great, though, with his family (mom, dad, sisters). They know & recognize him for what he has done and who he is. Heck, when my dad had cancer surgery last month, my xFIL came and sat with me at the hospital. Their son, though, is a handful on his best days.
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Post by Crack-a-lackin on Jan 11, 2019 16:27:43 GMT
I’m sorry. I hope you are able to work it out.
Slightly different situation, but My dd was not interested in having a party at all and I kept trying to explain to her the party was as much for me and everyone else who wanted to celebrate this milestone, and an occasion for the family to get together. She just wasn’t having it, wouldn’t help make plans, wasn’t excited, and I ended up canceling. I was hurt I couldn’t get her to understand she should be thinking of others as well.
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Post by mom26 on Jan 11, 2019 16:31:07 GMT
If the decision ends up being to cancel the party I'd have DS make all the calls to the relatives to deliver the news and explain why. If that is ultimately his decision, he needs to be responsible for it.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by scrapcat on Jan 11, 2019 16:34:06 GMT
I validate what you said, this is totally shitty, and I understand dealing with a personality like your x. He manipulated the situation purposely so you would have to be the bad guy by forcing DS2 to stay for party and miss concert, or if you cancel party, then he complains he didn't get one or get gifts, etc.
If you are trying to find an alternative, could you start the party earlier? Maybe even a brunch style which could be fun? At least then guests would get to interact with him for a couple hours.
But then again...when you said the thing about x making a scene, is this his way, like he rolls up at 1pm and demands DS2 get in the car right away (I am picturing him in like a sports car, blaring rolling stones) To 1) impress any friends there, "oh your dad is so cool, he's taking you to a concert" 2) embarrass you "oh he would rather spend time with his dad" 3) enrage said family members who already hate his guts.
I mean it sounds like a total narcissist, ego move. I hope you can work it out.
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Post by ScrapbookMyLife on Jan 11, 2019 17:13:42 GMT
Instead of expecting your Son to tell his Father, why don't you tell him. A simple email. Dear "Father's Name", I have planned a Graduation party for the day after graduation. It is at 1:00pm on Saturday "date here". It been planned for quite some time. "Son name" won't be able available for departure until 6:00pm on Saturday "date here". I know "Son name" is looking forward to both the party and the concert, to celebrate his Graduation. Best regards, "Mom name"
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 11, 2019 17:31:35 GMT
it is hard to those who are in my family to be around him, even now. xDH has made raising our kids extremely hard with his behavior and antics. He causes scenes, and cannot be trusted to act civil. Huge difference .... This make my comments a bit off. Do the best you can. IF the party is cancelled, your DS should make the calls, but why not start early, if necessary very early......... Two parties is justified.
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Post by twinks on Jan 11, 2019 18:01:12 GMT
Trust me, you DS knows what kind of person his father is. xDH sounds like my xDH and my DD is in the same position as your DS. They want to have a relationship. However, it really isn't any kind of relationship - it is one sided, with them bending over backwards to do whatever their dad says. It took my DD years to stop bending over backwards to accommodate her dad and let him ruin her celebrations.
Also, anyone and everyone you would invite to your DS's graduation party knows what a total jerk your xDH is and they would be most understanding of you and any changes or cancellation you have to do.
xDH just wants to ruin anything and everything you have planned. He knows darn well that he can leave later - he doesn't want to. In his twisted way, he wants to prove to your family and friends what a great father he is and that he has such a great relationship with your DS that DS would leave a party just to be with him. The funny thing about this situation is that all your family and friends can see right through him and know what a jerky thing he is doing to your DS.
BTDT so many times.
Focus on your DS. Yes, it is somewhat about you because you are proud of your son and his accomplishment. Just do it in a way that doesn't involve xDH. I know that it is hard. I understand the emotions behind this whole situation.
I would plan something else - either a brunch, a party the day before, or maybe the next weekend. I also always anticipated that xDH would ruin something and have several plans in place. It because the family joke! My brother would always ask if any gathering was plan A or plan Z
Hugs to you and congratulations to DS
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Post by mom on Jan 11, 2019 18:13:53 GMT
Trust me, you DS knows what kind of person his father is. xDH sounds like my xDH and my DD is in the same position as your DS. They want to have a relationship. However, it really isn't any kind of relationship - it is one sided, with them bending over backwards to do whatever their dad says. It took my DD years to stop bending over backwards to accommodate her dad and let him ruin her celebrations. Also, anyone and everyone you would invite to your DS's graduation party knows what a total jerk your xDH is and they would be most understanding of you and any changes or cancellation you have to do. xDH just wants to ruin anything and everything you have planned. He knows darn well that he can leave later - he doesn't want to. In his twisted way, he wants to prove to your family and friends what a great father he is and that he has such a great relationship with your DS that DS would leave a party just to be with him. The funny thing about this situation is that all your family and friends can see right through him and know what a jerky thing he is doing to your DS. BTDT so many times. Focus on your DS. Yes, it is somewhat about you because you are proud of your son and his accomplishment. Just do it in a way that doesn't involve xDH. I know that it is hard. I understand the emotions behind this whole situation. I would plan something else - either a brunch, a party the day before, or maybe the next weekend. I also always anticipated that xDH would ruin something and have several plans in place. It because the family joke! My brother would always ask if any gathering was plan A or plan Z Hugs to you and congratulations to DS Thank you for understanding what its like. And whats crazy is normally I would expect for xDH to start something & throw a fit. I just assumed (bad on my part) that since we were supposedly both on the same page, he wouldn't. I should have known better. I think thats whats making me even madder (at myself). I should have seen this coming. I've played his games for almost 20 years (divorced 16). I knew this could happen.
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Post by 950nancy on Jan 11, 2019 18:21:33 GMT
Haven't read all of the replies. I'd tell the ex that our party would be on Friday and he and son could do whatever they wanted on Saturday.
If you need to keep it on Saturday, they could drive on Sunday and still get there in plenty of time.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Jan 11, 2019 18:23:59 GMT
What is the relationship between your son and his dad? I read something today and it really hit home - sometimes kids of divorced parents knowingly upset the parent they trust to always be there. I did it as a kid, and my mom always took it. The one time I really stood up to my father - well, it's been almost 13 years since we've talked. Thanks for posting this. I was going to say to OP that this would be something my ex would do and even at 22 my DS wouldn't tell his dad no but your reason above might explain why. I let a lot of things go in the past, I still do.
I would be furious over the graduation party situation. I would say DS2 has two choices leaves after the party or party is cancelled.
My daughter is 25 and still navigates the mean shark in the water.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Jan 11, 2019 18:38:13 GMT
It may be disappointing for you to have to actually cancel the party BUT the bigger picture will be that you are teaching your son a very important lesson that the world doesn’t revolve around him and he really needs this lesson before going out into the world. Yes, his graduation revolves around him so he needs to choose. Not between dad and mom and not even between events because both events CAN be done. He is simply choosing whether or not he wants a party when you are able to offer it. I think the bigger issue is that he did choose to have the party and that's why the OP set it up on Saturday. To teach him a lesson would be to make him honor his commitment with the party. The frustrating thing about this is that he could actually do both, have the party and go to the concert being that they are on two different days, but the exDH is the one making the logistics difficult. I'm not sure I'd give up this fight yet, especially being that family is aware of the party and there's no good reason he can't do both. Trying to come up with a solution is a good teaching lesson for your DS. Yes, he's 18, but I still think he can learn from this and see that his Dad isn't the one that has the last say. I guess I am coming from the viewpoint that he because he is 18, Can she really *make* him do anything? I mean, she could pull the “living under my roof” card and would be perfectly justified but she should also be prepared that he then may choose to no longer live under her roof or have someone who makes everyone else at the party miserable and uncomfortable because he’s being forced to be there. Once someone is an adult the only person’s actions you really have control over are your own. In my house the solution would be to present him with his choices and not to knock myself out to modify what he is willing to do but to instead modify what I am willing to do (as in if I’m willing to throw the party or not- NOT meaning to modify my plans for the party) since I can control that, and the consequences would be his to deal with.
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Deleted
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Jun 18, 2024 11:01:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 18:58:18 GMT
I guess I am coming from the viewpoint that he because he is 18, Can she really *make* him do anything? I mean, she could pull the “living under my roof” card and would be perfectly justified but she should also be prepared that he then may choose to no longer live under her roof or have someone who makes everyone else at the party miserable and uncomfortable because he’s being forced to be there. Once someone is an adult the only person’s actions you really have control over are your own. In my house the solution would be to present him with his choices and not to knock myself out to modify what he is willing to do but to instead modify what I am willing to do (as in if I’m willing to throw the party or not- NOT meaning to modify my plans for the party) since I can control that, and the consequences would be his to deal with. While you can't force an 18yo to do something, you should hold him accountable to what he agreed to, especially when cancelling is only to appease exDH who is being unfair about the situation. My SIL has kids from a previous marriage and catered to her exDH. Unfortunately, as adults the kids are still afraid to do anything that would upset their father.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 11, 2019 19:00:44 GMT
This brings up another point which is that it could negatively change how some of the people on the mom’s side will view this kid, and that could last for years. I have one nephew that we were particularly close to. We spent a lot of time with him and his dad when he was younger. We were a little hurt that we didn’t even know there was a grad party being held for him because we didn’t get an invite. Apparently his mom threw one for him and no one from of our side was invited, which was odd because she was still friendly with a lot of us. My brother didn’t have the financial resources at the time to compete with his ex’s rich mom who paid for the party, and he couldn’t afford to host a second one for our side. It somewhat colors how I feel about this kid now, knowing that he probably never even gave any of us a single thought that we might have liked to come to celebrate this milestone with him. If he has some big major life event later I don’t know that I will do as much for him as I otherwise would have if we wouldn’t have been previously snubbed. (FWIW, my dad passed away when I was ten, but all of those aunts and uncles on his side got invited to my grad party. I wouldn’t have ever considered not inviting them even though we saw my mom’s siblings a whole lot more.) Just one more wrinkle to consider, some people get really hurt by stuff like this and they tend to remember that hurt for a long, long time. Exactly right. When your boy totally leaves boyhood behind and is living the busy life of an adult, loaded down with responsibilities, it will be that much harder for him to prioritize time and contact with his extended family if those bonds are allowed to be stretched too far now. You can turn the story around and ask him how he will feel when someone he loves asks him to come to something important and he makes travel plans and gets time off of work so he can be there. And then, that person decides to not even show up because he wants to go to a concert the next night. He has to put himself in someone else's shoes to "get" it. If you don't honor your family connections, especially after you have gone ahead and invited them long in advance to share a big milestone for you, your family will not make the mistake again of being there for you when it matters. I'd leave all talk of his dad out of it. These are you son's decisions. Dad has dangled a carrot and distracted him, that's all. It's not a nice thing for Dad to have done, but there will be shiny distractions throughout son's life. If you both can take Dad out of it and see it as events only, that will help to make the picture clearer. Once he has a firm idea in his head of where he stands and why, he'll be more able to stand firm with his father. If Dad is so petty that he'll ruin their relationship over this, than he's petty enough to ruin it tomorrow over something else. It's really important that your boy learns to make adult decisions for himself without always having to change to appease his fickle father.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
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La Pea Boheme
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jan 11, 2019 19:43:46 GMT
I have four sons. None of them wanted/want a graduation party. It appears your son doesn't care (enough) about his second party (the one you're hosting) to tell his dad that he's not leaving until late afternoon on Saturday. In your shoes, I'd simply cancel the Saturday party. Just cancel it. Your son doesn't care enough about it to stand up to his dad and hang around for 3-4 hours that day and greet his family and friends. Frankly, if he did make an abbreviated appearance and then dash off for another gig, some might feel it looked a bit like a gift-grab anyway. Your son has made his choice. Yes, his dad put him in an awful position -- no doubt assuming his DS would do what he (dad) wanted and you'd cave and change your plans to make everything work. However, at 18 years old (or thereabouts), it's time for your son to live with the consequences his choices. Mommy isn't going to soften the blow all the time. If you want to go to a concert during the time a party is scheduled, then you'll actually have to miss the party. The party isn't going to change to suit you. Life's like that. Get used to it, buddy. I wouldn't beat him over the head with it, I'd just present it like, "Well, you can't do both events, so it's okay, I'll cancel the party." Act all innocent and surprised if/when DS looks shocked that you're not going to jump through hoops to make this work. I mean, he doesn't care enough to stay for a couple hours, so why should you bother getting a zillion people/businesses to change their plans for him, right? Just shrug and say, "Oh, well." Take the high road and just tell people that DS got the opportunity to go to a concert and the time conflicted with the party, so the party is cancelled. Hopefully, everyone will be able to change their travel/lodging plans at this point with no penalty since we're months out from the date. Trashtalk the xDH only to close girlfriends. Go out on Saturday with some girlfriends and have a great time! This, except I wouldn't be cancelling anything. DS wants to go to Denver on the Saturday? He can cancel. Have him call the caterers and any other vendors that have been booked, as well as anyone who has already been invited, while you sit back and have a glass (or bottle) of wine.
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lurkyloo
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Dec 5, 2018 6:53:08 GMT
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Post by lurkyloo on Jan 11, 2019 19:49:33 GMT
Maybe I’m missing it in the thread, but did your son want a family graduation party? Or did he just agree to it? Might he be hesitant to admit that, making it seem more out of his hands?
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Post by Zee on Jan 11, 2019 19:51:22 GMT
Tell ex and DS that he will be able to leave at 6 pm and after, and not a moment before, because that was what was agreed upon. Your DS shouldn't have to worry about making dad mad, you do it. I know he's 18 but he's still a kid where his dad is concerned.
Or, plan the party for a different day or cancel altogether. It's only January so I think cancelling or rearranging a May party should be doable for most everyone.
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Post by Really Red on Jan 11, 2019 21:33:48 GMT
UGH. I am so sorry you have such a hateful ex. I know you've calmed down a bit and see that your son is really stuck in the middle and I'm glad you've decided he's going to your party regardless.
FWIW, not one of my three kids wanted a HS graduation party. In fact, my girls were the worst. The total worst. I finally sat them down and said, "Hey. Over the past 6 years I have raised the both of you 100% on my own. This party is my reward. Now do you have any questions?" It was quite literally enough. They just were self-centered and thinking of themselves (like all teens do).
With my son, who just graduated, I stopped it way in advance. This party is for me. You will attend and be joyous with everyone. The rest of the week is for you and the rest of your life you can decide. This is for me. He didn't say a peep. My kids really understand what I've been through, but they don't always think about anything but themselves.
So sorry you're going through this. Your ex is a giant ass.
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inkedup
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Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jan 11, 2019 21:36:34 GMT
I'd be pissed as well Ds 2 would get the full wrath of momma on that one. Can't take a stand with Dad? Dont ask me for a damn thing and kiss all those graduation gifts goodbyeThis is where I am at. Don't ask for a damn thing if you can't participate in a party - that he wanted - with people coming to see him. I figured the 'party' would be over by about 4 and told him he could leave after that. Its a 6 hour drive to Denver, and since the concert isn't until Sunday night, they could get there in time. Even leaving at 4 he would get there by 11pm the night before the concert. I am just so angry. At xDH as he knew the plan of what was happening. At DS2 for not insisting on staying for the party and leaving afterwards. I know you are angry and hurt, and I would be, too. But please, try to consider how your son feels. He is caught in the middle and feeling like the bad guy at a time that should be a celebration. I feel for him, too.
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