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Post by smalltowngirlie on Mar 3, 2019 22:46:14 GMT
Someone asked why be polite - this is the reason why. If we get up on a soap box and make sure the other person knows how superior we are to them, nothing will change. If we take the time to make our feelings, beliefs, values known we may change someone. Being polite does not equal being walked on or quiet in my mind. It means treating others with respect, even if they don't necessarily deserve it. Also, I would like to think I would speak up instantly, but if it was someone I thought I knew and this came out of no where, TBH, I am not sure how I wold respond at the moment. Threads like this help me to process my thoughts and be more prepared if I am ever faced with a situation like this. So OP, thank you for sharing, I am learning. I am not saying that she should get on a soap box. As I responded to another poster, sometimes "politeness" shows up as allowing the person who is being racist to be comfortable in that position. Civility is certainly a better option than screaming in someone's face. But, I don't see anything wrong with a firmly worded, "Why would you say something like that to me?" I think we are on the same page, and I believe I saw your response after I responded. Polite, civil, respectful is always something I strive to be, this will start a conversation, even an uncomfortable one, but the conversation will be had. I will also say, those qualities are not ones that mean you (general you) need to back down by any means. It is just how I would speak to them.
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Post by SockMonkey on Mar 3, 2019 23:06:39 GMT
I am not saying that she should get on a soap box. As I responded to another poster, sometimes "politeness" shows up as allowing the person who is being racist to be comfortable in that position. Civility is certainly a better option than screaming in someone's face. But, I don't see anything wrong with a firmly worded, "Why would you say something like that to me?" I think we are on the same page, and I believe I saw your response after I responded. Polite, civil, respectful is always something I strive to be, this will start a conversation, even an uncomfortable one, but the conversation will be had. I will also say, those qualities are not ones that mean you (general you) need to back down by any means. It is just how I would speak to them. I think it's good when people share their stories like this here, too. It helps me practice how I will respond in the moment, because often we're just caught by surprise. I need to be more prepared to have the conversation in the moment and not think of all the things I could've/should've said later. I'm getting better, but practice always helps. A way I might have approached this one is to say, "My nieces are Asian. Not white. Does that change the way you're speaking to me right now?"
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Post by peano on Mar 3, 2019 23:17:30 GMT
I think we are on the same page, and I believe I saw your response after I responded. Polite, civil, respectful is always something I strive to be, this will start a conversation, even an uncomfortable one, but the conversation will be had. I will also say, those qualities are not ones that mean you (general you) need to back down by any means. It is just how I would speak to them. I think it's good when people share their stories like this here, too. It helps me practice how I will respond in the moment, because often we're just caught by surprise. I need to be more prepared to have the conversation in the moment and not think of all the things I could've/should've said later. I'm getting better, but practice always helps. A way I might have approached this one is to say, "My nieces are Asian. Not white. Does that change the way you're speaking to me right now?" I agree. I’m trying to put myself in the OP's position and I know that if someone says something shocking like that, it’s sometimes hard for me to pick my jaw up from the ground and come up with a rapid response. This happened a year ago with a family member and I didn’t recover and respond as well as I had wished. Now that I’ve had lots of time for self-recrimination and review, I hope (if there’s a next time) I will handle it better.
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rickmer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,123
Jul 1, 2014 20:20:18 GMT
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Post by rickmer on Mar 4, 2019 0:03:46 GMT
i have had similar situations come up but not about race, about homosexuality. i said each time that i don't think it's an easy path for people and my sex life is no one's business, neither is it my business who others choose to love or be with. everyone deserves to be happy.
one person pushed back, heavily. my take was "then we will need to agree to disagree" - i was polite and civil but his views are NOT my views and i made sure to the leave the conversation with him knowing that was the case.
sometimes, people don't have a lot of exposure to different races, cultures, sexuality and their default is to parrot things they have always heard.
however, i am pretty sure if i start coming down on someone for "differing views"... they likely aren't even *hearing* me but in many cases just freaked out because the conversation rapidly turned confrontational.
i don't like confrontation but could never agree with something i fundamentally and deeply disagree with.
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Post by SockMonkey on Mar 4, 2019 0:18:33 GMT
I wanted to share a key page on how white people approach conversations about race and feedback from Robin DiAngelo’s “White Fragility,” which I’ve mentioned on here before. HIghlights are mine. Hopefully the text is legible.
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NoWomanNoCry
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,856
Jun 25, 2014 21:53:42 GMT
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on Mar 4, 2019 0:29:38 GMT
I have no issues being friends with people who I disagree with..that being said I draw the line on some things and this would be one. I don’t feel like it’s my job (or yours) to teach someone how to not be a asshole so I wouldn’t say anything to her about what she said. If this was me I would distance myself from her and if she ask then I would be honest and tell her why.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Mar 4, 2019 0:39:32 GMT
I am a Hispanic woman, and I don't think you failed anyone. I have also been in similar situations, and I've often felt unsure of how to respond. It really is jarring, confusing and hurtful to hear something so ugly from someone you thought highly of.
I struggle with the idea of how often I need to be a crusader for my values, and whether I'm a hypocrite for not using every single opportunity as a teachable moment.
Honestly, sometimes, I'm too fucking tired and shocked to have to explain to someone why what they said was shitty. Sometimes, I just want to walk away and not feel like I need to teach or challenge or help someone be a better person.
I would not maintain a close friendship with this woman.
Hugs to you.
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Post by 950nancy on Mar 4, 2019 0:42:54 GMT
You go to the flea market, buy some amazing things. Talk about how nice everyone is, how fun it was. Maybe she’ll want to go with you next time to see, and prove herself wrong. If she says anything like that again, then I would approach the subject however you feel comfortable. What a tough situation... I agree. She might be used to just her white friends and have no idea how much better life is when you don't box yourself into what you are used to experiencing. I wouldn't write her off just yet. People often change when given the opportunity to do so.
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Post by Skellinton on Mar 4, 2019 0:47:37 GMT
Damn, I would have been so shocked I wouldn’t have known what to say either, but I sure as heck wouldn’t want to continue any relationship with this woman. I agree with the previous poster who said you might want to prepare your kids on what to say if they hear something similar from her kids. Some people are just so disgusting.
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,368
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Mar 4, 2019 1:17:05 GMT
I’ve been caught off guard by remarks like that and remained silent out of the shock of actually having someone say something like that to me. It’s a sticky situation and you weren’t prepared for it. Good luck.
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PrettyInPeank
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,691
Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Mar 4, 2019 3:13:00 GMT
I wanted to share a key page on how white people approach conversations about race and feedback from Robin DiAngelo’s “White Fragility,” which I’ve mentioned on here before. HIghlights are mine. Hopefully the text is legible. View AttachmentSo damn accurate. Infuriatingly accurate.
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Post by redhead32 on Mar 4, 2019 3:21:57 GMT
This is how I feel. I just hate being put in this situation when it's someone I see constantly. Damnit. I get it. And I think you can be civil to this person, but I wouldn't go beyond that. I wouldn't seek their company, and I'd probably be cautious about letting my kids play with hers (or at least equip them with some tools to respond should her kids start to parrot some of the things she says). It's really hard. I'm sorry. I'm sort of in this situation. My boys are 4th graders. One of their good friends has parents who are Trump supporting 2nd A absolutists, and think that we need to build the wall. We know each other enough to make small talk in public, but I'm sure they are uncomfortable when their kid comes to our "bleeding heart liberal" house and vice versa. Small town life is complicated in this way.
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Post by disneypal on Mar 4, 2019 3:24:33 GMT
Speaking up and saying something to her, won't change her - I would just stay quiet.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 10, 2024 9:36:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 3:30:40 GMT
This probably why I have no friends, because the first words out of my mouth, oh what the hell!
I would start looking for more friends.
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Post by smalltowngirlie on Mar 4, 2019 12:55:30 GMT
Speaking up and saying something to her, won't change her - I would just stay quiet. How do you know it won’t change her. People change their minds all the time. I grew up in a small town and the only Hispanics I knew were the migrant workers that cane in the summer for about 2 months. Because they were not local and migrants they had a bad reputation and I believed it. As I got older and got to know some my opinion changed. I was educated. It is often said if you say nothing about it you are accepting it. We, general we, should not accept this. We need to speak up, ask questions, have the hard conversations, that is the only way things will change. We never know what will change someone’s mind or what series of conversations will change a persons mind, but we all should be part of it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 10, 2024 9:36:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 13:11:02 GMT
If she doesn't share your values, then I would personally back way off on having a friendship. Be friendLY, but not friends. And yes, politely speak up and ask exactly what she means by that comment. Why do we have to "politely" speak up? Is there something polite about saying that she doesn't want to go to a place where the people aren't white? We have GOT to stop allowing this kind of behavior to feel comfortable for people. I was leaning toward politely since she will have a lot of interaction with that person. I can stand up for what I believe strongly without being ugly about it.
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Post by Really Red on Mar 4, 2019 13:33:27 GMT
I would nope right out of that friendship. I would not want to be near a racist, or associated with one. And what kind of values does she teach her kids? You want your kids ago think you share those views? Fuck her and her nasty racist personality. I read this and immediately felt sad. How are people going to change if you don't help them understand? Wow, what a punch to the gut! Although it's tempting to just slide away from her, how are things going to change if we just drop friendships with everyone who needs schooling? If this woman is otherwise worthwhile as a friend, then maybe it's worth the time to open her eyes. And then she'll be equipped to open the eyes of others... I think it's up to white people to teach other white people not to be racist - I don't know your race, OP, but I'm guessing she wouldn't have felt comfortable saying that if you were a PoC. That really is a crummy surprise, especially if you two have so much other stuff in common and she seemed like a good egg. Then I read what Kate had to say. This is it, although I don't think it's up to white people necessarily. I think everyone can teach people not to be racist, but that won't happen if we drop people because they are racists.
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Post by mygigiscraps on Mar 4, 2019 13:39:42 GMT
You go to the flea market, buy some amazing things. Talk about how nice everyone is, how fun it was. Maybe she’ll want to go with you next time to see, and prove herself wrong. If she says anything like that again, then I would approach the subject however you feel comfortable. What a tough situation... I agree. She might be used to just her white friends and have no idea how much better life is when you don't box yourself into what you are used to experiencing. I wouldn't write her off just yet. People often change when given the opportunity to do so. This. I often think that a lot of what first seems like racism in comments like this is actually fear of the unfamiliar. I also tend to believe that real racist won't be defeated by shame, but rather by exposure to other cultures and races that create the understanding that underneath the skin, we're all just people with families and friends and lives.
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
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Post by likescarrots on Mar 4, 2019 15:33:06 GMT
I would nope right out of that friendship. I would not want to be near a racist, or associated with one. And what kind of values does she teach her kids? You want your kids ago think you share those views? Fuck her and her nasty racist personality. I read this and immediately felt sad. How are people going to change if you don't help them understand? Wow, what a punch to the gut! Although it's tempting to just slide away from her, how are things going to change if we just drop friendships with everyone who needs schooling? If this woman is otherwise worthwhile as a friend, then maybe it's worth the time to open her eyes. And then she'll be equipped to open the eyes of others... I think it's up to white people to teach other white people not to be racist - I don't know your race, OP, but I'm guessing she wouldn't have felt comfortable saying that if you were a PoC. That really is a crummy surprise, especially if you two have so much other stuff in common and she seemed like a good egg. Then I read what Kate had to say. This is it, although I don't think it's up to white people necessarily. I think everyone can teach people not to be racist, but that won't happen if we drop people because they are racists. she knew it wasn't ok to say what she said, that's why she hesitated. No one is going to change a person that thinks it's ok to say what she said in the first place.
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scorpeao
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,521
Location: NorCal USA
Jun 25, 2014 21:04:54 GMT
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Post by scorpeao on Mar 4, 2019 15:45:04 GMT
I don't think I could be friends with her after a comment like that. I had a girlfriend from high school whose husband used the N word over 20 years ago...while I'm friendly with her, I am no longer interested in being friends.
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Post by hdoublej on Mar 4, 2019 15:50:35 GMT
Speaking up and saying something to her, won't change her - I would just stay quiet. How do you know it won’t change her. People change their minds all the time. I grew up in a small town and the only Hispanics I knew were the migrant workers that cane in the summer for about 2 months. Because they were not local and migrants they had a bad reputation and I believed it. As I got older and got to know some my opinion changed. I was educated. It is often said if you say nothing about it you are accepting it. We, general we, should not accept this. We need to speak up, ask questions, have the hard conversations, that is the only way things will change. We never know what will change someone’s mind or what series of conversations will change a persons mind, but we all should be part of it. I have to agree with smalltowngirlie. We can't expect people to change if we don't give them the opportunity. She may not get the message today or tomorrow but it plants the seed that her way of thinking is wrong. One day, she may have that "Ah ha!" moment and she will understand but if we don't say anything, she definitely won't ever see she's wrong.
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Post by Really Red on Mar 4, 2019 16:41:03 GMT
likescarrots you may well be right. I'd rather give someone a chance, though. It doesn't hurt and it may help, right? Particularly if they actually go to the antique shop and RWN (racist white neighbor) see that there is nothing to worry about. I choose to go to a store that's closer to my work than my home. It is 99% minority. Everyone is always SO nice and there is never an issue. People ask me all the time why? And my response is why not? Let them say what they have to say. Fortunately, people are starting to think a little bit more. Rats. I'm leaving that line, but as I rethink it, I think that's not true. People think a little more around me because I call them on it.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Mar 4, 2019 17:48:35 GMT
One of my husband's relatives visited a local Asian market that I also frequent. This woman (husband's relative) is a condescending bigot on a good day, and she's rude to service people.
I've shopped in this market hundreds of times with no issue. My very white husband has shopped there without issue.
And yet this woman claims she was harassed when she tried to shop there. She was supposedly completely ignored by the butcher because of her white skin. She claims she was run down - like literally chased - by an angry Asian woman who wanted to hit her with her cart. Everyone pushed and shoved her. Etc.
This is a 78 year old woman.
Some people will never become more open minded.
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Post by disneypal on Mar 4, 2019 18:27:57 GMT
Speaking up and saying something to her, won't change her - I would just stay quiet. How do you know it won’t change her. People change their minds all the time. I grew up in a small town and the only Hispanics I knew were the migrant workers that cane in the summer for about 2 months. Because they were not local and migrants they had a bad reputation and I believed it. As I got older and got to know some my opinion changed. Perhaps I should have been more clear. I am not saying that you cannot change someone's mind - I do believe that is possible - but telling her one time about how you feel about the particular situation in the OP is most likely not going to change her. As you said, as you matured, you changed your opinion, it wasn't changed after one incident.
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Post by smalltowngirlie on Mar 4, 2019 18:50:30 GMT
How do you know it won’t change her. People change their minds all the time. I grew up in a small town and the only Hispanics I knew were the migrant workers that cane in the summer for about 2 months. Because they were not local and migrants they had a bad reputation and I believed it. As I got older and got to know some my opinion changed. Perhaps I should have been more clear. I am not saying that you cannot change someone's mind - I do believe that is possible - but telling her one time about how you feel about the particular situation in the OP is most likely not going to change her. As you said, as you matured, you changed your opinion, it wasn't changed after one incident. I also said: You are right, one time, one conversation will most likely not change her, but hearing the same message over and over again by a multitude of people may. Also, I believe that showing a racist how you treat others, how you talk about others, how your interact with others of all races, may help to change them. If they interact with me and I am interacting with someone of a different race she will experience the same as me, she may not see it that way because of her pre-conceived ideas, but overtime things might change. I will always try to opt for being the positive, I don't always succeed, but I try.
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Post by disneypal on Mar 4, 2019 19:00:38 GMT
I will always try to opt for being the positive, I don't always succeed, but I try.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Mar 4, 2019 20:03:18 GMT
I would nope right out of that friendship. I would not want to be near a racist, or associated with one. And what kind of values does she teach her kids? You want your kids ago think you share those views? Fuck her and her nasty racist personality. I read this and immediately felt sad. How are people going to change if you don't help them understand? Wow, what a punch to the gut! Although it's tempting to just slide away from her, how are things going to change if we just drop friendships with everyone who needs schooling? If this woman is otherwise worthwhile as a friend, then maybe it's worth the time to open her eyes. And then she'll be equipped to open the eyes of others... I think it's up to white people to teach other white people not to be racist - I don't know your race, OP, but I'm guessing she wouldn't have felt comfortable saying that if you were a PoC. That really is a crummy surprise, especially if you two have so much other stuff in common and she seemed like a good egg. Then I read what Kate had to say. This is it, although I don't think it's up to white people necessarily. I think everyone can teach people not to be racist, but that won't happen if we drop people because they are racists. I don't have a lot of faith that racists can be taught to not be racist. Children? Yes, I think so. Adults who choose to hate? Not so much.
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scrapgirl
Junior Member
Posts: 90
Oct 22, 2014 17:34:49 GMT
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Post by scrapgirl on Mar 4, 2019 22:20:48 GMT
Honestly, I'd contact her and just say that you've been thinking a lot about what she said, and you wanted to follow up because it's been bugging you ever since, and you're not sure how to ascribe anything to her comment other than racism. Repeat to her what she said, and ask what she meant. This will be her chance to either double down, OR you've put her on blast, letting her know that her comment was racist.
I'm sorry. I know that it's hard making friends, and you were probably excited to find someone you jived with.
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Post by sean&marysmommy on Mar 5, 2019 0:29:14 GMT
I understand being caught off guard in the moment. I am a POC, and have had racist comments made to my face, both about other races and my own. And when it's happened, I've been gobsmacked and nearly speechless every time. So I get that, and don't judge anyone who is caught unaware. I think it's not a bad idea, to think about what you'd say in the moment, if it's never happened to you. I have done so, and have a "plan" for next time. That said, I wouldn't want to hang out with someone with these views, esp. if my children were going to be around them too. There's nothing wrong with going back to her now and saying, "you caught me off guard with your comment before. I want you to know how I feel about...." and going on from there. You likely won't change her mind, but at least you'll have your say. Or you can just drop her, and when she asks why, tell her. How nicely you tell her is up to you.
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Post by flanz on Mar 5, 2019 4:18:46 GMT
Wow, what a punch to the gut! Although it's tempting to just slide away from her, how are things going to change if we just drop friendships with everyone who needs schooling? If this woman is otherwise worthwhile as a friend, then maybe it's worth the time to open her eyes. And then she'll be equipped to open the eyes of others... I think it's up to white people to teach other white people not to be racist - I don't know your race, OP, but I'm guessing she wouldn't have felt comfortable saying that if you were a PoC. That really is a crummy surprise, especially if you two have so much other stuff in common and she seemed like a good egg. I agree with you, Kate. A wonderful national organization with local branches to check out is SURJ (Showing Up for Racial Justice). It is by white people for white people so we can learn about issues of racial justice. It is NOT the job of PoC to do the additional work of teaching us. www.showingupforracialjustice.org
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