Deleted
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May 6, 2024 8:15:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 5:06:46 GMT
Good thread from 'winners take all' author on the 'philanthropists', like Bill McGlashan, who are all about helping others, so long as they themselves get to stay at the top of the pyramid. Bill is caught in the scandal.
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Mar 13, 2019 5:07:00 GMT
One of the local families made their donations to USC and Singer from their charitable foundation. I should be surprised but I'm not. Have fun explaining that one to the IRS.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,034
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Mar 13, 2019 5:14:49 GMT
I’ve got a senior anxiously awaiting college decisions, he’s worked so hard and it’s been a grueling process and it could be very easy to get swept up in the competitiveness and the hysteria of it all. But the depravity of having kids fake disabilities to cheat on tests, lying about competing in sports and photo editing faces onto athlete photos, not to mention the amounts of money being thrown around, is mind boggling. At least when parents donate millions to have a building or endowment or whatever, it’s out in the open. If any of these kids didn’t know this was happening, I feel very sorry for them. How devastating to think you’d achieved something and then find out you hadn’t, and that your parents didn’t believe in your abilities to chart a successful path.
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Post by auntkelly on Mar 13, 2019 5:20:47 GMT
I wonder how many parents are going to read this story and say, “Darn, I wish I would have known I could have paid someone to get Junior admitted to Stanford.”
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Post by papersilly on Mar 13, 2019 6:02:25 GMT
The sad thing is that the 50 people who got caught are just a drop in the bucket compared to those who got away with it. A few years ago on a talk radio show, they were discussing ways that students/parents were trying to get an edge on the college apps. A bunch of parents called in and said they had their child put down that they one of the disadvantaged ethnicities to better their chances of getting in. They said that the admissions officers no means to question or test that they are not the ethnicities they claimed to be. so, if the student had grades and extra curricular stuff, they were hoping the race card would tip the scale to acceptance. It was the craziest thing!! Lots of parents claimed their kids were Hispanic or part black or Indian. No surprise, no one falsely claimed to be Asian.
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Post by manda on Mar 13, 2019 7:59:06 GMT
Sad to say, those kids are going to pay the price for this, most likely will effect their careers and other areas of their lives too. No it won't. Maybe I'm jaded but rich people.... They get away with so much. Those kids will be just fine.
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Post by bc2ca on Mar 13, 2019 8:14:13 GMT
Sad to say, those kids are going to pay the price for this, most likely will effect their careers and other areas of their lives too. No it won't. Maybe I'm jaded but rich people.... They get away with so much. Those kids will be just fine. I'm not so sure they will all be fine. I'm not too impressed with Lori Loughlin's girls based on their own influencer postings but kind of feeling it for Huffman's daughter today.
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Post by manda on Mar 13, 2019 8:41:53 GMT
No it won't. Maybe I'm jaded but rich people.... They get away with so much. Those kids will be just fine. I'm not so sure they will all be fine. I'm not too impressed with Lori Loughlin's girls based on their own influencer postings but kind of feeling it for Huffman's daughter today. I live in Los Angeles and have for 15+ years. Those kids will be fine. Memories are short and money is everything. That is reality.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 13, 2019 10:51:03 GMT
I thought politics were irrelevant to this discussion? Does that mean that you consider Elizabeth Warren taking advantage of opportunities that were reserved for Native Americans is somehow different from very wealthy people taking advantage of spots that were reserved for the best students? It only becomes political if these are found to be different because Warren is a politician. But if you consider her as an academic who got an advantage she wasn't entitled to, it's not different at all. To forestall any question about her heritage or what the DNA test she took means or does not mean, the obvious answer here is that Warren is not now nor has she ever been on the Native American rolls. That should have been the end of it right there. When I was a freshly minted college graduate - back when the dinosaurs were still roaming - I told my new employer that I was native American. Not only was I born here, but my ancestors had been here for 300 years. If that didn't make me native, what did? Nope. No go. I was not Native American, they could not claim me as a Native American employee (and get the benefits of hiring a Native American) and that was it. Period. I was naive, didn't know any better, and was firmly corrected. What's Warren's excuse? If you think that's different from buying or cheating your way into college, that's your opinion. My opinion is that it's the same damn thing. Are you sure that Warren used whatever you’re accusing her of to her advantage? You need to fact check better. Harvard clearly stated that her heritage never came up in her interviews. “Warren herself didn’t trumpet this side of her family story. When applying to college and law school, records show that she either identified as white or declined to apply based on minority status.” “Any special treatment? Several people involved in hiring her at Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania lent their weight to that claim. Harvard Law School professor Charles Fried, who served as U.S. Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan and was part of the committee that put Warren in a tenure position, said in a written statement that her ethnicity never came up during the process. Fried, who donated $250 to Warren's campaign, told the Republican, a Springfield, Mass., newspaper, in 2012, "This stuff I hear that she was an affirmative action hire, got some kind of a boost, it is so ludicrous and so desperately stupid and ignorant, it just boggles the mind." Asked about Warren’s minority status, Robert H. Mundheim, the dean who hired Warren at the University of Pennsylvania, told the Boston Globe that summer, "‘I don't think I ever knew that she had those attributes and that would not have made much of a difference." A number of news organizations interviewed dozens of faculty and students from the three law schools where Warren taught, and no evidence emerged that any claim about her ethnic roots played a role in the hiring process.” History has proven that EW has worked hard and earned her way, despite your flimsy (and rhetorical Republican) gaslighting. It’s NOT the same. Warrens parents didn’t use wealth or privilege to pave her way, like this current FBI investigation has revealed or even in the case of trump, Kushner where their parents paid millions to get their mediocre at best kids into college. She didn’t use her “minority status” to advance herself either—there is just no evidence of that—other than trump and other detractors hauling out that myth only to disparage her and call her names. It’s hilarious watching you try to put square pegs in round holes in your sanctimonious handslappy way to disparage what Democrats/liberals post, then do it yourself in a completely irrelevant manner. You’re certainly entitled to formulate an opinion, however when facts are presented that debunk it, you might want to change your claim, otherwise you’re choosing to be ignorant.
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Post by Really Red on Mar 13, 2019 11:13:22 GMT
No it won't. Maybe I'm jaded but rich people.... They get away with so much. Those kids will be just fine. I'm not so sure they will all be fine. I'm not too impressed with Lori Loughlin's girls based on their own influencer postings but kind of feeling it for Huffman's daughter today. But Huffman's daughter knew she didn't take the SATs herself. No sympathy here. I live in Los Angeles and have for 15+ years. Those kids will be fine. Memories are short and money is everything. That is reality. You are probably right, but I am not sad that they are suffering now. I hope that they are young enough that it makes a difference. I do think it will make a difference in the parents. I do not think they will get the roles right now and once you're out of the picture you're out. I also believe that a lot of people didn't get caught. People who are wealthy can always give their kids more advantages. My son went to a private school. He chose not to do his homework, so his grades were not stellar, but still quite good. His SATs were stellar. He had 7 letters and was all-state twice. His very good friend, son of two doctors, did do his homework, so his grades were a bit better, but zero letters and SATs that were below my son's, even with private tutors, etc. He was sent to special camps every summer ($20K camps) and got into the top small engineering school in the country. In fact, many kids in my son's private school went to prestigious camps in the summer. None worked. Not one. All of them got into prestigious schools. Outside my son's grades (and they were still a decent 90%), he had far more on paper than they. But these things matter. So even though these parents didn't bribe anyone (that I am aware of), they still had advantages not available to my child.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Mar 13, 2019 11:28:43 GMT
I thought politics were irrelevant to this discussion? Does that mean that you consider Elizabeth Warren taking advantage of opportunities that were reserved for Native Americans is somehow different from very wealthy people taking advantage of spots that were reserved for the best students? It only becomes political if these are found to be different because Warren is a politician. But if you consider her as an academic who got an advantage she wasn't entitled to, it's not different at all. And you could say the same in defense of the example up thread someone gave about President Trump. But you didn’t, did you? Instead you hand slapped them about making it “political”. I am frankly surprised at this blatant hypocrisy from you.
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Post by hop2 on Mar 13, 2019 11:29:12 GMT
lol, you're not. Although I was thinking it was almost like a Lori Loughlin Lifetime movie. A lifetime movie was the last thing I saw her in. I saw on my Buzzfeed earlier a list of "14 Felicity Huffman tweets that are now awkward". Many of them were of her calling William H. Macy her partner in crime. Or this tweet from Lori Loughlin in June 2013: "My kids will love this fun fact! UberFacts: Research shows homework has no academic value and students are usually given too much." Rather appropriate considering her DD Olivia said she really wanted the “experience of game days” and “partying,” before admitting, “I don’t really care about school, as you guys know.” She also “I don’t know how much of school I’m going to attend, but will talk to my deans and everyone,” Olivia said while describing how she will balance out her busy schedule. Talk about wasting a college admissions slot. For what? Someone whose not even going to bother attending? This is why college admissions people look at social media
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ellen
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,500
Jun 30, 2014 12:52:45 GMT
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Post by ellen on Mar 13, 2019 11:54:11 GMT
Reading through all of this makes me glad that I live in a region where people don't get all goofy about where your kid goes to college.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 8:15:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 12:58:16 GMT
The playing field in the US has ALWAYS been tilted toward the wealthy - what's the saying, "it's not what you know, it's who you know."" Never truer than in money-first-USA. "I Learned in College That Admission Has Always Been For Sale The bribery scandal is no more abhorrent than the completely legal industry that helps many wealthy kids get into the schools of their dreams." www.nytimes.com/2019/03/13/opinion/college-admission-scandal-celebrities.html
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,977
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Mar 13, 2019 13:03:22 GMT
No, she was one of the students who DID take the SAT herself and thought she got the score she got. Her parents paid to have the proctor change the answers after she completed the test on her own.
If you read the complaint, there were a handful of kids who honestly had no idea about what their parents did, including one kid who kept asking his parents why the USC track team sent him the practice schedule, etc. There were some kids who willingly participated in the SAT fraud and some who thought they did that well on their own.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,544
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Mar 13, 2019 13:06:49 GMT
Whoa there was a post here that dissapeared. Hmm What one? I'm late to reading the thread. There was definitely a post that disappeared. It wasn't a "lib" that brought politics into this. I saw the post and almost posted to the person, "why do you have to make everything a political post," but I didn't. Now, that post is gone, and it looks like someone responding to her is the one who brought politics into this.
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Post by ajsweetpea on Mar 13, 2019 13:15:14 GMT
The sad thing is that the 50 people who got caught are just a drop in the bucket compared to those who got away with. A few years ago on a talk radio show, they were discussing ways that students/parents were trying to get an edge on the college apps. A bunch of parents called in and said they had their child put down that they one of the disadvantaged ethnicities to better their chances of getting in. They said that the admissions officers no means to question or test that they are not the ethnicities they claimed to be. so, if the student had grades and extra curricular stuff, they were hoping the race card would tip the scale to acceptance. It was the craziest thing!! Lots of parents claimed their kids were Hispanic or part black or Indian. No surprise, no one falsely claimed to be Asian. A lady I worked with previously said she had her daughter check that she was a difference race than what she was in hopes of gaining admission to a magnet science high school. She figured no one would question her on it. She said she was advised by another mother to do this, as it would increase her chances of getting in. Her daughter was admitted to the magnet and as far as I know, graduated from there. Go figure.
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,253
Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on Mar 13, 2019 13:19:56 GMT
When he got home after work, my husband walked in and said to DS "Well, now you know that your mom and I are NOT among the 800 most crazy parents in America." There are obviously so many layers of privilege involved in college admissions these days, this is just a more extreme example. I can't help but think about the thousands of kids who have tried to do it right - gotten the grades, played the sports, won the competitions, studied for the tests - who have been staring today at rejections from the same schools these families just bought their kids into. My son's middle class friend with his perfect GPA, perfect ACT and his perfect SAT subject tests and his multitude of school sports and activities and international science awards who got deferred ED from one of those schools. And then the kids who don't start with the privileges that allow them to always get the grades, play the sports, etc. and who never even bothered to try for these schools because the deck was always stacked against them. Things are broken in this economy and society and this is just one more symptom of it. I think this is a moment of cognitive dissonance for some. When what we think is true comes smack bang up against the real truth. -What some middle and upper class people thought was true was that if you did everything "right", you had the same shot for your kids at opportunities as everyone else. -What is true is that the rich/famous have always had more opportunities than the rest of us. It's just that middle class parents are now being made aware that everything they did was nothing compared to what really big money can buy. But really, that is the tip of the iceberg. We love to believe that in this country, there is the gold ring just waiting for anyone who reaches hard and high enough for it. That's just not true. From the moment of birth, some people are given multiple chances to grab that ring and given multiple boosts to reach it. Better nutrition, health care, housing -- all give advantages to the middle and upper classes right from the beginning. Access to better education, tutors, parental time -- all give advantages. Access to extra curriculars, coaches, camps -- all give advantages. Access to unpaid internships, meaningful jobs, influential references, classes on how to take tests -- all give advantages. Access to transportation to get to/from all of these opportunities -- all give advantages. Coming from a poor background in which I was the first member of my family to go to college (and my mother the first member on both sides of my family to graduate high school), I became aware pretty early how just being middle class gave you significant, life-altering advantages that are often invisible to those living with those advantages. It is not not a level playing field and never has been... unless you are comparing one socioeconomic class to another. So while, yeah, it's not "fair" that these wealthy parents were able to buy their kid's way into top colleges, it's also not fair that any parent with money can pay for tutors, coaches, camps, testing classes, better education, and so on that gives their kids huge and life altering advantages. But no one is complaining about that inequity because it works in their favor. Oh, yeah, it's legal. But it's not equitable. Nothing in life is when you aren't at the top.
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Post by busy on Mar 13, 2019 13:35:29 GMT
The sad thing is that the 50 people who got caught are just a drop in the bucket compared to those who got away with. A few years ago on a talk radio show, they were discussing ways that students/parents were trying to get an edge on the college apps. A bunch of parents called in and said they had their child put down that they one of the disadvantaged ethnicities to better their chances of getting in. They said that the admissions officers no means to question or test that they are not the ethnicities they claimed to be. so, if the student had grades and extra curricular stuff, they were hoping the race card would tip the scale to acceptance. It was the craziest thing!! Lots of parents claimed their kids were Hispanic or part black or Indian. No surprise, no one falsely claimed to be Asian. This is so gross and racist. Related, I’d encourage everyone to visit Twitter and read the stories of people of color who were legitimately admitted to the schools in this scandal and how they were often treated. Here’s a place to start. There are MANY threads.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Mar 13, 2019 13:41:03 GMT
Growing up poor I learned that life isn't fair. It's life lesson that everyone should learn. It has never been fair and never will be fair. To believe that somehow the government is going to make life "fair" for everyone is a pipe dream. People with more advantages have more advantages. That's life. Having been in some really shitty parts of the world, I would rather be disadvantaged here than anywhere else.
I'm only surprised that people paid so much such a stupid thing, especially those kids that were not interested in college. Is USC fudging Lori's daughter's grades or is someone else taking her classes for her? That girl is not college material.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 13, 2019 13:48:20 GMT
Also, as a college student myself presently (I returned to school when my youngest started kindergarten), I really feel that is unfair for someone to take up a seat that could have been taken by a student who earned their way there, rather than having their parents buy the seat for them. I wonder how many people agree with you on this but who still support Elizabeth Warren. What on earth? Now we ARE making this political? 🤯 Big old can of worms there. 🤷🏻♀️
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Post by pierkiss on Mar 13, 2019 13:52:03 GMT
No it won't. Maybe I'm jaded but rich people.... They get away with so much. Those kids will be just fine. I'm not so sure they will all be fine. I'm not too impressed with Lori Loughlin's girls based on their own influencer postings but kind of feeling it for Huffman's daughter today. They will be completely fine. Even if they get kicked out of school and no other school would dare take them. Their parents are LOADED. They all have trust funds. They will never NEED to work. Their children will probably also never need to work, unless they squander away all that money at lightening speed.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,760
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Mar 13, 2019 13:55:59 GMT
From what I have read on this story it covers admissions to colleges and universities. Then what? they get their less than able kid in and they can't make the grade on course work, exams etc. It begs the question whether more money was needed to aid their graduation.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Mar 13, 2019 14:00:00 GMT
The sad thing is that the 50 people who got caught are just a drop in the bucket compared to those who got away with. A few years ago on a talk radio show, they were discussing ways that students/parents were trying to get an edge on the college apps. A bunch of parents called in and said they had their child put down that they one of the disadvantaged ethnicities to better their chances of getting in. They said that the admissions officers no means to question or test that they are not the ethnicities they claimed to be. so, if the student had grades and extra curricular stuff, they were hoping the race card would tip the scale to acceptance. It was the craziest thing!! Lots of parents claimed their kids were Hispanic or part black or Indian. No surprise, no one falsely claimed to be Asian. This is so gross and racist. When people talk about cultural appropriation this is what it should mean. Not wearing braided hair or hoop earrings (that's just people looking to be offended). Cultural appropriation is not assimilating into your adopted culture or country by wearing clothes, eating foods, enjoying entertainments that are the norm for your area. I'm white and Native American. My grandfather is buried on the reservation. I was not raised on a reservation and am not included on any tribe rolls. Technically, I could probably claim to be NA, but I'm white and was raised that way. I view cultural appropriation as an attempt to gain the advantage of an oppressed people without actually suffering the oppression. That's why the Elizabeth Warren thing really pisses me off. Telling people you have NA heritage is one thing. Actually claiming that heritage on a form is cultural appropriation. She may not have received any advantage for that claim, but I'm not so naive as to believe she didn't think it would help in some way.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 8:15:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 15:26:57 GMT
When he got home after work, my husband walked in and said to DS "Well, now you know that your mom and I are NOT among the 800 most crazy parents in America." There are obviously so many layers of privilege involved in college admissions these days, this is just a more extreme example. I can't help but think about the thousands of kids who have tried to do it right - gotten the grades, played the sports, won the competitions, studied for the tests - who have been staring today at rejections from the same schools these families just bought their kids into. My son's middle class friend with his perfect GPA, perfect ACT and his perfect SAT subject tests and his multitude of school sports and activities and international science awards who got deferred ED from one of those schools. And then the kids who don't start with the privileges that allow them to always get the grades, play the sports, etc. and who never even bothered to try for these schools because the deck was always stacked against them. Things are broken in this economy and society and this is just one more symptom of it. I think this is a moment of cognitive dissonance for some. When what we think is true comes smack bang up against the real truth. -What some middle and upper class people thought was true was that if you did everything "right", you had the same shot for your kids at opportunities as everyone else. -What is true is that the rich/famous have always had more opportunities than the rest of us. It's just that middle class parents are now being made aware that everything they did was nothing compared to what really big money can buy. But really, that is the tip of the iceberg. We love to believe that in this country, there is the gold ring just waiting for anyone who reaches hard and high enough for it. That's just not true. From the moment of birth, some people are given multiple chances to grab that ring and given multiple boosts to reach it. Better nutrition, health care, housing -- all give advantages to the middle and upper classes right from the beginning. Access to better education, tutors, parental time -- all give advantages. Access to extra curriculars, coaches, camps -- all give advantages. Access to unpaid internships, meaningful jobs, influential references, classes on how to take tests -- all give advantages. Access to transportation to get to/from all of these opportunities -- all give advantages. Coming from a poor background in which I was the first member of my family to go to college (and my mother the first member on both sides of my family to graduate high school), I became aware pretty early how just being middle class gave you significant, life-altering advantages that are often invisible to those living with those advantages. It is not not a level playing field and never has been... unless you are comparing one socioeconomic class to another. So while, yeah, it's not "fair" that these wealthy parents were able to buy their kid's way into top colleges, it's also not fair that any parent with money can pay for tutors, coaches, camps, testing classes, better education, and so on that gives their kids huge and life altering advantages. But no one is complaining about that inequity because it works in their favor. Oh, yeah, it's legal. But it's not equitable. Nothing in life is when you aren't at the top. You are absolutely right on how advantage is gained at premier universities. It's not terribly different than the consideration that very talented athletes get. Money and connections are required for admission to an Ivy or Stanford, however, I don't believe that those advantages are necessary to get an education and make something of yourself. There are thousands of other colleges that provide a solid education. This whole scandal reminds me of a book written by the former freshman dean at Stanford. It was eye-opening and suggests that the problem is not wealth, but over-parenting. She talks about several situations in which parents overstep their boundaries in the college admissions process, during college and in the workforce.
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Post by Pahina722 on Mar 13, 2019 15:34:06 GMT
Another perspective from Inside Higher Ed on the situation, with more details of how the different versions of the scam worked: Dozens Indicted
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 13, 2019 15:52:53 GMT
This is so gross and racist. When people talk about cultural appropriation this is what it should mean. Not wearing braided hair or hoop earrings (that's just people looking to be offended). Cultural appropriation is not assimilating into your adopted culture or country by wearing clothes, eating foods, enjoying entertainments that are the norm for your area. I'm white and Native American. My grandfather is buried on the reservation. I was not raised on a reservation and am not included on any tribe rolls. Technically, I could probably claim to be NA, but I'm white and was raised that way. I view cultural appropriation as an attempt to gain the advantage of an oppressed people without actually suffering the oppression. That's why the Elizabeth Warren thing really pisses me off. Telling people you have NA heritage is one thing. Actually claiming that heritage on a form is cultural appropriation. She may not have received any advantage for that claim, but I'm not so naive as to believe she didn't think it would help in some way. I’ll agree, with one caveat. When EW was applying for colleges (filling out the 3 forms) she answered to what she knew by her stories told to her by family. DNA testing back then wasn’t mainstream (barely used for police work). Back then, it is most likely that you filled out the forms as to what you’d always known. Can’t fault her for that. She likely did hope that she made connections with groups like herself —she believed what she had been told all her years to date. Why wouldn’t she want to connect? She believed her family stories. I think most of us would. I always thought that I was French, because of our name, stories...My hubby thought he was almost all German, again, family stories passed down. We both did DNA testing last year. I am ZERO French. I’m Irish, English, Slovenian, German. My hubby does have German in him, but only a small fraction—he is mainly Russian, European. I don’t believe that she was attempting a nefarious scam either, like this FBI investigation, nor did her family try to buy her way. It wasn’t until 2012 that the question started to be asked and now she knows. She’s not appropriating anything. What matters is that it has been well noted that it was/has been her hard work that got her where she is now, that her “heritage” didn’t factor.
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Post by busy on Mar 13, 2019 15:59:48 GMT
When EW was applying for colleges (filling out the 3 forms) she answered to what she knew by her stories told to her by family. DNA testing back then wasn’t mainstream (barely used for police work). Back then, it is most likely that you filled out the forms as to what you’d always known. Can’t fault her for that. She identified as white or declined to respond to the question when applying to colleges.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 8:15:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 16:14:41 GMT
I brought up how trump’s father father bought him a Degree ( from Wharton school of business) because a rich person buying their child a degree is nothing new. How many Americans really care?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 13, 2019 16:15:26 GMT
When EW was applying for colleges (filling out the 3 forms) she answered to what she knew by her stories told to her by family. DNA testing back then wasn’t mainstream (barely used for police work). Back then, it is most likely that you filled out the forms as to what you’d always known. Can’t fault her for that. She identified as white or declined to respond to the question when applying to colleges. I had read that she filled out something...ahhh maybe it was the form to join groups at Harvard. (Not gaining admission)
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