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Post by mom on Jul 31, 2019 2:55:15 GMT
the gov of montana was good.. bernie just yells and asks for a movement... if a movement didn't start in 2016 it is not starting now. pete ok but no big wow.. delany and ryan were more impressive and williams was looney. beto is not going ahead I predict.. I think Beto was very good when he was running in Texas, but seems to be struggling in the big leagues. YES! He's in over his head.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jul 31, 2019 3:03:27 GMT
My impression after tonight's debate is that I want more information about Delaney. I feel that way as well (and I am surprised by it). I went in thinking he would be one of the ones to fall back after this debate. But not so. I should probably qualify my statement by saying that *I* have never voted for a Democrat in a presidential election. So I am a crossover. Some of them seem too far out there for my tastes.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Jul 31, 2019 3:04:54 GMT
Warren - ok, but still not a fan Delany, Ryan, Hickenlooper - better than I thought they'd be. I actually felt like these three were 'fighting' to keep in the race. They wanted it Mayor Pete - He's my guy, but I didn't think he was a leader tonight though he did have moments. For me, he is VP material for sure. Bernie - no way could I get behind him. I just cant. Beto - eh. I dont think its his time. But I could see him being a VP candidate. Klobuachar - I think she did ok, but nothing memorable. MW - ugh. just go away and sing kum bah yah somewhere else. Overall, I think Delany and Ryan stood out the most. I saw more about them than I usually did. I hate this format though. I feel like you cant really see what a candidate is really about before their time is over. It does look like the moderates gave a great show. I actually liked this debate more than the first. This is the quandary for the party right now - should they lean far-left and go full-on progressive or should they go for centre-left? They have to keep in mind that moderates are the ones who brought the victory in the House in 2018.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jul 31, 2019 3:07:38 GMT
And I will say that I really, really want to get behind Warren. She is smart, she is tough, she has charisma. I think she's strong enough to take on Trump. I just can't get behind some of her ideas. With that said, I realize that her ideas will need to be debated and decided upon by Congress. So I'm like...hmmm...maybe...
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quiltedbrain
Full Member
Posts: 429
Jun 26, 2014 3:34:53 GMT
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Post by quiltedbrain on Jul 31, 2019 3:10:50 GMT
My main reaction to tonight's debate was how strong my dislike for Delaney is. As someone who works with health insurance for a healthcare provider, what Delaney says about healthcare is WRONG on so many points. Which leads me to wonder what else does he spout off about like he knows but really doesn't??
My DD, the econ and sustainable development major, started yelling at the tv when he said health and education are not markers for climate change. Wrong again!
Right now, Warren is the candidate for me, intellectually and emotionally.
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Post by canadianscrappergirl on Jul 31, 2019 3:21:47 GMT
Watching the pundants and one of them praised MW for her comments on reparation and David Axelrod made a comment about her never becoming the democratic nominee. I dont think she will either but what I think what bugged me is that I remember back with the last election's debates and he and many others joking about DT and there was no way he'd be the nominee!
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Post by femalebusiness on Jul 31, 2019 3:23:28 GMT
Mayor Pete - He's my guy, but I didn't think he was a leader tonight though he did have moments. For me, he is VP material for sure. Bernie - no way could I get behind him. I just cant. I said the same thing earlier tonight. I think Mayor Pete would make a great VP. That would give him time to become seasoned and show what he is all about. It would also give very conservative voters time to get used to the idea of a gay president. If he did VP well I think he could win the presidency later on. He is very young and has time.
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Post by canadianscrappergirl on Jul 31, 2019 3:40:17 GMT
MW was the most searched candidate tonight according to AC on CNN she comes across as a bit nutty but honestly she speaks a lot of truth as she's talking to AC.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Jul 31, 2019 4:12:28 GMT
MW was the most searched candidate tonight according to AC on CNN she comes across as a bit nutty but honestly she speaks a lot of truth as she's talking to AC. I hear you. The reason I’m not impressed is not necessarily because of her New Age-y style. It's because she doesn’t articulate her proposals. Let’s set aside the pundits and let me enumerate some of what I mean: (1) Healthcare - "When we’re talking about health care, we need to talk about more than just the health care plan. We need to realize we have a sickness care, rather than a health care system. We need to be the party talking about why so many of our chemical policies and our food policies and our agricultural policies and our environmental policies and even our economic policies are leading to people getting sick to begin with." (Sounds great and it makes a lot of sense. But what is her healthcare plan?)
(2) Reparations - "First of all, it’s not $500 billion in financial assistance. It’s $500 billion, $200 to $500 billion, payment of a debt that is owed. That is what reparations is. We need some deep truth telling when it comes, we don’t need another commission to look at evidence." (Sounds great again, but where does she propose to get the money?)
(3) "I want politics that “speaks to the heart." (Okay, but what exactly does that mean? What specific policies will speak to the heart?)
(4) "You can’t fight dog whistles, you have to override. And the only way you can override them is with new voices, voices of energy that only come from the fact that America has been willing to live up to our own mistakes, atone for our own mistakes, make amends for our own mistakes, love each other, love our democracy, love future generations." (Sounds wonderful. But what exactly does it mean? How does the sentiment specifically translate to policy?)
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Post by papersilly on Jul 31, 2019 4:24:26 GMT
Mayor Pete stood out to me. Perhaps not as president but as vice president. I don't think my presidential candidate was in tonight's bunch. Upward and onward to tomorrow.
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Post by canadianscrappergirl on Jul 31, 2019 4:25:48 GMT
MW was the most searched candidate tonight according to AC on CNN she comes across as a bit nutty but honestly she speaks a lot of truth as she's talking to AC. I hear you. The reason I’m not impressed is not necessarily because of her New Age-y style. It's because she doesn’t articulate her proposals. Let’s set aside the pundits and let me enumerate some of what I mean: (1) Healthcare - "When we’re talking about health care, we need to talk about more than just the health care plan. We need to realize we have a sickness care, rather than a health care system. We need to be the party talking about why so many of our chemical policies and our food policies and our agricultural policies and our environmental policies and even our economic policies are leading to people getting sick to begin with." (Sounds great and it makes a lot of sense. But what is her healthcare plan?)
(2) Reparations - "First of all, it’s not $500 billion in financial assistance. It’s $500 billion, $200 to $500 billion, payment of a debt that is owed. That is what reparations is. We need some deep truth telling when it comes, we don’t need another commission to look at evidence." (Sounds great again, but where does she propose to get the money?)
(3) "I want politics that “speaks to the heart." (Okay, but what exactly does that mean? What specific policies will speak to the heart?)
(4) "You can’t fight dog whistles, you have to override. And the only way you can override them is with new voices, voices of energy that only come from the fact that America has been willing to live up to our own mistakes, atone for our own mistakes, make amends for our own mistakes, love each other, love our democracy, love future generations." (Sounds wonderful. But what exactly does it mean? How does the sentiment specifically translate to policy?)
I totally agree but the things she spoke to with AC were more in her realm I guess LOL had to do with healing etc maybe her role should be secretary of mental health and healing.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Jul 31, 2019 12:46:51 GMT
To me, Beto comes across as the kid at the adult table, and not in a charming precocious way.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 31, 2019 13:26:00 GMT
I wasn't able to watch but wish that Klobuchar would get some momentum. She is my favorite but doesn't seem to be on people's radar.
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Post by auntkelly on Jul 31, 2019 13:54:03 GMT
I think it would be a big mistake for the Democrats to nominate Bernie or Warren. I don't think medicare for all will appeal to swing voters. Warren and Bernie would be constantly defending medicare for all on the campaign trail and never have a chance to talk about anything else. I also think it will alienate some of the Democratic base-blue collar union workers who are happy w/ their insurance policies.
I sense that the average American voter is sick of all the divisiveness and is looking for more moderate candidates from both parties. Maybe I'm just projecting my own desire on America as a whole.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 22:38:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 14:16:04 GMT
Watching the excerpts of the debate.
I agree with the moderates that it makes more sense to run on what can be done and not big pie in the sky promises that will remain just that.
I do believe one of the reasons so many sit out elections is because of empty promises made by politicians.
Having said that, if Warren or Sanders or even Biden, all three at the bottom of my list, become the Democratic nominee I will show up and vote for them.
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Montannie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,486
Location: Big Sky Country
Jun 25, 2014 20:32:35 GMT
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Post by Montannie on Jul 31, 2019 14:51:27 GMT
I think the governor of Montana is new to the race. From what I've read, people in Montana really like him and wish he would run for senate. That would be a better option. The possibility of flipping a state like Montana is one of the big ideas I'd like to see implemented. I like him too, but far better for Senator.
He has won governor 3 times in Montana a RED state.
He's a two-term governor; he followed a two-term Dem governor (Schweitzer). Our legislature is RED, but we have a penchant for electing Democratic Governors. Probably will not in 2020, though.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,375
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Jul 31, 2019 15:05:56 GMT
I agree. He will never be President if this is the hill he wants to die on. Yes. Build on Obamacare (jaysus, just passing that almost took the lifeblood of the Dems and now we're getting rid of it?!) and provide a public option such as Medicare. Exactly. I'm in Canada, and even we have insurance companies who offer extended benefits. Bernie is right that we don't pay for hospital stays (unless we want a private room, tv) or surgeries. Medications, it depends
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 22:38:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 15:11:32 GMT
Watching another sound bite..
Elizabeth Warren..
”We are Democrats, we aren’t taking health care away from anyone...”
True, but what the M4A crowd is doing is taking away choice. And aren’t Democrats big on “Pro-Choice”?
There are a lot of folks ,on both sides, who like their private insurance. Forcing them to change from something they like and they are comfortable with might not be the best way to boot out trump...
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Post by ntsf on Jul 31, 2019 15:16:02 GMT
I think people need an illusion of choice in health care. you really don't have choices unless you have great health insurance from work. if on medicare, you do have choice, but you pay for it. for the under insured, and not insured.. they are just looking for care. and are not running around comparing anything. we have great insurance, have been the consumer of much health care. and we have spent thousands on copays, deductions, co insurance, etc that most could not pay for. we have some choice.most don't really. we need to get over it if we want to provide minimal care for everyone.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Jul 31, 2019 15:39:54 GMT
Yes. Build on Obamacare (jaysus, just passing that almost took the lifeblood of the Dems and now we're getting rid of it?!) and provide a public option such as Medicare. Exactly. I'm in Canada, and even we have insurance companies who offer extended benefits. Bernie is right that we don't pay for hospital stays (unless we want a private room, tv) or surgeries. Medications, it depends Yup. There’s also the basic fact that healthcare in this country was established from the very beginning as a capitalist private enterprise, which is the opposite of other countries. If we had begun with socialized care, then it’s only a natural progression to go full-on Medicare For All because you wouldn’t be saddled with a foundation of private healthcare companies and the pharma industry. Fundamentally, I understand and agree with progressives when they say that healthcare is a right. However, we (the US) cannot demolish entire industries without doing incredible harm. Are our private healthcare and pharmas raking in profits at the expense of the welfare of Americans? Yes, without doubt some or even many are. This is why I believe the better option is to provide Medicare as a public option in the marketplace (a climb Obama could not achieve because of opposition), and in addition, mandate the expansion of Medicaid to more states so more of the working poor have care (there’ll be a fight, for sure, but everything nowadays is a fight). With the passage of time, as more and more people choose the public option, then we could possibly get to that Nirvana of M4A. Incrementally, in other words. But to try and mandate it in one fell swoop is just not realistic.
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Post by Merge on Jul 31, 2019 15:42:27 GMT
This quote from Buttigieg is accurate: "If it's true that if we embrace a far-left agenda, they're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists. If we embrace a conservative agenda, you know what they're going to do? They're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists," Buttigieg said.
"So let's just stand up for the right policy, go out there and defend it."
We can’t win at the “we’re not socialists” game because the right is so committed to that narrative, they’ve made half of America believe it means something it doesn’t.
Personally, I think even if Warren was elected, she’d have a long struggle to get a pure Medicare for All plan through congress. We’d end up with something more like what Buttigieg proposes, with Medicare for those who want it and space in the market for private insurance.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with tacking hard left on this issue in the primaries. We have to be able to show America that electing a Democrat would be a meaningful difference from Trump. Shoot for an over the moon goal and then compromise your way down to something reasonable. I tend to think Obama’s biggest mistake with the ACA was not pushing far enough - what he ended up with as a compromise wasn’t anything close to what it was supposed to be.
If we’re wish-washy moderates, there’s no incentive to turn out. Ask Mitt Romney and John McCain. Heck, ask Hillary Clinton. Moderate presidential candidates do not win in this environment. Movement candidates win. Congress is the moderating factor when they do.
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Post by Merge on Jul 31, 2019 15:44:33 GMT
And I’ve said before and will say again - taking advice from past Trump voters in who Democrats should run is about the stupidest thing we can do IMO. Let the Republicans run their own campaign. Our messaging has to be, “See this mess? We had nothing to do with this and want nothing to do with it.”
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Post by littlemama on Jul 31, 2019 15:50:17 GMT
A bunch of these folks need to leave the race, go home and win Senate seats (looking at you, Beto). Bernie would be nearly 80 at the time of inauguration and he needs to step out- not a Democrat, shouldnt be interfering with the Democrats.
Elizabeth Warren and Pete Buttigieg are my top 2 and have been for quite some time.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 31, 2019 16:11:41 GMT
Watching the excerpts of the debate. I agree with the moderates that it makes more sense to run on what can be done and not big pie in the sky promises that will remain just that. I do believe one of the reasons so many sit out elections is because of empty promises made by politicians. Having said that, if Warren or Sanders or even Biden, all three at the bottom of my list, become the Democratic nominee I will show up and vote for them. I know that many liberals do not want to hear this, but I think that this is true. Tim Ryan is correct about many( not all) union members liking their healthcare. And not just union members. And anyone who was paying attention during the ACA debate-before it became law- knows how difficult it was to pass. Medicare for all is a worthy goal, but is not realistic right now, IMO.
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Post by lisae on Jul 31, 2019 16:53:09 GMT
I think it would be a big mistake for the Democrats to nominate Bernie or Warren. I don't think medicare for all will appeal to swing voters. Warren and Bernie would be constantly defending medicare for all on the campaign trail and never have a chance to talk about anything else. I also think it will alienate some of the Democratic base-blue collar union workers who are happy w/ their insurance policies. I sense that the average American voter is sick of all the divisiveness and is looking for more moderate candidates from both parties. Maybe I'm just projecting my own desire on America as a whole. I agree. The only thing that matters to me is defeating Trump in November. All the democrats and those who hate Trump will vote for whomever the nominee is. The Republicans are behind Trump even if they don't like him and most just won't vote for a democrat. That leaves the middle who will be persuaded by the candidate that does the most for them personally. Warren is a very smart person but her demographic will not play well in the south at all and we have at least two swing states - NC and Florida. She might do okay in Florida but if not, she will not win. She will not get enough votes in NC because not only are her ideas very, very left, she is a former college professor from Massachusetts. That may not be fair but it is how it is. There is still a lot of prejudice against 'northerners' in the south. I know Trump was elected despite being from NYC but the choice was him or Clinton who left the south to take up residence in NY. I'm not even sure people realize that they still have that geographic prejudice but they do. Bernie's just too old. He says he has been fighting for Medicare for All his entire career. That to me says it all. If it was such a great idea, he would have gotten somewhere with it by now and he would have better answers for his challengers than 'I wrote the damn bill.' His frustration that several people have taken his idea and are getting further with it than he does, shows. I can understand it but again, all that matters is winning in November 2020. It isn't anyone's turn, it isn't about electing a woman or minority while that might happen, it's about defeating Trump. Period.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 31, 2019 17:25:44 GMT
I think it would be a big mistake for the Democrats to nominate Bernie or Warren. I don't think medicare for all will appeal to swing voters. Warren and Bernie would be constantly defending medicare for all on the campaign trail and never have a chance to talk about anything else. I also think it will alienate some of the Democratic base-blue collar union workers who are happy w/ their insurance policies. I sense that the average American voter is sick of all the divisiveness and is looking for more moderate candidates from both parties. Maybe I'm just projecting my own desire on America as a whole. I agree. The only thing that matters to me is defeating Trump in November. All the democrats and those who hate Trump will vote for whomever the nominee is. The Republicans are behind Trump even if they don't like him and most just won't vote for a democrat. That leaves the middle who will be persuaded by the candidate that does the most for them personally. Warren is a very smart person but her demographic will not play well in the south at all and we have at least two swing states - NC and Florida. She might do okay in Florida but if not, she will not win. She will not get enough votes in NC because not only are her ideas very, very left, she is a former college professor from Massachusetts. That may not be fair but it is how it is. There is still a lot of prejudice against 'northerners' in the south. I know Trump was elected despite being from NYC but the choice was him or Clinton who left the south to take up residence in NY. I'm not even sure people realize that they still have that geographic prejudice but they do. Bernie's just too old. He says he has been fighting for Medicare for All his entire career. That to me says it all. If it was such a great idea, he would have gotten somewhere with it by now and he would have better answers for his challengers than 'I wrote the damn bill.' His frustration that several people have taken his idea and are getting further with it than he does, shows. I can understand it but again, all that matters is winning in November 2020. It isn't anyone's turn, it isn't about electing a woman or minority while that might happen, it's about defeating Trump. Period. This is what I fear, although I really hope that I’m wrong. I really like Warren, although I don’t think that she is being realistic about healthcare. I worry that she would not carry moderates-and we will need them. I would love to be proven wrong.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jul 31, 2019 18:02:22 GMT
This is what I fear, although I really hope that I’m wrong. I really like Warren, although I don’t think that she is being realistic about healthcare. I worry that she would not carry moderates-and we will need them. I would love to be proven wrong. Both she and Bernie lack flexibility... Retired, I have medicare and also negotiated paid secondary medical coverage. Together they do not pay the medical bills in full. I am extremely fortunate that my doctors, lab, hospitals, specialists, accept payment as payments in full! I also have negotiated employer paid RX coverage with a very reasonable copay!. I do NOT want any part of that to change PERIOD!
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,374
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Jul 31, 2019 18:25:40 GMT
I think Beto was very good when he was running in Texas, but seems to be struggling in the big leagues. YES! He's in over his head. So agreed, and yes, I voted for him here. He honestly needs more experience. I'd like to see him run for something in Texas again - I thought it was a mistake to throw his hat into the presidential ring. I rather suspect he didn't want to do it and was talked into it, thus part of why he seems to be struggling.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Jul 31, 2019 19:00:52 GMT
YES! He's in over his head. So agreed, and yes, I voted for him here. He honestly needs more experience. I'd like to see him run for something in Texas again - I thought it was a mistake to throw his hat into the presidential ring. I rather suspect he didn't want to do it and was talked into it, thus part of why he seems to be struggling. Yes, but here’s a surprising tidbit (I just saw this today)…per Univ of Texas, Beto is 49% and Trump is 38% in the state, mostly due to Independents.
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Post by Merge on Jul 31, 2019 19:11:24 GMT
YES! He's in over his head. So agreed, and yes, I voted for him here. He honestly needs more experience. I'd like to see him run for something in Texas again - I thought it was a mistake to throw his hat into the presidential ring. I rather suspect he didn't want to do it and was talked into it, thus part of why he seems to be struggling. He needs to come back and run against Cornyn.
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