PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,738
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Oct 10, 2019 1:02:04 GMT
Are you talking about a line in the sand where you won't associate with people anymore? I find it fascinating, in a human nature way, not only what that line is but also how close to home that line is crossed often determines to some when that line feels crossed. Religious persecution is often ok until when and if it affects their religion/beliefs. Racism and homophobia don't affect many people so they can and often do ignore, living their life in oblivion. Until they find out it affects someone they love that they weren't aware of before. The line was crossed long before but just not so close to home- enough that they can feel it. It's a shame when the pain has to be felt personally to care, speak out or do anything about it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 8:20:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 1:46:53 GMT
Ellen was not talking to me. I try to be kind and polite to everyone. She said be kind. She did not say be their friend. I can be polite to an idiot or an asshole. I will not be their friend. There is a difference between be kind and be a friend.
Although I have decided I will not subject myself to the racist asshole in my family so there is no be kind for them. I simply will not interact with them.
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Post by refugeepea on Oct 10, 2019 1:54:20 GMT
I'm Jewish, so right about 1930-1933 for me as the Nazi party gained power in the German parliament. And my ancestors are grateful for those who stood up for them and helped them escape the Nazis. That's exactly what (IMO) we should be doing for those who are marginalized in these times. See this is where I have issues. For my mental sanity, I stay away from confrontation. I don't regularly visit Facebook. I turn off all notifications. When I do go there, the ignorance is astounding! Not just in politics. When you point out facts, they turn into the victim or they start calling you hateful. Besides voting, I'm not sure what is the best way to interact.
Now I have family members that are Trump supporters. We have agreed that we do not discuss politics. The qualities that these family members have that seem to have blossomed with Trump as president, were quite frankly, always there. I know these family members will be there long after Trump is gone and it is for that reason, I have to swallow that they support him. They are very susceptible to disinformation. What's been surprising for me, was people I didn't think would ever be that way. Two of my husband's relatives. Intelligent people. One family; small business owners and extremely successful. They have biracial grandchildren. The other family; the husband was one of the top leaders in a company that sells items internationally.
I guess I don't understand Ellen's comments. She was going to have a singer on her show (can't remember the name) and then it came out she had made homophobic comments and she was uninvited.
Wouldn't it have been better for her to invite the singer on her show and have a one on one conversation?
I don't know for sure if it's true, but I heard she's a nightmare to work for. She doesn't have a reputation for being kind to most of the staff.
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smginaz Suzy
Pearl Clutcher
Je suis desole.
Posts: 2,606
Jun 26, 2014 17:27:30 GMT
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Post by smginaz Suzy on Oct 10, 2019 3:15:00 GMT
Sorry, until George W. Bush is brought to justice for the crimes of the Iraq War, (including American-lead torture, Iraqi deaths & displacement, and the deep scars—emotional & otherwise—inflicted on our military that served his folly), we can’t even begin to talk about kindness. t.co/dpMwfck6su — Mark Ruffalo (@markruffalo) October 9, 2019
I am with Ruffalo on this one. But I am having the worst time trying to format his tweet.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,502
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Oct 10, 2019 3:34:12 GMT
Ellen is entitled to her opinion. I’m entitled to disagree with her.
I have no kindness to give to racists or homophobes both of which I believe GWB to be.
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Post by birdgate on Oct 10, 2019 3:40:43 GMT
She's a public figure. I just see it as her job and brand to get along with everyone. She has big sponsors. That's why her show is successful. When you show up to these VIP events/areas you don't always know what asshole is going to be there. She's not intimate with him or asking him to be her child's godfather or anything like that. People forget what a devil Bush was and what hell his wars were. It's fascinating to see everyone treating him as the lesser of two evils. People have never had a problem over Michelle Obama's hugs and photo ops with him.
I stay 'friends' with some trump supporters because I like to keep my eye on what propaganda links and memes they're posting so I can trace where they're coming from.
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Post by gardengoddess on Oct 10, 2019 4:33:56 GMT
I love Ellen. I really don't care who she's friends with, I'm not a part of her life.
Me? I can be civil to people who have different political views, but I will not be their friend if they support that complete waste of human space that occupies the WH. Nope, not happening. Too different in our value systems and if they are self professed evangelical Christian, I'll go so far to admit that I look at them in disgust.
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Post by lucyg on Oct 10, 2019 4:39:04 GMT
So this is where I used to stand: She has no issue with civil unions or giving same sex couples all the state/civil/legal benefits - she just wants to limit the use of the word to heterosexual couples. However, I have learned and grown and matured as hopefully we all do over the span of 20 years. What janeliz says below is true, and I believe what I quoted from Merge is also true. Good hang. But saying it’s about “beliefs” is a dodge. Be friends with people who disagree. Be kind to everyone. Bush led the campaign against your marriage. His two Supreme Court justices dissented in the marriage equality case. To be fair - it’s my understanding that Bush’s beliefs about human rights have changed, and if he were a candidate today, I don’t think he’d be electable because he’s not socially conservative enough. Where I was 20 some years ago, I had actually had fairly minimal exposure to gay people. I'm honestly not sure I even knew they existed until I was in college. I wasn't stupid, just naive. My point is that sometimes when you've grown up and lived a certain way (in my case, marriage is a man and a woman, and it's basically forever) that changing and/or growing takes time. I do not know what Bush's personal views are now, and yes, I disagree with things that he and his government did. I did not disagree with banning gay marriage at the time, but I have since changed my mind. I have also heard that his human rights beliefs have altered, although I have not heard it from his mouth. Perhaps he, too, has grown up. I voted against same-sex marriage in California in 2000. By 2008 when it was on the ballot again, I was totally over it, and voted in favor of same-sex marriage. LOTS of people have changed their minds in the years since DOMA. In my case, it was that list floating around the web of 1,000+ legal rights that civil unions did NOT confer upon gay couples because they weren’t legally married. I could no longer believe that civil unions conferred the same rights without the word “marriage.” It was time. I sure hope this Supreme Court isn’t going to crank the clock backwards on us.
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Post by flanz on Oct 10, 2019 17:42:54 GMT
Are you talking about a line in the sand where you won't associate with people anymore? I find it fascinating, in a human nature way, not only what that line is but also how close to home that line is crossed often determines to some when that line feels crossed. Religious persecution is often ok until when and if it affects their religion/beliefs. Racism and homophobia don't affect many people so they can and often do ignore, living their life in oblivion. Until they find out it affects someone they love that they weren't aware of before. The line was crossed long before but just not so close to home- enough that they can feel it. It's a shame when the pain has to be felt personally to care, speak out or do anything about it. Agreed that this is true for many, and I can't wrap my head around it. What's so hard about caring for others, the marginalized and disadvantaged among us?
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Post by flanz on Oct 10, 2019 17:44:06 GMT
So this is where I used to stand: However, I have learned and grown and matured as hopefully we all do over the span of 20 years. What janeliz says below is true, and I believe what I quoted from Merge is also true. Where I was 20 some years ago, I had actually had fairly minimal exposure to gay people. I'm honestly not sure I even knew they existed until I was in college. I wasn't stupid, just naive. My point is that sometimes when you've grown up and lived a certain way (in my case, marriage is a man and a woman, and it's basically forever) that changing and/or growing takes time. I do not know what Bush's personal views are now, and yes, I disagree with things that he and his government did. I did not disagree with banning gay marriage at the time, but I have since changed my mind. I have also heard that his human rights beliefs have altered, although I have not heard it from his mouth. Perhaps he, too, has grown up. I voted against same-sex marriage in California in 2000. By 2008 when it was on the ballot again, I was totally over it, and voted in favor of same-sex marriage. LOTS of people have changed their minds in the years since DOMA. In my case, it was that list floating around the web of 1,000+ legal rights that civil unions did NOT confer upon gay couples because they weren’t legally married. I could no longer believe that civil unions conferred the same rights without the word “marriage.” It was time. I sure hope this Supreme Court isn’t going to crank the clock backwards on us. Lucy, I love that you kept your mind and heart open to the possibility of changing your mind, and when you knew more you acted on your new knowledge. I wish more people could do that!
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Post by oliquig on Oct 10, 2019 17:51:18 GMT
Nope. Ellen isn't talking to me: I'm nice to everyone. I hold doors for people and make small talk and treat people with kindness. But, no, if you say you support Trump I can't be your friend. I'll be polite - I won't spit on you - but you represent pretty much everything I abhor and I just can't overlook that. That being said, I have plenty of Republican friends - they just despise Trump and what's he's done to their party too. Yay, I don't have to think of the words myself. I can just say: same.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Oct 10, 2019 20:17:59 GMT
So this is where I used to stand: However, I have learned and grown and matured as hopefully we all do over the span of 20 years. What janeliz says below is true, and I believe what I quoted from Merge is also true. Where I was 20 some years ago, I had actually had fairly minimal exposure to gay people. I'm honestly not sure I even knew they existed until I was in college. I wasn't stupid, just naive. My point is that sometimes when you've grown up and lived a certain way (in my case, marriage is a man and a woman, and it's basically forever) that changing and/or growing takes time. I do not know what Bush's personal views are now, and yes, I disagree with things that he and his government did. I did not disagree with banning gay marriage at the time, but I have since changed my mind. I have also heard that his human rights beliefs have altered, although I have not heard it from his mouth. Perhaps he, too, has grown up. Most of the country did a 180 on gay marriage just in the last 10 years. I'll have to go look up some stats. It's really shocking how quickly attitudes have changed. I do know that the Bushes are/were not fans of Trump. That tells me that they have at least some moral underpinnings. Absolutely right. I think that coincides with the amount of people who are openly gay now. Most people personally know someone who is now, so it’s now far more personal to them, as opposed to it being less so and more abstract to them, when more people were “in the closet”.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Oct 10, 2019 20:32:16 GMT
She says to be kind not that you have to put up with abuse or listen to hate.
I have friends with different beliefs and that isn't a problem unless it gets really ugly and full of hate. That's what I'm not going to sit around and listen to no matter which direction it's getting slung at.
I loved her message and completely agree with her on this. I think most people need to take a big step back and just start being kinder. The world would be a lot better off with more kindness. It is pretty rare these days. I know I'm not going to agree with everyone on everything and may totally disagree with people but know I'm not going to change their mind and vice versa. If friends I just figure well we disagree but I know they are good people and move on.
However if they are just abussive and really over the top I need to take a step back for my own health and sanity.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Oct 10, 2019 20:41:40 GMT
I voted against same-sex marriage in California in 2000. By 2008 when it was on the ballot again, I was totally over it, and voted in favor of same-sex marriage. LOTS of people have changed their minds in the years since DOMA. In my case, it was that list floating around the web of 1,000+ legal rights that civil unions did NOT confer upon gay couples because they weren’t legally married. I could no longer believe that civil unions conferred the same rights without the word “marriage.” It was time. I sure hope this Supreme Court isn’t going to crank the clock backwards on us. Lucy, I love that you kept your mind and heart open to the possibility of changing your mind, and when you knew more you acted on your new knowledge. I wish more people could do that! I think hearing the horror stories of those in civil unions and their lack of rights is what changed my mind. I don't think most realized they didn't have the rights they should. I always thought they should have those rights. People do change their minds. I think most have changed their minds in the last decade or two.
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J u l e e
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Oct 10, 2019 21:32:56 GMT
She says to be kind not that you have to put up with abuse or listen to hate. I have friends with different beliefs and that isn't a problem unless it gets really ugly and full of hate. That's what I'm not going to sit around and listen to no matter which direction it's getting slung at. I loved her message and completely agree with her on this. I think most people need to take a big step back and just start being kinder. The world would be a lot better off with more kindness. It is pretty rare these days. I know I'm not going to agree with everyone on everything and may totally disagree with people but know I'm not going to change their mind and vice versa. If friends I just figure well we disagree but I know they are good people and move on. However if they are just abussive and really over the top I need to take a step back for my own health and sanity. I'm not picking on this message, I just want to say that while the world could always use MORE kindness, I don't think kindness is rare. There are endless examples of kindness all around. I don't really have a point other than that.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,589
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Oct 10, 2019 21:37:37 GMT
Lucy, I love that you kept your mind and heart open to the possibility of changing your mind, and when you knew more you acted on your new knowledge. I wish more people could do that! I think hearing the horror stories of those in civil unions and their lack of rights is what changed my mind. I don't think most realized they didn't have the rights they should. I always thought they should have those rights. People do change their minds. I think most have changed their minds in the last decade or two. To quote Cyndi Lauper: "you change the world when you change your mind."
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Post by flanz on Oct 10, 2019 21:46:54 GMT
Lucy, I love that you kept your mind and heart open to the possibility of changing your mind, and when you knew more you acted on your new knowledge. I wish more people could do that! I think hearing the horror stories of those in civil unions and their lack of rights is what changed my mind. I don't think most realized they didn't have the rights they should. I always thought they should have those rights. People do change their minds. I think most have changed their minds in the last decade or two. I don't know about most, but i'm really glad that you, too, had an open mind, Scrapper100!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 8:20:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 0:07:17 GMT
As many stated in the other thread, cutting Trump supporters off as friends, is specifically about morals. The behavior and commentary of Trump and his supporters and not beliefs or politics. The fact is, that it's about your ASSUMPTION of their morals... your opinion based on what YOU think of what goes on in a certain political instance and your assumption that they see it the same way you do and yet like it. Which, most of the time isn't true. You feel you're standing up against hatred and bigotry and yet "don't see any disconnect in your actions" or the actions of those that think like you. We have people getting the crap beat out of them because of a hat. The people that do this don't know anything about the person, they're always a complete stranger. They make complete assumptions from a red hat. They don't know anything about what they agree with beyond making America great. You absolutely can not hear their thoughts because they wear a red hat. That's not how this works. It's no better than judging someone by the color of their skin. So, I guess my line is when people show me their true colors in that they support taking away people's rights, discrimination, treating people poorly. But she also taught me to stand up for what I believe in.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Oct 19, 2019 0:24:46 GMT
As many stated in the other thread, cutting Trump supporters off as friends, is specifically about morals. The behavior and commentary of Trump and his supporters and not beliefs or politics. The fact is, that it's about your ASSUMPTION of their morals... your opinion based on what YOU think of what goes on in a certain political instance and your assumption that they see it the same way you do and yet like it. Which, most of the time isn't true. You feel you're standing up against hatred and bigotry and yet "don't see any disconnect in your actions" or the actions of those that think like you. We have people getting the crap beat out of them because of a hat. The people that do this don't know anything about the person, they're always a complete stranger. They make complete assumptions from a red hat. They don't know anything about what they agree with beyond making America great. You absolutely can not hear their thoughts because they wear a red hat. That's not how this works. It's no better than judging someone by the color of their skin. So, I guess my line is when people show me their true colors in that they support taking away people's rights, discrimination, treating people poorly. But she also taught me to stand up for what I believe in. I’m not sure which part of your post was in reference to me, but I am talking about people who specifically have said or posted racist, discriminatory things. However, the fact that you don’t see something as racist or discriminatory doesn’t mean that you are right, either.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 8:20:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 0:39:20 GMT
The fact is, that it's about your ASSUMPTION of their morals... your opinion based on what YOU think of what goes on in a certain political instance and your assumption that they see it the same way you do and yet like it. Which, most of the time isn't true. You feel you're standing up against hatred and bigotry and yet "don't see any disconnect in your actions" or the actions of those that think like you. We have people getting the crap beat out of them because of a hat. The people that do this don't know anything about the person, they're always a complete stranger. They make complete assumptions from a red hat. They don't know anything about what they agree with beyond making America great. You absolutely can not hear their thoughts because they wear a red hat. That's not how this works. It's no better than judging someone by the color of their skin. I’m not sure which part of your post was in reference to me, but I am talking about people who specifically have said or posted racist, discriminatory things. However, the fact that you don’t see something as racist or discriminatory doesn’t mean that you are right, either. The part I bolded, about "treating people poorly". I agreed with it and it went along with what I was saying too. Treating people poorly when you disagree with them politically is no better than treating people poorly because they have a different skin color or sexual orientation. I have seen, way too many times, people called racist with no actual evidence of racism whatsoever in what they said. Sometimes it's for no other reason than WHO they disagree with and THEIR skin color, as if the only reason they could disagree with a person of color is because of their skin. That's absurd. So yes, when there is no racism present in a disagreement, it isn't racism. Racism is too often used as a weapon.
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Post by LiLi on Oct 19, 2019 3:16:34 GMT
As many stated in the other thread, cutting Trump supporters off as friends, is specifically about morals. The behavior and commentary of Trump and his supporters and not beliefs or politics. The fact is, that it's about your ASSUMPTION of their morals... your opinion based on what YOU think of what goes on in a certain political instance and your assumption that they see it the same way you do and yet like it. Which, most of the time isn't true. You feel you're standing up against hatred and bigotry and yet "don't see any disconnect in your actions" or the actions of those that think like you. We have people getting the crap beat out of them because of a hat. The people that do this don't know anything about the person, they're always a complete stranger. They make complete assumptions from a red hat. They don't know anything about what they agree with beyond making America great. You absolutely can not hear their thoughts because they wear a red hat. That's not how this works. It's no better than judging someone by the color of their skin. Speaking of assumptions... Your post is full of assumptions. It is not even remotely what I said, or what I meant. (or do, or agree with) so, whatever.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 8:20:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 4:11:45 GMT
The fact is, that it's about your ASSUMPTION of their morals... your opinion based on what YOU think of what goes on in a certain political instance and your assumption that they see it the same way you do and yet like it. Which, most of the time isn't true. You feel you're standing up against hatred and bigotry and yet "don't see any disconnect in your actions" or the actions of those that think like you. We have people getting the crap beat out of them because of a hat. The people that do this don't know anything about the person, they're always a complete stranger. They make complete assumptions from a red hat. They don't know anything about what they agree with beyond making America great. You absolutely can not hear their thoughts because they wear a red hat. That's not how this works. It's no better than judging someone by the color of their skin. Speaking of assumptions... Your post is full of assumptions. It is not even remotely what I said, or what I meant. (or do, or agree with) so, whatever. Nope. I know it's not what you said or agree with, that's the point.
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Post by LiLi on Oct 19, 2019 4:23:06 GMT
Speaking of assumptions... Your post is full of assumptions. It is not even remotely what I said, or what I meant. (or do, or agree with) so, whatever. Nope. I know it's not what you said or agree with, that's the point. Haha, yeah... No. glhf
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Post by annie on Oct 19, 2019 14:28:29 GMT
Thank you for articulating something I've been unable to express; The oddness of people who don't believe in LGBTQ rights now saying, "be like Ellen." Yes yes yes!! My FB was full of my Conservative friends sharing the video. I'm like - huh? You hate gay people! You say they're disgusting and going to hell! Smh. Hypocrites.
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