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Post by bc2ca on May 18, 2020 4:18:51 GMT
A twenty year old is invincible. It isn't about thinking the rules don't apply to them, it is about an underdeveloped brain that leads to what we, as adults, think of as poor/stupid decisions. I'll judge a fifty year old going for that swim, but not the twenty year old. I hope they are able to recover his body and give the family and community closure.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,088
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on May 18, 2020 4:39:23 GMT
Of course it would, which is why she said it here instead of where it was being reported. Obviously anybody close to the person that died would be heartbroken. That doesn't negate the fact that if this person had followed the rules, they would still be alive. Members of search and rescue teams put their lives on the line to go into unsafe waters to rescue people who don't follow the guidelines. the rescue team can also suffer psychological trauma if/when they find the body (or in some cases because they do not find the body). I get that but I still can't bring myself to say such things about young people who don't always think clearly. Rescuers would probably tell you they do their jobs to help people like this rather than bitching that their lives were endangered. I wouldn't pretend to speak for all rescuers but most people in those type of jobs aren't the type to develop PTSD from rescuing a body. It's sad when someone dies and then you move on to the next thing. Not a valid reason to finger-wag this poor dead kid. Can’t judge people who make shitty decisions with life altering consequences but we can judge the “type” of people who develop PTSD. Check The peas are indeed an interesting bunch
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tanya2
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1604
Posts: 4,427
Jun 27, 2014 2:27:09 GMT
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Post by tanya2 on May 18, 2020 4:43:46 GMT
oh my gosh I hadn't heard about this! How awful! I've heard so many stories over the years of injuries (or worse) in that quarry and at the gorge. I personally had a scary incident tubing at the gorge and have never gone since. His poor family
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Post by drummergirl65 on May 18, 2020 5:18:33 GMT
For all we know, he may have been drinking, he may have been suicidal, we just don't really know. I say err on the side of compassion. It costs you nothing
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Post by gar on May 18, 2020 9:39:15 GMT
This doesn't feel like an entitled 'rules don't apply to me' type situation
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on May 18, 2020 11:44:26 GMT
Our little community is home to a famous quarry. If you've seen IT (the new version) - the quarry the kids are swimming in and jumping into the water - was filmed in our quarry. It is CLOSED to the public. It usually is closed until late June (never mind the Covid issues). Yet today, some 20 year old male was SWIMMING in it (it's the middle of May in Ontario, the water can't be warm enough for that), went under the surface and hasn't been seen since. It is now listed as a recovery on the news. And yet somehow I'd be deemed the awful bitch for saying it out loud. The waste of police & rescue/recovery resources all because somebody felt the rules didn't apply to them. Ugh. Someone's child died - for whatever reason - and you OUT LOUD said, effectively, that he deserved it? Seems to me that you're being called what you are. They're telling the truth, just like you. I'm beginning to really dislike people.
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joelise
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,649
Jul 1, 2014 6:33:14 GMT
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Post by joelise on May 18, 2020 12:00:43 GMT
That is so sad. How awful for his family and friends.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on May 18, 2020 12:10:48 GMT
I get the notion of making a probably unpopular statement in what the OP must have considered a “safe zone.” But this falls under the “best left unsaid” category for me no matter where it’s uttered.
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Post by peano on May 18, 2020 12:52:33 GMT
I have a 20-year-old son and the OP just struck me as callous and out of character for what I know from previous postings.
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Post by hop2 on May 18, 2020 12:54:11 GMT
It’s not about the waste of ‘resources’ it’s about other people’s LIVES. Lives are more than ‘resources’
The people going to Rescue the person or recover the body will be risking their LIVES!
It’s like the morons who go surfing during a hurricane. You know it’s coming, you know that your not supposed to but omg the waves! Well asshat what if we say ‘we’ ( first responder we ) are not going to race out to help you if you have a problem. You know the hurricane is coming, you know the weather will put people in danger, but you don’t care, your thrill is more important.
It’s not like something suddenly happened Without a lot of warning, like maybe a lightening strike or an avalanche or a fire. Sometimes those have warning or can be prevented sometimes they can’t be. But you know damn well that the ocean during a hurricane is dangerous. You know better, there’s little to no excuse to put peoples lives at risk.
It is not the money or things used during the rescue or recovery that is the issue it is the LIVES that will be risked.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 18, 2020 13:03:03 GMT
Some things are meant to be kept inside your head.
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Post by Megan on May 18, 2020 13:19:39 GMT
We don’t judge when behavior results in “a waste of resources”. Every person has done something that’s classified as stupid. Sometimes the consequences are brutal. Sometimes we get a pass. We all have a lapse in judgement from time to time. Don’t judge. Who is this "we"? I'm pretty sure I can and do judge but it doesn't mean that I feel any less for those changed by the behavior. I don't wish someone died. I wish someone would have read the sign and learned.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,814
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on May 18, 2020 13:46:23 GMT
I don't think it is necessarily a case of the rules don't apply to me. I have an almost 26 year old son who has always been and probably will always be a bit of a daredevil. He dreams of being on American Ninja Warrior, and training has given him an outlet as an adult. But as a kid...especially a teen, he did the dumbest stuff. One time, in the late winter/early spring, he and his cross country buddies went running in a wildlife area, and they all dared him/offered him money to walk to a log in the middle of a partially frozen pond, and the dumbass did it. How he didn't fall through the ice, I have no idea. He said he could hear it cracking under his feet. Yeah, logically he knew he shouldn't be walking on it, but he felt like it was fine, nothing would happen to HIM.
Guys that age really are just all about the thrill sometimes, not necessarily "I am doing this because I don't care about the rules." I"m sorry this person has probably lost his life, but I do think a little more compassion is in order. If my son would have died during one of his stupid stunts, I would have grieved just as much as anyone who lost their young son. I would hope no one would say, "Well, he is dumb, and doesn't care about the rules, so he deserved it."
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Post by sasha on May 18, 2020 14:24:15 GMT
I've read about the rescues (successful) when people go out in terrible weather when there is ample warning that it is too dangerous and they decided well, fuck it, I want to go rafting, boating, hiking, whatever. I've often thought: awesome they were rescued. Now they should have to pay for the rescue attempts given their decision put other lives in danger.
The sentiment is way harsh. Not sure where OP made her comment. Maybe it was at home and her family thought she was a bitch? On FB? I wonder if OP was really more angered that a life is lost over a stupid decision, like a parent scolding their kid when they do something stupid b/c of the consequences they narrowly avoided. Maybe it just came off wrong.
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Post by sasha on May 18, 2020 14:28:22 GMT
Of course it would, which is why she said it here instead of where it was being reported. Obviously anybody close to the person that died would be heartbroken. That doesn't negate the fact that if this person had followed the rules, they would still be alive. Members of search and rescue teams put their lives on the line to go into unsafe waters to rescue people who don't follow the guidelines. the rescue team can also suffer psychological trauma if/when they find the body (or in some cases because they do not find the body). I get that but I still can't bring myself to say such things about young people who don't always think clearly. Rescuers would probably tell you they do their jobs to help people like this rather than bitching that their lives were endangered. I wouldn't pretend to speak for all rescuers but m ost people in those type of jobs aren't the type to develop PTSD from rescuing a body. It's sad when someone dies and then you move on to the next thing. Not a valid reason to finger-wag this poor dead kid. I really don't know what you mean by this. Do you think that rescuers are adrenaline junkies that are unaffected by deaths? Because you could not be more wrong. They may learn to be more clinical about a dead body, but that does not mean they don't suffer PTSD. That's why there are counselors that work with first responders after a tragedy.
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desertgirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,646
Jun 26, 2014 15:58:05 GMT
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Post by desertgirl on May 18, 2020 14:50:47 GMT
This probably struck too close to home for me as I have a teen who loves swimming. Swimming is the one thing that pulls him away from his computer and out of his shell. He is an excellent swimmer and was very much looking forward to the spring season. Like 99% of swimmers he hasn't been in the water in 2 months - which is 58 days longer than any stretch of time since he was 9 years old. I can't say the number of random vacations that we've interrupted to find a pool for him to swim in. For all the athletes that are struggling to marry their workout with social distancing, swimmers are uniquely affected as little can be recreated outside of the pools which are pretty much universally closed. I haven't a clue about why the kid in the OP chose to swim months before one would typically venture - but I have a guess and whether right or wrong - I grieve for his family. One of my son's teammates put on a wet suit and ventured into a lake which no one would dream of swimming in for several months. There was no tragedy there, but I'd hope that if there was people would offer grace. Darcy Collins - my fingers are arthritic and shaky, thus causing me to hit the inappropriate button and not the like button on your post. I was trying for the like because I, too, have been swimming all of my life. Thank you for your thoughts.
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Post by epeanymous on May 18, 2020 14:59:21 GMT
I am sympathetic to people who make bad decisions, particularly young people who make bad decisions. I will say, I grew up in an area with a ton of irrigation canals, and every year, there was a huge public campaign to remind people not to swim in the canals. Every year, people did, and every year, people drowned. My dad worked at the irrigation district, and I will say, it was obviously hardest on the families of people who lost relatives, but it was also hard on the people who had to do the rescue and recovery work, particularly since the bulk of people who drowned were young.
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Post by snowsilver on May 18, 2020 15:39:10 GMT
I'm just coming back to give a virtual "hug" to the OP. We're doing a little piling on maybe and generally she's a good Pea. We all say things in ways we wish we hadn't later. Me for sure! There is a verse in Psalms that says "Set a guard O Lord over my mouth; keep watch over the door of my lips." I pray that constantly because I NEED it!
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Post by Zee on May 18, 2020 15:51:55 GMT
I get that but I still can't bring myself to say such things about young people who don't always think clearly. Rescuers would probably tell you they do their jobs to help people like this rather than bitching that their lives were endangered. I wouldn't pretend to speak for all rescuers but most people in those type of jobs aren't the type to develop PTSD from rescuing a body. It's sad when someone dies and then you move on to the next thing. Not a valid reason to finger-wag this poor dead kid. Can’t judge people who make shitty decisions with life altering consequences but we can judge the “type” of people who develop PTSD. Check The peas are indeed an interesting bunch Some people aren't as affected as others, they like to choose jobs with a high adrenaline factor, I am one of those people, and thinking I was judging anyone is quite a stretch. Just the facts, ma'am. Anything more was added by someone else.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,314
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on May 18, 2020 16:03:50 GMT
I completely agree with cakediva about the waste of resources for rescue & recovery for incidents that are caused due to NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES! Those people should pay for the expenses due to their lack of reading. Can you imagine all the resources and money saved just on highway accidents alone???. All those people who can't read speed limit signs. Even 5 miles above the posted speed limit, you skid and wreck. Too bad so sad you didn't follow the rules. I mean how do you determine who deserves resources and who doesn't as far as rule breakers.
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Post by sasha on May 18, 2020 19:35:47 GMT
I am sympathetic to people who make bad decisions, particularly young people who make bad decisions. I will say, I grew up in an area with a ton of irrigation canals, and every year, there was a huge public campaign to remind people not to swim in the canals. Every year, people did, and every year, people drowned. My dad worked at the irrigation district, and I will say, it was obviously hardest on the families of people who lost relatives, but it was also hard on the people who had to do the rescue and recovery work, particularly since the bulk of people who drowned were young. Exactly. Being an adrenaline junkie doesn't mean you are impervious to having PTSD from rescues.
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Post by Zee on May 18, 2020 19:37:44 GMT
I am sympathetic to people who make bad decisions, particularly young people who make bad decisions. I will say, I grew up in an area with a ton of irrigation canals, and every year, there was a huge public campaign to remind people not to swim in the canals. Every year, people did, and every year, people drowned. My dad worked at the irrigation district, and I will say, it was obviously hardest on the families of people who lost relatives, but it was also hard on the people who had to do the rescue and recovery work, particularly since the bulk of people who drowned were young. Exactly. Being an adrenaline junkie doesn't mean you are impervious to having PTSD from rescues. But you're probably less likely, which is all I said, so you can drop it now. It wasn't a personal attack on anyone, unlike this entire OP.
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Post by freecharlie on May 18, 2020 20:16:49 GMT
This doesn't feel like an entitled 'rules don't apply to me' type situation Why not? If it was posted that the area was closed? It is similar to someone who goes out on ice when it clearly states "Ice Unsafe" Someone's child died - for whatever reason - and you OUT LOUD said, effectively, that he deserved it? No, she said it was a waste of resources to have to have a recovery which it is. Had he followed the It’s not about the waste of ‘resources’ it’s about other people’s LIVES. Lives are more than ‘resources’ The people going to Rescue the person or recover the body will be risking their LIVES! It’s like the morons who go surfing during a hurricane. You know it’s coming, you know that your not supposed to but omg the waves! Well asshat what if we say ‘we’ ( first responder we ) are not going to race out to help you if you have a problem. You know the hurricane is coming, you know the weather will put people in danger, but you don’t care, your thrill is more important. It’s not like something suddenly happened Without a lot of warning, like maybe a lightening strike or an avalanche or a fire. Sometimes those have warning or can be prevented sometimes they can’t be. But you know damn well that the ocean during a hurricane is dangerous. You know better, there’s little to no excuse to put peoples lives at risk. It is not the money or things used during the rescue or recovery that is the issue it is the LIVES that will be riske YES!!! Or those who go into the back country and trigger an avalanche. People now had/have to enter unsafe water to recover the man's body. The sentiment is way harsh. Not sure where OP made her comment She made it here because she knew not to say it there. It is like if someone drinks, drives, and dies. It sucks for the person who drank and drove. It sucks worse for that person's family. It sucks for the first responders. I'm still going to say that the person should not have been drinking and driving. I am not going to say it to the person's friends or family and I certainly wouldn't post on a post on fb where they could see it, but it doesn't mean that I don't say it out loud or type it here.
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Post by sasha on May 18, 2020 21:11:51 GMT
This doesn't feel like an entitled 'rules don't apply to me' type situation Why not? If it was posted that the area was closed? It is similar to someone who goes out on ice when it clearly states "Ice Unsafe" Someone's child died - for whatever reason - and you OUT LOUD said, effectively, that he deserved it? No, she said it was a waste of resources to have to have a recovery which it is. Had he followed the It’s not about the waste of ‘resources’ it’s about other people’s LIVES. Lives are more than ‘resources’ The people going to Rescue the person or recover the body will be risking their LIVES! It’s like the morons who go surfing during a hurricane. You know it’s coming, you know that your not supposed to but omg the waves! Well asshat what if we say ‘we’ ( first responder we ) are not going to race out to help you if you have a problem. You know the hurricane is coming, you know the weather will put people in danger, but you don’t care, your thrill is more important. It’s not like something suddenly happened Without a lot of warning, like maybe a lightening strike or an avalanche or a fire. Sometimes those have warning or can be prevented sometimes they can’t be. But you know damn well that the ocean during a hurricane is dangerous. You know better, there’s little to no excuse to put peoples lives at risk. It is not the money or things used during the rescue or recovery that is the issue it is the LIVES that will be riske YES!!! Or those who go into the back country and trigger an avalanche. People now had/have to enter unsafe water to recover the man's body. The sentiment is way harsh. Not sure where OP made her comment She made it here because she knew not to say it there.
It is like if someone drinks, drives, and dies. It sucks for the person who drank and drove. It sucks worse for that person's family. It sucks for the first responders. I'm still going to say that the person should not have been drinking and driving. I am not going to say it to the person's friends or family and I certainly wouldn't post on a post on fb where they could see it, but it doesn't mean that I don't say it out loud or type it here. I don't disagree with her, I think the way she said it sounded very harsh and that's why people reacted the way they do. This might have gone a different way if she had said, "I'm truly saddened that a 20 year-old drowned and ignored the no swimming/closed guidelines putting rescuers at risk and now one family has lost their son..."
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Post by sasha on May 18, 2020 21:16:57 GMT
Exactly. Being an adrenaline junkie doesn't mean you are impervious to having PTSD from rescues. But you're probably less likely, which is all I said, so you can drop it now. It wasn't a personal attack on anyone, unlike this entire OP. Thanks. I didn't think your comment was a personal attack on rescuers. I just didn't understand at first "most people in those type of jobs aren't the type to develop PTSD from rescuing a body." I'm sure rescuing a 20 year-old who needlessly died is a tough thing for rescuers. They probably have some anger as well about rules not being followed.
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Post by sasha on May 18, 2020 21:23:01 GMT
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,387
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on May 18, 2020 21:31:42 GMT
I'm just coming back to give a virtual "hug" to the OP. We're doing a little piling on maybe and generally she's a good Pea. We all say things in ways we wish we hadn't later. Me for sure! There is a verse in Psalms that says "Set a guard O Lord over my mouth; keep watch over the door of my lips." I pray that constantly because I NEED it! Well said. I like you, cakediva . I don't agree with what you said in the original post. That said, I won't condemn you or pile on you for saying it, because Lord knows, I have been guilty of saying things in a ridiculous way on this board, and especially the original one, more than a time or two, and I know what it feels like to be piled on for it. It's not fun. TThe kid did a dumb thing. We'll never know why he made the choices he did. I suspect it wasn't as simple as 'the rules don't apply to me.' Heck, even some of these folks who refuse to wear masks right now, or who are acting like COVID is being overblown... I think in a lot of cases, their behaviour is bravado to help the cope with something that is so beyond their control. here but by the grace of God go I. A little gentleness & compassion goes a long way.
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Post by gar on May 18, 2020 21:47:17 GMT
Why not? If it was posted that the area was closed? It is similar to someone who goes out on ice when it clearly states "Ice Unsafe" It feel more like a bad decision (for reasons we know about in young men particularly) rather than an entitlement issue.
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Post by freecharlie on May 18, 2020 21:48:58 GMT
Why not? If it was posted that the area was closed? It is similar to someone who goes out on ice when it clearly states "Ice Unsafe" It feel more like a bad decision (for reasons we know about in young men particularly) rather than an entitlement issue. I can agree with that. Like, rules don't apply to me because I am young and invincible and I'll be fine rather than, rules don't apply to me because you can't tell me what to do?
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Post by gar on May 18, 2020 21:50:47 GMT
Like, rules don't apply to me Or 'I don't ned to follow advice because I'm invincible/young/strong/fit' etc etc
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