moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,276 
Location: Western Illinois
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Jun 16, 2020 17:56:31 GMT
If you have not read the article zingermack linked above, I really suggest you do. It’s long but very thought-provoking, and points out how deeply engrained so much stuff is. It makes you think about some serious steps that may need to be taken before real change happens. And how hard it’s going to be to change the mindset of too many cops.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 18:40:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 18:08:10 GMT
Another thing that I think would really help police officers is if they did rotations during their training like a medical intern does. They could spend a few days shadowing a public defender, a social worker, an emergency room doctor, a school principal, etc. I think it would help those future officers to see how other professionals handle stressful situations. I'm sure those other professionals could share a lot of stories about times police officers handled situations well and times they have made situations worse. I also think it would help the future officers to see how everyone in the system is working towards the same goal and how police officers best fill their role. I think it's easy for members of any profession to fall into an "us" v. "them" mentality, but when you are a police officer putting your life on the line day in and day out, I think you would be especially vulnerable to that type of mentality. I think it would be very helpful if future officers understood that there were other professionals out there who understood the pressure they were under and would be available to offer some support and advice from a different perspective. And that would work both ways-the other professionals could probably learn a lot from the police officers they help mentor. They want the officers to do this and that but they don't want them to pull overtime. This year the cost of living raises are gone because of the overtime they had to shell out for the protests and for the next 365 days. 365 days that how long they have a permit for and they have to be on call which means paid. Here we have alot of outside agenices teach training, The ADA teaches law review, a doctor teaches triage, an ex miltary teaches OSB, a mental health group teaches mental health, dealing with mental diease and several others. We have several doctors on staff that offer mental health and care, no going through EAP, you go make an appointment and go. No notifying command and no. O-pays. I say bring in more outside teachers, they would welcome it. Ladies keep the disscussion going, thanks for being civil. This is how we should be discussing. . I think that's the idea of 'defund the police' - stop spending so much money on making the police look like robo-soldiers and spend that money in ways that do more prevention and good training. |
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Post by hop2 on Jun 16, 2020 18:15:09 GMT
No one from the trainee in the academy all the way up to the police commissioner should be there with out a thorough psychiatric evaluation.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 18:40:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 18:41:41 GMT
No one from the trainee in the academy all the way up to the police commissioner should be there with out a thorough psychiatric evaluation. That too. People who hold our lives in their hands: pilots, doctors, law enforcement - need to have the highest level of training and scrutiny and the lowest level of tolerance for mistakes. |
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 4,053
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Post by Olan on Jun 16, 2020 18:52:53 GMT
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Post by malibou on Jun 16, 2020 19:04:05 GMT
Thank for the recommendation. I've read other books by him and will definitely pick this one up. You won’t regret it - and if you like audio books, this is a good candidate for audiobook. He includes interviews, music and audio between Sandra Bland and the police, as well as his subsequent interview. It’s all about what is involved in talking to strangers and how we approach each other. I don’t want to spoil anything - so good. But he also covers how policing changed in the 90s and how those changes were (mis)handled. Fascinating. I will definitely get the audible. Dh really likes him as well, so maybe we will !listen together. 😊 |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 16, 2020 19:36:49 GMT
in the "enlightened" bay area.. the big article in the front section today was a report on a local police agency.. vallejo.. they have killed several black men for little reason in the last few years.. the report found the agency out of date on training, a high disregard for authority, a feeling of superiority.. basically an old boys club of white guys. there was a long long list of corrections needed. this town is majority minority.. and a lower income place in the expensive bay area. part of the problem is all these small police dept. who don't have the budget for modern staffing, training and so on. there was a letter to the editor from a lawyer who suggested that the police be required to go through a 4 year academy.. so they really know the law and are well trained. Morning, Hi. I know everyone has suggestions and I'm not BEING SNARKY, thank you for this post. If we go by the letter to the editor and require a 4 year acadmey, during those 4 years who's on the streets? Most agenices are under staffed as it is right now. Think about it, maybe 100 LEO's a shift for a county of 300,000. I can't tell you how many LEO'S were on the fence about early retirement before but with was it happening are putting in their papers. This is going to be a HUGE issue, we are losing experience, knowledge and common sense and will be left with young inexperienced LEO with no experienced trainers. Just a question, what addtional training would be suggested? ...to all that are about to pounce try to be civil. I think I’d rather take my chances of properly vetted and trained officers (even if it takes 4 years) vs what we see now. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 16, 2020 19:38:25 GMT
in the "enlightened" bay area.. the big article in the front section today was a report on a local police agency.. vallejo.. they have killed several black men for little reason in the last few years.. the report found the agency out of date on training, a high disregard for authority, a feeling of superiority.. basically an old boys club of white guys. there was a long long list of corrections needed. this town is majority minority.. and a lower income place in the expensive bay area. part of the problem is all these small police dept. who don't have the budget for modern staffing, training and so on. there was a letter to the editor from a lawyer who suggested that the police be required to go through a 4 year academy.. so they really know the law and are well trained. Morning, Hi. I know everyone has suggestions and I'm not BEING SNARKY, thank you for this post. If we go by the letter to the editor and require a 4 year acadmey, during those 4 years who's on the streets? Most agenices are under staffed as it is right now. Think about it, maybe 100 LEO's a shift for a county of 300,000. I can't tell you how many LEO'S were on the fence about early retirement before but with was it happening are putting in their papers. This is going to be a HUGE issue, we are losing experience, knowledge and common sense and will be left with young inexperienced LEO with no experienced trainers. Just a question, what addtional training would be suggested? ...to all that are about to pounce try to be civil. And for starters, police unions need to be eliminated. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 16, 2020 19:41:06 GMT
Another thing that I think would really help police officers is if they did rotations during their training like a medical intern does. They could spend a few days shadowing a public defender, a social worker, an emergency room doctor, a school principal, etc. I think it would help those future officers to see how other professionals handle stressful situations. I'm sure those other professionals could share a lot of stories about times police officers handled situations well and times they have made situations worse. I also think it would help the future officers to see how everyone in the system is working towards the same goal and how police officers best fill their role. I think it's easy for members of any profession to fall into an "us" v. "them" mentality, but when you are a police officer putting your life on the line day in and day out, I think you would be especially vulnerable to that type of mentality. I think it would be very helpful if future officers understood that there were other professionals out there who understood the pressure they were under and would be available to offer some support and advice from a different perspective. And that would work both ways-the other professionals could probably learn a lot from the police officers they help mentor. Excellent thoughts!!! |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 16, 2020 19:57:13 GMT
I think it is shocking how little training most police officers receive. I read somewhere that the average police academy is 21 weeks. That sounds woefully inadequate to me. Hi, That's not totally accurate. Some departments have a 21 week academy. But then the majority also add a year in FTO, which is you ride with a training officer who evaluates, educates and corrects. Here our "Academy" BLET is 6 months 60-80 hours a week, 80% of our sworn LEO's have a college degree and have worked as DO'S for a couple of years before BLET(they've worked the jails). This is all in addition to the addtional hours upon hours of required training(in-service)ongoing training,DOJ, OJJ, De-Escaltion, Law Updates, Policy updates, Federal, State, local training, Firearms and on and on and on. Husband has been an FTO for years and has sent many back from the road. If they aren't fit, there is no way he will sign off on putting someone on the road. Reform not only needs to happen with hiring but also training standards. The training officers that are hard asses are the ones you want. The ones who can say nope, no your not fit to do this. Your last sentences on training g officers... Where are they? This truly is a systemic failure by many police forces. George Floyd’s murderer was sent back to to his job every time after what—18 instances of questionable violence? And no consequence to him?  And an aside—-no snark or meanness here —I get that you want to defend and sing the praises of how awesome your DH is here, that’s great, however, I’d like to suggest that you instead actually LISTEN and address the topic of the systemic police violence, the failures of the departments, the cop sticking up for cop when cop does wrong, police unions defending the violence and unnecessary aggression—the stuff we are all witnessing now, the stuff black people worry and are fearful for every.single.day. that we as white people take for granted because we don’t experience it. No amount of of your DH’s awesomeness is going to erase what has and is happening RIGHT NOW. (And I don’t mean this as something mean, I’m just saying it’s not the place) I WANT to support the LEO (I’m from a LEO family) but it gets harder and harder everyday. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 17, 2020 13:08:20 GMT
 It might not be a bad idea to look at professions such as nurses, doctors, etc., and grab some of their requirements for holding their jobs. Shoot, even CEO’s, managers, etc., of big “office” type companies have more stringent rules! Look at the most recent “Karen” video the hubby filming her racist rant in the guy chalking BLM on his own property was fired from his job! |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 18:40:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 14:51:46 GMT
Hi, That's not totally accurate. Some departments have a 21 week academy. But then the majority also add a year in FTO, which is you ride with a training officer who evaluates, educates and corrects. Here our "Academy" BLET is 6 months 60-80 hours a week, 80% of our sworn LEO's have a college degree and have worked as DO'S for a couple of years before BLET(they've worked the jails). This is all in addition to the addtional hours upon hours of required training(in-service)ongoing training,DOJ, OJJ, De-Escaltion, Law Updates, Policy updates, Federal, State, local training, Firearms and on and on and on. Husband has been an FTO for years and has sent many back from the road. If they aren't fit, there is no way he will sign off on putting someone on the road. Reform not only needs to happen with hiring but also training standards. The training officers that are hard asses are the ones you want. The ones who can say nope, no your not fit to do this. Your last sentences on training g officers... Where are they? This truly is a systemic failure by many police forces. George Floyd’s murderer was sent back to to his job every time after what—18 instances of questionable violence? And no consequence to him? And an aside—-no snark or meanness here —I get that you want to defend and sing the praises of how awesome your DH is here, that’s great, however, I’d like to suggest that you instead actually LISTEN and address the topic of the systemic police violence, the failures of the departments, the cop sticking up for cop when cop does wrong, police unions defending the violence and unnecessary aggression—the stuff we are all witnessing now, the stuff black people worry and are fearful for every.single.day. that we as white people take for granted because we don’t experience it. No amount of of your DH’s awesomeness is going to erase what has and is happening RIGHT NOW. (And I don’t mean this as something mean, I’m just saying it’s not the place) I WANT to support the LEO (I’m from a LEO family) but it gets harder and harder everyday. Ditto. Seriously. Sticking your fingers in your ears and insisting that there's nothing wrong with your DH (or child) that is a LEO or their department makes you part of the problem. You're NOT listening. And I'm also from a LEO/first responder family (three current and former police, an EMT, and three former and current firefighters plus a handful of nurses). |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 18, 2020 15:51:59 GMT
Your last sentences on training g officers... Where are they? This truly is a systemic failure by many police forces. George Floyd’s murderer was sent back to to his job every time after what—18 instances of questionable violence? And no consequence to him? And an aside—-no snark or meanness here —I get that you want to defend and sing the praises of how awesome your DH is here, that’s great, however, I’d like to suggest that you instead actually LISTEN and address the topic of the systemic police violence, the failures of the departments, the cop sticking up for cop when cop does wrong, police unions defending the violence and unnecessary aggression—the stuff we are all witnessing now, the stuff black people worry and are fearful for every.single.day. that we as white people take for granted because we don’t experience it. No amount of of your DH’s awesomeness is going to erase what has and is happening RIGHT NOW. (And I don’t mean this as something mean, I’m just saying it’s not the place) I WANT to support the LEO (I’m from a LEO family) but it gets harder and harder everyday. Ditto. Seriously. Sticking your fingers in your ears and insisting that there's nothing wrong with your DH (or child) that is a LEO or their department makes you part of the problem. You're NOT listening. And I'm also from a LEO/first responder family (three current and former police, an EMT, and three former and current firefighters plus a handful of nurses). Yes. |
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onecolanut
Full Member
Posts: 118
Nov 22, 2015 19:35:03 GMT
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Post by onecolanut on Jun 19, 2020 16:03:20 GMT
The assailant was not social distancing.
Then resisted. Tough shit.
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smginaz Suzy
Pearl Clutcher
Je suis desole.
Posts: 2,606
Jun 26, 2014 17:27:30 GMT
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Post by smginaz Suzy on Jun 19, 2020 16:40:32 GMT
The assailant was not social distancing. Then resisted. Tough shit. Are you lost? |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 19, 2020 16:46:20 GMT
The assailant was not social distancing. Then resisted. Tough shit. Are you lost? Given this posters history, I think they are saying that he deserved to die.    |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jun 19, 2020 17:29:46 GMT
in the "enlightened" bay area.. the big article in the front section today was a report on a local police agency.. vallejo.. they have killed several black men for little reason in the last few years.. the report found the agency out of date on training, a high disregard for authority, a feeling of superiority.. basically an old boys club of white guys. there was a long long list of corrections needed. this town is majority minority.. and a lower income place in the expensive bay area. part of the problem is all these small police dept. who don't have the budget for modern staffing, training and so on. there was a letter to the editor from a lawyer who suggested that the police be required to go through a 4 year academy.. so they really know the law and are well trained. Morning, Hi. I know everyone has suggestions and I'm not BEING SNARKY, thank you for this post. If we go by the letter to the editor and require a 4 year acadmey, during those 4 years who's on the streets? Most agenices are under staffed as it is right now. Think about it, maybe 100 LEO's a shift for a county of 300,000. I can't tell you how many LEO'S were on the fence about early retirement before but with was it happening are putting in their papers. This is going to be a HUGE issue, we are losing experience, knowledge and common sense and will be left with young inexperienced LEO with no experienced trainers. Just a question, what addtional training would be suggested? ...to all that are about to pounce try to be civil. Look, we get it. Your entire identity hinges on your husband's chosen profession. Your posts are peppered with references that seem to imply that you are also part of law enforcement, rather than the spouse of an officer. "Our department", "we do x", etc. The department your husband works for is no more yours than than the company any civilian's husband works for. I would never talk about what "we" do in my husband's office that I don't work in. In a profession that is supposedly 99.99999 percent "good apples", the "good apples" are cowards who protect the supposed bad apples. I'm sure you'll say your husband is one of the good ones. Well. Then you and he should spend more time cleaning up "your" profession and less time defending the tremendous damage that is created by the supposedly rare bad apples. |
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