MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 30, 2020 21:31:21 GMT
...and wearing face masks.
Then I read this:
Are you shitting me?
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Post by christine58 on Jun 30, 2020 21:32:46 GMT
...and wearing face masks.
Then I read this:
Are you shitting me? It's the same other places too...can't be asked It's not just NYC
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 30, 2020 21:34:35 GMT
I guess this means "the corona" isn't all that serious then. Holy schnikes! How do they expect the public to take any of this seriously if they don't?
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 30, 2020 21:39:45 GMT
Our state is absolutely asking as there was a press release that an individual attending a protest had tested positive so please go and get tested.
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Post by myshelly on Jun 30, 2020 21:40:28 GMT
And then we’re also going to constantly publish articles with titles like “Protests not linked to rise in covid cases”
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jun 30, 2020 21:48:33 GMT
I can see both sides of this. On one hand, are they asking everyone where they could have been exposed? Linking protests to increases in the virus is another way that protestors can be looked down on and blamed for the situation (without other groups taking responsibility for their role in increasing cases).
On the other hand, it could be helpful to let people know what types of activities have led to increases in cases so that those activities (or similar) can be avoided.
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Post by pierkiss on Jun 30, 2020 21:50:13 GMT
It seems incredibly stupid to not ask that question and not include protests in Covid stats.
I want to know how protestors did or did not contribute to the spread of the virus.
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Post by megop on Jun 30, 2020 21:56:45 GMT
The issue is contact tracer shortage. There aren't enough bodies to meaningfully contact trace a rally or protest. Mass media is only option for people to learn and hopefully protect themselves.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Jun 30, 2020 21:57:55 GMT
It seems likely that it's a place for spread I thought that LAPD that worked during the protests had a lot of covid cases. It just makes sense to ask and assess the risk. Every one knew it was a risk but they felt it was worth it. Hoping that there aren't a lot of cases from it but there have to be some. Many weren't masked here and we had protests before the race protests about opening up and wearing masks so many of them weren't masked. Yes it was outside but many were very close together.
many people traveled for the protests and weren't local so if they are asking in the big cities many people could be missed in the studies.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 30, 2020 22:02:04 GMT
I disagree with them not asking. It gives the naysayers another weapon in their arsenal and we need to know where it is spreading from.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jun 30, 2020 22:04:50 GMT
I'm also not sure what the OP's thought process is between not asking about protests so therefore the virus must not be a big deal? That makes no sense to me. One does not equate to the other.
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Post by tracyarts on Jun 30, 2020 22:07:43 GMT
It matters. It's an important factor in the pandemic that we need to investigate fully then be completely honest about. I see SO many people using the protests as fuel to their argument that outdoor crowd events should be allowed. "If thousands of people can protest together, we can have concerts, parades, sporting events, festivals, etc...". Also SO many posts blaming the protests on the spikes in positive test numbers. It's a very charged topic. If it turns out that the protests didn't contribute significantly to the rise in positive cases, that needs to be taken into consideration when deciding what events and activities are safer and should be allowed in various communities. But if it turns out that the protests did contribute significantly to it, that affects things such as freedom to assemble and protest and we have to figure out how to manage the risks while preserving as much freedom as possible. But either way, it's important to learn what, if any, affect these events had. It seems incredibly stupid to not ask that question and not include protests in Covid stats. I want to know how protestors did or did not contribute to the spread of the virus.
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Post by hop2 on Jun 30, 2020 22:10:01 GMT
Oh gee I thought we weren’t supposed to use that terminology It’s against Semantics pea code or something and yes we are stopping our opening up over it but not ‘locking down’ again yet. Give us 2 weeks after the holiday and all of the in person graduations that are allowed 7/6 Then the crap will hit the fan again
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Post by gar on Jun 30, 2020 22:12:32 GMT
It matters. It's an important factor in the pandemic that we need to investigate fully then be completely honest about. I see SO many people using the protests as fuel to their argument that outdoor crowd events should be allowed. "If thousands of people can protest together, we can have concerts, parades, sporting events, festivals, etc...". On this board I believe.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,973
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Jun 30, 2020 22:15:29 GMT
Our health department is asking if people attended a protest. So far there have only been a handful. It's coming from the bars and the beaches.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 30, 2020 22:17:24 GMT
Linking protests to increases in the virus is another way that protestors can be looked down on and blamed for the situation (without other groups taking responsibility for their role in increasing cases). It's another way they can be looked down on? Well then, by all means, let's not hurt their feelings OR track where they've been so no meaningful contact tracing can be done. We don't want to make them conspicuous. If there are spikes in cities with protests then yes, they are partly to blame and it is data that needs to be accounted for. Period.
My point is either COVID-19 is serious enough to close our businesses/schools/states thereby wrecking the economy or it isn't. By not tracking a significant part of the population, by not even allowing tracers to ask the question, how does that protect the actual vulnerable people? And if it's NOT so serious that they have to make everyone accountable for their actions then WHAT THE HELL ARE WE SHUTTING EVERYTHING DOWN FOR? IT. MAKES. NO. SENSE. You can't pick and choose - it's an effing pandemic! All or nothing, right? At least that's what we're supposed to believe...enough to let our private businesses go under, not earn an income because your job has "shut due to COVID-19", but be patient!
I'm also not sure what the OP's thought process is between not asking about protests so therefore the virus must not be a big deal? That makes no sense to me. One does not equate to the other. OP'S thought process:
Either COVID-19 is extremely serious (hence shutting down everything, face mask mandates etc) or it's not and we don't need to do any shutting down.
Either we're ALL accountable or none of us are. You cannot tell someone, "well ya, you need to close your store to prevent the spread" while there's 200 people protesting outside unrestrained.
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Post by Clair on Jun 30, 2020 22:18:03 GMT
I'm also not sure what the OP's thought process is between not asking about protests so therefore the virus must not be a big deal? That makes no sense to me. One does not equate to the other. Not the OP but I believe she’s pointing out the hypocrisy - why the lockdown when we ignore the spread/possible spread that the protests may have caused. If we want this to end - we don’t get to pick and choose how we trace this. I support the protests and I support the sheltering at home if needed but we are foolish think that we can just ignore the possible spread because of the protests or any other large gathering.
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Gennifer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,991
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on Jun 30, 2020 22:20:24 GMT
I posted a link here a few days ago. In my state, according to the article, they ARE being asked, and there were something like 5 cases linked to the protests.
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CeeScraps
Pearl Clutcher
~~occupied entertaining my brain~~
Posts: 3,825
Jun 26, 2014 12:56:40 GMT
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Post by CeeScraps on Jun 30, 2020 22:22:34 GMT
Our state is absolutely asking as there was a press release that an individual attending a protest had tested positive so please go and get tested. This does not mean they are asking them if they were protesting. They are asking the individuals that protested to go and get tested. Once they get there, my understanding is they cannot ask if they were protesting.
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Post by hopemax on Jun 30, 2020 22:26:48 GMT
What was the number one rule for differential diagnosis on House? People lie. In this case, if people know that question will be asked, many will choose to not get tested at all. Which is a worse outcome than not knowing where they got it, because it leads to community spread. They do ask "where have you been." www.thecity.nyc/coronavirus/2020/6/14/21290963/nyc-covid-19-trackers-skipping-floyd-protest-questions-even-amid-fears-of-new-wave"Dr. S. Patrick Kachur, a professor at Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health and a former official at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said contact trackers face a balancing act: trying to obtain useful information about an infected person’s contacts without alienating them with overly intrusive questions. Asking someone if they’d been at a protest could wind up discouraging them from being candid in their answers, he noted. “I think the logic has to do with the fact that contact tracing requires a strong level of trust between the interviewer and the person they’re talking to,” he said. “It’s really important to have a good rapport and treat people with ease. It’s important to not ask questions that will impede your ability to do the best job you can.” " The question is what would you rather know more: A. Who HAS the virus, and stop transmission chains that will develop in the future. B. Where they might have gotten it, so they can find who ALSO might have the virus. The Group B people can be found, by those people heading the advice of the governors and mayors, that if you protest, you should get tested. Group B can become Group A through a general warning. If Group A doesn't show up, we don't know who is in Group C. Who gets it next.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,973
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Jun 30, 2020 22:29:13 GMT
Surge in Coronavirus not linked to protests in PittsburghI can't speak to how other places are doing contact tracing but as I said, our Health Dept. is asking about protests. So far it's in the single digits even though there have been protests in the city every single day. We found out today that there is an outbreak among teens and young adults in my small town and it's entirely related to bars, parties and going to the beach.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jun 30, 2020 22:30:52 GMT
I don't know what the reasons are for them not asking in some places. Maybe others can chime in on that. But I'm still not understanding the hysteria? We all know that the protests had risk, right? If they come out and say that a lot of people got the virus from protests, the naysayers will just say, "See! I am fine. I didn't go to a protest" and they will continue to do what they want. So, while it would be helpful to know If people got it at the protests (or possibly did), I don't think it would help us to get people on board with thinking this is serious. I also don't see how not asking that questions leads you to say that must mean that the virus really isn't that dangerous.
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Post by megop on Jun 30, 2020 22:32:15 GMT
I disagree with them not asking. It gives the naysayers another weapon in their arsenal and we need to know where it is spreading from. Without meaningful contact tracing, you won't know. Example: Caregivers caring for a COVID positive patient in full PPE tests positive within a community of hot zone spread. Did caregiver get it during caring for the patient? Or when they went to a grocery store? I get what you are saying, but there really is no way to pinpoint transmission in such fashion beyond "protester in XYZ" tests positive." Anecdotal evidence as unless you share where this person was point, by point, by point so those who were within six feet could remember and identify their risk. This is why it comes down to, wear the mask, social distance, wash hands, etc. etc. because it IS your best line of defense.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 30, 2020 22:41:04 GMT
I don't know what the reasons are for them not asking in some places. Maybe others can chime in on that. But I'm still not understanding the hysteria? We all know that the protests had risk, right? If they come out and say that a lot of people got the virus from protests, the naysayers will just say, "See! I am fine. I didn't go to a protest" and they will continue to do what they want. So, while it would be helpful to know If people got it at the protests (or possibly did), I don't think it would help us to get people on board with thinking this is serious. I also don't see how not asking that questions leads you to say that must mean that the virus really isn't that dangerous. tracyarts says it better than I can: It matters. It's an important factor in the pandemic that we need to investigate fully then be completely honest about. I see SO many people using the protests as fuel to their argument that outdoor crowd events should be allowed. "If thousands of people can protest together, we can have concerts, parades, sporting events, festivals, etc...". Also SO many posts blaming the protests on the spikes in positive test numbers. It's a very charged topic. If it turns out that the protests didn't contribute significantly to the rise in positive cases, that needs to be taken into consideration when deciding what events and activities are safer and should be allowed in various communities. But if it turns out that the protests did contribute significantly to it, that affects things such as freedom to assemble and protest and we have to figure out how to manage the risks while preserving as much freedom as possible. But either way, it's important to learn what, if any, affect these events had.
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Post by Merge on Jun 30, 2020 22:44:18 GMT
Curious if they’re proactively asking about any type of gathering. Are they specifically asking people if they’ve been to church? To a particular restaurant? To a specific bar or club? Or are they just asking people who test positive where they’ve been around other people, and including all answers including protests.
If they’re not asking about any specific venue, I don’t see why it’s some nefarious plot if they don’t ask about protests. While it’s hard to say for certain where any one person got the virus, it’s my understanding that the way contact tracing works is that you compile all the answers and look for similarities. If 18 people were at X bar on X date and they all test positive for COVID, it’s reasonable to suspect that they might have gotten it at the bar. If 20 people were at a protest, they might have gotten it from the protest.
Another way to say this: asking where people have been as yes/no questions is limiting by definition. You couldn’t possibly name all the places where someone might have gone. What you can do is say, where were you on the 1st and the 2nd? And accurately compile the answers.
I think it’s a big stretch to see nefarious intent here.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 30, 2020 22:48:25 GMT
I think it’s a big stretch to see nefarious intent here. I don't think there's any nefarious intent, just pure, unadulterated stupidity. Everyone should be accountable. Everyone.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 30, 2020 23:00:56 GMT
Curious if they’re proactively asking about any type of gathering. Are they specifically asking people if they’ve been to church? To a particular restaurant? To a specific bar or club? Or are they just asking people who test positive where they’ve been around other people, and including all answers including protests. If they’re not asking about any specific venue, I don’t see why it’s some nefarious plot if they don’t ask about protests. While it’s hard to say for certain where any one person got the virus, it’s my understanding that the way contact tracing works is that you compile all the answers and look for similarities. If 18 people were at X bar on X date and they all test positive for COVID, it’s reasonable to suspect that they might have gotten it at the bar. If 20 people were at a protest, they might have gotten it from the protest. Another way to say this: asking where people have been as yes/no questions is limiting by definition. You couldn’t possibly name all the places where someone might have gone. What you can do is say, where were you on the 1st and the 2nd? And accurately compile the answers. I think it’s a big stretch to see nefarious intent here. I haven't a clue if things are consistent between counties, let alone states. I do know that MY county is absolutely asking about specific venues. In cases where it is possible to specifically identify individuals (ie I work at this company and these 10 co-workers work in the same office) they contact those individuals to let them know of potential exposure and request testing and/or 14 day quarantine. In cases where the venue is broad enough that they can not specifically identify individuals the venue itself is released. A clerk at this supermarket tested positive and worked on June 13th and 15th and had potential contact with customers, if you were exposed get tested). Our county public health specifically mentioned a potential exposure at a protest - giving the date and location and asked anyone potentially exposed to get tested. Now we're a small county, so there may be things we are able to do that isn't possible in a large city.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 30, 2020 23:02:26 GMT
Oh gee I thought we weren’t supposed to use that terminology It’s against Semantics pea code or something and yes we are stopping our opening up over it but not ‘locking down’ again yet. Give us 2 weeks after the holiday and all of the in person graduations that are allowed 7/6 Then the crap will hit the fan again I was wondering the same thing. Or does it just depend on which pea uses the terminology?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 30, 2020 23:06:38 GMT
And another thing....
I have have yet to see/hear that Democrats/liberals are trying to “hide” results of positive COVID testing because of protests.
I hear/read a lot of republicans are saying that the Democrats don’t want it reported, but nothing that anyone is trying to hide it...
The only suppression of COVID numbers I’ve been seeing are those in Florida, Georgia and Texas, where their republican leaders are suppressing the numbers from being reported in accurately.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jun 30, 2020 23:07:50 GMT
I don't know what the reasons are for them not asking in some places. Maybe others can chime in on that. But I'm still not understanding the hysteria? We all know that the protests had risk, right? If they come out and say that a lot of people got the virus from protests, the naysayers will just say, "See! I am fine. I didn't go to a protest" and they will continue to do what they want. So, while it would be helpful to know If people got it at the protests (or possibly did), I don't think it would help us to get people on board with thinking this is serious. I also don't see how not asking that questions leads you to say that must mean that the virus really isn't that dangerous. tracyarts says it better than I can: It matters. It's an important factor in the pandemic that we need to investigate fully then be completely honest about. I see SO many people using the protests as fuel to their argument that outdoor crowd events should be allowed. "If thousands of people can protest together, we can have concerts, parades, sporting events, festivals, etc...". Also SO many posts blaming the protests on the spikes in positive test numbers. It's a very charged topic. If it turns out that the protests didn't contribute significantly to the rise in positive cases, that needs to be taken into consideration when deciding what events and activities are safer and should be allowed in various communities. But if it turns out that the protests did contribute significantly to it, that affects things such as freedom to assemble and protest and we have to figure out how to manage the risks while preserving as much freedom as possible. But either way, it's important to learn what, if any, affect these events had. What tracyarts said makes sense and I agree with it. I still don’t understand what you were saying. Seems to me like you are inferring nefarious intent (to take merge’s term) and I don’t agree with that.
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