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Post by librarylady on Aug 30, 2020 22:26:55 GMT
We are both receiving SS. If it is gone, it becomes a serious, serious threat to our financial stability.
This is from today's Dallas Morning News, business column by Scott Burns.
If you want to eliminate the employment tax, you need a plan to replace it. The president is casually talking about eliminating 36% of all federal revenue, but the tax supports Social Security, which sends checks every month to 69.1 million people. The payroll tax supports Social Security, a program that sends checks every month to 69.1 million retirees, dependents and people who are disabled.
By Scott Burns
6:00 AM on Aug 29, 2020
Honk if you think summer is when things slow down.
Sorry, you’re dreaming.
Just last Sunday, you saw my column about the things affecting whether we should or shouldn’t defer taking Social Security benefits. I wrote it because many trends now suggest it might be better to abandon calm, lucid calculations about longevity.
Instead, the prudent path is looking more like don’t defer — take the money and run.
The notion was confirmed the next day.
That’s when Stephen C. Goss, the chief actuary for Social Security, released a letter providing an analysis of when Social Security would no longer be able to pay benefits if the payroll tax were eliminated.
The last sentence of his letter, a true bottom line, reads:
“We estimate that OASI Trust Fund reserves would become permanently depleted by the middle of calendar year 2023, with no ability to pay OASI benefits thereafter.”
Call it the bald truth. Without the payroll tax, Social Security is kaput.
The chief actuary was responding to a request by four senators, all Democrats. They wanted the actuary to estimate the financial consequences if President Donald Trump were re-elected and made good on an almost offhand promise he made to permanently eliminate the payroll tax. He made the promise while announcing his executive order for payroll tax deferral.
The payroll tax supports Social Security, a program that sends checks every month to 69.1 million retirees, dependents and people who are disabled.
The Washington Post reported Trump’s promise this way on Aug. 8:
“If I’m victorious on November 3rd, I plan to forgive these taxes and make permanent cuts to the payroll tax,” Trump said at a news conference in Bedminster, N.J. “I’m going to make them all permanent.”
Fox Business News reported another detail a few days later on Aug. 12:
“At the end of the year, on the assumption that I win, I’m going to terminate the payroll tax,” Trump said during a press briefing at the White House. “We’ll be paying into Social Security through the general fund.”
The problem here is what’s in the general fund. Nothing. Zilch. It’s an astonishing black hole of deficit.
According to the most recent report from the Treasury, the net budget deficit through the month of July was $2.807 trillion. It would have been larger, $2.837 trillion, but for the slight surplus, $29 billion, in the off budget. The off budget is where Social Security and the payroll tax live. Separate, on its own, Social Security runs a small surplus.
That’s kind of important.
In fiscal 2019, according to the Congressional Budget Office, payroll taxes brought in $1.243 trillion. That’s 36% of all federal revenue in the same period, which was $3.462 trillion.
So think about that. The president is casually talking about eliminating 36% of all federal revenue to give everyone a tax break. As an afterthought, he mentions that Social Security benefits will be paid from the general fund, a place where no money exists.
Eliminate the payroll tax, and you’re talking about a fiscal heart attack. It’s a Treasury heart no longer receiving its life-giving blood:
Cash.
Since its creation, Social Security has been treated as a separate and independent part of the federal government. I think this is some evidence that we once had some wise people in government.
Long ago, our elected representatives saw that Social Security was too important to be put in the same spending hopper as, say, proposals for bridges to nowhere. It was too important to have to battle, year after year, against powerful lobbies that wanted to spend federal revenue on, well, everything we can imagine and a lot we can’t imagine.
Can an argument be made for ending the payroll tax?
Yes, I think so.
It’s the largest tax most Americans pay. It comes out of every dollar of labor earnings — unless you earn more than 94% of workers. It makes debates about the federal income tax silly because the blowhards in Congress — I’m referring to both parties here — never talk about the combined burden of the employment tax and the income tax.
Replacing the payroll tax with a value-added tax, for instance, would broaden the base of the tax and reduce the direct burden on worker paychecks. Think of it as our Social Contract Tax.
We could talk about this a long time.
But the important thing, for a country desperate for a few moments of stability and calm, is that the employment tax doesn’t just end. Any change should start with a plan. The plan starts with an idea for replacement.
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,276
Jun 25, 2014 22:52:46 GMT
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Post by iowgirl on Aug 30, 2020 22:29:41 GMT
The very people around here that ardently support him, will the one's most greatly affected by this.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,294
Location: Colorado
Apr 26, 2017 6:14:47 GMT
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Post by snyder on Aug 30, 2020 22:30:12 GMT
The key here is IF and there is no way they will completely abolish payroll taxes. It is articles like that that keep the public in uproar.
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,276
Jun 25, 2014 22:52:46 GMT
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Post by iowgirl on Aug 30, 2020 22:31:24 GMT
The key here is IF and there is no way they will completely abolish payroll taxes. " I seem to remember they said there was NO WAY Trump would get elected in 2016 also.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Aug 30, 2020 22:38:57 GMT
The key here is IF and there is no way they will completely abolish payroll taxes. It is articles like that that keep the public in uproar. They *should* be in uproar. It’s a big deal. Especially if he wins.
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Post by kernriver on Aug 30, 2020 22:41:26 GMT
The key here is IF and there is no way they will completely abolish payroll taxes. It is articles like that that keep the public in uproar. I wish we had been in an uproar about a possible pandemic. It might have helped. And I think people should be very concerned about this issue.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,294
Location: Colorado
Apr 26, 2017 6:14:47 GMT
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Post by snyder on Aug 30, 2020 22:42:16 GMT
The key here is IF and there is no way they will completely abolish payroll taxes. It is articles like that that keep the public in uproar. They *should* be in uproar. It’s a big deal. Especially if he wins. Even if he wins, they will not abolish payroll taxes.
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Post by kernriver on Aug 30, 2020 22:42:22 GMT
The key here is IF and there is no way they will completely abolish payroll taxes. It is articles like that that keep the public in uproar. They *should* be in uproar. It’s a big deal. Especially if he wins. Please don’t say this. Ever.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,922
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Aug 30, 2020 23:09:18 GMT
Honestly, I think the trump supporters are too stupid to understand what eliminating payroll taxes really means.
Every American, who has paid into social security & expects to withdraw from it, should be scared shitless and most definitely should vote for Biden.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,922
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Aug 30, 2020 23:11:01 GMT
They *should* be in uproar. It’s a big deal. Especially if he wins. Even if he wins, they will not abolish payroll taxes. Are you really this ignorant? THE REPUBLICANS ALREADY SAID THEY WOULD DO IT!
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 30, 2020 23:12:30 GMT
“At the end of the year, on the assumption that I win, I’m going to terminate the payroll tax,” Trump said during a press briefing at the White House. “We’ll be paying into Social Security through the general fund.” He is not an honorable man, he will never fund anything out of the general fund on his own! No different than he will have insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions. No discussions about there being a reasonable costs. I so wish I could find the article/comments I read a long time ago (could be only 4 years ago, seems so long) where someone quoted him as says he would bankrupt the country/treasury and walk away.. Sound familiar? Bankrupt companies and walk away!?!?!
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 30, 2020 23:21:27 GMT
Well not so long ago!! | A Career of Business BankruptciesTrump cultivates a mythology that he has been tremendously successful in business. The reality is that public records show that six times Trump filed Chapter 11 bankruptcies for his companies. Yes, not once, not twice, but six times! And even in cases where Trump was able to avoid bankruptcy, there were many business failures. For example, “Trump defaulted on the debt of his airline, Trump Shuttle, turning it over to U.S. Airways.” The full extent of Trump’s failures in business has been largely hidden by this refusal to release his tax returns. But The New York Times was able to obtain tax information from 1985 to 1994 and these records revealed $1.17 billion in business losses in these 10 years alone.“In fact, year after year, Mr. Trump appears to have lost more money than nearly any other individual American taxpayer,” The Times concluded, comparing his losses to publicly available IRS information. These revelations led to newspaper and magazine headlines like this one: “As a Businessman, Trump Was the Biggest Loser of All.” How was Trump able to stay in business despite many bankruptcies and losing so much money? The answer is that Trump was able to structure his deals so that he was losing other people’s money—that of banks, bond investors, governments and others—more than his own money. Passing Losses to Others (me: remember WE are the others who will be stuck with empty coffers!)In other words, Trump was passing financial losses to those who supported him. Not surprisingly, this led many banks and other financial institutions to stop providing financing to Trump. The principal exception has been Deutsche Bank of Germany: “Over the past two decades, it was the only mainstream financial institution consistently willing to do business with Mr. Trump, who had a history of defaulting on loans. The bank lent him a total of more than $2 billion, about $350 million of which was outstanding when he was sworn in as president.” This is the same bank that was fined $630 million in 2017 by American and British banking regulators in connection with “around $10 billion in suspicious trades being laundered out of Russia.” It’s not just banks that have failed to receive payments due from Trump. Hundreds of small businesses, individual contractors, laborers and other ordinary Americans have alleged that Trump has not paid them. Numerous reports have documented these claims, such as this USA Today story: “Hundreds allege Donald Trump doesn’t pay his bills.” And this Wall Street Journal article, “Donald Trump’s Business Plan Left a Trail of Unpaid Bills.” Then there is Trump University, which Trump shut down after he settled two class-action lawsuits and a civil lawsuit accusing him of cheating thousands of Americans out of millions of dollars through what many called a “sham.” Unfortunately, some of the 7,000 potential beneficiaries of the $25 million lawsuit settlement passed away before receiving any refund, such as Boyce Chair of Springfield, N.J., who lost $34,995 on so-called mentorship program tuition. The bottom line is that just as Trump bankrupted business-after-business and built his fortune by passing debt and losses from his failing enterprises on to others, so too is Trump today bankrupting the country and passing the debt and losses from his failing economic policies on to ordinary Americans and to future generations. Steven Piersanti is a senior editor at Berrett-Koehler Publishers, a leading independent publisher of books that promote positive change at all levels—individual, organizational and societal. Before founding Berrett-Koehler in 1992, he was CEO of Jossey-Bass Publishers. He is seeking collaborators to expand and communicate themes of this article in various ways. ** www.rawstory.com/2019/12/trump-runs-the-country-just-like-he-ran-his-bankrupted-businesses-the-national-debt-is-skyrocketing-while-economic-growth-is-lagging/
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Aug 30, 2020 23:27:39 GMT
They *should* be in uproar. It’s a big deal. Especially if he wins. Please don’t say this. Ever. Unfortunately ... it’s a reality. I learned my lesson last time. I won’t underestimate voters again.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Aug 30, 2020 23:30:12 GMT
They *should* be in uproar. It’s a big deal. Especially if he wins. Even if he wins, they will not abolish payroll taxes. There’s a lot of things I thought they wouldn’t do, that have been done. I’ve been shocked out of both my complacency and concrete faith, in things I was previously both complacent about and had concrete faith in. 🥺
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,294
Location: Colorado
Apr 26, 2017 6:14:47 GMT
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Post by snyder on Aug 30, 2020 23:30:21 GMT
Even if he wins, they will not abolish payroll taxes. Are you really this ignorant? THE REPUBLICANS ALREADY SAID THEY WOULD DO IT! No, I'm not ignorant at all. I consider myself pretty intelligent and level headed. They will reduce, but not eliminate. Anyone that believes they would eliminate ALL payroll taxes are the ignorant ones. I don't care who is in office, eliminating all payroll taxes would be next to impossible to make fly.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 30, 2020 23:35:36 GMT
They *should* be in uproar. It’s a big deal. Especially if he wins. Even if he wins, they will not abolish payroll taxes. How do you know this? No one ever thought 10+ of trumps campaign advisors, administration people would be found guilty of many any crimes—including treason to America and in jail..
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 30, 2020 23:38:48 GMT
Are you really this ignorant? THE REPUBLICANS ALREADY SAID THEY WOULD DO IT! No, I'm not ignorant at all. I consider myself pretty intelligent and level headed. They will reduce, but not eliminate. Anyone that believes they would eliminate ALL payroll taxes are the ignorant ones. I don't care who is in office, eliminating all payroll taxes would be next to impossible to make fly. He’s specifically talking about eliminating SS payroll and funding with a general fund in which is a black hole. The actuary specifically responded to what he said he was going to do and stated that it would be out of $$ by 2023 with no means for funding it. How is that too hard to understand?
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Aug 30, 2020 23:59:51 GMT
Trump cannot get rid of payroll taxes permanently. Only Congress can via legislation. The only authority Trump has with payroll tax is to defer or postpone collection of the tax for a specified period. Those deferred taxes will come due no matter what and Trump has no legal authority to stop that. Please remember that the taxing power is in the legislative branch.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,294
Location: Colorado
Apr 26, 2017 6:14:47 GMT
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Post by snyder on Aug 31, 2020 0:12:35 GMT
No, I'm not ignorant at all. I consider myself pretty intelligent and level headed. They will reduce, but not eliminate. Anyone that believes they would eliminate ALL payroll taxes are the ignorant ones. I don't care who is in office, eliminating all payroll taxes would be next to impossible to make fly. He’s specifically talking about eliminating SS payroll and funding with a general fund in which is a black hole. The actuary specifically responded to what he said he was going to do and stated that it would be out of $$ by 2023 with no means for funding it. How is that too hard to understand? See lizacreates post; she says it well.
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Post by pierkiss on Aug 31, 2020 0:15:18 GMT
Elections have consequences. I hope people wake up and realize this before they blindly vote for him in November. Because from where I sit, a good chunk of his base relies on SS continuing.
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Post by nlwilkins on Aug 31, 2020 0:21:01 GMT
So what about this scenario-- they have to come up with something to answer the critics on how they are not doing away with SS... Your SS taxes instead of coming out of your paycheck could be collected via another means, such as income tax forms where the self employed workers pay their SS contributions. Then they would not be called payroll taxes but still be collected. Thus Trump is then able to add those funds collected to the general fund which would then fulfill his promise and give him access to this money. Shifting money around is the best way to steal it as one hand does not keep track of the other is doing.
The trumpers would then ignore the theft and praise not having to pay SS out their paychecks. Paying it all in one lump sum once a year only brings the subject up once a year and he could plan outrageous things to take their attention off of it each year. Its a sneaky way to do it and not saying that is what he has in mind, but you better believe he will come up with something so as to get his hands on it.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,922
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Aug 31, 2020 0:23:09 GMT
Trump cannot get rid of payroll taxes permanently. Only Congress can via legislation. The only authority Trump has with payroll tax is to defer or postpone collection of the tax for a specified period. Those deferred taxes will come due no matter what and Trump has no legal authority to stop that. Please remember that the taxing power is in the legislative branch. I’m sorry but we no longer have a judicial branch of the government because the administration is so corrupt. If you really believe there will be a legislative branch left if he is re-elected, you’re a fool.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Aug 31, 2020 1:09:40 GMT
Trump cannot get rid of payroll taxes permanently. Only Congress can via legislation. The only authority Trump has with payroll tax is to defer or postpone collection of the tax for a specified period. Those deferred taxes will come due no matter what and Trump has no legal authority to stop that. Please remember that the taxing power is in the legislative branch. I’m sorry but we no longer have a judicial branch of the government because the administration is so corrupt. If you really believe there will be a legislative branch left if he is re-elected, you’re a fool. Dial down the hysterics. The one thing I am not is a fool and I'm very well aware of the corruption that I myself have brought up many times on this board, so please do not insult me. The judicial branch has not disappeared and neither that nor the legislative branch will disappear no matter who is elected. To-date, about 90% of Trump’s orders have been struck down by courts. The Constitution, 435 representatives and 100 senators are not going to be nullified just because Trump is president. Congress will continue to make laws just as it has for over 230 years. I don’t know why, but I wish articles that report this and Trump’s faulty claims would explain it better so recipients do not panic unnecessarily. Once again, it is only a deferment of the tax and payroll tax cannot be eliminated via executive order. Do not listen to Trump because he often claims authority he doesn’t have. The Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) was a law created and passed by Congress and as such, only Congress has the constitutional authority to repeal or revise the Act.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,922
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Aug 31, 2020 1:28:45 GMT
I’m sorry but we no longer have a judicial branch of the government because the administration is so corrupt. If you really believe there will be a legislative branch left if he is re-elected, you’re a fool. Dial down the hysterics. The one thing I am not is a fool and I'm very well aware of the corruption that I myself have brought up many times on this board, so please do not insult me. The judicial branch has not disappeared and neither that nor the legislative branch will disappear no matter who is elected. To-date, about 90% of Trump’s orders have been struck down by courts. The Constitution, 435 representatives and 100 senators are not going to be nullified just because Trump is president. Congress will continue to make laws just as it has for over 230 years. I don’t know why, but I wish articles that report this and Trump’s faulty claims would explain it better so recipients do not panic unnecessarily. Once again, it is only a deferment of the tax and payroll tax cannot be eliminated via executive order. Do not listen to Trump because he often claims authority he doesn’t have. The Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) was a law created and passed by Congress and as such, only Congress has the constitutional authority to repeal or revise the Act. You really view the current judicial branch of the government as acting independently from the current executive branch? You really view the current Senators as acting independently from the current executive branch? SMFH
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 31, 2020 1:34:21 GMT
Trump cannot get rid of payroll taxes permanently. Only Congress can via legislation. The only authority Trump has with payroll tax is to defer or postpone collection of the tax for a specified period. Those deferred taxes will come due no matter what and Trump has no legal authority to stop that. Please remember that the taxing power is in the legislative branch. Must hold the House! Must win the Senate!
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Aug 31, 2020 1:40:24 GMT
Dial down the hysterics. The one thing I am not is a fool and I'm very well aware of the corruption that I myself have brought up many times on this board, so please do not insult me. The judicial branch has not disappeared and neither that nor the legislative branch will disappear no matter who is elected. To-date, about 90% of Trump’s orders have been struck down by courts. The Constitution, 435 representatives and 100 senators are not going to be nullified just because Trump is president. Congress will continue to make laws just as it has for over 230 years. I don’t know why, but I wish articles that report this and Trump’s faulty claims would explain it better so recipients do not panic unnecessarily. Once again, it is only a deferment of the tax and payroll tax cannot be eliminated via executive order. Do not listen to Trump because he often claims authority he doesn’t have. The Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) was a law created and passed by Congress and as such, only Congress has the constitutional authority to repeal or revise the Act. You really view the current judicial branch of the government as acting independently from the current executive branch? You really view the current Senators as acting independently from the current executive branch? SMFH Well, continue to shake your f’ing head, because it is a fact that there are courts that continue to strike down unconstitutional orders by Trump. And yes, I have confidence in Democratic senators and representatives to continue resisting Trump’s extreme agenda and illegal acts.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,922
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Aug 31, 2020 1:56:03 GMT
You really view the current judicial branch of the government as acting independently from the current executive branch? You really view the current Senators as acting independently from the current executive branch? SMFH Well, continue to shake your f’ing head, because it is a fact that there are courts that continue to strike down unconstitutional orders by Trump. And yes, I have confidence in Democratic senators and representatives to continue resisting Trump’s extreme agenda and illegal acts. You didn’t answer my very specific questions. Wonder why?
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Post by hop2 on Aug 31, 2020 1:56:34 GMT
Trump cannot get rid of payroll taxes permanently. Only Congress can via legislation. The only authority Trump has with payroll tax is to defer or postpone collection of the tax for a specified period. Those deferred taxes will come due no matter what and Trump has no legal authority to stop that. Please remember that the taxing power is in the legislative branch. While I hear what you say, and logically I understand it. Thinking that way can’t be counted on anymore. I think people should be somewhat worried. Trump has done a lot of things that a president supposedly can not do. And there’s several parts of the constitution that he ignores on a daily basis. Emoluments clause anyone? So let’s not get all Trump can’t do that. While I don’t think he is automatically ‘king’ should the electoral college go in his favor in November, I no longer have complete confidence in our supposed system of checks & balances. That system is currently broken. The Senate is corrupted with greedy senators on the take. The president is rogue and he will do whatever he feels like doing until someone in one of check /balance groups gets their heads out of the sand & does what they are supposed to. People need to vote. Everyone should vote. Vote like your life depends on it because I’m no longer so positive that it doesn’t.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Aug 31, 2020 2:10:45 GMT
Well, continue to shake your f’ing head, because it is a fact that there are courts that continue to strike down unconstitutional orders by Trump. And yes, I have confidence in Democratic senators and representatives to continue resisting Trump’s extreme agenda and illegal acts. You didn’t answer my very specific questions. Wonder why? What don’t you understand? Courts striking down unconstitutional orders by Trump and congressional Dems resisting his extreme agenda and illegal actions ARE manifestly independent of the executive branch. If they were not acting independently and merely rubber-stamping Trump, then they wouldn't be doing those things.
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,087
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Aug 31, 2020 2:22:24 GMT
You didn’t answer my very specific questions. Wonder why? What don’t you understand? Courts striking down unconstitutional orders by Trump and congressional Dems resisting his extreme agenda and illegal actions ARE manifestly independent of the executive branch. If they were not acting independently and merely rubber-stamping Trump, then they wouldn't be doing those things. The CURRENT court system is striking down his illegal orders. If he wins, he will get another Kavanaugh to replace RBG, and probably one more. He will continue to pack the lower courts with non-qualified political hacks who are more than willing to do his bidding. Honestly, the potential court appointments are why I fear he might win—too many conservatives will continue to hold their noses solely because they have a good chance at getting a far-right court for at least the next 20 years, or probably longer because they are appointing some very young conservative judges. I really dread the world my three daughters will be stuck with if this happens. 😡
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