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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 16, 2020 16:50:21 GMT
from an Indie Wire article with the director, who states she worked with the girls and their parents all the way thru filming- the girls' parents are all activists who were on the same side of the issue as the director (which is the side of making the movie is exposing SOCIETY'S failings towards young girls...) And that she had a psychologist working with them during filming, AS WELL AS AFTER. Isn't the internet great? you have questions about something, and you can go find the answers, if they're there!
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The idea for “Cuties” was formed after Doucouré attended a neighborhood gathering in Paris and witnessed a group of young girls on a stage dancing in “a very sexually revealing way,” just as the characters in her film do.
“I decided to do research to see if they were aware and conscious of what they were doing,” Doucouré said. “I met over a hundred preteens who told me their stories. I asked them how they felt about their femininity in today’s society. I wanted to know how they dealt with their self-image at a time when social media is so important, and they have access to so much information and so many images.”
Doucouré said she “created a climate of trust between the children and myself” during filming, adding, “I explained to them everything I was doing and the research that I had done before I wrote this story. I was also lucky that these girls’ parents were also activists, so we were all on the same side. At their age, they’ve seen this kind of dance. Any child with a telephone can find these images on social media these days.”
“However, these were composite shots, so the girls weren’t dancing like that all the time,” the director continued. “We also worked with a child psychologist throughout the filming. She’s still working with the children, because I want to make sure that they can navigate this newfound stardom.”
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pinklady
Drama Llama
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Post by pinklady on Sept 16, 2020 16:57:03 GMT
I just can’t believe that the little girls who were in the movie weren’t harmed in some way, no matter how many protections were in place. Now if they’d used adults who looked like adolescents, or they’d done a documentary or something else, the conversation would be different for me. Can you clarify this? You think the actors were harmed and are not OK with that but you would have been OK with this same scenario/depiction if it was real children in a documentary.  Maybe I'm reading your statement wrong it sounds like your saying the safety/well being of actors is more important than real life children. Please tell me I'm wrong. |
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Olan on Sept 16, 2020 17:04:31 GMT
They could have used adult actors right? Precious comes to mind.
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Post by 16joy on Sept 16, 2020 17:06:24 GMT
At the point you have psychological help On set for The child actors, it should be shut down. If they are experiencing something so disturbing while filming, you are a party to it.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 16, 2020 17:21:55 GMT
At the point you have psychological help On set for The child actors, it should be shut down. If they are experiencing something so disturbing while filming, you are a party to it. what a short-sighted thing to say! I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that any children actor acting in a horror / suspense movie might have the same safeguards- Poltergeist, The Exorcist, and The Sixth Sense are two a few that come to mind right away. So no child actors should ever act in a movie?? Or are you saying it's not okay if they have a professional to explain the difference between 'acting' and 'real' life, and the reasoning behind what the movie is trying to show? |
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Post by myshelly on Sept 16, 2020 17:41:23 GMT
At the point you have psychological help On set for The child actors, it should be shut down. If they are experiencing something so disturbing while filming, you are a party to it. what a short-sighted thing to say! I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that any children actor acting in a horror / suspense movie might have the same safeguards- Poltergeist, The Exorcist, and The Sixth Sense are two that come to mind right away. So no child actors should ever act in a movie?? Or are you saying it's not okay if they have a professional to explain the difference between 'acting' and 'real' life, and the reasoning behind what the movie is trying to show? Honestly, I’m very, very bothered by child actors in horror movies as well. I don’t watch them. I have also stopped watching series I used to like (Criminal Minds is an example), when the plots involve children. Maybe saying children shouldn’t be exploited for adult entertainment shouldn’t be such a shocking idea. The fact that saying children should not purposely be put into situations they need a psychiatrist to help them through is somehow shocking, short sighted, or controversial seems like a pretty sad statement about our society. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 16, 2020 17:44:40 GMT
what a short-sighted thing to say! I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that any children actor acting in a horror / suspense movie might have the same safeguards- Poltergeist, The Exorcist, and The Sixth Sense are two that come to mind right away. So no child actors should ever act in a movie?? Or are you saying it's not okay if they have a professional to explain the difference between 'acting' and 'real' life, and the reasoning behind what the movie is trying to show? Honestly, I’m very, very bothered by child actors in horror movies as well. I don’t watch them. I have also stopped watching series I used to like (Criminal Minds is an example), when the plots involve children. Maybe saying children shouldn’t be exploited for adult entertainment shouldn’t be such a shocking idea. There have been quite a few movies I've refused to watch because I actually agree that it can be exploitative. You layer in the track record of hollywood and child actors and long term issues and it's pretty damn horrific. |
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Post by myshelly on Sept 16, 2020 17:48:03 GMT
Honestly, I’m very, very bothered by child actors in horror movies as well. I don’t watch them. I have also stopped watching series I used to like (Criminal Minds is an example), when the plots involve children. Maybe saying children shouldn’t be exploited for adult entertainment shouldn’t be such a shocking idea. There have been quite a few movies I've refused to watch because I actually agree that it can be exploitative. You layer in the track record of hollywood and child actors and long term issues and it's pretty damn horrific. Agreed. And it is purely for money and the entertainment of adults. How shallow do you have to be to try to defend it? |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 16, 2020 17:52:04 GMT
nd it is purely for money and the entertainment of adults. but it's not 'for entertainment' it's an indie / arts film trying to make a POINT. The Transformers series, with Megan Fox et. al. prancing around in a tank top and tiny shorts, totally outlandish plot lines and tons of loud explosions; now THAT'S a movie franchise that was made for entertainment and money-making. (teen-age boys' entertainment, mainly.) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 17:54:56 GMT
Honest question: pervs will jack off to these little girl actors . They will be fantasized about, mentally undressed, and more/worse. As they grow older, those same pervs will follow their careers and their bodies with their thoughts and attention. Are the girls victims in this case? To me, they are. That makes it not worth doing, IMO. you don't think those same 'pervs' don't find reruns of Toddlers in Tiaras, or dance competition videos posted by proud moms on YouTube to jack off to?!? if you think this movie is the problem and not the culture depicted IN the movie, then you're stupid. Wow. That was rude and harsh. Where did I ever say what they’re depicting isn’t problematic? I’ve never seen or endorsed a single show or movie that’s been mentioned in this thread because I think the entire culture is gross and inappropriate. I even said as my first line that my problem is not the message of the film. But thanks for misrepresenting me and then calling me stupid. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 17:57:23 GMT
I just can’t believe that the little girls who were in the movie weren’t harmed in some way, no matter how many protections were in place. Now if they’d used adults who looked like adolescents, or they’d done a documentary or something else, the conversation would be different for me. Can you clarify this? You think the actors were harmed and are not OK with that but you would have been OK with this same scenario/depiction if it was real children in a documentary. Maybe I'm reading your statement wrong it sounds like your saying the safety/well being of actors is more important than real life children. Please tell me I'm wrong. Yes of course you’re wrong. If they had used news footage, footage from the author’s past, heck even footage from these shows that have been mentioned, or done interviews with survivors, etc, to create it documentary style, rather than a dramatization of it. |
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Post by myshelly on Sept 16, 2020 17:57:26 GMT
nd it is purely for money and the entertainment of adults. but it's not 'for entertainment' it's an indie / arts film trying to make a POINT. The Transformers series, with Megan Fox et. al. prancing around in a tank top and tiny shorts, totally outlandish plot lines and tons of loud explosions; now THAT'S a movie franchise that was made for entertainment and money-making. (teen-age boys' entertainment, mainly.) I think you ignored the vast majority of what I said and cherry picked that one sentence. |
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Post by sleepingbooty on Sept 16, 2020 18:02:00 GMT
The American outrage at this French movie is something else. From the country where there were countdowns to Britney Spears' 18th birthday on major TV channels.
A few pointers:
1. This movie sparked discussion but not CANCEL-THE-MOVIE outrage in France. It seems like there's a cultural comprehension issue between this side of the pond and the American side.
2. A child psychologist was on set every single time the girls were there. There were major discussions between the actors, their parents and the production about not only what the movie was, how it would impact their life and what kind of confusion it could lead to. This is by far one of the best supervised and constant open communication sets France has seen. I really don't understand people who cry over the wellbeing of these girls. They seem well taken care of in a universal healthcare system country where they won't need to use any money made from the movie for any aftercare if required.
3. Cuties is a poor translation because it misses the major French literature reference Mignonnes constitutes. "Mignonne, allons voir si la rose..." or the Ode à Cassandre by Pierre de Ronsard is one of France's most famous poems and dates back to 1545 when the French king hired poets to constitute a library of modern French language literary work to give gravitas to the newly emerging unified(ish) nation. You can celebrate the poem for its innocent young love or look at it with a critical eye and condemn how women are reduced to objects of adoration in "their prime" AKA their pubescent youth. Every French person got the reference immediately and knew this would be a very critical, incisive look at how being a young girl in today's world is (remains, actually) a dangerous and particularly difficult voyage. This is an important movie. It took extroardinary precautions for the child actors involved. I'm saddened to hear what our American neighbours are reducing it to. Where's your critical thinking and basic understanding of what art constitutes?
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Post by beebee on Sept 16, 2020 18:02:00 GMT
I have not seen the movie and won't. In general, from what I am reading, it is a good message. But they should have used adults for the roles. I don't care for competitive dancing either.
If you actually have to hire a psychologist to stay on set for the girls, that should tell everyone everything they need to know about the movie and the effect it could have on the girls.
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Post by myshelly on Sept 16, 2020 18:04:16 GMT
The American outrage at this French movie is something else. From the country where there were countdowns to Britney Spears' 18th birthday on major TV channels. A few pointers: 1. This movie sparked discussion but not CANCEL-THE-MOVIE outrage in France. It seems like there's a cultural comprehension issue between this side of the pond and the American side. 2. A child psychologist was on set every single time the girls were there. There were major discussions between the actors, their parents and the production about not only what the movie was, how it would impact their life and what kind of confusion it could lead to. This is by far one of the best supervised and constant open communication sets France has seen. I really don't understand people who cry over the wellbeing of these girls. They seem well taken care of in a universal healthcare system country where they won't need to use any money made from the movie for any aftercare if required. 3. Cuties is a poor translation because it misses the major French literature reference Mignonnes constitutes. "Mignonne, allons voir si la rose..." or the Ode à Cassandre by Pierre de Ronsard is one of France's most famous poems and dates back to 1545 when the French king hired poets to constitute a library of modern French language literary work to give gravitas to the newly emerging unified(ish) nation. You can celebrate the poem for its innocent young love or look at it with a critical eye and condemn how women are reduced to objects of adoration in "their prime" AKA their pubescent youth. Every French person got the reference immediately and knew this would be a very critical, incisive look at how being a young girl in today's world is (remains, actually) a dangerous and particularly difficult voyage. This is an important movie. It took extroardinary precautions for the child actors involved. I'm saddened to hear what our American neighbours are reducing it to. Where's your critical thinking and basic understanding of what art constitutes? My outrage comes from the fact that no adult should purposely put a child in a situation that they need a psychiatrist to help them through. Not just this movie, but any movie that exploits a child by putting them in a situation a child shouldn’t be end. If you need a psychiatrist to do it, that’s a pretty good indication you just shouldn’t do it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 18:05:42 GMT
I bet if she'd used adult actors, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I will never watch this movie. But I DETEST the 'dance' culture and the overall sexy dance (TikTok etc) culture in the US (and other places apparently).
Children should not be sexualized.
But children also shouldn't be used to make money for influencers - and we see that happening every day. These children's privacy is sold off for swipe ups and coupon codes - and they have NO say in that and no counseling. They will grow up and look back on mom and dad selling their private moments, their swimming, their parties, their lives to afford mom and dad's mcmansion and SUV.
It's all disgusting and I will continue to work and rail and donate against it all.
But I sure am glad the discussion is happening.
Look at the pictures I posted from 2010 and 2012. Were people up in arms about that to the level that this movie has raised?
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Post by sleepingbooty on Sept 16, 2020 18:06:59 GMT
If you need a psychiatrist to do it, that’s a pretty good indication you just shouldn’t do it. It's called precautionary measures. I don't think people from countries where healthcare is out-of-this-world expensive understand the notion of genuine offer of preventive care. |
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Post by sleepingbooty on Sept 16, 2020 18:12:50 GMT
Here's Maïmouna Doucouré's explanation on how Cuties came to be, not that I think it will change anyone's mind on this clearly polarising matter:
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Post by myshelly on Sept 16, 2020 18:22:24 GMT
If you need a psychiatrist to do it, that’s a pretty good indication you just shouldn’t do it. It's called precautionary measures. I don't think people from countries where healthcare is out-of-this-world expensive understand the notion of genuine offer of preventive care. If we just didn’t exploit children this way, they wouldn’t be in a situation where they need care at all. |
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
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Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Sept 16, 2020 18:27:34 GMT
My question is, were you equally outraged during The Exorcist or Taxi Driver? Pretty Baby, Blue Lagoon, or Leon:The Professional? What about Lolita, Kickass, or Thirteen? Cuties and Thirteen, at least, had thought provoking storylines. Yes, I was. Grossed me out and I was glad to see the end of these kinds of 70's expolitive movies. Let's not forget Lipstick. That absolutely was traumatizing. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 18:49:35 GMT
The bottom line for me is that despite the message that what is being depicted is bad and should make us hate it, these young actresses' bodies were offered up for adult consumption before the girls are able to offer consent. That's a deal breaker for me.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
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Post by sassyangel on Sept 16, 2020 19:08:48 GMT
The American outrage at this French movie is something else. From the country where there were countdowns to Britney Spears' 18th birthday on major TV channels. A few pointers: 1. This movie sparked discussion but not CANCEL-THE-MOVIE outrage in France. It seems like there's a cultural comprehension issue between this side of the pond and the American side. 2. A child psychologist was on set every single time the girls were there. There were major discussions between the actors, their parents and the production about not only what the movie was, how it would impact their life and what kind of confusion it could lead to. This is by far one of the best supervised and constant open communication sets France has seen. I really don't understand people who cry over the wellbeing of these girls. They seem well taken care of in a universal healthcare system country where they won't need to use any money made from the movie for any aftercare if required. 3. Cuties is a poor translation because it misses the major French literature reference Mignonnes constitutes. "Mignonne, allons voir si la rose..." or the Ode à Cassandre by Pierre de Ronsard is one of France's most famous poems and dates back to 1545 when the French king hired poets to constitute a library of modern French language literary work to give gravitas to the newly emerging unified(ish) nation. You can celebrate the poem for its innocent young love or look at it with a critical eye and condemn how women are reduced to objects of adoration in "their prime" AKA their pubescent youth. Every French person got the reference immediately and knew this would be a very critical, incisive look at how being a young girl in today's world is (remains, actually) a dangerous and particularly difficult voyage. This is an important movie. It took extroardinary precautions for the child actors involved. I'm saddened to hear what our American neighbours are reducing it to. Where's your critical thinking and basic understanding of what art constitutes? I think that’s an interesting observation on the effect of the French/English translation of the title. Translating it to *Cuties* has clearly not worked well here. It hasnt conveyed what it has in French (based on a poem that is very familiar to French people) at all, unfortunately. Clearly, you’re very fluently bilingual  what kind of English title do you think would convey the French intent, bearing in mind people here don’t have a familiarity with the French poem? And I’m not sure there is an English equivalent. I do think it’s interesting this country is the one that has raised the most outrage about it. I’m of two minds about why that is. |
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Post by gale w on Sept 16, 2020 19:33:06 GMT
My question is, were you equally outraged during The Exorcist or Taxi Driver? Pretty Baby, Blue Lagoon, or Leon:The Professional? What about Lolita, Kickass, or Thirteen? Cuties and Thirteen, at least, had thought provoking storylines. Yes, I was. Grossed me out and I was glad to see the end of these kinds of 70's expolitive movies. Let's not forget Lipstick. That absolutely was traumatizing. Believe it or not, I saw that movie when I was 10 or 11. I'm sure of my age at the time because we lived in Okinawa and we moved just before I turned 12. My sister and her boyfriend took me and she didn't know in advance how bad for kids the movie would be (although the R rating should have been a clue). I think she and her boyfriend just wanted to go to the movies and they had to take me along (babysitting, I guess) and where we lived, they only showed one movie at a time. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 20:02:27 GMT
The bottom line for me is that despite the message that what is being depicted is bad and should make us hate it, these young actresses' bodies were offered up for adult consumption before the girls are able to offer consent. That's a deal breaker for me. Just like the Dance competitions I posted above, right? And the twerking little kids do online that so many seem to think is "precocious". Hate them all. And rail against them all. Not just one particular one. |
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
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Post by sassyangel on Sept 16, 2020 20:11:09 GMT
The bottom line for me is that despite the message that what is being depicted is bad and should make us hate it, these young actresses' bodies were offered up for adult consumption before the girls are able to offer consent. That's a deal breaker for me. Just like the Dance competitions I posted above, right? And the twerking little kids do online that so many seem to think is "precocious". Hate them all. And rail against them all. Not just one particular one. I don’t have it, but it seems like TikTok, in particular, has a lot of that hosted stuff now. |
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Post by myshelly on Sept 16, 2020 20:15:38 GMT
The bottom line for me is that despite the message that what is being depicted is bad and should make us hate it, these young actresses' bodies were offered up for adult consumption before the girls are able to offer consent. That's a deal breaker for me. Just like the Dance competitions I posted above, right? And the twerking little kids do online that so many seem to think is "precocious". Hate them all. And rail against them all. Not just one particular one. I don’t think anyone on this thread who is bothered by cuties has defended any of the other things. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 16, 2020 20:20:48 GMT
I don’t think anyone on this thread who is bothered by cuties has defended any of the other things. well, if they're talking about canceling Netflix, or how gross / horrible this movie is because the director had a psychologist available to help the young actresses... yet they're NOT talking about how gross / horrible dance competitions or teeny-bopper singers are... then that's pretty hypocritical, at the very least. The people who are most vocal against this MOVIE have NOT said they're against the sexualization of tween girls and the consumer-driven culture that's necessitated the making of this movie. Instagram influencers, magazines, fashion, pop music, other social media sites, music videos, Youtubers, etc. etc. (not necessarily just here- Ted Cruz, the other religious people who have said how horrible the movie is... etc. Yet how HUGE is the football machine, dance competition, cheer competition, and pageant machine in Texas? He's totally a hypocrite.) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 20:20:58 GMT
Just like the Dance competitions I posted above, right? And the twerking little kids do online that so many seem to think is "precocious". Hate them all. And rail against them all. Not just one particular one. I don’t think anyone on this thread who is bothered by cuties has defended any of the other things. Great. I don't think anyone on this thread who is bothered by Cuties has denigrated the Dance competitions that have been doing the exact same thing for decades either. I'd like to see more outrage to those sexualizing children day in and day out - at least as much for that as for a woman who is trying to shine a spotlight on this deplorable culture. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 20:26:24 GMT
The bottom line for me is that despite the message that what is being depicted is bad and should make us hate it, these young actresses' bodies were offered up for adult consumption before the girls are able to offer consent. That's a deal breaker for me. Just like the Dance competitions I posted above, right? And the twerking little kids do online that so many seem to think is "precocious". Hate them all. And rail against them all. Not just one particular one. Yes. I agree with you 1000%. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 20:28:00 GMT
I don’t think anyone on this thread who is bothered by cuties has defended any of the other things. well, if they're talking about canceling Netflix, or how gross / horrible this movie is because the director had a psychologist available to help the young actresses... yet they're NOT talking about how gross / horrible dance competitions or teeny-bopper singers are... then that's pretty hypocritical, at the very least. The people who are most vocal against this MOVIE have NOT said they're against the sexualization of tween girls and the consumer-driven culture that's produced the culture that necessitated the making of this movie. Instagram influencers, magazines, fashion, pop music, other social media sites, music videos, Youtubers, etc. etc. (not necessarily just here- Ted Cruz, the other religious people who have said how horrible the movie is... etc. Yet how HUGE is the football machine, dance competition, cheer competition, and pageant machine in Texas? He's totally a hypocrite.) Rather than assuming we endorse those things, consider the fact that for some of us, it's a foregone conclusion that those things are gross and shouldn't exist. And I actually do remember many discussions here in the past about some of the dances that have been shown/mentioned here. |
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what kind of English title do you think would convey the French intent, bearing in mind people here don’t have a familiarity with the French poem? And I’m not sure there is an English equivalent.
