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Post by elaine on Sept 16, 2020 20:33:23 GMT
Just curious: the Harry Potter films, which have substantial portions that border on horror films used child actors. Are those films, at least the first 4 where the stars were under 16, also taboo?
If not, why not?
And what makes the level of exploitation of child actors not okay vs. okay in your eyes? One could make the case that to some degree, all child actors and singers and athletes are exploited.
Do you watch the summer Olympics and cheer for the “women’s” gymnastic team which is composed of children? The children competing certainly wear a ton of makeup while competing in a sport for exploitative reasons. Eyeshadow and mascara don’t enhance one’s performance on the balance beam, it makes the children seem more mature and attractive to adults. Why is that okay, yet a movie meant to spark dialogue about the lengths children will sexualize themselves for approval should be boycotted?
Even in sitcoms, child actors are removed from typical childhood lives, are heavily made up, and are served up as entertainment for adults. When is that okay and when is it not?
It is interesting to me to discuss what people deem unacceptable while finding similar things okay.
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Dani-Mani on Sept 16, 2020 20:36:51 GMT
what a short-sighted thing to say! I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that any children actor acting in a horror / suspense movie might have the same safeguards- Poltergeist, The Exorcist, and The Sixth Sense are two that come to mind right away. So no child actors should ever act in a movie?? Or are you saying it's not okay if they have a professional to explain the difference between 'acting' and 'real' life, and the reasoning behind what the movie is trying to show? Honestly, I’m very, very bothered by child actors in horror movies as well. I don’t watch them. I have also stopped watching series I used to like (Criminal Minds is an example), when the plots involve children. Maybe saying children shouldn’t be exploited for adult entertainment shouldn’t be such a shocking idea. The fact that saying children should not purposely be put into situations they need a psychiatrist to help them through is somehow shocking, short sighted, or controversial seems like a pretty sad statement about our society. A psychologist. A child psychologist. A psychiatrist prescribes medicine. A psychologist does counseling. They. Are. Not. The. Same. Carry on. (And yes, I’ve seen the movie and wasn’t bothered by it) |
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Post by elaine on Sept 16, 2020 20:38:05 GMT
Honestly, I’m very, very bothered by child actors in horror movies as well. I don’t watch them. I have also stopped watching series I used to like (Criminal Minds is an example), when the plots involve children. Maybe saying children shouldn’t be exploited for adult entertainment shouldn’t be such a shocking idea. The fact that saying children should not purposely be put into situations they need a psychiatrist to help them through is somehow shocking, short sighted, or controversial seems like a pretty sad statement about our society. A psychologist. A child psychologist. A psychiatrist prescribes medicine. A psychologist does counseling. They. Are. Not. The. Same. Carry on. (And yes, I’ve seen the movie and wasn’t bothered by it) I love you. ❤️ |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 16, 2020 20:46:32 GMT
Just curious: the Harry Potter films, which have substantial portions that border on horror films used child actors. Are those films, at least the first 4 where the stars were under 16, also taboo? If not, why not? And what makes the level of exploitation of child actors not okay vs. okay in your eyes? One could make the case that to some degree, all child actors and singers and athletes are exploited. Do you watch the summer Olympics and cheer for the “women’s” gymnastic team which is composed of children? The children competing certainly wear a ton of makeup while competing in a sport for exploitative reasons. Eyeshadow and mascara don’t enhance one’s performance on the balance beam, it makes the children seem more mature and attractive to adults. Why is that okay, yet a movie meant to spark dialogue about the lengths children will sexualize themselves for approval should be boycotted? Even in sitcoms, child actors are removed from typical childhood lives, are heavily made up, and are served up as entertainment for adults. When is that okay and when is it not? It is interesting to me to discuss what people deem unacceptable while finding similar things okay. I would not consider gymnastics part of this discussion because I feel the focus of the sport is still on the athletic ability of the athletes. I am not sure how I feel about very young children being wholly devoted to any sport or entertainment career. I think these situations often create long term mental and/or physical issues for the children involved, but many of these children also want to pursue these interests. I believe in art and the importance of art. I'm against censorship. I'm having trouble squaring that with my disgust for the dance/pageant/child actor scene. |
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Post by sleepingbooty on Sept 16, 2020 20:57:43 GMT
And because I do think it's important to note: the outrage is almost exclusively American. If you can't see that your country's puritanist past and conservative present (even if you're not conservative or Republican yourself) during a crucial time for US politics are leading the way here, you're ignoring a major red flag. The movie didn't get any of this outrage in France when it was released in theatres this summer (it's still being shown in cinemas all over the country). The movie is being praised in Senegal, Doucouré's other home country. The movie shows an important and very, very widespread story of being a female tween in today's multi-layered culture. As this NBC News piece notes: Reputable French media are attempting to understand the very American outcry and outrage over what is a feminist, positive and otherwise lauded movie. American politics and the ultraconservative fringe picking up on the story first to make it widespread are the keys to understanding the American exception on this matter. I can only encourage those who are crying out against this movie to stop, think and watch it to form their opinion if they feel they're usually not on the ultraconservative side of the opinion spectrum. |
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Post by elaine on Sept 16, 2020 21:00:09 GMT
Just curious: the Harry Potter films, which have substantial portions that border on horror films used child actors. Are those films, at least the first 4 where the stars were under 16, also taboo? If not, why not? And what makes the level of exploitation of child actors not okay vs. okay in your eyes? One could make the case that to some degree, all child actors and singers and athletes are exploited. Do you watch the summer Olympics and cheer for the “women’s” gymnastic team which is composed of children? The children competing certainly wear a ton of makeup while competing in a sport for exploitative reasons. Eyeshadow and mascara don’t enhance one’s performance on the balance beam, it makes the children seem more mature and attractive to adults. Why is that okay, yet a movie meant to spark dialogue about the lengths children will sexualize themselves for approval should be boycotted? Even in sitcoms, child actors are removed from typical childhood lives, are heavily made up, and are served up as entertainment for adults. When is that okay and when is it not? It is interesting to me to discuss what people deem unacceptable while finding similar things okay. I am not sure how I feel about very young children being wholly devoted to any sport or entertainment career. I think these situations often create long term mental and/or physical issues for the children involved, but many of these children also want to pursue these interests. I believe in art and the importance of art. I'm against censorship. I'm having trouble squaring that with my disgust for the dance/pageant/child actor scene. To some degree, but there is still a hefty-enough degree of exploitation/sexualization in “women’s” gymnastics that they are heavily made up while participating in their sport. I haven’t seen any male gymnasts sporting lipstick, eyeshadow or rouge; although, both male and female gymnasts (and figure skaters) are judged on appearance (an issue with subjectively scored sports), in addition to execution, and both genders in these subjective sports are rife with eating disorders for this reason. I agree that children who pursue careers while children face psychological and/or physical issues from spending so much time engaged in those activities to the exclusion of more typical things. And that concerns me too. |
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Deleted
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Oct 4, 2024 19:17:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 21:19:56 GMT
Just curious: the Harry Potter films, which have substantial portions that border on horror films used child actors. Are those films, at least the first 4 where the stars were under 16, also taboo? If not, why not? And what makes the level of exploitation of child actors not okay vs. okay in your eyes? One could make the case that to some degree, all child actors and singers and athletes are exploited. Do you watch the summer Olympics and cheer for the “women’s” gymnastic team which is composed of children? The children competing certainly wear a ton of makeup while competing in a sport for exploitative reasons. Eyeshadow and mascara don’t enhance one’s performance on the balance beam, it makes the children seem more mature and attractive to adults. Why is that okay, yet a movie meant to spark dialogue about the lengths children will sexualize themselves for approval should be boycotted? Even in sitcoms, child actors are removed from typical childhood lives, are heavily made up, and are served up as entertainment for adults. When is that okay and when is it not? It is interesting to me to discuss what people deem unacceptable while finding similar things okay. It’s interesting that you mention the olympics because my earlier reply included discomfort with child olympians too but I deleted it for lack of time to clearly state my position. But yes, that bothers me too. Not so much for the makeup and costumes as much as for for the grueling physical things they have to do in the name of entertaining us. I haven’t fully flushed out my thoughts on that though because I realize there is some personal satisfaction in the activity for them too. But I wish the minimum ages were higher. |
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Deleted
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Oct 4, 2024 19:17:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 21:23:21 GMT
Even if we can square the exposure of the child actresses, can the argument legitimately be made that this film will make anyone who was previously exploiting children stop? If no (which I suspect is the answer), what then is the purpose?
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maryannscraps
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by maryannscraps on Sept 16, 2020 21:23:48 GMT
I only know what I’ve read in this thread about the movie and ensuing outrage, but I’ll offer this: Twenty-three (!) years ago, I pulled my five year-old out of a dance school for two reasons: 1. I returned early one day and the girls were gleefully processing around with white chiffon scarves on their heads to “Here Comes the Bride.” Apparently, it was something they did in all the youngin’ classes when they had a couple minutes to kill. 2. At the culminating recital, the dances of the only-slightly-older girls were gallingly sexualized. And I know it’s gotten much, MUCH worse since then. Bride or stripper. Those were the choices. Plays right into the “Madonna whore” dichotomy. After I watched my daughter's friends' recital, I found a dance studio for my kids where the teacher's views aligned with mine. Nothing suggestive, nothing sexual, nothing "adult." My belief system raising my girls was always that people have such a short time to be kids and such a long time to be adults. I refused to let anyone rush them through their childhood. I found a similar studio for my daughter. The owner is a friend of mine, and has rules about no sexual dancing, no skimpy costumes, nothing suggestive. And she follows through on it. I remember once that a new teacher started a dance with the girls that was very suggestive. One call to my friend, and she found a different song. DD is 26 now, and still dancing, so it must have still been fun for her even without all that. |
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Post by elaine on Sept 16, 2020 21:34:44 GMT
Even if we can square the exposure of the child actresses, can the argument legitimately be made that this film will make anyone who was previously exploiting children stop? If no (which I suspect is the answer), what then is the purpose? Will it make parents of young girls more aware of the need to supervise their social media? To follow through and put appropriate limits on it? Will it cause some parents to be more selective in the dance studios they enroll their children in? I think it may be helpful to broaden who the target audiences are and what the goals are. If it gives parents a push to be more active in supervising their daughters, that is a good outcome. I think that we are even having this discussion here is a small positive that has happened due to the film. |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 16, 2020 21:38:54 GMT
Even if we can square the exposure of the child actresses, can the argument legitimately be made that this film will make anyone who was previously exploiting children stop? If no (which I suspect is the answer), what then is the purpose? The purpose of the film was not to end child exploitation, though I'm sure the director and everyone attached wishes they had the power to end it. The purpose was to shed light on the way society sexualized young women, and young black women, in particular. To spur discussion and to make us think. In that sense, the film has been a remarkable success. I think this is an important discussion, though I hate the political slant (claims that it's the left "normalizing pedophilia). |
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Deleted
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Oct 4, 2024 19:17:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 21:51:55 GMT
Even if we can square the exposure of the child actresses, can the argument legitimately be made that this film will make anyone who was previously exploiting children stop? If no (which I suspect is the answer), what then is the purpose? The purpose of the film was not to end child exploitation, though I'm sure the director and everyone attached wishes they had the power to end it. The purpose was to shed light on the way society sexualized young women, and young black women, in particular. To spur discussion and to make us think. In that sense, the film has been a remarkable success. I think this is an important discussion, though I hate the political slant (claims that it's the left "normalizing pedophilia). Hmmm. I’m still not sure I believe that it is illuminating anything new for anyone not concerned about such things already. And if so, if it is worth the cost. But I do see the argument. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Sept 16, 2020 23:36:15 GMT
I bet if she'd used adult actors, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I will never watch this movie. But I DETEST the 'dance' culture and the overall sexy dance (TikTok etc) culture in the US (and other places apparently). Children should not be sexualized. But children also shouldn't be used to make money for influencers - and we see that happening every day. These children's privacy is sold off for swipe ups and coupon codes - and they have NO say in that and no counseling. They will grow up and look back on mom and dad selling their private moments, their swimming, their parties, their lives to afford mom and dad's mcmansion and SUV. It's all disgusting and I will continue to work and rail and donate against it all. But I sure am glad the discussion is happening. Look at the pictures I posted from 2010 and 2012. Were people up in arms about that to the level that this movie has raised? I agree with this. I have no desire to see this movie, but I do hope that maybe it is sparking a much needed discussion.I dislike seeing the sexualization of children through clothes, through dance, or by any other means. It seems to me that this has been a problem for years. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 17, 2020 1:18:33 GMT
On the Harry Potter movies elaine - I think I'd need to better understand how much the child actors are actually experiencing. So much of "horror" films now are in special effects. I also do think it's easier to separate pretending to be scared about something you know is not real to sexual behavior. I actually haven't seen many of the movies mentioned here except Blue Lagoon and I remember my parents being horrified at the time, I watched bits and pieces of it later as an adult and do think that it was wildly inappropriate. The makeup analogy is interesting as male figure skaters DO often wear makeup. It's less to do with making them look older than bringing out their features - although I don't see the same in gymnastics. Perhaps as there's more "show" quality in figure skating - anyone on a stage male or female is going to have heavy makeup or they just lose their features under the lights. I do find both of these sports troublesome for the incredibly personal sacrifice they demand of young children and am concerned that too many aren't able to really understand the risk rewards - although I feel that way about football too and it has nothing to do with sexualization. I guess in general I'm in the camp of being very thoughtful about protecting children and making sure that in the rush for entertainment of whatever variety - we're not damaging them. |
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Post by elaine on Sept 17, 2020 2:06:17 GMT
On the Harry Potter movies elaine - I think I'd need to better understand how much the child actors are actually experiencing. So much of "horror" films now are in special effects. I also do think it's easier to separate pretending to be scared about something you know is not real to sexual behavior. I actually haven't seen many of the movies mentioned here except Blue Lagoon and I remember my parents being horrified at the time, I watched bits and pieces of it later as an adult and do think that it was wildly inappropriate. The makeup analogy is interesting as male figure skaters DO often wear makeup. It's less to do with making them look older than bringing out their features - although I don't see the same in gymnastics. Perhaps as there's more "show" quality in figure skating - anyone on a stage male or female is going to have heavy makeup or they just lose their features under the lights. I do find both of these sports troublesome for the incredibly personal sacrifice they demand of young children and am concerned that too many aren't able to really understand the risk rewards - although I feel that way about football too and it has nothing to do with sexualization. I guess in general I'm in the camp of being very thoughtful about protecting children and making sure that in the rush for entertainment of whatever variety - we're not damaging them. I agree with you about the child actors in horror films. I was just interested in the declarations by at least one Harry Potter fan that she won’t watch horror films with children in them. The experience of filming movies, is quite disconnected from the finished product. Scenes are shot out of order and with the plethora of special effects, one doesn’t even see the monster(s) in the scene, and the ability to convince the audience that you are scared IS acting. I, personally, think that while child actors often face challenges due to their atypical lives and celebrity, it usually is different than the sexualization of little girls in a variety venues - though not always, of course. In terms of figure skating and gymnastics, figure skating has done a much better job of keeping young teenage girls out of the Olympics. There are some, but they are the minority, and aren’t considered past their prime when they hit 18. And due to physical maturity timelines, in both figure skating and gymnastics male competitors tend to be adults. If adults - male and female - want to wear makeup, more power to them. I wanted to broaden the discussion to include other more socially accepted activities where we, as a society, seem much more comfortable with the exploitation of girls, given that posters were starting to list other types of child entertainment that they were avoiding. I don’t think that there are any easy answers. Child athletes may be driven, but exploitation also definitely happens (Bela Karoyli). And once the family has mortgaged the house to pay for lessons, fees, and equipment, and moved across the country to be closer to THE coach/studio, and mom or dad having to drive child to and from the studio/rink daily for years, etc., it becomes harder, I’m sure for parents to not exert some pressure (subtle or overt) for the child to follow through. But, their parents tend to be involved and supervise to some degree, unlike the girls in the film. The lack of parental involvement, leaving children on their own to navigate social media and the sexuality it rewards, being one of the main points of the film. And, I DO think that is a very important point to highlight. I strongly agree with your statement that I bolded! |
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Post by mollycoddle on Sept 17, 2020 2:12:25 GMT
Just curious: the Harry Potter films, which have substantial portions that border on horror films used child actors. Are those films, at least the first 4 where the stars were under 16, also taboo? If not, why not? And what makes the level of exploitation of child actors not okay vs. okay in your eyes? One could make the case that to some degree, all child actors and singers and athletes are exploited. Do you watch the summer Olympics and cheer for the “women’s” gymnastic team which is composed of children? The children competing certainly wear a ton of makeup while competing in a sport for exploitative reasons. Eyeshadow and mascara don’t enhance one’s performance on the balance beam, it makes the children seem more mature and attractive to adults. Why is that okay, yet a movie meant to spark dialogue about the lengths children will sexualize themselves for approval should be boycotted? Even in sitcoms, child actors are removed from typical childhood lives, are heavily made up, and are served up as entertainment for adults. When is that okay and when is it not? It is interesting to me to discuss what people deem unacceptable while finding similar things okay. Interesting question and I don’t have an answer. We all probably have some variation on what makes us uncomfortable. I’m not a boycotter, but a movie like this would not be enjoyable to me. I don’t like to see young girls heavily made up or wearing clothes that an adult would wear in any situation. I need to have a think about this. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Sept 17, 2020 2:13:31 GMT
Just curious: the Harry Potter films, which have substantial portions that border on horror films used child actors. Are those films, at least the first 4 where the stars were under 16, also taboo? If not, why not? And what makes the level of exploitation of child actors not okay vs. okay in your eyes? One could make the case that to some degree, all child actors and singers and athletes are exploited. Do you watch the summer Olympics and cheer for the “women’s” gymnastic team which is composed of children? The children competing certainly wear a ton of makeup while competing in a sport for exploitative reasons. Eyeshadow and mascara don’t enhance one’s performance on the balance beam, it makes the children seem more mature and attractive to adults. Why is that okay, yet a movie meant to spark dialogue about the lengths children will sexualize themselves for approval should be boycotted? Even in sitcoms, child actors are removed from typical childhood lives, are heavily made up, and are served up as entertainment for adults. When is that okay and when is it not? It is interesting to me to discuss what people deem unacceptable while finding similar things okay. I would not consider gymnastics part of this discussion because I feel the focus of the sport is still on the athletic ability of the athletes. I am not sure how I feel about very young children being wholly devoted to any sport or entertainment career. I think these situations often create long term mental and/or physical issues for the children involved, but many of these children also want to pursue these interests. I believe in art and the importance of art. I'm against censorship. I'm having trouble squaring that with my disgust for the dance/pageant/child actor scene. Me too! |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 17, 2020 2:19:36 GMT
The American outrage at this French movie is something else. From the country where there were countdowns to Britney Spears' 18th birthday on major TV channels. A few pointers: 1. This movie sparked discussion but not CANCEL-THE-MOVIE outrage in France. It seems like there's a cultural comprehension issue between this side of the pond and the American side. 2. A child psychologist was on set every single time the girls were there. There were major discussions between the actors, their parents and the production about not only what the movie was, how it would impact their life and what kind of confusion it could lead to. This is by far one of the best supervised and constant open communication sets France has seen. I really don't understand people who cry over the wellbeing of these girls. They seem well taken care of in a universal healthcare system country where they won't need to use any money made from the movie for any aftercare if required. 3. Cuties is a poor translation because it misses the major French literature reference Mignonnes constitutes. "Mignonne, allons voir si la rose..." or the Ode à Cassandre by Pierre de Ronsard is one of France's most famous poems and dates back to 1545 when the French king hired poets to constitute a library of modern French language literary work to give gravitas to the newly emerging unified(ish) nation. You can celebrate the poem for its innocent young love or look at it with a critical eye and condemn how women are reduced to objects of adoration in "their prime" AKA their pubescent youth. Every French person got the reference immediately and knew this would be a very critical, incisive look at how being a young girl in today's world is (remains, actually) a dangerous and particularly difficult voyage. This is an important movie. It took extroardinary precautions for the child actors involved. I'm saddened to hear what our American neighbours are reducing it to. Where's your critical thinking and basic understanding of what art constitutes? I think that’s an interesting observation on the effect of the French/English translation of the title. Translating it to *Cuties* has clearly not worked well here. It hasnt conveyed what it has in French (based on a poem that is very familiar to French people) at all, unfortunately. Clearly, you’re very fluently bilingual  what kind of English title do you think would convey the French intent, bearing in mind people here don’t have a familiarity with the French poem? And I’m not sure there is an English equivalent. I do think it’s interesting this country is the one that has raised the most outrage about it. I’m of two minds about why that is. I haven’t watched the movie and don’t plan to. But I’m not sure why the need to mention “universal healthcare country” several times in this thread? I don’t think the concern is that the girls would have to pay for their mental health care if they needed it. The concern is (in part) that they may be exposed to something that would necessitate mental health care in the first place. I also don’t recall countdowns to Britney Spears turning 18? Also, just because something is seen as “ok” in one country doesn’t mean that it should be accepted everywhere. And vice versa. One culture is not necessarily better or “right”. That goes for a variety of issues, not just this movie. |
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Post by myshelly on Sept 17, 2020 2:29:37 GMT
On the Harry Potter movies elaine - I think I'd need to better understand how much the child actors are actually experiencing. So much of "horror" films now are in special effects. I also do think it's easier to separate pretending to be scared about something you know is not real to sexual behavior. I actually haven't seen many of the movies mentioned here except Blue Lagoon and I remember my parents being horrified at the time, I watched bits and pieces of it later as an adult and do think that it was wildly inappropriate. The makeup analogy is interesting as male figure skaters DO often wear makeup. It's less to do with making them look older than bringing out their features - although I don't see the same in gymnastics. Perhaps as there's more "show" quality in figure skating - anyone on a stage male or female is going to have heavy makeup or they just lose their features under the lights. I do find both of these sports troublesome for the incredibly personal sacrifice they demand of young children and am concerned that too many aren't able to really understand the risk rewards - although I feel that way about football too and it has nothing to do with sexualization. I guess in general I'm in the camp of being very thoughtful about protecting children and making sure that in the rush for entertainment of whatever variety - we're not damaging them. I agree with you about the child actors in horror films. I was just interested in the declarations by at least one Harry Potter fan that she won’t watch horror films with children in them. The experience of filming movies, is quite disconnected from the finished product. Scenes are shot out of order and with the plethora of special effects, one doesn’t even see the monster(s) in the scene, and the ability to convince the audience that you are scared IS acting. I, personally, think that while child actors often face challenges due to their atypical lives and celebrity, it usually is different than the sexualization of little girls in a variety venues - though not always, of course. In terms of figure skating and gymnastics, figure skating has done a much better job of keeping young teenage girls out of the Olympics. There are some, but they are the minority, and aren’t considered past their prime when they hit 18. And due to physical maturity timelines, in both figure skating and gymnastics male competitors tend to be adults. If adults - male and female - want to wear makeup, more power to them. I wanted to broaden the discussion to include other more socially accepted activities where we, as a society, seem much more comfortable with the exploitation of girls, given that posters were starting to list other types of child entertainment that they were avoiding. I don’t think that there are any easy answers. Child athletes may be driven, but exploitation also definitely happens (Bela Karoyli). And once the family has mortgaged the house to pay for lessons, fees, and equipment, and moved across the country to be closer to THE coach/studio, and mom or dad having to drive child to and from the studio/rink daily for years, etc., it becomes harder, I’m sure for parents to not exert some pressure (subtle or overt) for the child to follow through. But, their parents tend to be involved and supervise to some degree, unlike the girls in the film. The lack of parental involvement, leaving children on their own to navigate social media and the sexuality it rewards, being one of the main points of the film. And, I DO think that is a very important point to highlight. I strongly agree with your statement that I bolded! If you’re talking about me, I don’t think anything in the HP films is at all comparable to horror films. To me, a good indicator is if the movie is ok for kids to watch, it’s ok for kids to act in. Horror movies and Cuties - not at all ok for kids to watch. Harry Potter - ok for kids to watch. |
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
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Post by sassyangel on Sept 17, 2020 14:26:08 GMT
I think that’s an interesting observation on the effect of the French/English translation of the title. Translating it to *Cuties* has clearly not worked well here. It hasnt conveyed what it has in French (based on a poem that is very familiar to French people) at all, unfortunately. Clearly, you’re very fluently bilingual what kind of English title do you think would convey the French intent, bearing in mind people here don’t have a familiarity with the French poem? And I’m not sure there is an English equivalent. I do think it’s interesting this country is the one that has raised the most outrage about it. I’m of two minds about why that is. I haven’t watched the movie and don’t plan to. But I’m not sure why the need to mention “universal healthcare country” several times in this thread? I don’t think the concern is that the girls would have to pay for their mental health care if they needed it. The concern is (in part) that they may be exposed to something that would necessitate mental health care in the first place. I also don’t recall countdowns to Britney Spears turning 18? Also, just because something is seen as “ok” in one country doesn’t mean that it should be accepted everywhere. And vice versa. One culture is not necessarily better or “right”. That goes for a variety of issues, not just this movie. 🤔 I didn’t even refer to or mention almost half of the stuff you’re asking about. Regarding the being ok in one country doesn’t make it ok in others, that’s NOT what I said at all. I didn’t expound on *why* I found the difference in responses interesting - but I don’t think it’s fair to assume that’s what I meant either. Like I said, I’m of two minds about why they’ve reacted differently. One of the things those countries those don’t have, is the child pageant, cheer, dance cultures that are almost on level of importance with high school football here, especially in some areas. So they’re not as defensive off the bat, when stuff like this is shown. The other is the overall attitudes to more open discussion of sex in this country are different to those that haven’t reacted as strongly. It seems politicized, which also ties people’s reactions to that, and I’m not sure I’ve articulated my observations on that aspect properly. Now as you’ve said, that doesn’t necessarily make it right - but I wasn’t trying to say that it was more right, just that it’s clearly different. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 17, 2020 15:33:26 GMT
But, their parents tend to be involved and supervise to some degree, unlike the girls in the film. T he lack of parental involvement, leaving children on their own to navigate social media and the sexuality it rewards, being one of the main points of the film. And, I DO think that is a very important point to highlight. that's one of the main points of the FICTIONAL film, yes. I hope you weren't trying to say that the actresses in the film had little parental involvement, because from what I've read about the film, that's just not true. The actresses' parents were all onboard with the director in being against the 'no parental involvement, hypersexualization' culture that the film is trying to highlight. |
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Post by elaine on Sept 17, 2020 15:43:53 GMT
But, their parents tend to be involved and supervise to some degree, unlike the girls in the film. T he lack of parental involvement, leaving children on their own to navigate social media and the sexuality it rewards, being one of the main points of the film. And, I DO think that is a very important point to highlight. that's one of the main points of the FICTIONAL film, yes. I hope you weren't trying to say that the actresses in the film had little parental involvement, because from what I've read about the film, that's just not true. The actresses' parents were all onboard with the director in being against the 'no parental involvement, hypersexualization' culture that the film is trying to highlight. No, I wasn’t saying that the actresses weren’t being supervised, but that the girls they portrayed were - that that storyline was one of the main points of the film. I should have been more clear. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 17, 2020 15:49:33 GMT
ahhh- that's what I figured, but I wanted to make sure. thanks, elaine! |
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Post by mollycoddle on Sept 17, 2020 16:15:28 GMT
First, this is an ofshoot of the Qanon savethechildren bullshit that's making the rounds. Because the "left" and "hollywood" want to "normalize pedophilia". I think it's weird everyone is so outraged at the movie but not at the dance culture that is being shown in the movie. I have a friend whose daughter has been in some form of appearance based "sport" since she was 3. Pageants, dance, cheer. The girls in these competitions definitely have athletic chops, but that gets lost for me in the overly sexual dancing, the focus on appearance and the skimpy outfits. My friend and his wife have spent thousands (no college fund, btw) on their daughter's extracurriculars. They also spent a lot of money trying to turn their child into a star. She has had small parts on a couple of Disney and Nickelodeon shows. But suddenly. OMG. CUTIES IS NORMALIZING PEDOPHILIA HOLLYWOOD IS EVIL AND THEY ARE CANCELLING NETFLIX. When I asked my friend's wife if she understood that Cuties is a FICTIONAL movie about the REAL dance culture her daughter participates in, she told me that dancing isn't sexual and I must be a pedophile if I think it is. I would not watch this movie because I find the whole culture gross. It's so messed up to give young girls such a preoccupation with their bodies and appearances. It's disgusting to sexualize them and to expose them to things they shouldn't understand. And it's hypocritical AF to participate in that life and then cry about Cuties. Yes. I’m having trouble gathering my thoughts on this, but you summed it up nicely. |
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Post by kernriver on Sept 17, 2020 16:24:06 GMT
And it's hypocritical AF to participate in that life and then cry about Cuties. SO wondered why there wasn't any outrage directed at Toddlers & Tiaras, Dance Moms, and similar shows. That’s what I thought! |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 17, 2020 17:14:44 GMT
I haven’t watched the movie and don’t plan to. But I’m not sure why the need to mention “universal healthcare country” several times in this thread? I don’t think the concern is that the girls would have to pay for their mental health care if they needed it. The concern is (in part) that they may be exposed to something that would necessitate mental health care in the first place. I also don’t recall countdowns to Britney Spears turning 18? Also, just because something is seen as “ok” in one country doesn’t mean that it should be accepted everywhere. And vice versa. One culture is not necessarily better or “right”. That goes for a variety of issues, not just this movie. 🤔 I didn’t even refer to or mention almost half of the stuff you’re asking about. Regarding the being ok in one country doesn’t make it ok in others, that’s NOT what I said at all. I didn’t expound on *why* I found the difference in responses interesting - but I don’t think it’s fair to assume that’s what I meant either. Like I said, I’m of two minds about why they’ve reacted differently. One of the things those countries those don’t have, is the child pageant, cheer, dance cultures that are almost on level of importance with high school football here, especially in some areas. So they’re not as defensive off the bat, when stuff like this is shown. The other is the overall attitudes to more open discussion of sex in this country are different to those that haven’t reacted as strongly. It seems politicized, which also ties people’s reactions to that, and I’m not sure I’ve articulated my observations on that aspect properly. Now as you’ve said, that doesn’t necessarily make it right - but I wasn’t trying to say that it was more right, just that it’s clearly different. I was trying to quote sleepingbooty, not you. Not sure what went wrong there. |
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Post by pierogi on Sept 17, 2020 17:45:42 GMT
Just curious: the Harry Potter films, which have substantial portions that border on horror films used child actors. Are those films, at least the first 4 where the stars were under 16, also taboo? If not, why not? And what makes the level of exploitation of child actors not okay vs. okay in your eyes? One could make the case that to some degree, all child actors and singers and athletes are exploited. Do you watch the summer Olympics and cheer for the “women’s” gymnastic team which is composed of children? The children competing certainly wear a ton of makeup while competing in a sport for exploitative reasons. Eyeshadow and mascara don’t enhance one’s performance on the balance beam, it makes the children seem more mature and attractive to adults. Why is that okay, yet a movie meant to spark dialogue about the lengths children will sexualize themselves for approval should be boycotted? Even in sitcoms, child actors are removed from typical childhood lives, are heavily made up, and are served up as entertainment for adults. When is that okay and when is it not? It is interesting to me to discuss what people deem unacceptable while finding similar things okay. I would not consider gymnastics part of this discussion because I feel the focus of the sport is still on the athletic ability of the athletes. I am not sure how I feel about very young children being wholly devoted to any sport or entertainment career. I think these situations often create long term mental and/or physical issues for the children involved, but many of these children also want to pursue these interests. I believe in art and the importance of art. I'm against censorship. I'm having trouble squaring that with my disgust for the dance/pageant/child actor scene. While gymnastics routines aren't overtly sexual, the clubs are rife with sexual, psychological, emotional and physical abuse. Unethical coaches take on these svengali roles to their very young charges, and cow the parents into letting them take control of their children to "mold" them into champions. The Karolis would have these long training sessions for young elite gymnasts at a remote ranch in Texas, forbidding visits, phone calls, and any sort of contact with their parents/guardians that would "distract" the athletes. It was a perfect storm for someone like Nasser who digitally raped thousands of young girls there. He was caught, but there are so many more operating with impunity. The upper organizations who are supposed to be protecting these young people, only exist to protect themselves and the money they make off of their backs. I've met far more emotionally broken ex-gymnasts than I have child actors. I worry about child actors as well, but in my experience if their families are healthy and self-protective, they will be properly shielded from the pitfalls and dangers that trip up dysfunctional parents. In those cases, the child always pays the price. I'm with you on the pageants. Ugh. I know they're very popular in certain parts of the country, but I can't see them as anything but toxic. |
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Oct 7, 2020 0:18:27 GMT
Not wanting to just post an article and run...
I don't want to see any of that and I don't think any of it has anything to do with female empowerment. It's just gross.
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Post by myshelly on Oct 7, 2020 0:22:22 GMT
Of course it was Texas 🤣
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Oct 7, 2020 2:34:23 GMT
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what kind of English title do you think would convey the French intent, bearing in mind people here don’t have a familiarity with the French poem? And I’m not sure there is an English equivalent.
