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Post by myshelly on Sept 15, 2020 23:50:02 GMT
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Post by gryroagain on Sept 15, 2020 23:57:03 GMT
I cannot believe all the people who obviously didn’t watch the movie and are outraged. It’s AGAINST sexualizing children for Gods sake! In the movie, the main character is from an immigrant family with a super patriarchal culture, amd she sees the girls dancing and is intrigued. Because where women have no power in her culture these girls do, via dance. Of course she is attracted to it. The point of the movie is one cultural takes power from women in one way, and one culture only lets women have it if it’s sexual, and the whole thing is absolute crap and our little girls don’t get to be little girls. The final scene is her jump roping- the traditional dress for her fathers wedding to a second wife discarded, the sexy dance outfit discarded, just being a little girl jump roping at last without having to navigate the minefields of what society says a female person is and has to be.
It’s a beautiful, if sad, movie amd there is nothing exploitative of children in it except pointing out how we exploit them.
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 1:37:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 1:20:33 GMT
My issue is not the message. I just can’t believe that the little girls who were in the movie weren’t harmed in some way, no matter how many protections were in place. They’re not old enough to consent with full understanding. They still had to do sensual things with their little bodies, they still had to have to understand adult things, and their little bodies WILL be lusted at by people who watch the film for the wrong reasons. And there’s just no way to know if there will be psychological or emotional impact on the actresses until the damage has been done already.
To me, the message isn’t worth the risk to the girls in the film.
Now if they’d used adults who looked like adolescents, or they’d done a documentary or something else, the conversation would be different for me.
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grammanisi
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,741
Jun 26, 2014 1:37:37 GMT
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Post by grammanisi on Sept 16, 2020 1:50:37 GMT
My issue is not the message. I just can’t believe that the little girls who were in the movie weren’t harmed in some way, no matter how many protections were in place. They’re not old enough to consent with full understanding. They still had to do sensual things with their little bodies, they still had to have to understand adult things, and their little bodies WILL be lusted at by people who watch the film for the wrong reasons. And there’s just no way to know if there will be psychological or emotional impact on the actresses until the damage has been done already. To me, the message isn’t worth the risk to the girls in the film. Now if they’d used adults who looked like adolescents, or they’d done a documentary or something else, the conversation would be different for me. I agree. There's been an ongoing "discussion" on my Facebook feed about this, so I watched it today. One if my biggest issues were the camera angles and close ups.
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Post by myshelly on Sept 16, 2020 1:54:10 GMT
I cannot believe all the people who obviously didn’t watch the movie and are outraged. It’s AGAINST sexualizing children for Gods sake! In the movie, the main character is from an immigrant family with a super patriarchal culture, amd she sees the girls dancing and is intrigued. Because where women have no power in her culture these girls do, via dance. Of course she is attracted to it. The point of the movie is one cultural takes power from women in one way, and one culture only lets women have it if it’s sexual, and the whole thing is absolute crap and our little girls don’t get to be little girls. The final scene is her jump roping- the traditional dress for her fathers wedding to a second wife discarded, the sexy dance outfit discarded, just being a little girl jump roping at last without having to navigate the minefields of what society says a female person is and has to be. It’s a beautiful, if sad, movie amd there is nothing exploitative of children in it except pointing out how we exploit them. Do you have a response to what MissJen is saying about the child actors in the movie and what they would have had to do to film those scenes?
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 16, 2020 2:06:03 GMT
First, this is an ofshoot of the Qanon savethechildren bullshit that's making the rounds. Because the "left" and "hollywood" want to "normalize pedophilia".
I think it's weird everyone is so outraged at the movie but not at the dance culture that is being shown in the movie.
I have a friend whose daughter has been in some form of appearance based "sport" since she was 3. Pageants, dance, cheer. The girls in these competitions definitely have athletic chops, but that gets lost for me in the overly sexual dancing, the focus on appearance and the skimpy outfits. My friend and his wife have spent thousands (no college fund, btw) on their daughter's extracurriculars. They also spent a lot of money trying to turn their child into a star. She has had small parts on a couple of Disney and Nickelodeon shows.
But suddenly. OMG. CUTIES IS NORMALIZING PEDOPHILIA HOLLYWOOD IS EVIL AND THEY ARE CANCELLING NETFLIX. When I asked my friend's wife if she understood that Cuties is a FICTIONAL movie about the REAL dance culture her daughter participates in, she told me that dancing isn't sexual and I must be a pedophile if I think it is.
I would not watch this movie because I find the whole culture gross. It's so messed up to give young girls such a preoccupation with their bodies and appearances. It's disgusting to sexualize them and to expose them to things they shouldn't understand.
And it's hypocritical AF to participate in that life and then cry about Cuties.
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Post by myshelly on Sept 16, 2020 2:11:22 GMT
First, this is an ofshoot of the Qanon savethechildren bullshit that's making the rounds. Because the "left" and "hollywood" want to "normalize pedophilia". I think it's weird everyone is so outraged at the movie but not at the dance culture that is being shown in the movie. I have a friend whose daughter has been in some form of appearance based "sport" since she was 3. Pageants, dance, cheer. The girls in these competitions definitely have athletic chops, but that gets lost for me in the overly sexual dancing, the focus on appearance and the skimpy outfits. My friend and his wife have spent thousands (no college fund, btw) on their daughter's extracurriculars. They also spent a lot of money trying to turn their child into a star. She has had small parts on a couple of Disney and Nickelodeon shows. But suddenly. OMG. CUTIES IS NORMALIZING PEDOPHILIA AND THEY ARE CANCELLING NETFLIX. When I asked my friend's wife if she understood that Cuties is a FICTIONAL movie about the REAL dance culture her daughter participates in, she told me that dancing isn't sexual and I must be a pedophile if I think it is. I would not watch this movie because I find the whole culture gross. It's so messed up to give young girls such a preoccupation with their bodies and appearances. It's disgusting to sexualize them and to expose them to things they shouldn't understand. And it's hypocritical AF to participate in that life and then cry about Cuties. I don’t think it’s the dance scenes in the movie that are the main problem/most objectionable.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 16, 2020 2:13:16 GMT
First, this is an ofshoot of the Qanon savethechildren bullshit that's making the rounds. Because the "left" and "hollywood" want to "normalize pedophilia". I think it's weird everyone is so outraged at the movie but not at the dance culture that is being shown in the movie. I have a friend whose daughter has been in some form of appearance based "sport" since she was 3. Pageants, dance, cheer. The girls in these competitions definitely have athletic chops, but that gets lost for me in the overly sexual dancing, the focus on appearance and the skimpy outfits. My friend and his wife have spent thousands (no college fund, btw) on their daughter's extracurriculars. They also spent a lot of money trying to turn their child into a star. She has had small parts on a couple of Disney and Nickelodeon shows. But suddenly. OMG. CUTIES IS NORMALIZING PEDOPHILIA AND THEY ARE CANCELLING NETFLIX. When I asked my friend's wife if she understood that Cuties is a FICTIONAL movie about the REAL dance culture her daughter participates in, she told me that dancing isn't sexual and I must be a pedophile if I think it is. I would not watch this movie because I find the whole culture gross. It's so messed up to give young girls such a preoccupation with their bodies and appearances. It's disgusting to sexualize them and to expose them to things they shouldn't understand. And it's hypocritical AF to participate in that life and then cry about Cuties. I don’t think it’s the dance scenes in the movie that are the main problem/most objectionable. The movie is about a culture that perpetuates the sexualization of children. From what I understand, it depicts children in grossly inappropriate sexual ways. I don't think these are two separate issues. Condemn Cuties, sure, but then society needs to turn that outrage right back on itself and examine the REAL ways in which REAL children are victimized and sexualized. It's a lot easier to cry about Netflix and the left than it is to admit that you've participated in a culture that you are now condemning. (And "you" is directed at these people in particular, not you personally. Kind of a universal "you".)
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Post by Eddie-n-Harley on Sept 16, 2020 2:18:36 GMT
And it's hypocritical AF to participate in that life and then cry about Cuties. SO wondered why there wasn't any outrage directed at Toddlers & Tiaras, Dance Moms, and similar shows.
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 1:37:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 4:39:11 GMT
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Post by gryroagain on Sept 16, 2020 5:54:28 GMT
The child actors are just that- actors. Damn good ones, too. I think it is vastly different to be playing a role than to be dancing like those “single ladies” girls, in terms of harm.
Child actors in certain roles has been an ongoing controversy I’m not sure I have the answer for. But they are actors, acting, and to me that makes a huge difference.
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 1:37:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 6:56:26 GMT
The child actors are just that- actors. Damn good ones, too. I think it is vastly different to be playing a role than to be dancing like those “single ladies” girls, in terms of harm. Child actors in certain roles has been an ongoing controversy I’m not sure I have the answer for. But they are actors, acting, and to me that makes a huge difference. Honest question: pervs will jack off to these little girl actors. They will be fantasized about, mentally undressed, and more/worse. As they grow older, those same pervs will follow their careers and their bodies with their thoughts and attention. Are the girls victims in this case? To me, they are. That makes it not worth doing, IMO.
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Post by Merge on Sept 16, 2020 12:58:41 GMT
The child actors are just that- actors. Damn good ones, too. I think it is vastly different to be playing a role than to be dancing like those “single ladies” girls, in terms of harm. Child actors in certain roles has been an ongoing controversy I’m not sure I have the answer for. But they are actors, acting, and to me that makes a huge difference. Honest question: pervs will jack off to these little girl actors. They will be fantasized about, mentally undressed, and more/worse. As they grow older, those same pervs will follow their careers and their bodies with their thoughts and attention. Are the girls victims in this case? To me, they are. That makes it not worth doing, IMO. Don’t you think pervs will jack off to images of kids wherever they can find them? Should we ban minors from appearing onscreen in any form or fashion? I haven’t seen this film and I don’t plan to, but my first thought when Ted Cruz posted about it was that he needs to look a lot harder at the dance and cheer culture for little girls in his own state. One of the reasons my oldest didn’t go into the competitive team (besides the outrageous cost) was my discomfort with the outfits and highly sexualized moves that coaches say are required to win. Nobody currently trying to virtue signal by boycotting Netflix - ie, a network that features a lot of liberal talk show hosts and comedians - seems too worked up about something that’s been going on under their noses for decades.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,940
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Sept 16, 2020 13:10:24 GMT
Have these people looked at the dance studios in their towns?
In 2009 I went to a dance recital with my daughter to support her friends and I was absolutely appalled at what I saw - 11 years ago! Bootie shorts, teeny tiny tops, bumping, grinding...seriously, I'm still astounded and recall looking around the recital hall at the grandparents and parents and younger siblings wondering what they were all thinking.
If people think this is anything new or different than is happening in their towns, they're delusional. The videos are all over Youtube. A "perv" only needs to go there and doesn't need a Netflix subscription to see more.
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Post by beepdave on Sept 16, 2020 13:15:35 GMT
themighty.com/2020/09/sexual-abuse-survivor-review-of-cuties/linkI read this article last night and it gave more information, like that there was a psychologist on hand for the girls. (I have not watched the film.) "Before I weigh in on the film itself, I’d like to mention that aside from being a survivor of sexual abuse and fierce advocate for body safety and age appropriate sexual education, I am also a survivor of cultural objectification of women by a highly patriarchal Hungarian family of women. Additionally, I was a competitive dancer for most of my teens and early 20s, I have a bachelors degree in French and I did my semester abroad in Paris so I tend to have a slight bias toward French film and media. As such, here is my take on the film and controversy. The film itself is a thought-provoking piece that at its heart delves into the dangers of social media to children. But it’s much more than that. The film deals with everything from bullying to religious and cultural patriarchy to the difficulties of discovering ones femininity and power in a world where we seldom have healthy or meaningful conversations about what it means to be a woman. I found myself riveted by the acting, the story and the message even if at times it was downright uncomfortable to watch. From the beginning to the end, the one through line I found to be most disturbing was the utter lack of parental supervision in the lives of these girls. If there is one thing I feel the movie highlights most importantly, it is that children can not discern right from wrong when it comes to social media. All they see is what is popular, and as we all know, being “liked” is so important to teens that they will often do anything to feel like they belong. If parents are uninvolved or unaware of what their children are doing on their phones, there is no safety net in place to keep these kids from acting out of their impulsive need to be accepted. Another theme that evolves throughout the film is the degree to which Amy, the lead girl, is feeling trapped between two no-win situations. On the one hand, her home environment is a polygamous Muslim family where once a girl gets her period she is considered to be an adult and told by her aunt that at her age she was married and having children. (Since when are 11 year olds mature enough to have children and husbands?) Yet at school, if she wants to fit in, she feels like she has to dress and act in a more grown up, hyper sexualized way, even going as far as posting a photo of her private parts on social media because the school kids teased her for her girlie underwear. The abused little girl inside of me who felt as though she was being objectified and primed to be an eligible “sexy” wife for a future husband fully resonated with this child, and it was quite heart wrenching to watch. But let’s get to the heart of the debate surrounding this film — the dancing. Many believe that by having these girls dance in the way they do, these girls are being exploited and therefore the point of the movie is invalidated. Is the dancing far too mature and vulgar for 11-year-old girls? Yes. Is it hard to watch? Absolutely. But… I don’t believe the story would work without the girls actually learning the routine and performing it to a horrified audience (and this particular plot line is based on the lived experience of the director, which is where the idea for the film emerged). Witnessing the awkward evolution of the girls’ dance routine based upon a viral video they see on social media is vital to the story. I can tell you from personal experience that what they do in their dance routine is not all that shocking when compared with anything I’ve seen on reality TV dance shows or at high school half time shows. This type of dance has become far too normalized — and I believe that is exactly the point the movie is making by shocking the viewer with the movement coming from such young bodies. These children have no idea what the movement means. They aren’t asking to be abused, used or objectified. They just want to win. If a responsible adult had been present to guide them, the routine could have been tempered into something less blatant and more age appropriate, which again comes back to the overarching message of the movie, children cannot exist in a vacuum, they need competent and involved caregivers. And one final point I’d like to make are about the concerns of these actresses being exploited. As much as we don’t want to believe it, girls this age are sometimes already involved in things like sexting and posting hyper sexualized videos of themselves on social media platforms without the supervision of an adult. In this case, these actresses were not only supervised, but were engaging in the creation of a meaningful dialogue about why this behavior is unacceptable and dangerous. Additionally, the director hired a psychologist to be on the set with the girls to make sure that they were being cared for and had the support they needed. That is not exploitative but rather instructive. And in the grand scheme of things, these young women have been given an opportunity to define for themselves why the exploitation of girls and women is problematic. They have in effect taken back the power and the narrative for themselves of what it means to be feminine. Should you watch? I’d issue a strong trigger warning because it is difficult to watch and potentially activating. But, if you are interested in seeing something thought provoking I’d highly recommend it. It is unsuitable for younger audiences and it should be viewed through a social justice lens."
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Post by elaine on Sept 16, 2020 13:25:10 GMT
themighty.com/2020/09/sexual-abuse-survivor-review-of-cuties/linkI read this article last night and it gave more information, like that there was a psychologist on hand for the girls. (I have not watched the film.) ..... And one final point I’d like to make are about the concerns of these actresses being exploited. As much as we don’t want to believe it, girls this age are sometimes already involved in things like sexting and posting hyper sexualized videos of themselves on social media platforms without the supervision of an adult. In this case, these actresses were not only supervised, but were engaging in the creation of a meaningful dialogue about why this behavior is unacceptable and dangerous. Additionally, the director hired a psychologist to be on the set with the girls to make sure that they were being cared for and had the support they needed. That is not exploitative but rather instructive. And in the grand scheme of things, these young women have been given an opportunity to define for themselves why the exploitation of girls and women is problematic. They have in effect taken back the power and the narrative for themselves of what it means to be feminine. Should you watch? I’d issue a strong trigger warning because it is difficult to watch and potentially activating. But, if you are interested in seeing something thought provoking I’d highly recommend it. It is unsuitable for younger audiences and it should be viewed through a social justice lens." That was a great thought-provoking read - thanks for sharing. Another voice here chiming in to say that this type of dancing by little absolutely happens all over the USA. If Ted Cruz is so concerned about sexualized dancing/cheering by young girls, he has plenty of opportunity to address it in his own state.
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Post by aprilfay21 on Sept 16, 2020 14:09:43 GMT
My question is, were you equally outraged during The Exorcist or Taxi Driver? Pretty Baby, Blue Lagoon, or Leon:The Professional? What about Lolita, Kickass, or Thirteen? Cuties and Thirteen, at least, had thought provoking storylines.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,069
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Sept 16, 2020 14:30:19 GMT
The child actors are just that- actors. Damn good ones, too. I think it is vastly different to be playing a role than to be dancing like those “single ladies” girls, in terms of harm. Child actors in certain roles has been an ongoing controversy I’m not sure I have the answer for. But they are actors, acting, and to me that makes a huge difference. I’ve not watched it and probably won’t. Can you confirm, this is a movie with actors. From everything I’ve heard I thought this was a documentary following real children. Like others have said, people should be outraged by the real life pageant and dance crap that is occurring in every town in the US and has had several “reality” show about it.
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Post by aprilfay21 on Sept 16, 2020 14:35:14 GMT
The child actors are just that- actors. Damn good ones, too. I think it is vastly different to be playing a role than to be dancing like those “single ladies” girls, in terms of harm. Child actors in certain roles has been an ongoing controversy I’m not sure I have the answer for. But they are actors, acting, and to me that makes a huge difference. I’ve not watched it and probably won’t. Can you confirm, this is a movie with actors. From everything I’ve heard I thought this was a documentary following real children. Like others have said, people should be outraged by the real life pageant and dance crap that is occurring in every town in the US and has had several “reality” show about it. It's not a documentary. Maybe loosely based on real life but it's fiction.
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 1:37:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 14:36:44 GMT
The child actors are just that- actors. Damn good ones, too. I think it is vastly different to be playing a role than to be dancing like those “single ladies” girls, in terms of harm. Child actors in certain roles has been an ongoing controversy I’m not sure I have the answer for. But they are actors, acting, and to me that makes a huge difference. Honest question: pervs will jack off to these little girl actors. They will be fantasized about, mentally undressed, and more/worse. As they grow older, those same pervs will follow their careers and their bodies with their thoughts and attention. Are the girls victims in this case? To me, they are. That makes it not worth doing, IMO. Honest question: Will pervs "jack off" to the dance images like the ones I placed above from legit 'Dance' competitions? Where has this concern been for the past 2 decades?!?!?! ps - Pervs will "jack off" to anything. The solution is not to suit society to their perversity. It is to decide what we want society to be. I DON'T want society to be the over-sexualization of children - esp. girls! IN ANY FORM! PERIOD.
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Post by peano on Sept 16, 2020 14:37:50 GMT
I haven't watched it, and I don't weigh in on things I haven't witnessed with my own eyes. But here's the filmmaker's editorial in the WaPo today: linkMaïmouna Doucouré is a director and writer. I was at a community event in Paris a few years ago when a group of young girls came on the stage dressed and dancing in a very risque way. They were only 11 years old, and their performance was shocking. Curious to understand what was happening on that platform, I spent the next year and a half interviewing more than a hundred 10- and 11-year-old girls across the city. The result was my movie "Mignonnes," or "Cuties" in English. I wanted to make a film in the hope of starting a conversation about the sexualization of children. The movie has certainly started a debate, though not the one that I intended. Puberty is such a confusing time. You are still a child, with all that wonderful naivete and innocence, but your body is changing, and you're self-conscious and curious about its impact on others all at the same time. The stories that the girls I spoke to shared with me were remarkably similar. They saw that the sexier a woman is on Instagram or TikTok, the more likes she gets. They tried to imitate that sexuality in the belief that it would make them more popular. Spend an hour on social media and you'll see preteens — often in makeup — pouting their lips and strutting their stuff as if they were grown women. The problem, of course, is that they are not women, and they don't realize what they are doing. They construct their self-esteem based on social media likes and the number of followers they have. To see these youngsters put so much pressure on themselves so early was heartbreaking. Their insights and experiences with social media informed "Cuties." The main character in the film is an 11-year-old girl called Amy whose family, like mine, came from Senegal and lives in Paris. Frustrated by her mother's failure to take control of her own life, Amy decides to seek freedom by joining a clique of girls at school who are preparing to enter a local dance contest and design increasingly risque routines copying what they've seen on their phones. The girls don't have the maturity, however, to realize what their gestures and dance moves look like to the audience. It is only in seeing the shock on parents' faces in the audience, and at the same time thinking of what her mother is going through, that Amy realizes that these dance routines bring no freedom at all. She chooses her own path, balancing her family's traditional roots and the more liberal city in which she lives. Some people have found certain scenes in my film uncomfortable to watch. But if one really listens to 11-year-old girls, their lives are uncomfortable. We, as adults, have not given children the tools to grow up healthy in our society. I wanted to open people's eyes to what's truly happening in schools and on social media, forcing them to confront images of young girls made up, dressed up and dancing suggestively to imitate their favorite pop icon. I wanted adults to spend 96 minutes seeing the world through the eyes of an 11-year-old girl, as she lives 24 hours a day. These scenes can be hard to watch but are no less true as a result. Like most 11- and 12-year-olds, our actors in the film had already seen these types of dances and more. Despite this, during filming we were extremely mindful of their age. A trained counselor was present on set. There was no nudity except for a one-second shot in which the main characters see the exposed breast of an actress over 18 while watching a video of a dance routine on a grainy mobile screen. The project was even approved by the French government's child protection authorities. This film is my own story. All my life, I have juggled two cultures: Senegalese and French. As a result, people often ask me about the oppression of women in more traditional societies. And I always ask: But isn't the objectification of women's bodies in Western Europe and the United States another kind of oppression? When girls feel so judged at such a young age, how much freedom will they ever truly have in life? And that's why I made "Cuties": to start a debate about the sexualization of children in society today so that maybe — just maybe — politicians, artists, parents and educators could work together to make a change that will benefit children for generations to come. It's my sincerest hope that this conversation doesn't become so difficult that it too gets caught up in today's "cancel culture."
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Sept 16, 2020 14:52:56 GMT
I only know what I’ve read in this thread about the movie and ensuing outrage, but I’ll offer this:
Twenty-three (!) years ago, I pulled my five year-old out of a dance school for two reasons:
1. I returned early one day and the girls were gleefully processing around with white chiffon scarves on their heads to “Here Comes the Bride.” Apparently, it was something they did in all the youngin’ classes when they had a couple minutes to kill.
2. At the culminating recital, the dances of the only-slightly-older girls were gallingly sexualized. And I know it’s gotten much, MUCH worse since then.
Bride or stripper. Those were the choices. Plays right into the “Madonna whore” dichotomy.
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Post by myshelly on Sept 16, 2020 15:02:12 GMT
The child actors are just that- actors. Damn good ones, too. I think it is vastly different to be playing a role than to be dancing like those “single ladies” girls, in terms of harm. Child actors in certain roles has been an ongoing controversy I’m not sure I have the answer for. But they are actors, acting, and to me that makes a huge difference. Honest question: pervs will jack off to these little girl actors. They will be fantasized about, mentally undressed, and more/worse. As they grow older, those same pervs will follow their careers and their bodies with their thoughts and attention. Are the girls victims in this case? To me, they are. That makes it not worth doing, IMO. I don’t think this is a good argument. People (not just pervs) will Jack off to anything. Doesn’t make the person in the picture or the fantasy a victim. People could use this argument against literally every picture and every movie in existence. It’s silly. There needs to be some actual harm or actual action to the person in real life to be a victim. In this particular movie, you can argue there was actual harm to the actors while filming. The movie even hired a psychologist to counsel the girls on set. Why do you need a hypothetical fantasy harm argument if there is actual real harm?
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 1:37:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 15:09:04 GMT
Honest question: pervs will jack off to these little girl actors. They will be fantasized about, mentally undressed, and more/worse. As they grow older, those same pervs will follow their careers and their bodies with their thoughts and attention. Are the girls victims in this case? To me, they are. That makes it not worth doing, IMO. I don’t think this is a good argument. People (not just pervs) will Jack off to anything. Doesn’t make the person in the picture or the fantasy a victim. People could use this argument against literally every picture and every movie in existence. It’s silly. There needs to be some actual harm or actual action to the person in real life to be a victim. In this particular movie, you can argue there was actual harm to the actors while filming. The movie even hired a psychologist to counsel the girls on set. Why do you need a hypothetical fantasy harm argument if there is actual real harm? You make some good points. I believe there is actual real harm but I also believe there is risk elevation. Sure, pervs will get off on anything but this seems like handing them ammunition. But you’re right, it’s not as strong of an argument. I do maintain my initial position that the strongest argument about actual harm to the actors caused by filming.
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Post by auntkelly on Sept 16, 2020 15:12:13 GMT
It was a hard show to watch.
I agree w/ those who said the biggest problem in those girls' lives was a lack of parental supervision.
Sadly, I think for every adult who watches the movie and says "maybe I should have a talk w/ my daughter's dance instructor about those costumes she ordered for the competition," there will be two adolescent girls who watch the movie w/out any parental supervision just to learn the dance moves the girls were performing.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 16, 2020 15:25:56 GMT
I think the sexualization of girls is a huge problem and the dance world and social media absolutely drive horrific behavior and have for decades. I pulled my daughter from her first dance studio after the end of year recital when she was 6 and put her in a ballet only studio as there was no way she was going to learn the routines they were displaying for the barely older girls. Ballet has it's own challenges and problems, but this type of dancing was never part of her routines through high school. I haven't seen the movie and am concerned that in trying to raise awareness they may have done additional harm - but as I said I haven't seen it. I do hope that all of the people cancelling Netflix are taking a good hard look at the real players pushing these behaviors.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 16, 2020 15:29:40 GMT
Honest question: pervs will jack off to these little girl actors . They will be fantasized about, mentally undressed, and more/worse. As they grow older, those same pervs will follow their careers and their bodies with their thoughts and attention. Are the girls victims in this case? To me, they are. That makes it not worth doing, IMO. you don't think those same 'pervs' don't find reruns of Toddlers in Tiaras, or dance competition videos posted by proud moms on YouTube to jack off to?!? if you think this movie is the problem and not the culture depicted IN the movie, then you're stupid. We, as adults, have not given children the tools to grow up healthy in our society. I wanted to open people's eyes to what's truly happening in schools and on social media, forcing them to confront images of young girls made up, dressed up and dancing suggestively to imitate their favorite pop icon. I wanted adults to spend 96 minutes seeing the world through the eyes of an 11-year-old girl, as she lives 24 hours a day. These scenes can be hard to watch but are no less true as a result. ^^^ I should have just let the film's creator speak for herself. I haven't seen the movie, but it sounds like a wonderfully done movie that's gotten its point across-- and that people are sticking their heads in the sand about its ACTUAL message. Nothing like killing the messenger instead of going after the root cause of the message...
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,940
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Sept 16, 2020 15:42:32 GMT
I only know what I’ve read in this thread about the movie and ensuing outrage, but I’ll offer this: Twenty-three (!) years ago, I pulled my five year-old out of a dance school for two reasons: 1. I returned early one day and the girls were gleefully processing around with white chiffon scarves on their heads to “Here Comes the Bride.” Apparently, it was something they did in all the youngin’ classes when they had a couple minutes to kill. 2. At the culminating recital, the dances of the only-slightly-older girls were gallingly sexualized. And I know it’s gotten much, MUCH worse since then. Bride or stripper. Those were the choices. Plays right into the “Madonna whore” dichotomy. After I watched my daughter's friends' recital, I found a dance studio for my kids where the teacher's views aligned with mine. Nothing suggestive, nothing sexual, nothing "adult." My belief system raising my girls was always that people have such a short time to be kids and such a long time to be adults. I refused to let anyone rush them through their childhood.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 16, 2020 15:44:58 GMT
The child actors are just that- actors. Damn good ones, too. I think it is vastly different to be playing a role than to be dancing like those “single ladies” girls, in terms of harm. Child actors in certain roles has been an ongoing controversy I’m not sure I have the answer for. But they are actors, acting, and to me that makes a huge difference. I’ve not watched it and probably won’t. Can you confirm, this is a movie with actors. From everything I’ve heard I thought this was a documentary following real children. Like others have said, people should be outraged by the real life pageant and dance crap that is occurring in every town in the US and has had several “reality” show about it. This is a fictional movie.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Sept 16, 2020 16:38:58 GMT
I've listened to enough commentary to know I will never watch this. It's the equivalent of soft porn, only with kids. I think some of the routines on Dance Moms were similarly sexual, and I find it beyond inappropriate.
If they really wanted to make this movie, they should have used actors over the age of 18. And that still doesn't change the fact that it's a deplorable subject matter. One that deserves documentaries, not a scripted film that I'm sure a lot of pedophiles will think is just great.
Yuck.
And yes, of the other movies mentioned that I'd seen, I did have major issues with them. I think casting an 11 year old (she turned 12 during filming) was an enormous mistake, and I'd never let my daughters do that film at a young age. In Lolita,Dominique Swain was 15. Yes, I was very much against that too.
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