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Post by Merge on Nov 10, 2020 15:35:26 GMT
www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/More-refinery-closures-coming-due-to-COVID-15715589.phpI don’t think there’s a paywall unless you’ve already read your three free articles. Multiple refineries expected to close. Coronavirus is speeding up what was an inevitable drawdown in the oil and gas sector anyway. This is BAD for Houston and Texas, and has nothing to do with who sits in the White House. We need to be retraining these folks for other jobs as quickly as possible - and that’s an area where federal and state leaders can and should work together.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 10, 2020 15:54:54 GMT
Guess I'm not helping much. Last month I put $10.00 worth of gas in my car. First gas purchase since the begining of April or there abouts. NOT that I drive a lot anyway, car is 13 yrs old, under 40,000 miles
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Post by freecharlie on Nov 11, 2020 3:20:11 GMT
Oil and gas drives a lot of Colorado's ecomony.
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Post by cindyupnorth on Nov 11, 2020 3:53:25 GMT
Republicans will be all over this with increased gas prices they predicted if Biden won. It won’t matter the causes they have. It will allll be because of Biden. I can hear it already their “told ya so’s and now it begins “ rants. Ugh
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Deleted
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Jun 26, 2024 7:17:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 10:21:24 GMT
www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/More-refinery-closures-coming-due-to-COVID-15715589.phpI don’t think there’s a paywall unless you’ve already read your three free articles. Multiple refineries expected to close. Coronavirus is speeding up what was an inevitable drawdown in the oil and gas sector anyway. This is BAD for Houston and Texas, and has nothing to do with who sits in the White House. We need to be retraining these folks for other jobs as quickly as possible - and that’s an area where federal and state leaders can and should work together.  Take BP as an example and see what they were doing even before the Coronavirus hit. People working in the Oil industry need to accept that the oil industry everywhere, as we know it now, is on borrowed time. Just like technology took over jobs years ago. BP renewable energy |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 14:49:07 GMT
Fossil fuels are dying. Investment banks know this. Investors know this. It is a matter of time - a long time - 10-30 years - but it will happen. Oil will be relegated to jet fuel, industrial uses and plastics/petro-chemicals. About half of current demand. The world changes. Stables and horse groomers went out of business at the advent of the car. Refineries and oil field workers will go out of business at the advent of the energy transition. The idea is to move as much energy as possible to electricity over fossil fuels (cars, heating, cooking etc) and then make the electricity as green as possible by minimizing fossil fuels in the power mix. Here is an example from India  about.bnef.com/blog/bnef-executive-forum-future-energy-mobility-india/ |
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Post by Merge on Nov 11, 2020 14:53:09 GMT
Fossil fuels are dying. Investment banks know this. Investors know this. It is a matter of time - a long time - 10-30 years - but it will happen. Oil will be relegated to jet fuel, industrial uses and plastics/petro-chemicals. About half of current demand. The world changes. Stables and horse groomers went out of business at the advent of the car. Refineries and oil field workers will go out of business at the advent of the energy transition. The idea is to move as much energy as possible to electricity over fossil fuels (cars, heating, cooking etc) and then make the electricity as green as possible by minimizing fossil fuels in the power mix. Here is an example from India about.bnef.com/blog/bnef-executive-forum-future-energy-mobility-india/Yes, but we have to make sure the displaced workers are trained for new jobs. The world is not what it what once, and jobs that pay a living wage require some training. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 11, 2020 14:56:28 GMT
Wouldn't paying for them to learn a new trade be considered socialism by R standards?
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Deleted
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Jun 26, 2024 7:17:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 14:58:45 GMT
Yes, but we have to make sure the displaced workers are trained for new jobs. The world is not what it what once, and jobs that pay a living wage require some training. I bang on about this almost daily. That's what we can do if we access a small % of the trillions resting in the bloated hands of the engorged m/billionaires who sit on 80% of the wealth of this nation. |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
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Post by pinklady on Nov 11, 2020 15:06:27 GMT
Republicans will be all over this with increased gas prices they predicted if Biden won. That would mean the piece of shit republicans would need to acknowledge Biden won. Can’t have it both ways. |
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Post by Merge on Nov 11, 2020 15:34:42 GMT
Wouldn't paying for them to learn a new trade be considered socialism by R standards? Totally, but propping up a dying industry with the same tax dollars is totes cool capitalism. 🙄 |
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by iowgirl on Nov 11, 2020 16:15:53 GMT
Yes, but we have to make sure the displaced workers are trained for new jobs. The world is not what it what once, and jobs that pay a living wage require some training. That sounds so easy - but what jobs would there be? I can understand why people are upset at the loss of their livelihood. It won't be an easy transition and it won't be as simple as training for a new job, where there are no jobs to be had. |
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Post by Merge on Nov 11, 2020 16:28:13 GMT
Yes, but we have to make sure the displaced workers are trained for new jobs. The world is not what it what once, and jobs that pay a living wage require some training. That sounds so easy - but what jobs would there be? I can understand why people are upset at the loss of their livelihood. It won't be an easy transition and it won't be as simple as training for a new job, where there are no jobs to be had. I would think there could be jobs in green energy. There would have to be a concerted effort to incentivize companies to create jobs in areas where other jobs are going away. There are also lots of open jobs in healthcare. Obviously none of this happens like a light switch turning on. It takes time and planning. Everyone understands why people are upset at losing their livelihoods. But does it make more sense to keep paying them to refine oil that won’t be used, or does it make more sense long term to transition them into jobs and industries with a future? |
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Post by sabrinae on Nov 11, 2020 17:51:03 GMT
Yes, but we have to make sure the displaced workers are trained for new jobs. The world is not what it what once, and jobs that pay a living wage require some training. That sounds so easy - but what jobs would there be? I can understand why people are upset at the loss of their livelihood. It won't be an easy transition and it won't be as simple as training for a new job, where there are no jobs to be had. There will be new jobs. There always are. People have to be willing to train for those new jobs and they have to be willing to move. Green energy is one of the fastest growing job sectors. Other areas of the economy can’t find enough trained labor. People have to be willing to change. |
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by iowgirl on Nov 11, 2020 17:54:00 GMT
I would think there could be jobs in green energy. Green energy does not need anywhere near the workforce that fossil fuels need. There are also lots of open jobs in healthcare. Definitely - but other than a Doctor or Nurse type of field - the other positions like CNA's do not pay well at all. Back breaking work for barely over minimum wage (in the example of those working at Nursing Homes, etc.) I think the fossil fuel industry has been artificially propped up for a long time. The crash will be very painful. |
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Post by NanaKate on Nov 11, 2020 17:54:54 GMT
Republicans will be all over this with increased gas prices they predicted if Biden won. That would mean the piece of shit republicans would need to acknowledge Biden won. Can’t have it both ways. Wow. “piece of shit Republicans.” I think I’m done for the day... |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,617
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Post by pinklady on Nov 11, 2020 18:08:35 GMT
That would mean the piece of shit republicans would need to acknowledge Biden won. Can’t have it both ways. Wow. “piece of shit Republicans.” I think I’m done for the day... Buh Bye |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 11, 2020 19:29:17 GMT
Wow. “piece of shit Republicans.” I think I’m done for the day... Buh Bye if they aren't recognizing the election results as valid, then they ARE piece of shit Republicans. I agree. |
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Deleted
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Jun 26, 2024 7:17:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 20:02:27 GMT
Green energy does not need anywhere near the workforce that fossil fuels need. You have been misinformed. "The renewable energy industry has become a major U.S. employer. E2’s recent Clean Jobs America report found nearly 3.3 million Americans working in clean energy – outnumbering fossil fuel workers by 3-to-1. Nearly 335,000 people work in the solar industry and more than 111,000 work in the wind industry, compared to 211,000 working in coal mining or other fossil fuel extraction. Clean energy employment grew 3.6% in 2018, adding 110,000 net new jobs (4.2% of all jobs added nationally in 2018), and employers expect 6% job growth in 2019." www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2019/04/22/renewable-energy-job-boom-creating-economic-opportunity-as-coal-industry-slumps/ |
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Post by Merge on Nov 11, 2020 20:48:05 GMT
I would think there could be jobs in green energy. Green energy does not need anywhere near the workforce that fossil fuels need. There are also lots of open jobs in healthcare. Definitely - but other than a Doctor or Nurse type of field - the other positions like CNA's do not pay well at all. Back breaking work for barely over minimum wage (in the example of those working at Nursing Homes, etc.) I think the fossil fuel industry has been artificially propped up for a long time. The crash will be very painful. X Ray techs, radiology techs, surgical techs, phlebotomists, and a variety of other jobs pay reasonably well relative to the amount of training required. We also need more people entering the skilled trades - plumbers and mechanics can make very good money. Green energy will need more people as the industry grows, but you're correct that there's nothing to pull out of the ground and refine. We cannot approach this with a defeatist attitude, though. It amazes me that the supposed party of self reliance and bootstraps wants to prop up dying industries rather than putting people to legitimate work. tl;dr: many oil gas jobs are going away whether we like it or not. It's up to us as a country to choose how we deal with that. We can be fatalist, or we can be forward-thinking. I know what I choose. |
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by iowgirl on Nov 12, 2020 13:50:56 GMT
We also need more people entering the skilled trades - plumbers and mechanics can make very good money. Yes on this! We are in a great shortage of those skilled trades in my area! I do not know a great deal about the solar industry, and I hope their are plenty of jobs that can actually pay a living wage and beyond that. I am more familiar with the wind industry, and I know it has some great jobs, but many of these are contract type employment and may be great for a year or two, but then nothing after that. I am also seeing some sad stuff with the wind energy in my area. They are replacing all the blades on some of the older windmills with larger blades. The old blades are hauled to one landfill and crushed and buried. I guess once they are covered over with dirt, we will forget about them? Hopefully nothing leeches into the ground water from them. There have also been 3 incidences recently where the new blades have come apart during operation and it is quite catastrophic. Luckily no one was nearby, but that would not be impossible. They are in the middle of crop fields, and people do have to work and harvest that ground. I am also seen some friends dealing with the 'shadowing' from the windmills. The blades cause a continuous 'blink' of shadow for a fair amount of time each day. It is worse now, as the sun is lower across the sky. Can you imagine a constant blink blink blink of light/shadow. The windmills are not on their land and they get no monetary compensation from them. I can understand their problem, and although wind energy surrounds me, it is not close enough for that issue. I do see the constant blink of red at night though. |
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Deleted
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Jun 26, 2024 7:17:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 14:30:29 GMT
We also need more people entering the skilled trades - plumbers and mechanics can make very good money. Yes on this! We are in a great shortage of those skilled trades in my area! I do not know a great deal about the solar industry, and I hope their are plenty of jobs that can actually pay a living wage and beyond that. I am more familiar with the wind industry, and I know it has some great jobs, but many of these are contract type employment and may be great for a year or two, but then nothing after that. I am also seeing some sad stuff with the wind energy in my area. They are replacing all the blades on some of the older windmills with larger blades. The old blades are hauled to one landfill and crushed and buried. I guess once they are covered over with dirt, we will forget about them? Hopefully nothing leeches into the ground water from them. There have also been 3 incidences recently where the new blades have come apart during operation and it is quite catastrophic. Luckily no one was nearby, but that would not be impossible. They are in the middle of crop fields, and people do have to work and harvest that ground. I am also seen some friends dealing with the 'shadowing' from the windmills. The blades cause a continuous 'blink' of shadow for a fair amount of time each day. It is worse now, as the sun is lower across the sky. Can you imagine a constant blink blink blink of light/shadow. The windmills are not on their land and they get no monetary compensation from them. I can understand their problem, and although wind energy surrounds me, it is not close enough for that issue. I do see the constant blink of red at night though. All technology has downsides. Coal has coal ash pits that can and HAS leached into groundwater. Fracking injects dangerous chemicals into the ground to get the gas up. Flaring from gas extraction releases methane pollution. Not to mention the absolutely disastrous oil spills in the gulf, in Alaska, etc. Refinery explosions and fires along the gulf coast. Not to mention the CO2 that is the main danger of what we need to curb by using renewables instead of fossil fuels.  Just because we don't think about the downsides in coal, oil, nat gas, etc. doesn't mean they don't have many, many serious issues. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 14:53:29 GMT
I am also seen some friends dealing with the 'shadowing' from the windmills. The blades cause a continuous 'blink' of shadow for a fair amount of time each day. It is worse now, as the sun is lower across the sky. Can you imagine a constant blink blink blink of light/shadow. The windmills are not on their land and they get no monetary compensation from them. I can understand their problem, and although wind energy surrounds me, it is not close enough for that issue. I do see the constant blink of red at night though. Off to google this, but, honestly this would drive me insane. I would have to stay indoors with the shades drawn. We all know they injure migrating birds by the thousands yearly. "Shadow flicker permitting Shadow flicker describes the shadows cast by moving wind turbine blades on sunny days. Shadow flicker analysis is performed through computer-based mapping and modeling and is highly predictable. General setback requirements are typically enough to mitigate the shadow flicker annoyance. However, some jurisdictions choose to separately regulate shadow flicker. For example, an ordinance could limit shadow flicker to nonparticipating occupied buildings to a set number of hours per year. Shadow flicker, when it does occur, typically lasts just a few minutes near sunrise or sunset and only occurs at certain times of the year, as it’s dependent on the sun’s angle. Is most cases it is also easily mitigated." www.awea.org/policy-and-issues/project-development/state-and-local-permitting/sound-and-shadowLike all good government, regulations on shadow flicker can be written and enforced. |
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Deleted
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Jun 26, 2024 7:17:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 14:54:50 GMT
This was from 2011 (which is like 100 years ago in renewable energy speed of change) so I can imagine it's gotten even better: "A possible solution is at hand. Vestas Wind Systems, a turbine maker in Randers, Denmark, has developed a predictive system that works out when shadow flicker is about to happen and stops the turbine rotating until the sun moves the shadows onto uninhabited land." www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228346-300-smart-sensors-stop-flickering-wind-turbines/It's up to government regulators to mandate these types of sensors. |
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,037
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Post by used2scrap on Nov 12, 2020 15:34:45 GMT
That would mean the piece of shit republicans would need to acknowledge Biden won. Can’t have it both ways. Wow. “piece of shit Republicans.” I think I’m done for the day... US and other peacekeepers died today, the Corona virus pandemic is raging so bad Drs Without Borders is operating in the US to help with our humanitarian crisis, and right now Donald Trump is tweeting about Fox News ratings and Joe Biden’s gpa, and undermining the electoral process. It indeed seems pretty piece of shit the amount of silent and active support he has behind him. |
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Post by NanaKate on Nov 12, 2020 15:46:14 GMT
Wow. “piece of shit Republicans.” I think I’m done for the day... US and other peacekeepers died today, the Corona virus pandemic is raging so bad Drs Without Borders is operating in the US to help with our humanitarian crisis, and right now Donald Trump is tweeting about Fox News ratings and Joe Biden’s gpa, and undermining the electoral process. It indeed seems pretty piece of shit the amount of silent and active support he has behind him. Well thanks for sharing your opinion. I personally am not one for name calling even when I disagree with the topic being discussed, Republicans, politics in general or whatever. |
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,037
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Post by used2scrap on Nov 12, 2020 15:57:22 GMT
US and other peacekeepers died today, the Corona virus pandemic is raging so bad Drs Without Borders is operating in the US to help with our humanitarian crisis, and right now Donald Trump is tweeting about Fox News ratings and Joe Biden’s gpa, and undermining the electoral process. It indeed seems pretty piece of shit the amount of silent and active support he has behind him. Well thanks for sharing your opinion. I personally am not one for name calling even when I disagree with the topic being discussed, Republicans, politics in general or whatever. And I personally am not one for supporting a President who is for name calling. I’m not sure which one of us that gives the moral high ground? 🤷♀️ And by “or whatever” do you mean dead Americans? |
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Post by NanaKate on Nov 12, 2020 15:58:33 GMT
Well thanks for sharing your opinion. I personally am not one for name calling even when I disagree with the topic being discussed, Republicans, politics in general or whatever. And I personally am not one for supporting a President who is for name calling. I’m not sure which one of us that gives the moral high ground? 🤷♀️ Got it. You have a nice day. |
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Post by hop2 on Nov 12, 2020 16:18:56 GMT
Wouldn't paying for them to learn a new trade be considered socialism by R standards? Totally, but propping up a dying industry with the same tax dollars is totes cool capitalism. 🙄 No that’s exactly not capitalism. Capitalism, total capitalism, is where you live or die as a business or industry by the free market. Corporate welfare is still welfare, it is still altering their precious ‘free market’. I’m not saying supporting certain businesses thru rough times isn’t necessary but then again I’m not asking for complete unregulated capitalism either. But hey, as long as billionaires get their handouts it’ll ‘trickle down right? 😜 How’s that working out fir the laid off people? |
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maryannscraps
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,739
Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
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Post by maryannscraps on Nov 12, 2020 16:25:02 GMT
I am also seen some friends dealing with the 'shadowing' from the windmills. The blades cause a continuous 'blink' of shadow for a fair amount of time each day. It is worse now, as the sun is lower across the sky. Can you imagine a constant blink blink blink of light/shadow. The windmills are not on their land and they get no monetary compensation from them. I can understand their problem, and although wind energy surrounds me, it is not close enough for that issue. I do see the constant blink of red at night though. Off to google this, but, honestly this would drive me insane. I would have to stay indoors with the shades drawn. We all know they injure migrating birds by the thousands yearly. Just for a bit of perspective, www.statista.com/chart/15195/wind-turbines-are-not-killing-fields-for-birds/There are pros and cons to every type of energy used, whether renewable or not. Flicker shadow is very easy to predict and mitigate with wind farms. Years long environmental studies are required for wind farms, and can help reduce many of the problems. There's a wind farm off the coast of Rhode Island that's actually turned into a tourist site! Seriously, you can take a boat tour of it. |
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